Skellymancer blocking

[Wolfedude]

I have recently acquired Trang's set and am in the process of building another skellymancer. My question is how much blocking does a summing necro need? I mean you have a lot of shields in all of those skeletons & the merc & a few revives. You also have pretty good protection from ranged attackers with bone armor and the synergies - a pair of Marrowalks added to 1 pt in bone armor & 5 pts in bone wall has 615 damage absorb.
So what do most of you guys do? Do you put anything into dexterity to add to blocking or do you just leave it alone?

[AnubisXy]

I have recently acquired Trang's set and am in the process of building another skellymancer. My question is how much blocking does a summing necro need? I mean you have a lot of shields in all of those skeletons & the merc & a few revives. You also have pretty good protection from ranged attackers with bone armor and the synergies - a pair of Marrowalks added to 1 pt in bone armor & 5 pts in bone wall has 615 damage absorb.
So what do most of you guys do? Do you put anything into dexterity to add to blocking or do you just leave it alone?

Enough dex to equip items, skellymancers don't need any blocking.

[BtK-radth]

i always max block, but thats just my paranoid ***.

[Spero]

No character needs max blocking, but nearly all the characters I make have max blocking.

For a Necro, you only get 2 life for every point in vitality, so IMO max blocking is more of a bargain than with other characters. Also, it's much more common to be standing still with a Necro, rather than running or attacking. Many other characters are constantly running or attacking, so their blocking is cut to 1/3 much of the time. Not so with a Necro.

[Estrella]

no need for block, with bonearmor and skellies they will never hit you.

[Spero]

no need for block, with bonearmor and skellies they will never hit you.
..and this is why necros never die :uhhuh:

[Flyte]

..and this is why necros never die :uhhuh:

...And max blocking is really supposed to save other classes from that Extra Strong LE Fanat boss pack around the corner. :uhhuh:

[PhatTrumpet]

I was plannin on maxing block with my Summoner because.. where else are you gonna dump stats points? You don't need much str, energy should remain untouched, and vit only gives you 2 life per point invested.

[AnubisXy]

I was plannin on maxing block with my Summoner because.. where else are you gonna dump stats points? You don't need much str, energy should remain untouched, and vit only gives you 2 life per point invested.
pump vitality, those 2 points add up.

[Stimm]

Ive had max block save my a$$ enough times on my skelly mancer to swear by it. With homon i have max and still have over 1250 life with very few charms

[Silkweed]

The Trang shield has 60% block (IIRC) while the Homunculus has 72% block (the same as a Stormshield). A necromancer with Homunculus would have to have 222 dexterity at level 99 to achieve max blocking, which means roughly 200 stat points put into dexterity, leaving 310 for strength and vitality. Figure you want strength at 100, you use 85 points, leaving 220 for vitality, giving you 590 base life before items at level 99. You only get hit a quarter of the time (provided you're standing still), so your life is effectively 1000. Tack on bone armor and that's nearly 1500 effective life.

For a Trang shield user, you would need 262 dexterity for max block, which leaves 270 points to spend on strength and vitality. Figure that's 180 left for vitality, giving you 510 life before items, 890 after block and 1390 after armor.

With base dex, and 100 in strength, you have 420 points in vitality, giving you nearly 1000 base life. With a Homo, you have a 3.6% chance to block, making your effective life 1036, and then bone armor for about 1500 again. With Trang's shield, effective life from block is 3%, so a difference of 6 life, again about 1500 life.

So effectively in terms of getting hit for hitpoints, both maxing block and not maxing block are the same.

However, if you max block, you AREN'T GETTING HIT 3/4 of the time. So when you do come across that Fanatic, Might enchanted, extra fast, extra strong fire enchanted boss pack and one of them hits you for 10 000 damage, without block, it is certain that you are going to die. At least with the block, there's a chance you won't get hit and be able to survive.

Summoners do not get hit often. Maybe occasionally from a stray arrow in a large open place, but if you play cautiously, you will almost never get hit by melee monsters. But sometimes, just sometimes, it happens, and that's why I like to have max block.

One final thing to note for whichever route you do decide to take is this: if you do max block, try not to run around too much since that reduces your blocking to 25%. Stray arrows are easily deflected. If you didn't max block, make sure to always be moving, since there is nothing to protect you aside from bone armor.

[rpgforumsnet]

AnubisXy "pump vitality, those 2 points add up."

I'd say pump all into vita. Ever get hit by those black souls ? Or those hell *****es?

[Silkweed]

All the vitality in the world isn't going to save you from a hit that does more damage than you have life. Blocking will.

[BattleCookie]

My Skellymancer just hit the 90 yesterday and I have to say, that max block saved my life more then once. The best example is the stairs down to Baals Throneroom. If there are some Moonlords waiting for you, its very nice to have max block and not only 300 life more.

Well most player dont use this stairs, they just wait in town, till that sorc opens a save tp and then just stand around a little and cast lower resist from time to time. ;-)

So I would say, if you play yourself in hell, then you need max block.

BC

[sorcees]

All the vitality in the world isn't going to save you from a hit that does more damage than you have life. Blocking will.

Oh it does, and blocking (= lost vit) won't.
As a necro you get hit very seldom, mostly only one hit.
With max block, you won't get hit 3 out of 4 times, but the 4th time you get hit.
Then you should better have as much live as possible, to avoid the 1 hit kill!!!
For all the other occasions you have your full revjs.
So keep your life high and up, alway full red bulb in HELL.

[Blood_And_Iron]

Then you should better have as much live as possible, to avoid the 1 hit kill!!!

That is the one reason you should always max vit when you have a lot of minions.

Magic and elemental attacks will hit a summon necro much more often than physical attacks. I recommend max res and max vit to make your necro live much longer.

No offense but the max block = 4x life argument is bull****.

[STINGER]

I have (3) skellymancers 86, 87, 88 (2) Classic and none have dex! i will NEVER add dex to a Minion based Necro. Attempting to keep up wiht Max block withotu the best items only places you in the path of an early death where the max life keep you out of the early death probabilities.

Of all the characters i have ever made I have one wiht max block and I love that sorc, but it took a lot of investment and she is flat out loaded with my best charms. But the simple fact remains she is potential one hit from death REGARDLESS!

If you have all the gear to get your nice big life and max block then by all means go for it, if you dont then get max vita!

[doubleOObubble]

"giving you 590 base life before items at level 99. You only get hit a quarter of the time (provided you're standing still), so your life is effectively 1000."

Would you like to care to explain that mathematical relation? Also, same "effective" life only matters over TIME, ie, alot of non one-hit kills over time. The arguments could go on forever, only, I think Blood_And_Iron made a pretty good summary with his last sentense.

So: No block for a summoner. Arguing that no amount of life what so ever will save you from this and that is quite wrong because as stated above by alot of people, you will not get hit often, but WHEN you get hit, shield or not, you'll need those extra few hundreds of life.

The shield argument DOES have good grounds for some classes, but absolutetly not for summoner necros. In my opinion.

[Lu The Confused]

man, you guys are missing the main point ...
see, i hate having to look at the old 'Defense' readout hover thingy to see what my block rate is ...
it's much easier to just throw EVERYTHING in vit after you get enough str to wear your gear and never have to worry about dex or blocking again!
heh ... i only have like one HC goobah that blocks ... a pally
even most of my barbs, druids, etc. go shieldless, but i don't play HC to live forever :p
latah,
lu

[Stimm]

Well Wolfedude you asked and you recieved. You recieved some personal preferaances for block / no block as well as some very well thought out reposnses (Silkweed). Ultimately the choice is yours and your style of play. if your the type of guy who takes 5 minutes to clear Eldric then maybe you dont need block. But if you are slightly reckless maybe block isnt a bad idea.

Personally i put more stock in the responses that are more stastical then the " your an idiot if you do this " type of posts that were listed in this as well.

My last necro died to a "Blessed Aim" pack of moon lords which max block doesnt save you from. But in the event something smokes your skellies / merc its nice to have.

[AnubisXy]

I understand your points about why block is good, but with that many minions I just don't think you need it. Any other type of necro I would probably agree.

Speaking of blessed aim, I think it's one of the most underated mercs for a necro. Everyone says might merc, but all the damage in the world doesn't help skellies if they don't hit anything. I use a BA merc for mine, and it's quite nice, besides if you play with friends/pubs etc, everyone and their mother has a might merc so you usually benefit from both auras. This however is a whole other can of worms, sorry for going off topic.

[Stimm]

I understand your points about why block is good, but with that many minions I just don't think you need it. Any other type of necro I would probably agree.

Speaking of blessed aim, I think it's one of the most underated mercs for a necro. Everyone says might merc, but all the damage in the world doesn't help skellies if they don't hit anything. I use a BA merc for mine, and it's quite nice, besides if you play with friends/pubs etc, everyone and their mother has a might merc so you usually benefit from both auras. This however is a whole other can of worms, sorry for going off topic.


I didnt know skellies had an attack rating. It seems like mine hit all the time.

[AnubisXy]

I didnt know skellies had an attack rating. It seems like mine hit all the time.
They do indeed have an attack rating, and hit alot more often with AR enhancing auras/buffs.

[STINGER]

Mine all wear Hsarus and Angelics so no worries!

[Spero]

That is the one reason you should always max vit when you have a lot of minions.

Magic and elemental attacks will hit a summon necro much more often than physical attacks. I recommend max res and max vit to make your necro live much longer.

No offense but the max block = 4x life argument is bull****.
My experiences are very different. When spearcats are throwing at you(archers, etc), max block allows you to recast bone armor must less often. For me, many times it's been the difference between alt-f4 (or using a ton of juves), and getting a drop.

I think 30-50 resists are plenty for a necro.

[moby]

I don't think one has to sacrafice max block or life. My skellemancer has over 1400 life and max block with homoncolus, he's 84 right now. He has some nice stuff but I didn't empty the bank to get him there either.

You just need to wear things that have +dex and +life. He has a pair of waterwalks 15 dex and 55 life, a ravenfrost +19 dex, a rare amy with 19 dex and 49 life, right now he wears an upgraded nightsmoke, I might switch it out for tals belt, another 20 dex........I just wont sacrafice block and life for skills. He still runs around with 11 skellies and 5 mages and some revives, and does just fine.

Another life boasting item that is overlooked is the necro wand carin shard. I love it's bonus to life and mana. A lot of people like arm of king, but in HC I like carin.

-moby

[kurg]

He has some nice stuff but I didn't empty the bank to get him there either.

He has a pair of waterwalks 15 dex and 55 life, a ravenfrost +19 dex, .... I might switch it out for tals belt, another 20 dex........I just wont sacrafice block and life for skills.

the necro wand carin shard.......arm of king

I dont have ANY of those things. I once gambled a godly necro ammy +1 skills, +29 Strength, +15 dex, +30 mana, and 6% fire resist. That is my ONLY great item --- which I don't use because I have a +3 curses +99 life magic ammy I like better. :)

And my +2 necro heads don't have great resists or blocking, even with pdiamonds in them.

So I go all vit, and no blocking.... as with all my HC chars except my conversion pally (who has to block well or he'd die).

[kridebbent]

For characters with lower hit points, blocking is actually less effective. The old argument of "put your points in Dex because you don't get enough HP per point of VIT" doesn't hold water in HC. As other posters have pointed out, the danger to your character in HC is almost entirely from one-hit-kill situations. What's the best way to avoid 1-hit kills? Have a lot of hit points! Not "effective hit points" (which is a misnomer anyway, having 1000 hp and max block does NOT give you 4000 "effective hit points" -- thinking that way WILL get you killed), but actual hit points. Example: A fanatic extra strong fire enchanted quill rat fires a 1000-point quill at you. With 1000 hp and max block you have a 25% chance of instantly buying the farm. With 1300 hp and no block you will always live to drink a juv or alt-F4. To me, this is a no-brainer. The only classes that really need max block over higher life are those that expect to take a lot of melee hits in quick succession.

There's also the fact that in 1.10, physical damage is much less dangerous than elemental damage, and max block won't do squat against FELE bolts, gloams, etc.

Yes, necros only get 2 hit points per point of vitality. That's unfortunate, but it is still much better than nothing! That extra 300-400 hit points can very easily save you from being 1-hit killed.

[Eblocher]

What about making a rhyme out of a two socket necro head with decent skills on it. You get resists, increased blocking, faster blocking, CBF and MF and skills to boot. Poor mans Homun.

I also cast ahead of me with Dim vision as much as possible. Takes alot of the ranged attackers out ofthe equasion. Gloams give me the hebee gebeees. Dim them, wait for a kil or two and CE away!

Call me crazy but I even think Irathas set is great for a mid level summoner. I am of the opinion that elemental damage is the real danger if you play safely.

[AnubisXy]

I agree, elemental damage is the greatest concern. Which is why I keep my resists maxed. Char has 75 accross the board, lvl 30-33 sm/rs depending on equip, approx 1200hp, and around 270mf at lvl 87. I also always keep a BO baba in the game with me.

[PhatTrumpet]

The other side of your first arguement kridebbent is that, in extreme situations, it doesn't matter whether you have 1k life or 1.4k, it could still be a very quick death, one-hit KO or not... quicker than you can juv, Alt+F4, or save/exit. Add in a little unexpected lag and.. well you get the point. With 75% block you have about a 75% chance of surviving these situations, while with no block you have pretty much no chance. Granted these situations don't occur very often, but they do occur, especially with ranged monsters getting the uber beef-up-ification in 1.10.


As for the resists arguement, with most HC players maxed resists are assumed.


I guess all we can say is that it comes down to personal preference and how you like to play the odds. Any serious gamblers care to chime in? :lol:

[Lu The Confused]

hehe ...
even with NO points in dex, you still have a 5% chance, ie, 1 in 20 of him totally missing you anyway :p
latah,
lu

[Wolfedude]

I appreciate all of the advice and differing opinions. I was really asking for advice in relation to the Trang's set rather than skellymancers in general but, I guess, it really doesn't make much difference what equipment you use when you are talking about playing philosophy.
I do have a magic find skellymancer that is level 87 presently. He has maxed resists and about 50% blocking with next to nothing in dexterity from the items he wears alone.
The only change out I make when I am helping others instead of making magic runs is to put on a +2 skills rare amulet which allows me to summon 12 skeletons & 12 mages and I put on Nature's Peace ring; which allows me to have a level 5 oak sage increasing everyone's life by 50%.
Skellymancers are sometimes blamed for lag and slowing the game but no one is more appreciated than he is when a group wants to go for the ancients quest. Properly approached, with all minions gathered, and with town portals placed properly to allow for the best recruitment of the best possible revives a necromancer makes the ancients become a matter of only time, not certainty.
But that is off topic; I think I am gonna stick with no points in dexterity and throw caution to the wind. After all, he is still the safest character in the game to play.

[doubleOObubble]

Yeah, a few things have changed a bit about the "stop lagging us Necro!!!" though. First off, people have better systems now, so on the whole, not that many are effected as before. Secondly, those who still uses their TNT2 card on a PII 333 MHz are getting ashamed because of the aforementioned, so alot more of those hold their peace as well :lol:

[kridebbent]

The other side of your first arguement kridebbent is that, in extreme situations, it doesn't matter whether you have 1k life or 1.4k, it could still be a very quick death, one-hit KO or not... quicker than you can juv, Alt+F4, or save/exit. Add in a little unexpected lag and.. well you get the point. With 75% block you have about a 75% chance of surviving these situations, while with no block you have pretty much no chance. Granted these situations don't occur very often, but they do occur, especially with ranged monsters getting the uber beef-up-ification in 1.10.


As for the resists arguement, with most HC players maxed resists are assumed.


I guess all we can say is that it comes down to personal preference and how you like to play the odds. Any serious gamblers care to chime in? :lol:

Resists didn't have anything to do with my argument, I was assuming maxed resists in either case (max block vs. no max block). What I meant was that more hit points will give you a better chance of survival vs. elemental attacks, whereas max block makes no difference. An argument could be made that it is easier to attain max resists if you're not worried about blocking (you could use Moser's instead of Whitstan's just to take one case), but that gets into what gear you can afford and makes things unnecessarily complicated.

You're right that it is personal preference. I don't think it really makes a tremendous difference either way for a skellymancer. But all else being equal, I personally would go with hit points over blocking for that build.

[Silkweed]

Well, I gave my statistical approach, but here's some anecdotal evidence as well.

My first skellymancer in 1.10 HCL was JF_Sebastian. He had about 100 base strength, 50 base energy (since I had literally no item base and was using CE) and the rest was all put into vitality. I figured I didn't need any dex since my minions would take care of everything.

One day, I was doing some pit runs and a sudden lag spike "gathered" all my minions behind me into one spot just as I turned a corner and got bumrushed by some EF rogues. I never even had the chance to check the mods on them. I jammed the juvies, but that didn't do anything either. I was a hair away from level 75. JF didn't have the best equipment, but it was all decent stuff that I missed quite a bit when he died.

So when I decided to remake him, I went for the max block approach, and so far, it has saved my *** lots of times. At level 87, JF_Sebastian (the second) has 1200 life, either 300 or 400 absorb from armor (can't recall which, but maxed bone wall, and current I'm putting the rest into prison), 10% PDR and max block. He's very safe. His resists are very close to being maxed (since his typical gear includes 250 MF).

I haven't even had any close calls with him. Times I walk into a room in Cata 2 on my way to Andy and there are some fanatic enchanted Tainted monsters, block has saved me from jamming 1234 on my KB. Arrows aren't a problem as most of them are either deflected, or absorbed completely by bone armor. If I get hit by anything, I immediately recast bone armor.

And I FEEL a lot safer knowing that I have max block on top of 1.2k life, PDR, resists and minions. JF is by no means invincible, but he's pretty damned safe, and that's how I like to play.

[Shadoway]

I would be against max-block. To be more game specific, the most dangerous monsters are either burning-souls or certain types of hell temptress(only in hell wsk). They all have always hit attacks. Enough said.

[Silkweed]

Unless, of course, you play as a C/C assassin.

[doubleOObubble]

Silkweed: That's where the "personal preference" plays in :). Not many with a block-less necromancer with his minions behind him would go around a corner without any chance of retreat. So, your personal playing style makes better use of max block than many others. Hence, the many posters who prefers vita>>block! So, there is no "best for all" and you are proving that, but most people's playing style would benefit from vita more than block on a summoner, that's all.

Bone shield maxed gives an enorm relief too. It's sad it doesn't work for elemental attacks :(

[sawse]

What I meant was that more hit points will give you a better chance of survival vs. elemental attacks, whereas max block makes no difference.



I am of like mind on this. That's why my new hardcore skellie-mancer is going with base dex, base mana, a little strength for gear, and all other points to vitality. Elemental attacks are ranged, so they can go by your gaggle of minions, and since they can't be blocked a low life is very risky. At least for physical dammage you can compensate with a recasting a high level bone armor.

When someone above mentioned black souls in hell wsk I smiled. Whenever I make a new character there are several situations that I think about. I say to myself: "how will little Sawse_NewChar handle xxxxxxxxx. When I got to gloams and unique+minion packs of black souls I had cause for pause. What kills my other softcore summoner? Even played with agression, where I teleport into crowds then walk (not run) backwards to watch the battle he almost never dies. My best estimate is once every 50 hours of game time dispite my reclessness. So how does he die,... or what almost kills him. What comes close, what could have. If minions are kept in patrole formation then any melee threat will be detained by security. Missiles fly right by often. And peircing missiles ALWAYS fly right by. Consider not just black soul lightning, but those snake bone spears as well. They cannot be blocked, they pierce, and do unresistable magic dammage. The witches also cast unblockable unresistable missiles as well. These are some reasons why I am not investing in blocking.

[Pinoy]

Hey Wolf,

Necros are all I play now on 1.1. And here are my experiences.

My lvl87 (RIP) completed hell solo at lvl81 hell ancient and all with max block.
Maxed block comes in handy at act5. I highly recomend it.
This built is by Nightfish. Great built. Thx.
Excellent Overall MFer in all act.



He only have 700+ hp with charms and +life with lvl10 bone armor.

It's not a crucial to have it since you have alot of meat shield. But it really helps alot in act5 overall.

Now I currently have lvl83 with 800hp with 50+ blocking and have some problem with range attackers. But I'm working on it.

If you decided to not go with max block... I recommend having maxed all resist and obsorbs. Especially lite. (tgod maybe) it solved my problem with gloams. Im still poor.

[doubleOObubble]

"If you decided to not go with max block... I recommend having maxed all resist and obsorbs. Especially lite. (tgod maybe) it solved my problem with gloams. Im still poor."

Now that's a strange sentense, as block has gives no relief from Gloams... Oh well, just noticing :)