View Full Version : Why dont ppl stay and fight?
It was stated in another thread that only 5% of all ppl stay in a game after being hostiled and everyone were just chicken and this wasnt the case in 1.08.
Well first one must compare 1.08 Classic to 1.09 and later.
In Classic even the best equiped dueler can die to the average equiped PvM or Dueler as there are or were not any such thing as damage jewels, big PDR, absorb, damage charms, life charms...etc. PKs/Duelers of that time and in Classic do not apply damage to one hit kill a character of equal level and definetly cant do it 20-30 lvls lower without having basically no life.
In Classic groups would fight back and so would individuals that feel they have a chance. When you know your barb is using a say 230 Mart, by far not perfect, 800 Ornate, have good AR where the attacking player might have a 270-300 Mart 900 ornate, bonus life bigger AR and probably extra strength for damage you still have a chance to kill and or survive. Sure the Pk may do 1700 WW damage but you do 1200 and yes you are at a disadvantage, but not a mouse to a Lion disadvantage as it is in xpac.
In Xpac lvl 24 characters can apply so much damage as to kill at least 50-75% or every PVP build possibly up to lvl 80+ because there are all those max damage items, PDR, charms for life and damage...etc.
When somoene hostiles, you have no idea what that guy is using and if you are say lvl 75 and some other lvl 75 hostiles you where do you actually think you stand against this guy? PvP vs PvM damage comparison is impossible for most people as I doubt very many PvM players have 160/60 Armor let alone all the potential charms this PvP might have boosting all life, damage and more.
With all this said, how in the hell does a PK expect you to stand and fight? If a person has even the slightest idea of the potential damage of a given PK they wont stay and fight unless they are prepared for that fight.
Who stays? The ones that stay are simply those that dont care if they die and just want to go at ya for the hell of it, the ones that are prepared for the PK, possibly a PKK build, or the poor guy that just doesnt have the slightest idea of the possiblities a given character can deliver in damage with the right gear.
So when you bloil this all down, when you step out to PK you kill either those that dont care, those that dont know who you all call noobs, or the occasional PvP build that was out there actually waiting for you to hostile!
People that leave the game when you hostile arent weak pussy's they are educated/expierenced people using thier best judgement, otherwise know as SMART, and dont care to die today to you when they know they stand no chance against you.
So now lets "boil this down again" What ears do PKs get? They get other PvP ears that happen to be there and choose to fight, basically a "forced duel" since they elect to fight back, or a "noob ear", and occasionally a nut case or two that just dont care if they die today!
it is so funny how Pks whine about everyone leaving and being chicken when they themsleve know damn good and well that there is basically no strict PvM build that can stand a chance. I personally find the only chicken here is the guy that is loaded for Bear hunting butterflies!
Stingers rant of the week brought to you by Stinger, where his motto is "Treat people as you wish to be treated, or as they deserve"!
Now back to your regularly schedueled program, please read the sig as it is sooooo true!
hc_ugajeremy
25-02-2004, 16:35
I saw a funny setup yesterday. Just milling around in pubs doing the occasional baal run and helping out in low level games. This naked zon comes in, followed by an 89 decked out zon... first words the low level zon says "BLOOD MOOR NOW" and hostiles everyone.
Yeah, to not see what would happen next is bad. So where would the fun of dueling come into if you went out to see what the zon was about, only to get popped by someone 30 levels higher.. ? I did get a good laugh about it though, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.
lasthero
25-02-2004, 17:22
Let me be the first to say that not every pk'er out there calls whoever leaves a pussy, once again im sure this has been oversaid there are a few honorable pkers left out there. That being said 95% of the of the pkers out there are not.
Let me also tell you that there are a few lamer pkers out there that relatively are not well equiped, as an example the chargeadin , some really jsut go to lvl 24 throw on a bonesnap and try to pk and although can deal quite some dmg they are obviously not well equiped enough to actaully take some blows, now that being said if you have arond 400 life and decent block 60%? you will actually stand a decent chance to stand up against this charagedin and since he does not have a shield hes easy kill if possibly a ts sin is in the game. And I for one have seen a group of atleast 4 people stand up to fight me, although I am better equipped than the chargeadin i just gave an example of, the sheer idea that people will stand up to fight for me surprised me although i got 2 ears, the two that i killed i gave items in the end for being so brave :).
So really what im trying to say is, yes it is impossible to fight a really twinked up pker, but im telling you what i see in duels and sewers games alot of the pkers maybe 40% (whihc is a lot if you ask me), are not well equiped for the task of pking i mean even in dueling games when i ask to see someones gear they show me rare swor dand magic armor they are wearing??? heh well good luck for you pvmers out there.
terrymanning
25-02-2004, 17:25
Disclaimer: I am in no way condemning PKs or PK-ing, chicken users or anyone else in my response. :lol:
I think what the other poster, who claimed only 5% stayed, meant was that 95% left because of chicken hack. I would have to say that while 95% is overstating a bit, 60% is closer to the mark.
But you are completely right about who stays in a game after being hostiled. If I had not found this forum I would have no idea how damage a lower level character could do. The “average” B-net player probably doesn’t have any idea either. Those who have been PK-ed know that they can be killed easily, but probably don’t really understand what a fully charged level 9 assassin can do. I read every PvP oriented thread just so I can understand what a PK will be doing to try and get my ear. Not everyone on B.net does this and that’s why they probably sit in shock when a lvl 9-21 character kills their level 4x character.
On the flip side it isn’t hard to figure out how a level 3x pally kills their level 9-20 character. But I doubt they can guess just how much damage the Bonesnap charger is doing.
TM
iock=beeef, just incase anyone didn't know
But you never know if its the simple Bsnapper life gear or the prfect Snapper max gear max charms loaded. With one you may have a chance with the other you dont unless you are built for it.
Blood_And_Iron
25-02-2004, 17:36
Let me be the first to say that not every pk'er out there calls whoever leaves a pussy, once again im sure this has been oversaid there are a few honorable pkers left out there. That being said 95% of the of the pkers out there are not.
Let me also tell you that there are a few lamer pkers out there that relatively are not well equiped, as an example the chargeadin , some really jsut go to lvl 24 throw on a bonesnap and try to pk and although can deal quite some dmg they are obviously not well equiped enough to actaully take some blows, now that being said if you have arond 400 life and decent block 60%? you will actually stand a decent chance to stand up against this charagedin and since he does not have a shield hes easy kill if possibly a ts sin is in the game. And I for one have seen a group of atleast 4 people stand up to fight me, although I am better equipped than the chargeadin i just gave an example of, the sheer idea that people will stand up to fight for me surprised me although i got 2 ears, the two that i killed i gave items in the end for being so brave :).
So really what im trying to say is, yes it is impossible to fight a really twinked up pker, but im telling you what i see in duels and sewers games alot of the pkers maybe 40% (whihc is a lot if you ask me), are not well equiped for the task of pking i mean even in dueling games when i ask to see someones gear they show me rare swor dand magic armor they are wearing??? heh well good luck for you pvmers out there.
Oooo look I'm so "honorable" that I would hostile you when I do 10x the damage and have 2x++ the life.
So what "400 life and 60% block?" When 4 people try to whittle you down with their little pvm weapons and you can one-hit-kill, it's so thrilling. Those who are stupid enough to stay die, as in your example.
No one cares how well equiped the pk is. The entire argument is irrelevant.
lasthero
25-02-2004, 17:45
Blood_and_Iron - well not really as the argument or what i thoguht the argument stinger was trying to present was that pvm'ers basically have no chance of fighting back. And as a rebuttle I've stated that yes infact the PvM'ers do have a chance, not many of battle net people out there are equipped to fight, put it this way I've hostiled with my lvl 11 asn pvm'er in a sewers game 6 of the 8 people left the two that stayed took the chance that i could be a well decked out pker but they stayed and fought me and thus my ear was loss for that. But thats all Im trying to say that you do stand a chance against a lot of the pking population out there.
And as for the honorable pk'ers they usually hunt people greater than their level, dont get me started on what separates the two camps of pkers cause there is a big difference you could do a search in the forums if you really want to know the difference. im sure people have posted many times on that subject.
I liked your post, Stinger. A little different way of stating things than I've heard before. Since 1.10, I've seen fewer people chicken or leave immediately on hostile. If the games I've been in are representative, only about 20% of people leave immediately on hostile.
I personally haven't seen a trigger death, so I tend to stay in the game when the characters are all within 10 levels or so of me.
However, when I see red on my mini map, I'm outta there! :lol:
HelzCaretaker
25-02-2004, 18:34
here's the thing, if I go pking I usually like to pk people higher then me when there are several in a group which gives me a lot more targets. My builds aren't the lame 1 hit maxed out charger, I have been pking with my ts assn. So basically a large group that new what they were doing could stand and fight me off. But I don't expect them to, I know I wouldn't while lvling mainly b/c I solo and just ignore pkers and keep on lvling. Now here's the thing with an honorable pker, most of the pvmers ask to be pk'd, thats right they ask for it. I posted like a week ago the best defense against pkers and 99% of b-net violate it.
so here goes 1st off the chickeners/mhers they hack they deserve to die enough said. Any1 that scans my gear b4 I go pk or even after I hostile should instantly step out and fight, they have an advantage over me since I am legit and should accept that fact and then fight not whine and cry about how my gear is better, coming from the mouth of a cheater thats just pathetic.
2nd off trash talking to a pker is asking to be killed. Simply put when the 1st insult leaves your mouth its an invitation saying I am an immature little pos that needs to be killed a few times and be taught a lesson. Basically people trash talk and don't back it up even challenge me to a fight after I go to pk then sit in town and talk some more and some more, well you get the picture. Best defense a pker is to simply shut your mouth and continue lvling in a different area, find a new game, or just wait the pker out, talking smack gets you into trouble.
3rdly there are pkers out there that talk #$%^ all they can. Generally these are the same type of people as the pvmers that talk non-stop and trust me these are probably the majority of the pkers as well as the pvmers. These guys are the ones that constantly spam pwn and noob when they won't fight another dueler, oh this guy is just a pker not a dueler, doesn't matter that I use carnage jewels and you use wraths and I am a cheesy charger. Also what pisses me off the most is the high lvl pker that uses mh so when another high lvl comes in they instantly go mh me and then go no I'm not fighting a FoH pally or a trapsin or some1 as good as you.
Basically any honorable pker can be beaten by a group of good pvmers, on the other hand most newb pkers are out of the lvl range using way better gear and cop out from any fight, looks like its time to make some more mh duelers.
ZeonZaku
25-02-2004, 18:41
It is easy to find another sewer/arcane/canyon/baal (Insert run here)
It is hard to rebuild a character and items lost.
I think of it this way. Someone has hostile me by knowing two possibly three things.
1. What my class is
2. What my lvl is
3. If they saw me. They could potentially know my build or some of my gear.
I know that I am not foolish enough to assume anything about people I see in the game. Experience can become another sense, but it is just not worth it. I personally GTFO when I see the hostile. No amount of satisfaction of a kill would quench the loss of a good char and items. I just can't justify it.
HelzCaretaker
25-02-2004, 18:48
one thing about fighting a pvp character is several good 1.10 pvmers with snergies can really mess up some1 10-15 lvls below you. Most people don't realize that in the least bit. A decent group of 4 lets say bo barb, windy druid, trapsin and an orb/fireball sorc could easily tear up a ww barb or charger its just that non pvp people don't realize how strong their builds are and how frail the pkers build is. At high lvls it is generally different but then again I only pk norm so thats my slant on things. Now if the guy is 20+ lvls and there are 4 of you I'd say screw it ng time. Also pkers can be really messed up if they pk baal runs for instance when a good group can set an ambush at the stairs, which I've done alone b4 with pvp builds against a pker. Imagine a chargedin coming down into 5 2k dmg traps a 500 dmg windy druid and an orb/fireball sorc instanty frying of the paladin. High lvls are not worth it since there is a lot less cheating going on low lvl but high lvl every pker is probably running around with ber'd stuff, enigmas, hoto, eth botd etc so its not worth it by any means to fight high lvls.
ConnerMacleod
25-02-2004, 19:00
I totally agree, those evil PKers are way overpowered in XPac. Especially in this patch when you can tag-PK. A Clvl 45 Sorc with Slvl 40 Enchant tag teaming with a Concentrate Maxed Damage Barb utilizing an Ethereal near perfect upgraded Bonesnap War Club will take you down in one hit. Anyone who sticks around for that battle is kidding, unless they are a Necromancer with more skills than Amp.
Point is, every class can be outdone with another competing class. If you can get the party to help, you can battle a PK with ease. Problem is people are not going to do it.
So the reason people don't stay and fight is because they either lack the duelling skills or think they are no match for the person PKing. Part of fighting is psyching people out. That's in the real world and on Bnet. The hype is many times more than the reality. So when a PK is chasing you, after spamming you into oblivion, your reflex is to run. That's when they have you, because it's not best to run and fight again another day. Most of us that PK have massive amounts of faster run/walk and just have to catch up to you. Many PKs are also built with less than perfect gear because there is usually no looting going on. So STAY AND FIGHT! The bark is worse than the bite... unless it's Mr. Beeef.
Funny story - I was leveling my character in Norm Baal runs, and someone hostiles. Me and another character agree to team up on them when they get to the throne. I immediately go for the throat (and I was in crap gear for some reason) and the other guy decides to flux without taking one swing. I potted twice, but then realized that I was considering rebuilding that character anyhow because I didn't like it's development, and ended up giving the PK my ear. I needed to see where I went wrong with that character anyhow, so that was the perfect test. Sure I lost some max damage charms, but I have a mule of the things anyhow, and it was fun for me.
Basically any honorable pker can be beaten by a group of good pvmers
You've just stated an impossible situation.
First, probably only 1 out of 20 pk's is an 'honorable' pk, who doesn't use MH, trigger of some sort (at least one type still exists), waypoint exploit, typing insults, etc.
Secondly, any group of 'good' pvmers is going to leave for the reasons stated in the first post by stinger. They don't use MH (by definition of being 'good'), so they HAVE to assume that the PK is using 1-hit kill uber gear, maphack, etc. So they leave. So there is no 'group' of 'good' pvmers to face the 1-in-20 chance of an 'honorable' pk.
Even if we could assume that 1-in-20 groups of 'good' pvmers would stay, and all pvmers are 'good' (clearly not true), then thats a 1-in-400 chance of a group of good pvm'ers taking on an honorable pker. Now I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the 1-in-400 chance of baal in my NEXT game dropping my titans revenge, than the 1-in-400 chance of fighting a pk'er with half-a-chance of winning, when I could care less about getting his ear.
Lastly, I consider myself to be a 'good' pvm'er who mainly sticks to non-uber builds. So with that in mind, even if I were in a group of good players, if we were all built like me, then we would STILL not stand a chance.
If you say that a group of good pvm'ers who stick to cookie cutter uber builds can take on a pvp'er then perhaps you're right. But for both sides to be legit and honorable is simply not going to happen statistically. Well, not any more likely than a zod dropping for me anyway.
HelzCaretaker
25-02-2004, 20:03
1st off you can easily check to see whether the person pking is honorable or not by checking the lvls in the game and knowing where the party is. If you're doing arcane runs and there are 4 20's a 22 and like a 15 if the 20+'s are in arcane and the 15 hostiles then a decent not a great party should be able to fight the pker off. Most of the time an honorable pker is a hunter that enjoys the chase more then the kill. Knowing your possible opponents and terrain is easy enough to do and allows for the hunted to be at a good advantage. You can easily check to see if there is pk potention w/out mh b4 doing runs. A pre carnaged build pking in arcanes shouldn't be too threatening with a decent group. Lets say you have a mix of 4 lvl 20's a barb druid and 2 sorc's for example. Most likely the druid will have decent oak lets say adds 70% more life. Ok so what that means the 200 life characters now have 340. Well an honorable pker isn't going to be the best at 1 hitting people lack of carnage jewels ensures that. So the druid/barb can tank, 1 sorc will most likely be fireball which will be somehwere around 200 dmg and lets say the other is ice. If the pker doesn't have decent resists and cbf (most have horrible resists) then the pker will most likely be equal to the party.
Most of the time that people will stand and fight a pker is if they are pvp'ers lvling pvm characters. Like Conner said most of it is psyching out your opponent, I can say from my pking experiences that 90% of people I nail are in a group and the group either fluxes when I hostile or tp's or simply they continue to lvl and stay until I appear on minimap where they go to town and 1 person doesn't pay attention and bam dead. I've personally managed to solo beat pkers that are honorable with like 8 max wraths and ruby gear that I was lvling in.
Also whats so bad about losing a lvl 20 guy that takes what 1.5 hours at most to remake?
Chiller_babe
25-02-2004, 20:15
Point is, every class can be outdone with another competing class. If you can get the party to help, you can battle a PK with ease. Problem is people are not going to do it.
So the reason people don't stay and fight is because they either lack the duelling skills or think they are no match for the person PKing. Part of fighting is psyching people out. That's in the real world and on Bnet. The hype is many times more than the reality. So when a PK is chasing you, after spamming you into oblivion, your reflex is to run. That's when they have you, because it's not best to run and fight again another day. Most of us that PK have massive amounts of faster run/walk and just have to catch up to you. Many PKs are also built with less than perfect gear because there is usually no looting going on. So STAY AND FIGHT! The bark is worse than the bite... unless it's Mr. Beeef.
I couldn't agree more - but it does depend on what Character you are building at the time.
If I'm part way through building a crushing blow werewolf or telenecro and am extremely decently kitted out (2 of my fave characs so quite common for me:)) I will more than likely stay and fight. you often find that if you manage to land 1 blow on a pk they chicken - and that feels good!
If I'm experimenting with an inferno sorc or Medic there is no way I will be there for more than a second after the hostile goes - I'm not going to win any ears or medals for sheer stupidity - so yes stay and fight, but only if you have an inkling of what pk/dueling is about, otherwise leave and don't waste the time you've spent building your charac to give a PK an easy ear
Chill
PvP, PvM... Call me a noob but why doesnt everyone build for PvP? I am not talking about mfing here, I am talking about questing. Dueling is about the most exciting aspect of the game, at least for seasoned players. I compare it to doing hell poorly equiped in terms of adrenalin flow.
I mean, if you can kick the crap out of another class, think what you can do to monsters. What do you think?
Some of you are not seeing the whole picture here. What do you consider the average AR of a lvl 15-20 PvM character? Do they have on Deaths, Hsarus, Angelics....possibly but doubtfull they have enuff to mess with Max block 4 soc Goth/Ornate possibly ETH.
Then what skills/weapon? Excluding sorcs odds are they have a lvl one skill going against someone with mased for thier lvl skill. You expect them to fight? even if a PK had the worst gear you average PvM cant kill him simply due to damage they deliver. Most PvM are taking 2-5 hits to kil monsters in Act 2 and they dont have near the life a PvP has and there is no penalty in PvM and thier AC is much lower in most cases.
Sure 7 ppl could turn on a PK and win, maybe kill but who will die trying? Who leads the charge? Who wont do squat but watch and maybe cheer?
I could PK in the sewers at lvl 15 wiht Classic gear.....dont need Max damaage gear to do it. Sure i wont get near the numbers of ears but I will still kill. Pking in the seweers and arcain is basically takeing Xpac gear to Classic and Pking. They are wearing Classic gear you are wearing jewels and ETHs and they arent in most cases.
PvP, PvM... Call me a noob but why doesnt everyone build for PvP? I am not talking about mfing here, I am talking about questing. Dueling is about the most exciting aspect of the game, at least for seasoned players. I compare it to doing hell poorly equiped in terms of adrenalin flow.
I mean, if you can kick the crap out of another class, think what you can do to monsters. What do you think?
Come now......who in thier right mind except a few builds is going to max a lvl 1 skill? Slap on all max gear and charms and no resists and run around in many places?
2nd off trash talking to a pker is asking to be killed. Simply put when the 1st insult leaves your mouth its an invitation saying I am an immature little pos that needs to be killed a few times and be taught a lesson. Basically people trash talk and don't back it up even challenge me to a fight after I go to pk then sit in town and talk some more and some more, well you get the picture. Best defense a pker is to simply shut your mouth and continue lvling in a different area, find a new game, or just wait the pker out, talking smack gets you into trouble.
It's an invitation to be killed? The reason these people are "trash talking", or as I like to call it venting, is because you hostiled them. So its not an invitation seeing as you were going to kill them anyways, now is it? Pking, although a valid part of the game, is an anti-social act towards a player and you are shocked that you receive a less than pleasant response?
I used to loathe pks, and now over time and from getting to know some of the decent ones I don't really have an issue with it. Cheese pks only annoy me at the most these days, but I pretty much ignore them. There is only one type of pk that I can't stand these days, even more than the cheaters, and its the type that thinks that people shouldn't mouth off to them. WTF? You hostile someone and you expect a freakin hallmark card for it? Or maybe you think a fruitbasket is more appropriate. You expect that people aren't going to tear you a new one verbally? Get over yourself. If your potential ears are supposed to take their lumps if they can't avoid you then perhaps you should learn to take your lumps, which in this case are verbal.
Btw great post stinger. :thumbsup:
I'm with the lime green Baalos. If something rocks pvp, why can't it also rock, but harder in pvm? It is important to rock. And to have another PK thread; never too many of these.
Well Stinger, not all pks max one skill level. I'm talking about equipment and charms. But even we we go back to skills, look what the possibilities are. Suppose I am playing a sorc that maxs fire ball and has maxed TS as a back up. One point in teleport and I have a decent sorc pker and one pretty good quester too.
This logic could go with any build. Now, you make a point if you are discussing lld, and perhaps you are as I don't remember your whole post.
OT hehe mac, the reason I post in lime is if I have had too many adult beverages, I usually forget to add that feature. Its a quailty check and a CYA for me in the event zappa says I posted something in an un-politically correct fashion, which I have done from time to time *cough* cavedog *cough*
Cleglaw_Himself
25-02-2004, 23:48
Stinger, your first post is valid.
That's the reason I stopped trying to pk long ago.
I only build duelers exclusively now, as it is very sad lopping off ppl's ears that did not really have a chance.
However, I find these days that so many duelers are using chicken, even ones with 900 life. This irks me, especially when they call me noob for drinking a juv...
If your tired of Pkers. Build a PKK. Then you have the advantage. 95% of all PKers dont expect you to be built to kill them. Funny to see them run when they hit you and only put a minor dent in your 800+ life, and run even faster when you hit them and it takes half of their life bulb.
I dont really care for PvP, but I dislike bullies very much.
If your tired of Pkers. Build a PKK. Then you have the advantage. 95% of all PKers dont expect you to be built to kill them. Funny to see them run when they hit you and only put a minor dent in your 800+ life, and run even faster when you hit them and it takes half of their life bulb.
I dont really care for PvP, but I dislike bullies very much.
im with corndog on this 1. pkk is great i love seeing a lvl 30+ pker in sewers go down when they thought they would get some ears, but majority use chicken so its quite hard.
I built a PKK or two in Classic and I got an ear or two and I never once hostiled anyone. I dont even hostile when I duel, I leave it to thiem to pick the fight.
I dont know how many PKs i went against, not very many comparably but I should of killed most of them except chicken hack.
This game is full of lamers, those that dont really risk squat and expect you to accept them as part of the game, and treat them as a good guy when all they want to do is erase you and get a trophy.
Once upon a time ole Toli had a post about his PKing exp where someone or more spent hours if not days msgin him wiht foul text due to PK attept or success. Now taht guy went over board for sure, but Toli took major offense to it and i had the same msg as sohcan where it was"what do you expect" and the discussion really went nowhere.
Toli has to be one o fthe best posters around here and always posts with good logic and I expecte him to understand taht but he has gone to the darkside. On the darkside they shut out what they use to beleive and forget they were once on the other side and didnt like PKs.
The funniest thing I recall from a PKK deal was some guy was using this lvl 24 leaper in the sewers......well, he hostiled my lvl 29 future WW barb a couple of times and almsot got to Bird so I got out my thrower lvl 28 and found him, went out into my choosen spot and partied so he could find me. He hostiled and came. I set myself up to where there was only one way he could come to me and that was straight at me. Needless to say he went down fast I got his ear and I left.
A few days later i run into him and he is *****ing and screaming that I killed his guy calling me every name in the book.........now, this isnt the picture of every PK but it is the one most people see. At a guess I see these guys 19 out of 20 times! Every once in a blue moon some PK will come in, hostile, hunt, come to town and see everyone is in town and leave. Kudos, I respect that and I can live with that. Calling me a noob, or weak because I wont fight you just shows you are a waste of my oxygen!
Any Pk that expects consideration and kindness is unbeleavably blind, wake up and smell the coffee!
Bottom line - If youre gonna pk, do it with class. If you die, laugh and congratulate the victor. If you win, be cool about it and maybe give them a consolation prize. Every time I have done this, the name calling stopped and was replaced with "wow that sux you killed me but youre cool anyway" comments. Try it.
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:13
1st off you can easily check to see whether the person pking is honorable or not by checking the lvls in the game and knowing where the party is. If you're doing arcane runs and there are 4 20's a 22 and like a 15 if the 20+'s are in arcane and the 15 hostiles then a decent not a great party should be able to fight the pker off. Most of the time an honorable pker is a hunter that enjoys the chase more then the kill. Knowing your possible opponents and terrain is easy enough to do and allows for the hunted to be at a good advantage. You can easily check to see if there is pk potention w/out mh b4 doing runs. A pre carnaged build pking in arcanes shouldn't be too threatening with a decent group. Lets say you have a mix of 4 lvl 20's a barb druid and 2 sorc's for example. Most likely the druid will have decent oak lets say adds 70% more life. Ok so what that means the 200 life characters now have 340. Well an honorable pker isn't going to be the best at 1 hitting people lack of carnage jewels ensures that. So the druid/barb can tank, 1 sorc will most likely be fireball which will be somehwere around 200 dmg and lets say the other is ice. If the pker doesn't have decent resists and cbf (most have horrible resists) then the pker will most likely be equal to the party.
Most of the time that people will stand and fight a pker is if they are pvp'ers lvling pvm characters. Like Conner said most of it is psyching out your opponent, I can say from my pking experiences that 90% of people I nail are in a group and the group either fluxes when I hostile or tp's or simply they continue to lvl and stay until I appear on minimap where they go to town and 1 person doesn't pay attention and bam dead. I've personally managed to solo beat pkers that are honorable with like 8 max wraths and ruby gear that I was lvling in.
Also whats so bad about losing a lvl 20 guy that takes what 1.5 hours at most to remake?
As been said, "who leads the charge?"
Lol 340 life. You really don't know how to pk? 200 damage fireball takes at least a dozen hits to kill, by then how many would be dead?
What is the point of your second to last paragraph? Why does that seem to support the idea that staying after being hostiled is stupid? You say yourself you pick off stragglers when they're not paying attention.
You level in max and ruby gear? Who else does that? You have mana leech, life leech, resistance? You tank those LE beetles decked out in your 4 socket eth armor? You have a stash full of rejuv's that you use everytime a monster hits you?
You don't mind losing lvl 20's? Make more of them and keep fighting those decked out pk's. Keep doing it cause a dozen characters only cost you a full day's work. Heck make another one right now so you can see him die horribly. I'm sure you've got infinite 1.5 hour segments of your life lying everywhere. Most people don't.
lasthero
26-02-2004, 01:13
i agree with baalos it works, I just lost my 18 pally(outcast_jedi) who had about a stash full of ears and was pretty much undefeated so far in duels, but i believe i aimed too high for the stars this time and chose to hunt 2 lvl 47 sorcs and 52 trapsin heh, well all i did was laugh it off and congradulated them they rid the sewrs and trav of 1 pker. And for the actually nice people that ive killed countless times ive given them items to start back up again. All in all i dont think pkers are gonna leave until this game dies out.
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:15
PvP, PvM... Call me a noob but why doesnt everyone build for PvP? I am not talking about mfing here, I am talking about questing. Dueling is about the most exciting aspect of the game, at least for seasoned players. I compare it to doing hell poorly equiped in terms of adrenalin flow.
I mean, if you can kick the crap out of another class, think what you can do to monsters. What do you think?
Do you level in your ethereal armor and bonesnap, too?
Please make it through hell with your best lld gear. I'll pay to see it.
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:21
Bottom line - If youre gonna pk, do it with class. If you die, laugh and congratulate the victor. If you win, be cool about it and maybe give them a consolation prize. Every time I have done this, the name calling stopped and was replaced with "wow that sux you killed me but youre cool anyway" comments. Try it.
Well there are always chumps out there, what can I say.
If you kill my character on whom I just spend my last 2 hours or 2 weeks building, I'd like to catch you in real life and do to you real slowly a lot more than cutting off your ear. Thank you for wasting my time and ruining my day.
"wow it sux but you're cool anyway," let me bring my other characters for you to kill so you can show me how much more cooler you can be.
Since there's nothing I can do about the pk game feature I have to chuck it up to my own mistake for being caught, which really doesn't happen anymore. But pks are still a nuisance and ruins the experience every now and then.
Let me kick you real hard in the balls. Does it feel good? Am I cool?
HR-Tecira
26-02-2004, 01:21
And a word to the wise don't try to pkk when very tired :p. I was leveling a char up in a game and just hit 9 when a lvl 26 pally decided to hostile. So I switched to my only completed low lvl char an 18 blade sin and enchanted her (now even with enchant the blades only do about 1.8 k pvm so when you factor in fire resist and the pvp penalty it is pretty low damage for a lvl 18 pk/dueler so I feel that that is an ok build to use enchant on). I have dueled a lvl 26 kick sin pk and a lvl 26 chargadin pk with her before and actually caused them to flux just do to the speed I can hit with.
So I was expecting to chase away the pk again. Not expecting a kill since my damage is not really good enough to take out another pvp built char. Thing was I did not recheck the party menu so did not know that a lvl 76 werewolf had joined the game. The pally and the wolf hostiled me at about the same time while I was enchanting. Only noticed the pally hostile. I went out to attempt to chase of the pally and got blindsided by the werewolf. Managed to survive and juve vs 3 of his attacks but died to the fourth. Did basically no damage to him. After the death I checked who was in the game with my looter to get some idea of what truck ran over me.
So the moral is if pkking make sure you know what you are fighting ;). Lamest thing about that guy was what happened after my death. Someone else brought in a 4x barb to fight the wolf and that is when it became quite clear that he was using chicken. I mean it is bad enough to take on an 18 with a 76 but to use chicken while doing so ^^. From now on I will make sure I am awake before I step out hehe.
wow I can really feel the love, thx.Well there are always chumps out there, what can I say.
If you kill my character on whom I just spend my last 2 hours or 2 weeks building, I'd like to catch you in real life and do to you real slowly a lot more than cutting off your ear. Thank you for wasting my time and ruining my day.
"wow it sux but you're cool anyway," let me bring my other characters for you to kill so you can show me how much more cooler you can be.
Since there's nothing I can do about the pk game feature I have to chuck it up to my own mistake for being caught, which really doesn't happen anymore. But pks are still a nuisance and ruins the experience every now and then.
Let me kick you real hard in the balls. Does it feel good? Am I cool?
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:33
And a word to the wise don't try to pkk when very tired :p. I was leveling a char up in a game and just hit 9 when a lvl 26 pally decided to hostile. So I switched to my only completed low lvl char an 18 blade sin and enchanted her (now even with enchant the blades only do about 1.8 k pvm so when you factor in fire resist and the pvp penalty it is pretty low damage for a lvl 18 pk/dueler so I feel that that is an ok build to use enchant on). I have dueled a lvl 26 kick sin pk and a lvl 26 chargadin pk with her before and actually caused them to flux just do to the speed I can hit with.
So I was expecting to chase away the pk again. Not expecting a kill since my damage is not really good enough to take out another pvp built char. Thing was I did not recheck the party menu so did not know that a lvl 76 werewolf had joined the game. The pally and the wolf hostiled me at about the same time while I was enchanting. Only noticed the pally hostile. I went out to attempt to chase of the pally and got blindsided by the werewolf. Managed to survive and juve vs 3 of his attacks but died to the fourth. Did basically no damage to him. After the death I checked who was in the game with my looter to get some idea of what truck ran over me.
So the moral is if pkking make sure you know what you are fighting ;). Lamest thing about that guy was what happened after my death. Someone else brought in a 4x barb to fight the wolf and that is when it became quite clear that he was using chicken. I mean it is bad enough to take on an 18 with a 76 but to use chicken while doing so ^^. From now on I will make sure I am awake before I step out hehe.
First of all, sorry about your mistake.
Second of all, that's really honorable of the pks. I mean hats off.
Third of all, that's the perfect example for my point that it's stupid to fight a pk. Yes a mistake was made here, but the usual pvm build against the possible pvp build might as well be a lvl 18 assassin vs. lvl 76 werewolf.
Some of you like pk. Some of you learned to live with it. I don't like it and I'd rather live without it. In my opinion, all pks are scum, no honor and no glory. Deserve to die many more times than once. If you want pvp go duel. It's so honorable and exciting to beat up on pvm builds. I have refrained from up front insults so far in this thread so I'll stop there.
For those of you who advocate staying and fighting with your pvm builds, hey it's your character and your time. I just have to say most of the time you get exactly what you can expect.
Let me kick you real hard in the balls. Does it feel good? Am I cool?
You would have been except for the part where you told lime guy Baalos that if he killed one of your pixelated thingies you'd feel like inflicting harm on a real person. That pretty much makes you lame.
Baalos is one of the nicest cats on Bnet. Just because you lose a character doesn't mean you need to punch a hole in your wall or threaten. Besides, your mom will make you clean up the mess.
Thank you for a hilarious post that reminds me why I love this game.
Edit: Happy belated birthday, Tec!! :drool: One more spot up the periodic table for you!
wow I can really feel the love, thx.
Like I said above.
Do you level in your ethereal armor and bonesnap, too?
Please make it through hell with your best lld gear. I'll pay to see it.Nope. But I have with soe, shaftstop, max damage jools and enough life/resist charms to make me effective in either scenario. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that damage = good, safety = good in either pvp or pvm situations?
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:36
wow I can really feel the love, thx.
Them's my opinion on pks.
Who knows you're probably a real nice guy in life and in a pvm game. I'll level with you and swap items with you and have a real good time.
But don't point that hostile button my way and expect me to thank you for it. It's the worst thing anyone can do to another person in Diablo.
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:39
You would have been except for the part where you told lime guy Baalos that if he killed one of your pixelated thingies you'd feel like inflicting harm on a real person. That pretty much makes you lame.
Baalos is one of the nicest cats on Bnet. Just because you lose a character doesn't mean you need to punch a hole in your wall or threaten. Besides, your mom will make you clean up the mess.
Thank you for a hilarious post that reminds me why I love this game.
Edit: Happy belated birthday, Tec!! :drool: One more spot up the periodic table for you!
But don't expect me to believe your characters mean absolutely nothing to you.
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 01:45
Nope. But I have with soe, shaftstop, max damage jools and enough life/resist charms to make me effective in either scenario. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that damage = good, safety = good in either pvp or pvm situations?
You've got me intrigued now.
You got a build that can do both pvm and pvp? If its a build more sophisticated than the monochrome FO build please enlighten me. I'm not being sarcastic.
I don't kill people so I really don't know the in's and out's. As far as I can understand, +safety = -damage, especially in lld. Yours is obviously a high lvl char, so more options there. Please share.
As far as this thread hey I'm sharing my opinion like you're with yours. I don't want to hurt you, I just don't agree with you. Dying to pks happen to be very personal to me, though I seem to be the minority on that subject.
HR-Tecira
26-02-2004, 01:58
Nah a lvl 18 is not going to be able to take on lvl 7x's in most situations simply due to the massive to hit penalty. It does not matter so much what damage you do if you can't hit your target.
Thanks for the bday wish mac. Forgot about the periodic table thing hehe.
I dont think Zappa is paying the rent on time. I have tried to respond 3 times to you but I keep getting a message too short prompt. I'll try one more time...
First point, I have been thanked for for giving probably better items than was lost to the guy that stayed to fight. Not for taking his ear. I tell the guy to meet me in a pwed game and give bloodletter or what ever. One guy asked me to be on his f/list for that.
Second point. Unless you are building a mfer, maximize your damage and your defense. Have an inventory full of life charms so full you can only pick one item up. My pkers have enough room in inventory for one ear, thats it. Its not rocket science. No special formula. It just means building as if you were a pker . Heres the ticket. Damage reducing gear + maximum damage causing gear + life = pk build. It also = a viable hc character.
edit: oh and yes Beth, happy birthday please pass the cake! Mac has the party hats!
Cleglaw_Himself
26-02-2004, 02:14
I really don't know what all the fuss is about Blood_and_Iron.
The hostile button exists in every game.
If you get hostiled, just simply save and exit, then rejoin if prefer, or if you aren't near a wp, tp to town.
Not that hard really to never get pked.
I don't get pked anymore, just deaths by duel.
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 02:17
I dont think Zappa is paying the rent on time. I have tried to respond 3 times to you but I keep getting a message too short prompt. I'll try one more time...
First point, I have been thanked for for giving probably better items than was lost to the guy that stayed to fight. Not for taking his ear. I tell the guy to meet me in a pwed game and give bloodletter or what ever. One guy asked me to be on his f/list for that.
Second point. Unless you are building a mfer, maximize your damage and your defense. Have an inventory full of life charms so full you can only pick one item up. My pkers have enough room in inventory for one ear, thats it. Its not rocket science. No special formula. It just means building as if you were a pker . Heres the ticket. Damage reducing gear + maximum damage causing gear + life = pk build. It also = a viable hc character.
edit: oh and yes Beth, happy birthday please pass the cake! Mac has the party hats!
Hey that guy consented to fight you. He's entitled. But no bloodletter is worth the time and effort put into building a character to me.
As for general principles on building character, that's fine. There are always differences, though. No pvm character would bother to stack resists or use all ethereal items, for example. Viable, yes. Efficient, different for pvp and pvm.
I think we're clear, then. :)
Blood_And_Iron
26-02-2004, 02:21
I really don't know what all the fuss is about Blood_and_Iron.
The hostile button exists in every game.
If you get hostiled, just simply save and exit, then rejoin if prefer, or if you aren't near a wp, tp to town.
Not that hard really to never get pked.
I don't get pked anymore, just deaths by duel.
I don't get pked anymore, either.
It just pisses me off when pks mention "honor," or expects to be thanked for killing you, or gets pissed off when people leave the game.
The original poster made good points. I don't have a problem with that.
I just hate pks. Simple. :)
Ross Hanstead was a big 4rth grader. I was a small 3rd grader. Ross used to get his kicks out of terrorizing me and other younger, smaller kids as we walked home from school, making the walk dreadful.
PKers (Im not talking about duelers) are no different. They get their kicks praying on the weak or ruining anothers gaming experience. PKers can make any rebuttal they like to this, but it wont change the fact that they are what they are and that in essence is a bully. I don't care how legitimate you are. At some point you ruined someones gaming experience, you may not have meant to, but you did. That makes you a bully. Ross could have bought me an ice cream and apologized the day after socking me in the stomach, but if he then continued socking me or anyone else did it make it ok?
Usually bullies don't care, as will be demonstrated by any response to this post. Just see below. We as individuals can only understand they exist and either avoid them or choose to stand up to them.
End of story.
PhatTrumpet
26-02-2004, 03:22
I went ahead and made a 27 Honor Naga Charger. My friend helped PA through half of NM, but I was short 2 Carnages and a few sus charms, but I was so anxious to try him out that I started hunting normal Baals.
First game I enter I say "sup guys" and hostile. The first reply I get is, "lol, if you're gonna pk at least use the wp trick." This blew me away... a PvMer (he probably delved into pking a bit too I bet) making fun of me for not exploiting the waypoint bug... perhaps I should use maphack too? Anyway, I go down after the timer runs out and start hunting. The only person left down there was a Sorc, so I started charging her but she fluxed right away (I think I got a low roll in just as she fluxed). She comes back immediately saying I had hit her 3 times and did crap damage. Even with this false info nobody dared to leave town, so I left.
The next couple games I get more crap about hostiling and not actually going down to hunt, apparently some people still aren't aware there's a 10 second timer. A lot of people scanning my gear too. I had a perfect non-eth Snap on switch to make people think I was "just another n00b snapper"... funny thing is I actually did a whole lot more dmg with the Naga/+max shield.
Eventually I get to a game where there's a 43 Barb and a 60+ Werewolf. I say what the heck, it's been over an hour and not a single bit of action, and hostile. The Druid immediately starts listing off my decoy gear in a different language, and somehow I manage to talk them into coming out into the Foothills (bad idea in retrospect: 1. for trying to go up against a 60+ Druid 2. for doing it in the Foothills rather than Blood Moor). First I see a Zon spamming arrows, decide to go pick her off until I see three more red crosses coming out at me. I didn't have time to check the party screen, but I figured it was the Druid and Barb and someone else who didn't matter. I retreat a bit and try to flank them and take out the Oak Sage but it's nowhere in sight. Then I see who the third guy was... a Fanat Pally.
Of course I wasn't about to back down at this point, all I had to do was avoid the Druid until I could take out the Pally... oh wait, I'm already dead. They were pretty pumped. The scales may have been somewhat tipped in their favor, but I congratulated them on their victory and for standing up to me, and said goodbye before the verbal abuse could ensue. Just wanted to let you guys know that this stuff still does happen once in a while.
*Looks around* Who ever said they expected to be thanked for killing them?
If you hate pks, play another game.
Hate cheaters. Hate Ross Hanstead and big 4th graders. How come there arent any monster rights activists here? *sheesh* dead subject here, time to move along :creep:
SonOfRah
26-02-2004, 03:55
I don't get pked anymore, either.
It just pisses me off when pks mention "honor," or expects to be thanked for killing you, or gets pissed off when people leave the game.
The original poster made good points. I don't have a problem with that.
I just hate pks. Simple. :)
So I'm hated? *shrugs* So what else is new....
Anyway time to post something constructive.
There are many different types of pkers, and sadly the vast majority are lamers pure and simple. What makes and honorable pker is how they go about pking. There's no secret to making a pker than can both pvm and pvp. In fact all a pvper really is, is a character that specialises in killing a single target. Some exceptions exist depending on build/class which has excellent crowd control skills. Once you delve into pvp you will tend to find that all future characters are built differently and tougher.
pking with pvm characters isn't that difficult either. If you know what you are doing ears drop like flies - even with pathetic damage.
So I'm hated? *shrugs* So what else is new....
Anyway time to post something constructive.
Hmm, how interesting, another PK debate thread...WHAT?!?!? contstructive??!?!??! Well, we can't have that.
One thing that must be pointed out from Stinger's original post that I think many pkers erroneously assume is that when people leave very quickly after the hostile horn, they have chickened. I'm not really sure how many MH-ers there are out there, but I can tell you this, I haven't ever used chicken (lost a few characters to triggers in the day), but I am very fast on the exit buttons, whenever there is a hostile sound, the situation gets dicey with the damn black souls (grrr), or what ever. That's just my instanteous reaction, without even thinking. It doesn't even involve the cerebellum, just some parasympathetic impulses in spinal cord. No internal debate, no looking to see what character hostiled, nothing. Exit. Why? I believe it was very eloquently stated in the old 1.08 HC FAQ: if you stay, you will mostly likely die. I find dying annoying. If I didn't, I'd play SC. (do I have that backwards?) Anyhow, my point is in here somewhere, and I think its something about not everyone who leaves is chickening, nor are they necessarily even that interested in what happens after the horn. Did I say that somewhere?
Shadoway
26-02-2004, 05:31
For most of my pvm chars, I Alt-F4 as soon as the hostile sound went off. I would only stay with my high level necro if he has all the summons up. No doubt he has not been hostiled.
Regarding the "chicken" debate, I think some of the guys confused the concept of a player with the concept of a character. A player is a real person while a character is a combination of different types of electrical signals. A player can have multiple characters. A PK player would also exit the game really fast, if his mf'er or his pk'er still under training is hostiled. It is not chicken; it is called D2HC-literated.
Lets say you have a mix of 4 lvl 20's a barb druid and 2 sorc's for example. Most likely the druid will have decent oak lets say adds 70% more life.
Lets say I have my enchantress, lvl 18, whose fire damage does like 10 extra damage. No other skills to speak of. Should she stay for the beating?
Lets say I have my javazon, who waits until level 30 to max LF, Pierce, and Valk. I don't even bother with 1 point in jab either. Should she stay for the beating?
Lets say I have my BO barb, who I'm building to self-BO my other high level characters when he gets the synergies maxed. No other skills. Should he stay for the beating?
How about my lvl 18 hammerdin? Or my lvl 20 Thorns guy (mutual suicide with lvl 20 thorns)?
My point is, almost NONE of my builds will dent the typical low level PK (or high level for that matter). So whats the point in staying for an ear I have no interest in obtaining (and which would be impossible, even if the pk lagged out in front of me).
Also whats so bad about losing a lvl 20 guy that takes what 1.5 hours at most to remake?
Lets see you take an amazon with no attack skills to lvl 25. Tell me how long it took. Now tell me how long it takes if you are unable to get experience in tristram, sewers, arcane because of the multitude of pk's ruining every experience game? It might only take 1.5 hours without interruption. With pks ruining every full game it take 4 or 5 hours.
Mr.Bogohossian
26-02-2004, 06:28
Lets all face it. There is rarely any honor in pking. Pking is a strong kills a weak. like a tiger killing a rabit, it should be looked at and dealed with naturally just like part of our lives. Pking is a thrill of the game. Its fun and it just feels great. Pkk is another story, i just dont think pkk is even worth building for... i mean u have to wait for the right time when pkers hunt and you hunt them. the sole-purpose of such a build is to wait for someone to appear. Like making a char just to kill diablo-clone(whats the fun in that). i had lots lots of duelers, just like alot of you guys here. and yes i do pk. i mean i love it, but when times are right and there are another pker in the game. i either duel them or pkk them. all my chars are built to be well-rounded. Example, A lvl 25 kicksin..... pk>yes, pkk>yes, duel>yes as well. Come on guys, lets just face it. ITs a freakin game, calm yourselves. I know how it feels to be pked but hey... you live on. ANd not all pkers are bullies. I am in my late teens, have a normal life, have my own car and i have a great time with friends. And yes i choose to pk/pkk/duel because those are the only things that keep me playing this game. well thats how i look at it, feel free to pk around, as long as you dont use hacks. You will have a blast! :clap:
PKK is sweet..........some punk is licking his chops picturing my ear in his stash only to get the deeds screen! Its truly priceless, and I know for a fact any pker i ever took on with my PKK build could of killed me quickly but they thought they were after a low damage PvM where they were so wrong, I was only low life!!!
MoUsE_WiZ
26-02-2004, 08:12
You've got me intrigued now.
You got a build that can do both pvm and pvp? If its a build more sophisticated than the monochrome FO build please enlighten me. I'm not being sarcastic.
I don't kill people so I really don't know the in's and out's. As far as I can understand, +safety = -damage, especially in lld. Yours is obviously a high lvl char, so more options there. Please share.
As far as this thread hey I'm sharing my opinion like you're with yours. I don't want to hurt you, I just don't agree with you. Dying to pks happen to be very personal to me, though I seem to be the minority on that subject.
Trapsins can do it, the only REAL difference is that a PvM trapper isn't going to have 20 points in WB for the extra 10% block...oh, and the R/W speed would have gone up a bit if I had built for PvP as well.
My PvM sin;
2k+ life
50% DR
75/85/75/75 w/ 20 light absorb
50% Block instead of 60%
the last FHR breakpoint
1-10K LS
Then yeah, an ES/TK/Orb sorc can do PvP and PvM just fine...
Of course those are both single elemental chars which are 'easy' to counter, but the only telezerker to come after me in the throne room after everyone else had fled to town ended up teleporting into the center of 5 LSs with me spamming MB and fluxing =/
HelzCaretaker
27-02-2004, 18:45
lol kurg thats plain funny. 1st off you have no clue how pvp works if you've never done it. 2nd off I am talking about a true hunter not a wuss with a 24 snapper in arcanes. A lvl 14 for example even with dual angelics has trouble hitting any sigon newb with max block thats at lvl 20 or so. Trust me I missed many pks/duel kills due to this. Basically the single factor allowing a pker to be so fearless is that every1 else has a lot of fear. Think about it for a bit lvl 20 chargers with their synergies using eth azurewraths can't stand up to a lvl 16 .09 thrower, now lets see my dmg is around 650 theirs should be 1.8k if decent, their life should be at least 100 more then mine. But since 95% of pkers can't duel in the 1st place they are easy targets. Any shielded character really has a hard time pking a group of melee that stands and fight its called blocklock.
Also if you have that much trouble lvling its simply a case of being a horrible player, yes thats right you heard me horrible. I can solo with basically crap gear and get thru a2 with relative ease killing basically everything there is. Not very hard to do at all.
And if you have so many problems with pkers then simply make a dueler/pkker and fight them off. Theres a simply way to get them all I can't tell you how many wp kills I've had from pkers in arcanes. These are from mh scanners that know most of my accts and a newbish character of mine jumped them. The typical pker is pure crap posting maybe 500 life at lvl 20-25 with substandard dmg. A decent 16 dueler can beat most of them like a red headed step child so next time people keep running they should learn that almost no pker can 1 hit unless the pvm character really sucks (low lvl).
Chiller_babe
27-02-2004, 19:11
1st off you have no clue A lvl 14 for example even with dual angelics has trouble hitting any sigon newb with max block thats at lvl 20 or so.
Also if you have that much trouble lvling its simply a case of being a horrible player, yes thats right you heard me horrible. I can solo with basically crap gear and get thru a2 with relative ease killing basically everything there is. Not very hard to do at all.
And how many complete newbs have maxed block :scratch: or even a full sigies set?
None of mine do at that level unless I am building a LLD Charac - for 1 thing the shield I use at that level hasn't got the block rating of later eqpt I will use.
No trouble levelling? - well neither would I if I was building:
1) A character that was a standard build and had a decent low level skill that synergized with something later
2) A character twinked to teh teeth:)
However my latest inferno sorc has been a complete nightmare to level solo in large games - mostly due to the fact I have to tank stuff that takes 10 seconds to fry (cant use block as it interrupts the spell everytime I go into Block animation)
Don't jump on people that don't have the time or resources to become the obviously L337 player that you are :) (only jesting) Some people might only have a couple of hours/week to play - so if a pk comes and hostiles them of course they will leave - they would be mad not to!
Chill
Lets all face it. There is rarely any honor in pking. Pking is a strong kills a weak. like a tiger killing a rabit
I couldnt have said it better myself. Especially the honor part.
Im with Stinger. There is nothing like going to an a2 - a4 normal game with my PKK and waiting for the hostile sound to go off. Most PKers are quite surprised that not only did you stay you are coming right at them not running the other way. You would think this would be their first clue that maybe they picked the wrong fight. I think its just great you wasted your time building that PK and lost all his items. T i t for T a t so to say. The old what is good for the goose is good for the gander analogy. :howdy:
One thing I think some people forget (and others have touched on it here) is that pk, pkk is for rich people who play a lot. Also, it's for people who play overpowered builds just for the pk/pkk purpose.
People who don't play a ton or who want to try unusual builds are in the position of running. Period.
It has nothing to do with fear, it's common sense. Clint might say, "a man's gotta know his limitations."
Happy Friday, everyone :drink:
CoonerTheRed
27-02-2004, 23:13
i tend to agree with spero... it's just not worth the risk. i'm not playing hc to risk dying at every (hostiled) opportunity. i tend to enjoy my characters, and i take any death (to pk (honorable or not) lag monster or stupidity) very personally. Whether I have a chance at winning or not (with any size/skill group) just isn't worth it. If i knew that I had a 95% chance of not dying, I STILL wouldn't stick around... mainly because fighting you isn't what gets me off (if it was, i'd be pking/dueling just like you...)
i have no problem with pks, just don't expect that your challenging me automatically makes it enjoyable for me to try and beat you.
and to whoever said that talking trash automatically means I deserve to die, you're full of moose turds. talking trash is at least as fun as dueling (i would say more fun) and my talking trash is no worse than your hostiling me... both are fun for the initiater, obnoxious to the recipient, and not at all productive...
DFA-FrstbyteOO
27-02-2004, 23:40
These PK/Anti-PK threads always amuse me.
some of you have no idea who your talking to and its quite funny.
trust me on this, when HelzCareTaker explains something about PvP, take it as being fact. Im 100% positive that whatever he says has been tried, tested, and proven. Take whatever Tecira has to tell you as fact also. same goes with Rah or Carnage-DVS.
you guys are trying to talk PvP with some of the best PvPers to ever grace USEast.
you may not like PKs but they will never go away. when we reffer to an "honorable" pk it means that this person used everything legit, from tatics to gear. no wp timer bypass or whatnot. that hornorable pk gave everyone in the game a fair chance to make thier choice to stay and fight or tp or leave. and we wont ***** about your choice.
I love when I come across PKK's. Its more than I bargained for and I enjoy the challenge even greater than trying to run down ppl who chose to stay when I hostile.
as far as the chicken exit.. we KNOW the difference between a manual alt+F4, or a save+exit compared to a chicken flux. heres a little hint and you might take notice of it too.. when the hostile sound fires.. you will exit AFTER the sound no matter how quickly your fingers can get you out. when someone is using the chicken module.. they will leave before the siren finishes its sound. THAT is a chicken flux.
happy belated B-Day btw Beth :D
One thing I think some people forget (and others have touched on it here) is that pk, pkk is for rich people who play a lot. Also, it's for people who play overpowered builds just for the pk/pkk purpose.
:drink:
Na, you dont ahve to be rich.....you just have to collect the goodies that you trade, toss, sell and use them. i have traded away 4-5 LLd characters worth of charms and jewels and have a mule full of this stuff now.
If you make new characters and actually play the game most of the way thru nrom you will find 2-10 things that could be used for a PKK, and the rest you find and tos with your high lvls every day if you dont know what you are looking for.
Remember this, you have suprise on your side as they are expectin and easy kill.......they are going for max damage and many times have low life, no merc. If you have BIG life, max Block and a decent attack you will survies to either make them flux or kill them.
It isnt all about ears ppl........most look as an ear as the only reward but it simply isnt.
It is damn hard for a LLPK/LLD to hit a character wearing an Eth Ancinet Armor with Max Block!!! or a Jabber with Max Block and 50% dodge.
Also, as a PKK you can pick higher lvls than what you expect the PK to be. It is perfectly normal to have a lvl 24 Zon in Act 2 but the avearge PK there is 9-18.
In my book if the punk hostiles my PKK 2-3 times his lvl then he made a mistake, its not my fault this fool is that low!
Chiller_babe
28-02-2004, 00:03
These PK/Anti-PK threads always amuse me.
some of you have no idea who your talking to and its quite funny.
trust me on this, when HelzCareTaker explains something about PvP, take it as being fact. Im 100% positive that whatever he says has been tried, tested, and proven. Take whatever Tecira has to tell you as fact also. same goes with Rah or Carnage-DVS.
happy belated B-Day btw Beth :D
You just missed my point 100%
What I said was people playing underpowered characters, or people with les experience shouldn't try and stand up to PK's. If You only have 3 hours a week to play you obviously aren't going to be as good a player as somone who has devoted a lot of spare time over years to become good at dueling/PKing.
I personally have no problem with Pk's and should I be playing a character that might stand a chance against even a semi-decent player I may stay and fight. The only times I have landed hits on a PK recently, they have vanished from the game only to reappear later and flame me for trying not to die! Great! if you are going to flux at least have the decency to stay away!
If I am going to stay to fight however, the chance I will die is a lot higher than squishing some skellies - and some people might not have the time to rebuild a character - even if it only takes you 2.5 hours to do it!
The comment I took a modicom if offense to was that because you may have problems levelling a new Charac (whether being a newb or an occasional player ) means you are such a crap player you shouldn't bother (correct me if I'm wrong HelzCare Taker but that seemed th Gist of your comments)
Chill
CoonerTheRed
28-02-2004, 00:33
lol kurg thats plain funny. 1st off you have no clue how pvp works if you've never done it.
wow, how you can flame someone for simply stating that his untwinked character with as close to base stats and 4 skill points allocated at lvl 20 can't stand up to a twinked lvl 9 or anything is beyond me. I've never pked, but I know a heck of a lot about it from reading here (know thy hunter), and it's just common sense that my orb sorc who hasn't used a single skill point except for prereqs has little chance of killing your well twinked pk (even if it was lvl 2...). And while it may be hard for you to hit me, you only have to do it once... why should i wait to see if you're gonna get lucky- especially since it's something that i didn't even want to get involved in in the first place!
Also if you have that much trouble lvling its simply a case of being a horrible player, yes thats right you heard me horrible. I can solo with basically crap gear and get thru a2 with relative ease killing basically everything there is. Not very hard to do at all.
you're right, its not hard, it doesn't even take that long. but if its ok with you, i'd rather not waste the two hours of boredom doing it. Again, I don't mind pks, just don't expect me to stick around playing your game when its just to make you happy.
And if you have so many problems with pkers then simply make a dueler/pkker and fight them off. Theres a simply way to get them all I can't tell you how many wp kills I've had from pkers in arcanes. These are from mh scanners that know most of my accts and a newbish character of mine jumped them. The typical pker is pure crap posting maybe 500 life at lvl 20-25 with substandard dmg. A decent 16 dueler can beat most of them like a red headed step child so next time people keep running they should learn that almost no pker can 1 hit unless the pvm character really sucks (low lvl).
Quite frankly, I don't wanna. I don't think it would be that fun. And if I'm playing a game in (too much of) my free time, I'm not tempted to do something I don't wanna do.
That's really all this argument comes down to. You hostile me cause you want to fight. Fine- I'm ok with that. But don't expect that to mean I'm automatically gonna go fight you, because I don't want to. I find it rather hypocritical of you to say "you don't know what you're talking about" when you're the one who clearly can't understand why I don't feel the need to bother. I can respect pvps even if i don't do it... when will you learn to respect my wishes to not pvp?
edit: that last part sounds much more personal than intended... it isn't directed at a "you" in specific, just a generic "you" :drink:
I can respect pvps even if i don't do it... when will you learn to respect my wishes to not pvp?
Nice, very nice. That is what this all boils down to.
DFA-FrstbyteOO
28-02-2004, 03:39
You just missed my point 100%
What I said was people playing underpowered characters, or people with les experience shouldn't try and stand up to PK's. If You only have 3 hours a week to play you obviously aren't going to be as good a player as somone who has devoted a lot of spare time over years to become good at dueling/PKing.
I personally have no problem with Pk's and should I be playing a character that might stand a chance against even a semi-decent player I may stay and fight. The only times I have landed hits on a PK recently, they have vanished from the game only to reappear later and flame me for trying not to die! Great! if you are going to flux at least have the decency to stay away!
If I am going to stay to fight however, the chance I will die is a lot higher than squishing some skellies - and some people might not have the time to rebuild a character - even if it only takes you 2.5 hours to do it!
The comment I took a modicom if offense to was that because you may have problems levelling a new Charac (whether being a newb or an occasional player ) means you are such a crap player you shouldn't bother (correct me if I'm wrong HelzCare Taker but that seemed th Gist of your comments)
Chill
Chill,
I wasnt directing anything at you or anyone else really in particular. I didnt miss your point cuz I wasnt reffering to anyones points..
but what I did mention in my little post is that honorable pks do not whine and moan if every one in the game decided to leave. that is the opportunity we would like you to have. yes thats right.. we honorable pks will give you ample time to tp to town, leave, whatever you decide. we wont force anyone to stay and fight if they dont want to. wait it out for a min and wed most likely leave for the ng if no one wants to try thier skill, luck, brains or whatever else you can think of.
*YAWN... this thread started well, the last few pages have deteriorated somewhat - no reflection on the posters, just that this has turned into yet another of the pro-pk/anti-pk spam arguments. Guys, neither of you will change their viewpoint, so why bother? (rhetorical question: please don't bother trying to answer!)
Here's the fact on the pk scene as it is in East at the moment (well... as of about 2 weeks ago): no-one is pking sewers/arcane with -20s... they're using 20+s (true... there might be the odd one of the guys here going at it with pkers in their 'teens'). It's popular to use the 24 Snapperpally... and it's also oh-so-lame.
Another thing about the dueling/pking scene: filled with adolescent children who really should get a reality check on the game, and as Stinger said: treat people as you would be treated (as in at least be courteous whilst you're killing someone ;) ).
Please note: this diatribe is not aimed at the PK/dueling crowd from within these boards. 'Tis just an observation from someone who plays/played quite a bit... and rin the last few months almost exclusively within the LLD/pkking scene within East.
Cheers all
m
First off: To all of you so called PKer who join public game to satisfy yourself in collecting some ears---I just don't have respect for all guys. I don't understand the concept of pking in public games. If they wanted to pk then they would be in a pk room.
Here I am spent hours and hours lvling and some inconsiderate idiot want pk me. O hell no.
By all means.. I am not saying that all you PKers are lame. Let me justify "Lame PKer"==Lvl89 druid pking in normal sewer runs games. How pathetic. I could name more but these PKers are the worst.
And not to forget those Pkers who have earned my respect. And believe I have seen many. Are those 1) Ask for my permission to duel. 2) Who PK in PK room.
Now those are IMO the PKers that have earn the term PKers.
I am not pissed at any of you pkers. I am just expressing my and only my opinion toward some pker.
I or We can't blame none of you pkers but to blizzard. Why can't blizzard remedy this by having both or mutually hostile each other. Thus, he can't kill me if I don't hostile him.
Good luck to you legit PKer. And if you manage to pk me I will congratulate you as you deserved it. And as always.....
Ok Pinoy... I'm assuming you're from the Phillippines & not a Native Speaker of English. That's cool. But a few points in your post were a lil' confusing.
... If they wanted to pk then they would be in a pk room...
... Are those 1) Ask for my permission to duel. 2) Who PK in PK room...
Ummm... I think you're confusing the term 'pk' somewhat. Perhaps you're unaware that pkers & duelers are most often reasonably dissimilar builds.
Now those are IMO the PKers that have earn the term PKers.
...
PKer means 'Player Killer'... so, ipso facto - anyone who kills a player is a pker.
Just save and exit.
Cheers
m
Is enchant in classic as powerful as it is in Xpac?
If so...goodgame pkers.
Chiller_babe
28-02-2004, 22:09
Chill,
I wasnt directing anything at you or anyone else really in particular. I didnt miss your point cuz I wasnt reffering to anyones points..
but what I did mention in my little post is that honorable pks do not whine and moan if every one in the game decided to leave. that is the opportunity we would like you to have. yes thats right.. we honorable pks will give you ample time to tp to town, leave, whatever you decide. we wont force anyone to stay and fight if they dont want to. wait it out for a min and wed most likely leave for the ng if no one wants to try thier skill, luck, brains or whatever else you can think of.
Yay - sorry I went a bit off the rails - but this pregnant thing has well stuffed up my hormones. I seem to take offense at very little:)
Anyways - PK is fun, PvM is fun - we all play the game to have fun. It's just a shame there are some who play to deliberately ruin others fun. I just wish there were more "honourable" PK's out there - means I might actually get an ear when I stay around when hostiled rather than xxxPK_MORONxxx has left the game when I land the 1st hit:D
Might even make building PKK's worth while!
Chill
Na, you dont ahve to be rich.....you just have to collect the goodies that you trade, toss, sell and use them. i have traded away 4-5 LLd characters worth of charms and jewels and have a mule full of this stuff now.
If you make new characters and actually play the game most of the way thru nrom you will find 2-10 things that could be used for a PKK, and the rest you find and tos with your high lvls every day if you dont know what you are looking for.
Ok, granted, rich is a relative term. I've played 3 characters enough to get them into hell since the patch. I haven't played enough to find a single 3 socket mask or breast plate, or a 4 socket ancient armor.
I do have some jewels and bits and pieces I could use, but I would have to work hard trading and messing around to twink and make a low level pkk or pk.
You may think you aren't rich, but compared to me I'm pretty sure you are. I've read your posts. :wave:
NightShade
29-02-2004, 03:27
*walks right past this post without even thinking of replying*
*turns back around*
Bah. The simple reason people don't fight is because that's not a logical idea. Fighting a well built pk will get you dead. Even in groups. They have ALOT of fire power.
That level 50 sorc is nice, but my 18 charger could elimate her within seconds. Why take the risk.
personally I am done with X pack, I don't like what it is anymore. I'm done with Pk'ing...I don't like what it is anymore. It's changed for me since the introduction of the fact that I can only get an ear thru utter ********tery and WP hopping.
Yup. I'm with NS.
Cheers
m
NightShade
29-02-2004, 05:58
Lets do a comparison :
A WW barb with a 300 dmg martel at lvl 80 does about 1500 whirl damage
A lvl 34 Paladin can get a 500 dmg martel, does about 6000
A 34 Paladin can have 25% dr, and life of about 1000
A barb can have 10% dr (lol) and life at about 3k+
Outside of a huge defensive advantage, that barb would get stomped. Even worse if the pala was using an honor naga and a sweet sheild..
The fact is that a lvl 18 is easily then equal of a lvl 50 classic in some cases. Thus why people no longer stay
Silkweed
29-02-2004, 06:56
When I'm in a public game, which is next to never, and someone hostiles, I leave the game as soon as I can. This is because I make the assumption that the person hostiling knows what he's doing and will kill me. I might be wrong, but frankly, I don't care to stay and find out.
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