Melee Paladin, fact or fantasy?

[terrymanning]

I guess it’s time for me to build a melee Paladin. I have a level 70 Hammerdin but I just can’t get the hang of aiming the hammers. I doubt I could get him through Hell difficulty with my poor aiming skills so now I have a level 70 mule.

On to questions.

1) What builds are still viable?
2) Can I still use a Fanatic Avenger?
3) What range of crushing blow/deadly strike should I aim for?
4) Does Zeal still work OK?
5) I have Horizon’s Tornado. Is this and end game weapon? If so, what is appropriate socket?
6) Shaftstop, Lion Heart or Guardian Angel?
7) Max block yes, max block no?


Btw, I dont have the wealth to trade for a HoZ.

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

TM

[Jedi]

I guess it’s time for me to build a melee Paladin. I have a level 70 Hammerdin but I just can’t get the hang of aiming the hammers. I doubt I could get him through Hell difficulty with my poor aiming skills so now I have a level 70 mule.

On to questions.

1) What builds are still viable?
2) Can I still use a Fanatic Avenger?
3) What range of crushing blow/deadly strike should I aim for?
4) Does Zeal still work OK?
5) I have Horizon’s Tornado. Is this and end game weapon? If so, what is appropriate socket?
6) Shaftstop, Lion Heart or Guardian Angel?
7) Max block yes, max block no?


Btw, I dont have the wealth to trade for a HoZ.

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

TM

i have started ladder with a classic zealot that used the new synergies.
he is currently lvl 90 but i had a real tough adventure until i finaly became a guardian.

the problem with paladins except the hammerdins are that u need elite gear to make a viable build for hell. in worst case there is not even one item that adds mf%.

5)
horizons i would say u had very bad luck. the other scourage is a lot better and which is a so called end game weapon.

3) u need everthiny that u can get your hands on :) highlords amu. gorerider boots.mods on weapon etc. the more the better.

6)
as far as i know your itemstock i would say shaft... 50% damage reduce is a value u should aim for no matter from whcih items. guardian angel is nice if u can aquire the damage reduce from somewhere else... well but there are nto many options. beside that the advanced block is not really neccesary for a pala. he will have low dex anyway with holy shield.

7)
of course max block... without it u run around like a living target that begs for a kill :)

4) if u max the synergies its a lot damage but Iron Maiden in worlstone keep and melee fight= lowlife are the general problems.

regards
jedi

[Chiller_babe]

I guess it’s time for me to build a melee Paladin. I have a level 70 Hammerdin but I just can’t get the hang of aiming the hammers. I doubt I could get him through Hell difficulty with my poor aiming skills so now I have a level 70 mule.

On to questions.

1) What builds are still viable?
2) Can I still use a Fanatic Avenger?
3) What range of crushing blow/deadly strike should I aim for?
4) Does Zeal still work OK?
5) I have Horizon’s Tornado. Is this and end game weapon? If so, what is appropriate socket?
6) Shaftstop, Lion Heart or Guardian Angel?
7) Max block yes, max block no?


Btw, I dont have the wealth to trade for a HoZ.

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

TM

Always have been, always will be my favourite - the underdog melee paladin. The only problem I have been having with them is the small life(for a melee charac anyways)

Pure Avenger - has the damage to knock the stuffing out of everything whatever the immunities, Fanatic avenger too - but may be short of points to get the damage right up there!

Tesladin - my fave - better hope to avoid lightening immunes:)

Fanatic Zealot also still works - Zeal now adds damage and AR so still a very viable skill - as long as your AR is good.

If going with a Physical damage charac - around 50/50 CB/DS worked for me - the more the better as far as I am concerned.

Guardian angel would be my choice unless you go pure avenger and max the synergies.

And yes max block (did I say max it) - please max it - with a few in holy shield the dex investment isn't too steep anyway.

By the way I use a sanctary shield on my lvl82 Pally - does the job, good blocking/res and a good dex bonus - and I have made it to guardian without exactly good eqpt (ask any of the Europe Gatters they probably know:))

Chill

EDIT:Lol beat me to the answers Jedi - I still think Guardian is better for armour tho - but then my scariest moments have involved elemental attck so far :surprise:

[WackenOpenAir]

i have a vengeance pally.

the damage he does is reasonable (3k one handed with baranars + conviction)

lvl 72, NM act5. needs better defensive stuff to go to hell (Hoz would do a lot)

of course max block.

[skunkbelly]

I have a vengeance pally who is looking like he's going to become a level 70 mule. He can kill stuff just fine, but he's BORING :)

The problem with the build is that basically, all you do is hit stuff. The only time you ever switch a skill is to renew your holy shield. Otherwise, it's vengeance on the left button, conviction on the right. Yawn.

[Chiller_babe]

I have a vengeance pally who is looking like he's going to become a level 70 mule. He can kill stuff just fine, but he's BORING :)

The problem with the build is that basically, all you do is hit stuff. The only time you ever switch a skill is to renew your holy shield. Otherwise, it's vengeance on the left button, conviction on the right. Yawn.

Until you meet the conviction enchanted FE MSLE monster - then it's Aaaarrggh - which damn hotkey did I use for those Resist Auras :surprise:

Most of my Pallys have a wide range of Auras they use when with a party - be it Vigour, Meditation, Cleansing - mostly 1 point wonders admittedly but still useful :uhhuh:

Solo play is - well boring at the best of times tho and I have found most of my 1.10 characs have a much more limited selection of stronger skills they use - thats 1 of my dislikes about the patch

Just my tuppence

Chill

[kardinaal]

if u max the synergies its a lot damage but Iron Maiden in worlstone keep and melee fight= lowlife are the general problems.

Zeal isn't the best skill with IM. But any zeal build I've seen could easily switch to a bow/javelin and still have good enough damage to kill (especially the tesladin).

[kurg]

If you're looking for excitement, try a missionary (conversion + thorns). Not excitement due to fast killing. But excitement in which you never know how hard you're going to get hit wading into the next pack of monsters because you never know when the conversion odds are going to roll against you. :D

It can work through nightmare with resonable efficiency (in no more than 4 player games).

I took a break from playing hell until I got a 2nd cdkey. Now with battle orders available to me in hell, my conversion pally might do all right.

Ok so the battle order dependence might be cheese, but I don't like dying. I'm sure it could be done with better gear than the crap I have. (I have no dmg reduction).

One trick: converting monsters higher level than you leaves them with 1-hitpoint when they unconvert --- even in 8 player games. So this build will work awesome until you are lvl 85-ish at which point it becomes more problematic. Then you have to actually let the thorns do its work which is slow unless you're in a single player game.

The main problem is ranged and elemental attackers. I'm not in great danger from them, but thorns is worthless. I'm thinking of conviction + veng as backup, or a weak tesladin build as backup. (thorns conversion is cheap as it only takes about 5 points in conversion +5 skills to hit the wall on returns). And max thorns of course +skills. But that's only 25 points plus prereqs.

[Prez]

On to questions.

1) What builds are still viable?
Avenger works well, Fanatic Zeaot, Tesladin works well
2) Can I still use a Fanatic Avenger?
Not really..you need conviction to break immunities and to kill efficiently in hell
3) What range of crushing blow/deadly strike should I aim for?
50%/50% is where you want to be..or in the neighborhood
4) Does Zeal still work OK?
Zeal works fine for large relative harmless groups. Also good for leeching.
5) I have Horizon’s Tornado. Is this and end game weapon? If so, what is appropriate socket?
Yes, this will work as an end game weapon. Socket depends on your build...if you are a Fanat Zealot you want to get 4fps, so chk the tables. It probably is already that fast without a shael. Otherwise...look to pump your dmg..I might even consider a +min dmg jewel of some sort because the min dmg on a horizon is pitiful.
6) Shaftstop, Lion Heart or Guardian Angel?
GA. Your life is going to be around 1500+/- depending on your gear. With Max block and a decent holy shield, your main concern will be surviving elemental attacks since you will block/defend most physical. GA will get your resistances to 90% and also basically guarantee you max block with a relatively low end shield.
7) Max block yes, max block no?
YES!


Btw, I dont have the wealth to trade for a HoZ.
You NEED a HOZ. Also a gaze works well if u can dig one up. Orphan set isn't a bad option with lots of cb on the helm and dual leech on the belt.


Prez

[Chiller_babe]

if u max the synergies its a lot damage but Iron Maiden in worlstone keep and melee fight= lowlife are the general problems.

Zeal isn't the best skill with IM. But any zeal build I've seen could easily switch to a bow/javelin and still have good enough damage to kill (especially the tesladin).

I agree on the damage point - my Tesladin kicks out about 5k damage per hit with only very average gear!

However I'm a Paladin - and that means I'm not going to seen running round WSK without my shield :lol: - somehow the idea is more scary than IM. When I see IM I just switch to a dagger - I do Sod all physical damage anyways:)

Chill

[Kilmin]

hah, TM if you really in need of HOZ taht bad, i have a ton of them, I will give you one if needed.. Just msg me on here, Im not on much but i will take the time to get on and give you one..

-Kil-

[Chiller_babe]

Btw, I dont have the wealth to trade for a HoZ.
You NEED a HOZ. Also a gaze works well if u can dig one up. Orphan set isn't a bad option with lots of cb on the helm and dual leech on the belt.


Prez
100 % agree with everything but the quote above - It might be very nice to have a HOZ but in all my time playing I never found 1 and it hasn't really hurt:)

And lets face it - who plays a melee Pally these days that isn't

1) A PK Charger
2) A Hammeerdin
or
3) an underdog!

Chill

[Lostprophet]

The best part about the Pally, imho opinion, is his versatility. There are extremely few skills on his tree that have no viable use (though the Prayer branch comes close), he can be a melee char, a caster, or a hybrid of the two. He can use two-handed weapons (Chargadin), one handed weapons (most everything else), or ranged weapons (the Ranger/Throwsmiter builds). There are so many viable builds: Chargadin, Zealadin, Avenger, Hammerdin, Liberator, FoH offshoots, Missionary: just a pick some skills and see how they pan out. I've most enjoyed playing as the Avenger and Tesladin, and both seem very viable to me.

So in conclusion, blah.

[Prez]

Ahh...
A pally without his hoz is like a barb without an arreats, or a druid without a jalals, or a necro without a homuculous, or a javazon without her titans...ect.

Can you get by without...probably...

But a Pally NEEDS his Hoz...if for no other reason then self-respect!

:)

Prez

[Chiller_babe]

Ahh...
A pally without his hoz is like a barb without an arreats, or a druid without a jalals, or a necro without a homuculous, or a javazon without her titans...ect.

Can you get by without...probably...

But a Pally NEEDS his Hoz...if for no other reason then self-respect!

:)

Prez

Hey man as long as you keep Holy Shield up - you can tell every1 you have a Hoz - and noone will know :idea:

Chill

[terrymanning]

hah, TM if you really in need of HOZ taht bad, i have a ton of them, I will give you one if needed.. Just msg me on here, Im not on much but i will take the time to get on and give you one..

-Kil-

Well, Prez said it. Apparently I need one if I hope to have any self respect. I will try and trade you for it though. Who knows, I might have something you need.

TM

[PhatTrumpet]

HoZ is somewhat of a staple for any Pally build, but GA I only see as a Hammerdin armor. I mean sure, your max resists are 90, but how easy is it to actually get your resists that high without holding a Wizzy in one hand? And the increased blocking is completely unnecessary since most people put quite a few pts in Holy Shield.


Anyway, I have a 77 Avenger using Heaven's Light. His Convic reduces resists by 150% and he does about 1.5-2.2k with only one point in Vengeance (slvl 10 with +skills though). I wanted to get 10 in all the single resist auras before pumping Vengeance so that my max resists would be 80, although at the moment I'm only around 80/70/70/70 even with Smoke armor and a 65 resists rare shield (this thing is so ghetto, it was +2 Combat Skills, of Deflection suffix, and 27% resists with 2 open sockets :evil: ). Holy Shield gets his def up to about 8k, and if his Holy Freeze Merc would actually stay alive for more than 2 seconds I imagine he'd be doing pretty well.


I didn't bother much with leach, as it's pretty ineffective in hell and I figured wearing a shako would up my mana and life enough so that I could just use Redemption every once in a while and stay pretty full (around 1450 life and 320 mana right now). He 2- to 3-hit kills just about everything in solo games, and I'm sure it'll only get better as I throw points into Vengeance. I've also got a wand on switch with charges of lvl 5 Confuse for ugly monster packs... works pretty well. All this without a HoZ or godly duped rune weapon. :p



EDIT: Got an extra one for me Kilmin? :innocent:

[Prez]

Actually its not hard to get the resists up...hoz comes with 50% all res. Stick a pdiamond in it and you have +69%. LOH, Aldurs boots are great sources for fire res. Saracens great for all res and stats. IK Belt awesome for Light and Fire. A few charms, a decent ring, and you are there. And none of these items, other than the Hoz, is particularly hard to obtain. Especailly in fire and light which are the two most critical resistances imho.

And the increased blocking on the GA allows you to put very, very few pts in dex and maintain max block. My pally has max holy shield with GA and Hoz. His dex is around 120 at the moment (mostly from equipment) and has max block. Just a way to get max block and allow you to pump vit even more.

Prez

[hoyster]

If you're really going budget but you need to get those resists up there, a high def paladin only shield with built in resists and 4 sockets can get well over +100 all resists if you drop in some p diamonds, that should help you getting to 90 all with that Guardian Angel, gamble or craft some decent resists on your jewelry and you'll really be rocking and rolling, as well as the aformentioned sets and uniques. With holy shield you'll achieve 75% block fairly easy reguardless of the shield. If you happen to be swimming in runes a beast runeword does pretty good with vengence and conviction, as far as IM is concerned if you go with a holyshock or holyfreeze type of build then just us a really low damage high speed weapon on your switch, if you're going with a zeal fanat type of build just whip out a bow or some throwing weapons.

If you go with zeal and holyshock and/or holyfreeze then don't worry about the deadly strike just load up the Crushing blow.

Have fun with the underdog.

[Mn_Swe2]

What can I say, my next project is a zeal/fana pala too. I have not got that many good items yet for him though, so I willl just play him to NM and wait with Hell.

The idéa came up after testing my old 1.09 Zeal/Fana/Conviction Pala, and that char still rocked. Dishing out 1400? - 2700 dmg for every hit with zeal, and that is using a Baranar, so not really a good end-game weapon.

But apart from Baranar he had good stuff on like Shaft, HoZ, Highlords, Raven, Dwarfstar, Gorerider, String, Tal's Mask and very good charms with max dmg/life ones amongst the best :)

Luckily I had waited to invest 36 points (in the wait for 1.10), so I could easily adjust him to 1.10.

The only downside now is that you can't AURASWITCH, stupid Blizz :p

In 1.09 I had Conviction and Fana going both all the time thx to that trick, but no longer *sigh*

Good luck with your pala!

B.t.w. I also had a hammer-pala at the beginning of 1.10, lvl'ed him to 80, made a mule out of him after that. Was not fun to play at all :lol:

/Magnus

[Corndog]

GA I only see as a Hammerdin armor. I mean sure, your max resists are 90, but how easy is it to actually get your resists that high without holding a Wizzy in one hand?

My Zealots resist are 91/91/91/91 in hell, and I assure you I dont use wizzy.

[PhatTrumpet]

Well I specifically asked "how easy is it?" I was also arguing against the necessity of HoZ and other higher-end gear, as every rich kid making a Hammerdin trades for a Herald and it's the rarest exceptional unique.


At one point I had a 65% resists shield (not bad), GA, 26% Mara's, IK Belt, Aldur's Boots, and a resists ring -- unfortunately I haven't really found any decent resist charms. This setup barely got my cold and poison res out of the red, while fire was close to maxed and lightning was around 40 or 50. Now this is not too bad as long as you've got a decent life pool, but what's the point of wearing the GA at this point? +1 skills on a melee Pally doesn't really help a whole lot (as compared to a Hammerdin). The extra pts saved in dex could just as easily have upped your AR some, which is never really a bad thing (whereas a Hammerdin can practically leave dex at base and doesn't need AR).


Don't get me wrong, a melee Pally can definitely make good use of GA, but generally not in a "budget" fashion I guess is what I'm saying.

[WNxBeeky]

I have a lvl 83 Fana / Conv paladin in hell atm. In one player games he can rock, but any more than 3-4 players, he begins to struggle dmg wise. 75 all resists though, shaft, gaze and string (overkill on dmg reduction)

He was doing 1000-1500 dmg per zeal hit with a lightsabre, before i discovered a unique mighty sceptor in the Pits called 'The Redeemer'.

Now he does 1600-2100 dmg per zeal, which is still nothing compared to a hammerdin....

Still its fun to play. You feel like a proper warrior - and look cool. :)

[L_Clan_Dalamar]

how about frost zealots? any good?

[hoyster]

Dalamar:

I think theres a pretty good guide/comparison of the frost zealot vs. the tesladin (and a build that combines the two) that was recently archived to the strategy guide section and is probably still atop the paladin forum, but i'll try to hit the pros and cons real quick here.

Frost zealot functions pretty much like the tesladin, only with a little less damage output, you have the advantage of freezing everything on the screen and doing consistent damage as opposed to the holy shock which adds 1 - xxxx damage and can be inconsistent.

People seem to be all about Crescant Moon weapons as well for their tesladins because its easier to put together than a Doom runeword, although if you have the runes lying around Doom on a frost zealot would probably be nice assuming your aura takes presidence over the built in lvl 12 aura of the rune word (anyone know about this?). Doom also has bigger ED, IAS, reduces enemy resistance by more, +skills, lower req, all its lacking is that static field which is really some nice gravy for the CM.

And since with a frosty you'll be providing the holy freeze theres no need for a HF merc (i always liked them when using zealots, since you usually have to zeal a few times to take down a monster pack its nice if they don't stand there and hit you so fast) so you can go with something like Might for more physical damage, Defiance if you just wanna be a tank (remember you can use Holy Shield) and combine that with the slower attack speed of frozen enemies and you and your merc will live alot longer (just pump those resists up!). Other than that i don't really see any of the other mercs being to usable unless you like having a big sweaty barbarian by your side, you'll have back up elemental skills (vengence, shock) to deal with CI so theres no need for an alternate element from your merc.

Hope that helped.

[L_Clan_Dalamar]

thx! my frost zealot is lvl 40 now and he is rocking pretty good. Holy freeze helps ALOT for hardcore imo

[Corndog]

I have a lvl 83 Fana / Conv paladin in hell atm. In one player games he can rock, but any more than 3-4 players, he begins to struggle dmg wise. 75 all resists though, shaft, gaze and string (overkill on dmg reduction)

He was doing 1000-1500 dmg per zeal hit with a lightsabre, before i discovered a unique mighty sceptor in the Pits called 'The Redeemer'.

Now he does 1600-2100 dmg per zeal, which is still nothing compared to a hammerdin....

Still its fun to play. You feel like a proper warrior - and look cool. :)

Stack on some crushing blow and deadly strike and you will see your killing power go up significantly.