[WHCL] Clone help trade

[Vender_Bender]

Okay... Here's my problem. I'm in a clone game and he spawned and everything but my sorc doesnt do enough dmg to kill him. He doesn't hurt her at all BUT she just cant overlap his regen. I thought my merc's bonehew would stop it but I guess its only in effect for so long.

If someone on WHCL can help me kill him and get the anni I will give you (whenever you may need) something of equal value when you see something I have you want. I would automatically give the item or whatever it may be.

Basically I'm trading someone something they want(an IOU for whatever you want of mine whenever you want it) for an anhilus.

Sure you may say "what if you dont give me anything ever". Well, I am trusting whoever may help me to help kill him and not take the drop. I think an IOU for anything you want that i find whenever you want is worth more than just giving you something(i mean anything I find)

I have helped kill the clone twice for vitisvinfera and he got the charm both times. He can vouch for me. Plus I am tired of damn giving away stuff and getting nothing for it.


SO..... can anyone please help me? I'd like help within abnout 2 1/2 - 3 hours.

[MerDeNoms]

Okay... Here's my problem. I'm in a clone game and he spawned and everything but my sorc doesnt do enough dmg to kill him. He doesn't hurt her at all BUT she just cant overlap his regen. I thought my merc's bonehew would stop it but I guess its only in effect for so long.

If someone on WHCL can help me kill him and get the anni I will give you (whenever you may need) something of equal value when you see something I have you want. I would automatically give the item or whatever it may be.

Basically I'm trading someone something they want(an IOU for whatever you want of mine whenever you want it) for an anhilus.

Sure you may say "what if you dont give me anything ever". Well, I am trusting whoever may help me to help kill him and not take the drop. I think an IOU for anything you want that i find whenever you want is worth more than just giving you something(i mean anything I find)

I have helped kill the clone twice for vitisvinfera and he got the charm both times. He can vouch for me. Plus I am tired of damn giving away stuff and getting nothing for it.


SO..... can anyone please help me? I'd like help within abnout 2 1/2 - 3 hours.


whats ur acct?
i can do it i got a smiter ready

*es1337holmes

[Julius Seizure]

I'll gladly help you with my kicksin. She's soloed the Clone before in a 4 player game.

As for the drop, I can gaurantee I won't take it (aside from the fact that I am an honest person) because my Kicksin is wearing an Anni.

Anyways, PM me if you want to beat him together. I can be online in about an hour (That's 7:30-8:00 pm PST).

Or I can do it within hte next 5 minutes after I post this message.

[Vender_Bender]

julius are you still available?

[robin2010]

i can help right now if needed

[jbshifter]

I can also help, *thunder_cat

[Vender_Bender]

I got it. Thanks MerDeNoms a LOT any good PnB stuff I get is his untill he gets sick of me giving him stuff

not too good a charm but its better than not having one at all 10/11/10

[Vender_Bender]

Im in another clone game he already spawned 11 sojs before i entered but its still counting anyone interested...

214ywe9Ifheg
...........^this is either an I or a 1

there isnt a pass so people will prob find it and youll fight for it. It was my 1st mf run after i got the other charm. been open for 9 minutes im going to finish the run and then leave so you got ~ 6-9 minutes to go in.

[stevethatsmyname]

tells me game does not exist, either way to spell it.

[A_S_G]

tells me game does not exist, either way to spell it.

That's because he posted 24 minutes before you did.

[MerDeNoms]

No problem, glad i could help. The Clone can be pretty hard for casters sometimes since he heals so fast. CB+OW+smite = gg clone :)

[Econ201]

No problem, glad i could help. The Clone can be pretty hard for casters sometimes since he heals so fast. CB+OW+smite = gg clone :)

I always wonder, what is the best char to kill smiter?

Including the speed of killing him, the safety of killing him.

Do you think smiter is the best?

Thx

[Vender_Bender]

probably the only things better are bone nec or hammerdin with totally ubered out gear as far as speed goes with his smiter dclone was dead in about a minute.

[stevethatsmyname]

ive heard that javazon w/ LR = gg clone mostly cause w/ charged strike, every bolt hits the clone cause he's a 'large' target.

btw what is OW?

[Julius Seizure]

I hope everything went well Vender_Bender.

Sorry I couldn't help at the moment, I was at dinner with my family.

As for a great clone hunter, my Talon kicksin takes him out in aproximately 20 seconds in a 1 player game. Having a 5/2/2/2/2/2 frame attack, and leeching insane amounts with life tap (Dracul's grasp), combined with CB and OW leads to one dead clone.

Check out the assasin, better than a zealot or a smiter IMHO. (fast, and you have fade/master making you pretty much invinsible).

[Econ201]

I hope everything went well Vender_Bender.

Sorry I couldn't help at the moment, I was at dinner with my family.

As for a great clone hunter, my Talon kicksin takes him out in aproximately 20 seconds in a 1 player game. Having a 5/2/2/2/2/2 frame attack, and leeching insane amounts with life tap (Dracul's grasp), combined with CB and OW leads to one dead clone.

Check out the assasin, better than a zealot or a smiter IMHO. (fast, and you have fade/master making you pretty much invinsible).

but itsn't that DC cannot leech hp or mana?

[MerDeNoms]

but itsn't that DC cannot leech hp or mana?

Thats right. However, when u get life tap on him u leech insane amounts. Same with meph, andy, baal , diablo, dury and and even skeletons.

OW= open wounds

[Econ201]

Thats right. However, when u get life tap on him u leech insane amounts. Same with meph, andy, baal , diablo, dury and and even skeletons.

OW= open wounds

That's cool, can you lead me to a guile, or are your build any especial then other kicksin guile?

Thx

[aj2000]

Yes please enlighten the world about your kickzin, the more detail and glory and fun the better, hopefully that'll get people to start makin kickzin

*Incidentally begins to stock many kickzin gear such as gorerider, shadowdancer, levi, andy visage, steelrend ...etc.*

[Julius Seizure]

Check out the assassin forum's excellent stickies on Kicking Basics. I'd post the URL, but its just as easy to go there yourself. There also may be a guide, but I somewhat deviated. Basically check out the assassin forum.


The Build I employ for HC survivability uses:

1 point wonders and prereqs...

D-Talon: Enough points to hit SLVL 24/30 (As extra kicks become available at these levels)- usually 18-20 HARD skill points.

Fade: I maxed this- most people don't, but it provides great resists (although with diminishing returns) AND 1% PDR per skill level, including +skills.

Venom: Works wonders- 800 Poison damage over 0.4 seconds.

Weapon Block: Enough for SLVL 10 with +skills

Shadow Master: Enough for SLVL 17 with + skills

And the rest goes into Death Sentry. I have max resists, and 50% pdr (35% coming from Fade)

Dracul's Grasp, Upgraded Gore Riders, and Guillame's face are all you really need. Minimum gear requirements are 50% CB and 35% OW. That's about it-and LOTSA IAS all over the place to compensate for no Burst of Speed (IE cat's eye for me, and multiple 15 ias jewels).

The reason this build is so effective is because of the Extremely fast attacks (fastest in the game) applying Crushing Blow and OW constantly, while leeching 50%+ life from 1.4 k damage kicks (thanks to Dracul's).

EDIT: I use Dual claws, Bartucs and Jade Talon. Some people use a claw/shield, employing the insanely great Flesh Ripper for even more CB and OW%. I Prefer Weapon block however, and dual claws are just too cool.

[Econ201]

I can only find a pvp version of kicksin, but it is different than your build. Because it only needs 1 point into fade instead of max fade.

Also, it has 1 trap, which is just for weapon lock for pvp, i don't know if I should get that if I am pvm, or to attack DC.

Also it max Dflight, which i am not sure either.

If there are a pvm build for kicksin, please tell me.

Thx

[aj2000]

Recall off the top of my head that theres a pvm guide in dii. I think the for PvM kickzin theres really only Dtalon and Dtail + an elemental attack.

Generally standard to have 1 pts in death sentry and other 1 pt wonders like mind blast , CoS...etc. i think. shadow master at least one but preference how much you want to pump, a good tank is always nice.

if you go Dtail route theres a good pvm guide on dii.
Dtalon route is pretty much covered, adding on damage like veno and crushing blow and other damage as much as possible to take advantage of fastest attack in game is really what its about. the reasoning with going fade is because it's pretty easy to max out kick speed, so the utility from all that res and dr really beats maxed attack from bos which is pretty easily doable without bos, whereas all that + res and DR r harder and more expensive to flesh out with gears.

Question: if you have say slvl 30 on Fade, do you get 30%DR?

[madman68]

Im in another clone game he already spawned 11 sojs before i entered but its still counting anyone interested...

214ywe9Ifheg
...........^this is either an I or a 1

there isnt a pass so people will prob find it and youll fight for it. It was my 1st mf run after i got the other charm. been open for 9 minutes im going to finish the run and then leave so you got ~ 6-9 minutes to go in.

I play in hell primarly and I've never seen DC. Heck, I haven't even seen the counter go off in a month or so. Vender you truly are a lucky dog.

[Econ201]

Recall off the top of my head that theres a pvm guide in dii. I think the for PvM kickzin theres really only Dtalon and Dtail + an elemental attack.

Generally standard to have 1 pts in death sentry and other 1 pt wonders like mind blast , CoS...etc. i think. shadow master at least one but preference how much you want to pump, a good tank is always nice.

if you go Dtail route theres a good pvm guide on dii.
Dtalon route is pretty much covered, adding on damage like veno and crushing blow and other damage as much as possible to take advantage of fastest attack in game is really what its about. the reasoning with going fade is because it's pretty easy to max out kick speed, so the utility from all that res and dr really beats maxed attack from bos which is pretty easily doable without bos, whereas all that + res and DR r harder and more expensive to flesh out with gears.

Question: if you have say slvl 30 on Fade, do you get 30%DR?

I finally found one in the strategy site, it is DTail with traps. But his list damge is lower than Julius, about 300 lower, so i wonder how he does it.

that guy say he doesn't use fade, but he doesn't have any DR% in his gear.

He did able to achieve, 75all resist in hall, 85 in lighting(because T-god)
50% CB, 55% OW
90%FHR
+95str, 35 Dex
fastest attack speed.
With a good ligthing trap, 5-2750
8.4k AR
Well, I was thinking is DR really that important? he can achieve a lv11-17 fade if he wants, but i think he use bos.

I am still thinking which guile is better, pvp one or pvm one.

[Julius Seizure]

Both will work fine. I went with safety and pumped Fade(at the time i didn't have armors such as Leviathan etc, just a 15% PDR String). The build i suggested, with venom doing near 1k damage takes out single targets quite fast. It is ONLY for killing bosses, Dclone, and single targets with enormous life (Hence the Death Sentry for easy leveling, Kill 1 target fast, and damage the pack).

Also, when fighting Dclone, you don't have time to stop leeching life and cast your lighting sentries. You WILL be using only DTalon, so any points in traps do squat while fighting the clone, IMO.

Remember too, that + strength items work wonders with kicks (socket accordingly), and +% damage from off weapon sources (NOT + max/min damage) aids you as well. The damage I listed is with a heavy investment in strength, and an optimized equipment setup (assasin's are my favorite class, so I don't mind using good jewels in the 3 socket nat's, 1 socket Guillame/s and 2 claws, and several skillers for prebuffing, and MA). Don't forget Demon Limb's enchant...

If you want to be more effective anywhere in the game, that PvP build gives you good Lihtning damage. I belive my build is slightly more effective with Dclone alone (Venom helps a ton, as monster heal is negated by OW, and both drain him relatively fast once CB loses its effectiveness after 7/8 life depletion).

EDIT: YES! thats the best part, fade's +skills give 1% PDR as well. SLVL 35=35% PDR.

[Econ201]

Well, I think i will follow the trap, DT guile, since the pvp guile don't really depends on CB, it depends on OW.

But itn's lion heart better than nat's amror?

What is your gear set up?

I am thinking that I may use fade instead of bos for DR.

[madman68]

Well, I think i will follow the trap, DT guile, since the pvp guile don't really depends on CB, it depends on OW.

But itn's lion heart better than nat's amror?

What is your gear set up?

I am thinking that I may use fade instead of bos for DR.

Lionheart has some great mods unlike Nat's. Nat's armor is only good if you have the entire set. You can build a better sin with individual pieces than use Nat's set.

[Julius Seizure]

Any armor will do, really. Lionheart is excellent.

All that matters is: Upgraded Gore Rider, Guillame's Face, and Dracul's Grasp. Those 3 items cover your OW and minimum CB requirements.

[Econ201]

Any armor will do, really. Lionheart is excellent.

All that matters is: Upgraded Gore Rider, Guillame's Face, and Dracul's Grasp. Those 3 items cover your OW and minimum CB requirements.


I am still thinking, if i follow the guile pvm which is trap with kick, I will miss DR or resist, +skills or CB or OW.

by the way, that guile skills point are about like this

20 DTalon
20 Venom
20 Charge bolt trap
20 lighting trap
20 death trap

I was thinking, something like this would help me survive better in DC.

20 DTalon
20 Venom
20 Fade
20 shadow master
20 death trap

they are actually different build, one use trap to do most killing and use Dtalon for boss killing. Another one use DTalon do first kill and use Death Trap to do the following kill.
The advandge of the first build is you don't have to click alot, since you are mostly a trapsin with DT for boss. But it is hard to achieve DR, resist, CB, OW, at the same time. Since if you take resist, you will get less DR. If you want both DR and resist at the same time, you will need to have less CB and OW.
The advandage of the second build is you can have DR resist easier, also have one more strong tank. But you have to click a lot since DTalon is not auto target.

I have been thinking, which build is better. if I have base fade, +14 skills (12 from claws 2 from amulet) you will still have 15lv fade, which is 15 DR, and this is with max resist, lighting absorb(t-god), cold absorb (raven frost)

The 12 skills from claws are +3shadow skills +3 fade *2 claws.

but then i was thinking if i give up lionheart and take shaft, I will have 50% DR, all I miss are 30 all resist, a lot of +stats. :scratch:

This is so hard to decide...anyone please help me.

[Julius Seizure]

Simplist answer is, Get:
Talon at SLVL 24 OR 30 with + skills (usually 16-20 hard skill points)
Have good resists.
DR isn't completely necessary, but helps.
Wear Dracul's, UpGed Gore, Guillames. Your choice on anything else.
Enough IAS or BoS for at least 4/3 (idealy 2) frame talon kicks.

For Dclone that is all that matters.

You're second build is basically what I use, except for the fact that with prereqs such a build is unrealistic (unless you REALLY want to level up past 85... and get to 98). Any traps you have will be for leveling only, as you will only use DT against the clone (Again, there is no time to stop leeching life, and sacrificing cb/OW for trap laying is a waste).

And what do you mean "click alot" with DT?- All I do is hold the button down on DCLONE and finish a glass of water.

SLVL 17 is enough for Shadow master, with +skills. My master tanks the clone at that lvl, and doesn't get hurt if she has fade on. (If you've ever played an IG necro you know what I mean). Read the Assasin Faqs to find out why.

Where did you get those claws, they are amazing, especially since u have 2 of them! (+12 fade)

[Econ201]

Simplist answer is, Get:
Talon at SLVL 24 OR 30 with + skills (usually 16-20 hard skill points)
Have good resists.
DR isn't completely necessary, but helps.
Wear Dracul's, UpGed Gore, Guillames. Your choice on anything else.
Enough IAS or BoS for at least 4/3 (idealy 2) frame talon kicks.

For Dclone that is all that matters.

You're second build is basically what I use, except for the fact that with prereqs such a build is unrealistic (unless you REALLY want to level up past 85... and get to 98). Any traps you have will be for leveling only, as you will only use DT against the clone (Again, there is no time to stop leeching life, and sacrificing cb/OW for trap laying is a waste).

And what do you mean "click alot" with DT?- All I do is hold the button down on DCLONE and finish a glass of water.

SLVL 17 is enough for Shadow master, with +skills. My master tanks the clone at that lvl, and doesn't get hurt if she has fade on. (If you've ever played an IG necro you know what I mean). Read the Assasin Faqs to find out why.

Where did you get those claws, they are amazing, especially since u have 2 of them! (+12 fade)

First of all...I just know they are exiting, but I don't have it :(

by "click alot" I mean when you are fighting a pack of monster, you have click everyone of them to kill everyone. but if you use trap build, you can just laid some traps and let them do their jobs.

But then again, I think this build is basicly for killing DC, so i think i will choose the 2nd build.

Which will be

Slv 24(or 25? for 5 kicks) DTalon
20 vemon
20 fade
20 Death trap
1 point in shadow master then add later.

I think this is ok build, since you have a little bit of lighting damge, also have CE damge which is fire and physical, and at the same time you have kick. with high DR, max resist, some absorb, 1k more hp, fastest attack speed with Dtalon, 50% weapon block (i think this is really needed, more important than DR), possible 8k AR.

Should be a good DC hunter :)

[Julius Seizure]

Break Points for talon kicking are at 6 (2 kicks), 12, 18, 24(5 kicks), 30(6 kicks).

As for PvM leveling, I use Gimmershreds on switch with whistan's guard. When you factor in Venom (and the enchant from Demon Limb) you have a hefty amount of 6 damage types aplied with 5-6 kicks (Cold, Fire, Lit, Poison, Physical Kick/CB, OW). THere is no immune that can resist you. It may take while in games with more than 4 players, but they will die.

Good luck, and check out the assasin forum stickies!

[Econ201]

Break Points for talon kicking are at 6 (2 kicks), 12, 18, 24(5 kicks), 30(6 kicks).

As for PvM leveling, I use Gimmershreds on switch with whistan's guard. When you factor in Venom (and the enchant from Demon Limb) you have a hefty amount of 6 damage types aplied with 5-6 kicks (Cold, Fire, Lit, Poison, Physical Kick/CB, OW). THere is no immune that can resist you. It may take while in games with more than 4 players, but they will die.

Good luck, and check out the assasin forum stickies!

actually i read almost all the sticky that related to my question already.
I think 30lv is alittle hard to achieve, but it is achieve able. claws can get 5 slv, amulet get 2, all we need is 3 more from charms.

Itsn't that duel bactucs is better than gimmershreds with whistan's guard?

[Julius Seizure]

Gimmershred is on weapon switch only for physical immunes when playing in hell. With that item, you can pretty much solo the entire game (although I still fear Gloams, well not that much thanks to Cloak of Shadows). Normal weapons should of course be 2xBartucs, or Bartucs+Jade Talon.

I also use this build to rune hunt, with CoS, MB, Fade and an amzing tank in Master, you can go anywhere. She is definately my most versatile and durable character so far. Your skills plus Gimmershreds gives you a 6 damage type attack, and CoS grants AI abilities, while MB stuns, and Master tanks.

Holy Freeze merc with slow gear helps too.

[Econ201]

Gimmershred is on weapon switch only for physical immunes when playing in hell. With that item, you can pretty much solo the entire game (although I still fear Gloams, well not that much thanks to Cloak of Shadows). Normal weapons should of course be 2xBartucs, or Bartucs+Jade Talon.

I also use this build to rune hunt, with CoS, MB, Fade and an amzing tank in Master, you can go anywhere. She is definately my most versatile and durable character so far. Your skills plus Gimmershreds gives you a 6 damage type attack, and CoS grants AI abilities, while MB stuns, and Master tanks.

Holy Freeze merc with slow gear helps too.


why not use the ward for addiction resist, but use whisp guard?

[Econ201]

I just took a look at the frame table.

It needs 54%IAS to reach 7/2/2/2/2/2 attack speed, if I don't use bos.

How do you reach that?

I was thinking using shael+sheal in both weapon, and one more ias jewel in the helm. that's still only 45, needs 9 more.

so i wonder where are the reminder from.

Thx

[Julius Seizure]

You might want to start posting in the assasin forums, but here is a quick (kinda long) answer-

Regarding IAS: I use cat's eye, Shael socket in my Bartucs, and several 15 IAS jewels (now you can see the usefulnes of a 3 socket Nat's vs other armor debate- with Nat's and Guillame's I get 4 sockets to work with as well as useful mods). The reason I use this is because WSMs are averaged for dual claws when kicking (according to testing by Assassin Forum Members), and more IAS is needed for the averaged speed of Tucs and Jade Talon.

If Dual wielding 2xBartucs, 54% IAS is needed ( I believe you are right), But with Jade Talon more is needed, as it's base WSM is is -10 instead of -30 (Bartucs). So your base WSM is -20 with the Bartucs/Jade Talon... not -30.

Also, off weapon IAS is useless- so don't socket your second claw with a shael and use a good jewel/rune offering strength or resists-treat this socket like a shield. Basically, the weapon equipped second or in the right slot (as you look at the screen) benefits only from base Weapon speed. External IAS/weapon IAS doesn't matter. By socketing 2 shaels in your weapons you are still only getting 20% IAS.

You have 20% so far, look to jewels and/or Ammulets for IAS- (Remember, gloves & helm are mandated as Guillames and Dracul's grasp- that's 15% IAS with a jewel in the helm only, 20% from Shaeled Tucs as primary weapon). Several Belts also offer IAS! Look at them for 10% if needed.

Looks like you'll only have 35% ias if you use your Lion Heart armor and a +skills ammy- good enough... but missing the elusive 2 frame attack.


Question #2-
The ward is fine I guess. I prefer using a PDiamond Whistans, which gives my character over 50 resists and a little over 50% block in hell (which is a nice average on weapon swich IMO). You will have little block% if you use the Ward, but max resists- its your call.