All things Classic! [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

Orphan

05-11-2004, 01:42

I just wanted to post the answers to some questions that have already been asked. I've quoted the people who answered the questions, to give them credit for the answer:

Can the 'Cruel' mod be spawned in Classic?

Sry to bring the bad news but no cruel prefix in classic. You're best bet is to try and get to a high enough lvl and try to imbue a rare wep and hope for king's merciless mods.

Can Body Armor's in Classic have sockets?

armor cannot be socketed in classic, unless using the soj + 3 pskull cube recipe

Just to confirm, helmets and shield can have sockets.

Is it possible to rush a character through classic and convert him to expansion, to do hell forge runs?

... create a rusher, he needs to complete 10 acts in a D2 classic game (act 2 in hell completed) and then you convert him to an expansion character. When you do that he will be on the start of act 1 in hell expansion (when converting the game counts how much acts finished). Important: do not do hell forge runs in classic because no runes there and you will ruin the whole point.

Basically, if you get a level 1 character up to and past act 2 on hell difficulty, on classic, and then convert him/her to expansion, they should be in act 1 on hell mode, ready to be rushed up to forge.

Are there still immunities on hell (for sorc's to contend with)?

...there are immunities so if you're a sorc and you plan on playing hell, you must go dual tree. Otherwise you can't clear everything. On the plus side, the minus resistances aren't as high in classic but it is still hard to get the full maxed out res without decently good gear.

Are there any items with charges or 'chance to strike' in classic?

You won't find any items with charges or chance to strike in classic

If I make a ladder character on classic, and convert it to expansion, will it still be ladder?

Yes it will still be ladder. I've only tried it a few times, and all times they have not converted to non-ladder.

Is it possible to find SOJ's on classic ladder, and then convert them to expansion and still have the SOJ's?

It is indeed possible to find a stone of jordan on classic. Because of the fact that there are only 3 possible unique rings, some believe it is easier to find them on classic than on expansion.

I only read one post that seemed to indicate it wasn't possible. However, I've done a few tests and all characters converted to expansion have retained their items, so I have to believe that it is possible to transfer SOJ's from classic, to expansion.

Are there charms or runes in classic?

There are no charms and runes on classic diablo. Hellforge cannot drop runes on classic, so if you are rushing characters through classic to get the forge, do not do the forge quests until you have converted the characters to expansion.

-Tempus-

05-11-2004, 06:04

Several members have had an interest in Diablo Classic.

and some of us never gave it up 100% when LOD came out :scratch:

oh maybe it would be a good idea to post links to all the other D2C threads.

-Tempus-

vdzele

06-11-2004, 12:16

Aragorn if you don't mind I will copy/paste my post about hell forge rushes(corrected some sentences) since classic is interested because of this. Also added some diferences between classic and LOD at the bottom

I have two copies of d2 with different cd keys and they are installed in two separate directories (install first in one then you rename that one, then you install the second copy). The trick is playing in a classic d2. Make two high level characters in a classic d2 realm (not expansion), I suggest frozen orb –fire ball sorc and a hammerdin. They are both similar in gear usage, and they are IMO best choice for a fast rush. Optimal level for both 65-70. Then create a rushee, he needs to complete 10 acts in a D2 classic game (act 2 in hell completed) and then you convert him to an expansion character. When you do that he will be on the start of act 3 in hell expansion (when converting the game counts how much acts finished). Important: do not do hell forge runs in classic because no runes there and you will ruin the whole point.

Why two high level characters. Because it’s from my experience an optimal solution. I use hammerdin only for Act 2 in hell: claw viper temple, arcane sanctuary and Duriel. In these parts sorc is useless. For everything else I use my sorc.

Act 1: the rushee needs to be close to the place of the boss killing – Andariel (1-1.5 screens away, this goes for any boss killing except duriel). I suggest you place him in the first room in the upper left corner and wait their. Get Andy to the lower right corner of her chamber.

Act 2: collect the staff and the amulet for your rushee. He needs to pick them and cube them. In arcane he must be close when you kill the summoner. Sometimes you need to talk with the people in town to go on. When killing Duriel rushee doesn’t need to enter the chamber, you can kill duriel with your high level characters and open the door to the quest angel. In the quest log of the rushee it will say quest could not be completed (when sorc /paly kills duriel), ignore that, enter the chamber and talk to the angel.

Act 3: teleport your sorc behind of the council – temple, clear the area, open tp for the rushee and place him their. Nearest and the safest place for him. Teleport in to the temple and kick-***. When doing meph run your rushee may be killed (if he is to close), when that happens, DON’T press Esc button (let him lay down) and just continue with the killing. But the rushee must be close when you kill the boss.

Act 4: same thing like with Mephisto. Don’t press Esc when killed.

For playing with two copies you need a special file to place in your installation dir: D2gfx.dll. Google it. 1.09 version works of this file also works for 1.10.

If you want to pass baal in a expansion game, you need to be in a game were a character has to complete ancients and baal in the same game for the quest. So he needs to complete the ancients for the quest (a character who finished this quest can help and kill them all here) and after that he must do Baal kill for the quest (a character who finished this quest can help but he must NOT kill Baal). Your level 1 rushee should be in the town and joined in. This is much complicated way to do hellforge rushes (ancients and baal in one game is tough to find). So I do the classic trick. I took a cd-key from my friend, when i play he doesn't, when he plays I don't or we play both. One cd-key may be logged on Bnet.

-Classic doesn’t have Act 5
-Classic doesn’t have charms and runes (runewords as well)
-Maximum negative resistance in classic is -50% (hell mode, think this goes for monsters too)
-Synergies work in classic, latest skill improvements as well.
-Chance of blocking from your shield = your chance of blocking (dex no required)
-No exceptional or elite uniques in classic (only normal uniques)
-No white / blue elite items (only exceptional and normal)
-Only Classic set items (No Tals, IK’s, Griswold’s …)
-Only classic Horadric cube recipes
-You can not equip your merc, transport him between acts and heal him via keybord
-No socketed items in classic (though you can socket a item with a recipe mentioned above)
-Classic stash (much smaller then expansion)
-No crafted recipes

A_S_G

06-11-2004, 22:50

Basically, if you get a level 1 character up to and past act 2 on hell difficulty, on classic, and then convert him/her to expansion, they should be in act 1 on hell mode, ready to be rushed up to forge.

They need to be in Act III Hell. That sentence might confuse some people, just wanting to clear some things up. :lol:

-Tempus-

07-11-2004, 01:10

-No socketed items in classic (though you can socket a item with a recipe mentioned above)

upto 6 sockets weapons, upto 3 socket helms, upto 3 socket shields

i also do all my socket/forge rushing in D2C but i never do the quests in act2, i still use tomb mules.

-Tempus-

Cooked

07-11-2004, 02:26

I do some classic mule rushing. If you want to convert after normal rather than waiting for hell (beacuse my rusher isn't strong enough yet, for hell acts one and 2) you can convert the minute you reach act 2 nightmare. You do NOT need to complete act 2 nightmare if converting after normal. For Hell Nightmare you Do need to complete act 2 Hell as has been said by earlier posters.

Beast place to find SoJ? NM Anderial. There are fewer types of things to drop so there is a much greater likleyhood for SoJ. It still a rare thing to find that silly ring, even so.

Inu

08-11-2004, 08:21

Let's limit let perfection of Classic D2 to one thread, yay! ;/ *sigh*

th5418

08-11-2004, 08:30

Let's limit let perfection of Classic D2 to one thread, yay! ;/ *sigh*
Hahaha, I believe this is a little constricting. I know there are fewer players on Classic but come on Gorny.

Gorny

09-11-2004, 04:56

Hahaha, I believe this is a little constricting. I know there are fewer players on Classic but come on Gorny.

It wasn't my idea really, Elly suggested it to me.

Depending on how this thread works out, Classic MIGHT, No promises get a forum of its own, possibly a subforum somewhere, and the current mods will keep an eye on it.

-Tempus-

09-11-2004, 06:02

btw i play D2Classic on USWest SC NL

Here are links to many of the D2Classic threads/thread starter

Classic WW Lancer :D (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=274056) slipVaYnE

Are Monsters Stronger in LOD? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=270042) Stoopid_NewB

Some classic questions (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=264765) Orphan

Classic Hell Forge Rush group? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=262525) ZygFryD

Classic D2 and the "Cruel" mod (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=265509) Terrorwind

How to best play a meteorb sorc in Classic? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=261913) Fireflyx76

Diablo II Classic, differences? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=260531) NovaBurst

Classic Conversion and Thorns? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=238850) Dark_Angel

D2C help (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=260359) baal48

Worth creating Classic char for rushes? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=259085) Legolasi

Classic Questions (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=247643) Terrorwind

Test my CLASSIC FOH build (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=177588) The_One

Classic HC Hamemerdin Gear (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=116526) TheRebel22

these go back to Dec '03 but the ones i know of that are older then that dont work. since i dont read all the forums i'm sure i missed many good posts, so if you know of anymore that still work add them to the list.

-Tempus-

theBlackKnight

10-11-2004, 04:57

On classic mode, Static field will take any non lightning immunes down to 1 health point With enough casts. Orb + 10-15 static = quick easy kills.

Cooked

10-11-2004, 06:05

On classic mode, Static field will take any non lightning immunes down to 1 health point With enough casts. Orb + 10-15 static = quick easy kills.
I did not know that...thanks.

j1mb0x99

10-11-2004, 14:55

Yay! A classic area. Even though half the posts deal w/ forge rushing for lod :\ I started a paladin the other day. Having never done a hammerdin yet and seeing that they rock now I thought I would give that a try. I checked out the thread above, but it turned up empty. Anyone have any suggestions for stats. How much energy will i need? Should I touch dex at all?
Also does anyone know how high I should take my necro's strength for gear?
On a side note, since I restarted playing I have noticed that alot more rares drop, but fewer sets and uniques. Is this normal or am I just unlucky so far?
Hit me back with some replies!
-JiM (*jim_is_back on useast ladder sc)

WebDragon

10-11-2004, 17:26

-Tempus-

10-11-2004, 17:28

for the hammerdin it depends on what you will use for items.
silk takes 100 str to use
shard takes 51 dex to use
a tower shield takes 75 str
if you can try and get str/dex off some items so you can keep your str around 60 base and base dex (dont need dex for block)
energy can be a pain in d2c, if you dont have 2 sojs or mana items or a 3 gem helm(114 mana or life) you may need to drop more points into energy. 50-100 is all you need most of the time. if you go with a build that has 75% fcr vs 50% or lower you may need more mana.

on the necro its the same thing as the paladin. if you use silk you'll want 100 str after items. 75 str to use a gemmed tower shield, no dex. going with a min of 45-60 str on the necro will let you use most items you would want for a necro. also if your build is going to be a caster then you'll need much more mana then one that doesnt cast as much.

sets vs rares: rares are better then just about anything you can get. there are also so few sets/uniqs in D2C that they may seem to drop less. run andy and the highcouncil and you'll find a lot of stuff. i was looking for tarn helms a few nights ago so i was running normal highcouncil and get 3 sig shields after only ~15 mins. they are junk to me but you can trade them fast for p skulls or other low lev stuff you may need.

-Tempus-

j1mb0x99

10-11-2004, 22:08

thanks for the replies. I have barely played lod so consider it non-existant to me, I can't stand it. I just couldn't remember the higher end requirements cause I haven't played since 1.10 came out. However, I had been playing since 1.04 so I still remember a few things...

Anyone have any good builds that they wanna share? My favorite was a 1.09 magezon. Specialized in immolation arrow and freezing arrow. I remember trading for all the equipment and being asked "why would you want that? your a zon" I just laughed and said "You'll see..."

-JiM

-Tempus-

12-11-2004, 02:26

Legolasi

13-11-2004, 02:07

i also do all my socket/forge rushing in D2C but i never do the quests in act2, i still use tomb mules.

-Tempus-

What do you mean with tomb mules?

MithrandirX

13-11-2004, 05:12

What do you mean with tomb mules?
Tomb mules are a set of characters (one each in normal, nm and hell) that have been rushed to Duriel, opened the tomb, but not killed him yet. That way, when the rushee gets to act2, a new game is made by the tomb mule, and the tomb is already open so you dont have to collect all the pesky pieces.

Im not sure if they still work in 1.1, but they were an integral part of the 15 minute hell rush back in the day.

-Tempus-

13-11-2004, 07:10

Im not sure if they still work in 1.1, but they were an integral part of the 15 minute hell rush back in the day.

they do still work but just not as well as they use to per 1.10

-Tempus-

Serotonine

14-11-2004, 01:43

they do still work but just not as well as they use to per 1.10

-Tempus-
In 1.10 you still have to collect the Viper Amulet and kill the Summoner when you have a Duriel mule so you only avoid getting the staff from the Maggot Lair. Still a slight speed up.

1) Mule creates game and notes the symbol on quest 6.

2) Rusher enters game and goes to the tomb with the right symbol. I'm not sure if rusher has to enther the tomb to "freeze" the tomb or just has to go to the last waypoint.

3) Mule leaves game. If mule leaves game before the tomb is "frozen" rusher will probably enter the wrong tomb and the mule has to create another game.

4) Rusher finds and kills Duriel.

5) The rushed character enters game, parties with the rusher, goes to Duriels chamber and talks to the angel to complete act 2. The rushed character can only go through the town portal to Duriels chamber if he has killed the Summoner, and to enter the Arcane Sanctuary to kill the Summoner the rushed character needs to have at least the Viper Amulet.

I hope I got all the details correct.

-Tempus-

14-11-2004, 03:12

In 1.10 you still have to collect the Viper Amulet and kill the Summoner when you have a Duriel mule so you only avoid getting the staff from the Maggot Lair. Still a slight speed up.

1) Mule creates game and notes the symbol on quest 6.

2) Rusher enters game and goes to the tomb with the right symbol. I'm not sure if rusher has to enther the tomb to "freeze" the tomb or just has to go to the last waypoint.

3) Mule leaves game. If mule leaves game before the tomb is "frozen" rusher will probably enter the wrong tomb and the mule has to create another game.

4) Rusher finds and kills Duriel.

5) The rushed character enters game, parties with the rusher, goes to Duriels chamber and talks to the angel to complete act 2. The rushed character can only go through the town portal to Duriels chamber if he has killed the Summoner, and to enter the Arcane Sanctuary to kill the Summoner the rushed character needs to have at least the Viper Amulet.

I hope I got all the details correct.

thats one way of doing them but there are 2 other ways.

the first way is to have a tomb mule that has done all the quests in act2 but still hasnt killed duriel. i use this one for chars that i lev up in act2 and already have the last wp. they get that wp by joining a game where they can walk down and pick up the palace/arcane wps. then they clear the arcane untill they are around lev 22. when i'm ready to move them on to act3 i'll use the tomb mule to make a game and have them dbl check what tomb it is. after that i'll bring in a high lev char to clear a path to the tomb and kill duriel. that char will leave and the mule will join the game and run down to the tomb and finsh the quest. this works best if you only have 1 pc and are doing the quests solo

the 2nd way is fastest and works best with 2 pc or you have help doing the rush. the tomb mule does all the quest and has the tomb open "but they didnt do the Summoner" you need to save that for the char to be rushed. in this game the guards will let you pass on your way to the palace. you run down the left side of the map untill you get to lev3 and get down to the arcane. once the mule has that wp the rusher (sorc) teleports to find the summoner, once found they clear the way back to the middle so the mule can run to the summoner without a death. this will also let them take a tp down to the tomb. once the rusher find duriels chamber they make a tp and then go in and kill him. once he is dead the mule goes in, the rusher then leaves the game and brings in a 2nd mule. this 2nd char will still get the quest while in town since the mule down in the chamber is doing the quest (2 for the price/time of one)

-Tempus-

Legolasi

14-11-2004, 09:31

the 2nd way is fastest and works best with 2 pc or you have help doing the rush. the tomb mule does all the quest and has the tomb open "but they didnt do the Summoner" you need to save that for the char to be rushed. in this game the guards will let you pass on your way to the palace. you run down the left side of the map untill you get to lev3 and get down to the arcane. once the mule has that wp the rusher (sorc) teleports to find the summoner, once found they clear the way back to the middle so the mule can run to the summoner without a death. this will also let them take a tp down to the tomb. once the rusher find duriels chamber they make a tp and then go in and kill him. once he is dead the mule goes in, the rusher then leaves the game and brings in a 2nd mule. this 2nd char will still get the quest while in town since the mule down in the chamber is doing the quest (2 for the price/time of one)

-Tempus-

Thanx, I'm going to try that.

Can anyone tell me on which level I can go to NM and Hell? And which places are the most efficient to level?

-Tempus-

14-11-2004, 10:47

Thanx, I'm going to try that.

Can anyone tell me on which level I can go to NM and Hell? And which places are the most efficient to level?

just count how many acts you finsh. to start nm LOD you need to have finshed 5 acts in D2C. to start hell LOD you need to finsh 10 D2C acts. the thing is if you convert them too soon the quests you did in the higher act in D2C will still be done when you get to that lev game in LOD.

where you lev depends on your lev, if you can kill solo in full games, if you are just going to leech exp, what you have for items....

i'll lev most of my chars solo in 8ppl games (pk games or cows) any game that will stay full for a long time. then i'll run off and kill stuff close to my char's lev.
lev 1-12 to 14 act1
lev 12-16 sewers act2
lev 14-24 arcane act2
lev 24-27 flayer
lev 25-35 cows
dont like to kill normal d untill +30

after that i like to lev in nm arcane or sometimes nm cows. or i'll just keep running around in act4 nm untill i want to move on to hell.

you shouldnt be in a rush to do hell games unless your char is strong. often you can gain exp faster in nm games then you can by trying to find cow or CS games in hell. in the time it takes for people to get the leg and make the portal you could have made half a lev of exp.

the sad thing about D2C at high levs is all ppl seem to do are CS runs. where a sorc ports to the middle makes a tp and ppl come down and die about 20x :scratch: were you can get more exp if you kill all the monsters without any deaths. most of the time you end up with low lev chars that just run monsters around untill d is out.... the joys of D2C co-op :rant:

-Tempus-

Inu

14-11-2004, 17:33

The good thing about classic is that its much easier to plan your gear ahead of time since classic items are about 1/3 of the stuff available in LoD, maybe even less.

The best end-game weapons, armor, amulets, and even helms would be exceptional rares. A good ornate plate with high ed and a big chunk of - reqs is highly coveted. For weapons, you'd be mainly looking at battlehammers for 1hd and lances for 2hd. A godly one would have 150+ ed and some ias. For amulets, the best would be +2 skills, good stat bonus, and some resists. However, the +2 skill ammys are rare enough to be great finds and very valuable even with no good mods on them.

The uniques can plug the spots for gloves, belts (somewhat), and boots (again, somewhat). Your bread and butter unique armors are Silks of the Victor and Goldskin. No one in classic that would consider him/herself rich would get by without having a few of these.

Bottom Line: The highest strength you'll ever need is 170 for ornate plate. A good number would be about 100 for melee characters, less for casters. I suggest that you don't bother trying to boost your stats through equipment, since you can't get that much of a boost compared to LoD and you'll be losing out on valuable spots for resistances.

Funny, that I long ago suggested Classic to get it's own forum many times. And at that time it was more popular on these forums too. Tss tss...

Classic got 1/3 of the LoD items? Perhaps but even so classic got infintely more variety than LoD when it comes to items.

Lances for 2h? Any 'good' player knows that Martels are the ultimate 2hander in both PvP and PvM since the damage is insanely high and the range is 3! (used to be 1 back in the day)

When I played Classic I had top-notch items and I never bothered to pick Goldskin or Silks up even when I started (except in the very beginning, 2000 :P)

And if you intend to PvP (BvB is most popular) you'll need around 300~ STR. With 170 you can barely even PvM >_<

And if you aim at a say, Life Exec Barb you should reach the 170 str 110 dex with items. You can get str and dex on all pieces of equipment. My most successful Barb was using a full req Exec but had about 95/85 in base str/dex :)

Sorceresses and Amazons etc unfortunately gets all their resistance need from Irathas set. Kinda sad how the non-diversity from LoD spread to classic =(

Network

15-11-2004, 14:51

Was just wondering what u guys thaught was the best items for a sorc for classic? i'm making a ORB/ES sorc and probly only dueling. :uhhuh:

-Tempus-

15-11-2004, 17:08

it depends, do you want one item setup for everyone or do you want an item setup for each char class you fight.

vs a barb or most melee builds an all +skill setup would be best but 75% block would also be great if you are slow on teleport.

vs a FOH pal you would need all resist lightning items
vs an orb sorc an all resist cold build would be best
vs other elemental attacks going with 90%toall would work very well

-Tempus-

theBlackKnight

15-11-2004, 17:42

Versus cold you can just chug a few thaw's >_<.

Faster cast = better caster char for the most part since there isnt much to add to skills, the only way to really add damage is to do more of it in the same amount of time.

Legolasi

16-11-2004, 08:51

I saw the "Darkness site" is a bit outdated, is there another place to find the monsterlevels for classic? I suppose they aren't the same as in LoD? :scratch:

Thanx,

Legolasi

Inu

16-11-2004, 16:25

Monster levels in classic are simple. From level 1 fallens to level 32 Urdars. Just add +25 to each monster for each difficulty. That makes Fallens level 51 and Urdars level 82 >_< Diablo is level 90 in hell.

Classics

17-11-2004, 06:45

Little blurb:

Resistances in dueling some people don't even bother getting each individual resists to 75 (mainly speeders only do this), instead they rely on individual tri socketed resist shields. Mainly just 3 Saph, 3 Topaz, 3 Ruby shields. Personnally, I'd rather have 65 all then 75 for one.

It's a possible output for resists, but it's really up to you.

Inu

17-11-2004, 16:01

Because it's better to use one high res depending on what you face. At least if you face a Cold Sorceress your cold resist will stack beyond the MAX so it's much more beneficial to use a 3 PSaph shield instead of a 3 PDia shield.

slipVaYnE

18-11-2004, 06:21

Ah...I've been lookin for the old D2 Classic forum for some time now, and i just happened to browse in this area, and found this, haha...me likey. I suppose once i get to work on my lancer i'll have some questions..but until then, THANKS for this thread :D

skihard

18-11-2004, 13:03

kobrakai[UK]

18-11-2004, 14:08

1. I think so, that is very it is very hard leveling up in the 80's.

2.If you kill duriel in Hell, go to act 3 and then convert to LOD your mule will be in act 3 hell in LOD.

There are 2 reasons to do this: First it is easier to kill the council in LOD than in classic, and 2nd if you convert to LOD before getting to act 3 your mule will be in Act 4 Nightmare. Also there is no need to kill diablo Hell for your mule as you only need him to be in act 4 Hell to be able to do the forge quest.

kobrakai[UK]

18-11-2004, 14:30

Some more handy links in relation to classic:

Classic affix and suffix list: http://diablo2.ingame.de/spiel/expansion/itemdb/affix_index.php?lang=en&version=d2c&patch=110

Inu

18-11-2004, 16:15

Exp panelties kicks in at level 76>81>86>91>98

j1mb0x99

18-11-2004, 17:40

the exp penalty is rediculous for classic. especially since you rarely saw a lvl 99 even in 1.09. I wish they would have left that part out of 1.10 for classic.

-Tempus-

18-11-2004, 17:55

ok so my turn for a question, well actually 2 quesions.

1. Is the exp penality still in place above lvl 70 in Classic?

2. If you get your mule past Duriel in hell shouldn't you just take it past Diablo also so that once you convert to LOD you are in act3 so you don't have to go through the Duriel quest again in LOD? I mean act 2 is the most complicated act to rush a mule through and I would think it best to avoid it doing it again if possible.

*and a little note that just may be something only I experience but, I'll say it anyhow and leave it to another to correct. Flawless gems (used to make perfs) seem to drop at a much higher rate in Classic (Act3 NM on) than they do in LOD.

like the others have said you need to count the # of acts finshed to know where you will start when the chars goto lod. lets say you did all the quests in act2 hell but didnt kill duriel. when you move that char to lod it will start in nm but once you kill nm baal and take them to a hell game all the quests you did in D2C hell are still done. all you need to do is go kill duriel.

as to why would want to convert before D2C hell diablo is killed: well since after you kill hell duriel you will start off in lod hell. its often faster to rush them in lod after that since chars are so much stronger then in D2C. also you may want to do hell high council, meph, diablo in LOD for the drops.

gems do drop all the time in D2C. there are less items to drop so they do seem to drop a lot more then in LOD. i use to convert a char a week full of perfect gems (- the skulls)

-Tempus-

Inu

18-11-2004, 18:01

the exp penalty is rediculous for classic. especially since you rarely saw a lvl 99 even in 1.09. I wish they would have left that part out of 1.10 for classic.

lol? The 76/81/86/91/98 penalties went into to play the day D2 was released and it is one of the reaons why Classic is so extremely fun.

In LoD you go 1-90 in one day and spend a few weeks to get a few levels... It's better than the 17-hours-level-99 in 1.09 but still sucks. Too many people can become 99 ;/

99 should be a non-human goal. It would make the ladders function much better and provide much more fun. I remember fondly the GERBarb/RUSBarb race. That was fun. No one made level 99 alone in Classic. That's how it should be.

-Tempus-

18-11-2004, 18:03

Classic WW Lancer :D (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=274056) slipVaYnE

Are Monsters Stronger in LOD? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=270042) Stoopid_NewB

Some classic questions (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=264765) Orphan

Classic Hell Forge Rush group? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=262525) ZygFryD

Classic D2 and the "Cruel" mod (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=265509) Terrorwind

How to best play a meteorb sorc in Classic? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=261913) Fireflyx76

Diablo II Classic, differences? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=260531) NovaBurst

Classic Conversion and Thorns? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=238850) Dark_Angel

D2C help (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=260359) baal48

Worth creating Classic char for rushes? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=259085) Legolasi

Classic Questions (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=247643) Terrorwind

Test my CLASSIC FOH build (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=177588) The_One

Classic HC Hamemerdin Gear (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=116526) TheRebel22

Classic Sorc (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=275780) Damnatorius

Classic build suggestions? (http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=278572) Arctic_Fox

TheCerberus

19-11-2004, 02:15

Where can I find a cheap, easy Classic PvP build?
Let's introduce the Classic Speeder Barbarian! Designed to kill Elemental characters with ease, and keep pace with almost all players...

To get 85 resists in hell with Iratha's, you need 135 resists. Under Conviction, you need 285. I guess you're right though, since Shout only needs 1 point, you can dump all the rest into IS and NR. I'd max IS though, since speed from skills is better than speed from items. Resists are the same all the way through.

Weapon: Rare Naga (Imbue at lvl 74), Rare Ancient Axe (Imbue at lvl 74), 2X+2 Barbarian Hatchets
Armor = Blinkbat's Form, Hawkmail, Twitch
Helm = Iratha's Coil, 3-Ruby Crown
Gloves = Iratha's Cuff
Belt = Iratha's Cord, Rare Belt with Life
Amulet = Iratha's Collar, Angelic Wings
Rings = 2XCoral Ring, 2XCobalt, 2X Angelic Raiment
Shield = 3-Topaz Kite Shield, 3-Saphire Kite Shield, 3-Diamond Kite Shield, Swordback Hold
Boots: Rares with 30 FRW, any other mods
Extras: Horadric Cube, Tome of Town Portal, Tome of Identify

1 Point Each: Bash, Leap, Stun, Leap Attack, Concentrate, Increased Stamina, Iron Skin, Howl, Shout, Battle Command
20 Points Each: Whirlwind, Axe Mastery, Increased Speed, Battle Orders
Rest: Natural Resists

That'd probably be the perfect and cheapest set-up. Kite Shields are the best shields to put gems in because they are light weight, so you keep your speed up. Nagas are useful because if you decide to BvB or melee, your range 3 will be able to stick right outside of your opponent and damage them.

j1mb0x99

19-11-2004, 03:58

@inu... i'm pretty sure that classic did not have as steep of a leveling penalty as it does until 1.10. I am not a power gamer, i just play to have fun.. always have, always will. I have never gotten a char up to lvl 99. I think the closest I have ever come is 88. What I meant by the above is that I wish they had made a custom patch for classic.

Unrelated question: Does a barb's find item skill ever find rares, uniques, or sets? Or is it always magical? And does it use the corpse's item lvl for the item it drops? Cause I'm thinking about just making a scavenger barb.

-JiM

-Tempus-

19-11-2004, 04:36

Unrelated question: Does a barb's find item skill ever find rares, uniques, or sets? Or is it always magical? And does it use the corpse's item lvl for the item it drops? Cause I'm thinking about just making a scavenger barb.

-JiM

the % on the FI skill is the chance a monster will drop a 2nd time. its just like killing them again. if they do drop a 2nd time your MF and goldfind is used on what drops. this skill works best on champ class monsters or higher since they can all drop more then 1 item. its also why runing the highcouncil can get you so many drops.

all my mf and goldfind barbs in D2C, LOD, SC, HC max the FI skill and they all are setup to kill while using their full setup. making one that needs someone to coop with all the time also works but isnt needed if the char is made right.

-Tempus-

Inu

19-11-2004, 07:40

-Tempus-

19-11-2004, 13:05

High levels should not be achievable for casual gamers. The more you play, the bigger the reward. You don't become a professional tennis player by playing 2 hours on the weekends.

And yes, Classic always been as hard to level up in.

you can lev any char very fast if you know where they will get the most exp for their lev. its just things start to slow down fast in d2c. the main reason you'll see very high lev chars in d2c now is you have more and more people doing CS runs (just for d) in under 2 mins. in the good old days you'd clear all of act4 then finsh off d or start at lower river and clear everything to d. the highest lev chars would often just do lower river if they had an exp shrine.

its too bad that all ppl do now is run for d and dont kill anything but the monsters at the seals. oh boy is that fun...

-Tempus-

Inu

19-11-2004, 21:35

Yeah. I truly hate the 'Enchant from level 1 and you're level 60 in a jiffy'. I remember how great the accomplishment felt when you hit level 30 with your Barbarian after hours of exping. Then you started Whirling! Just to find out you mistakely put that skill point in Natural Resist instead... :) Man I miss it. I remember when River of Flame used to be crowded. Aww that was so much fun... Now it's all routine bleh :( My friend (I think #1 or #2 or so D2C HC Europe ladder) has played 5-6 hours a day without a single break for soon 5 years. I can't see how he finds it fun still. He is one of those who does 1-2 min Dia runs ad infinitum. I just don't get where the fun is.. ;p

TheCerberus

20-11-2004, 01:30

Anyone want to discuss classic PvP? I want to know what you find hard, what you use against certain characters, so on...

-Tempus-

20-11-2004, 05:47

Anyone want to discuss classic PvP? I want to know what you find hard, what you use against certain characters, so on...

humm pvp in D2C :scratch: can you say dupes dupes and more dupes. if you can find legit ppl to fight you can have a lot of fun but in public its a joke. all you hear is you are a noob if die to someone using dupes.

most of the time your PC speed and net lag will have more to do with if you win then if you are good or not.

different builds builds that you'll find in D2C
necro:
BS with bonewalls sometimes IM. often will have 75% fcr
barbs:
ww not many will go with conc/zerk
high str builds for bvb or high vit builds for all others
speed builds vs range attackers
weapon/shield (75%block)
amz:
LF or other lightning attacks
pal:
smite
charge
FOH
BH
zeal used sometimes
sorc:
orb
meteor
blizzard
dont see many lightning builds

i was doing some dmg tests with my orb/sf sorc vs a barb and pal of mine. i wanted to see how much dmg i would take with higher and higher resist to cold in hell games. sorc was using 28orb/mastery max icebolt
1653 life lost on barb with -10% in hell (40% total)
1330 life lost on barb with 72% in hell (122% total)
545 life lost on pal with 85%max cold 107% in hell (157% total)
295 life lost on pal with 85%max cold 175% in hell (225% total)
153 life lost on pal with 95%max cold 291% in hell (341% total)
51 life lost on pal with 95%max cold 351% in hell (401% total)

-tempus-

Inu

20-11-2004, 06:06

If you want PvP then go HC... That's so ultimate fun...

TheCerberus

20-11-2004, 16:29

Yeah, so everyone I fight in HC can chicken. No, thanks.

Classic ladder PvP is free of dupes, and I don't see NL dupes as being that bad. Yes, most of them are top-notch rares, but you can easily compete with legit rares in most cases. BvB would be harder, but Casters and such can compete fine.

Inu

20-11-2004, 17:28

Chicken? Not really... Classic HC is not too large so everyone who plays alot basically knows everyone. If you chicken, use dupes etc you will be hated and not be able to play in teams or run the risk of getting trapped etc :p

tarzanell

23-11-2004, 05:38

Inu

23-11-2004, 12:11

The West and East Classic HC communities are both smaller than Europe and more duped up too :(

-Tempus-

23-11-2004, 12:59

The West and East Classic HC communities are both smaller than Europe and more duped up too :(

the dupes would be all NL right? or have they found a way to still dupe on ladder?

what i was talking about pvp dupes that was SC NL West. seems the only items ask for in trade games are all dupes. you may be lucky and fine some great legit rares but many will still call them junk since all they want are those dupes. you also can find some people that think of old dupes as D2C's version of LOD uniqs/godly items :scratch: they arent very smart

-Tempus-

Inu

23-11-2004, 21:00

There's never been a public duping method but there indeed exist private ones on the ladder.

Taft12

25-11-2004, 12:42

-Tempus-

25-11-2004, 14:43

I'm hesitant to ask this since discussing hacks and dupes is very taboo on this board, but what the heck is the difference between public and private duping?

My next question is, does anyone know what Normal Mephisto's level is in Classic? I am having great success gathering some tradeable stuff like Sigons and better uniques and each run is usually under a minute. What qlvl items will he not cough up? I know I'm not going to get Silks but can I get Shard (qlvl 34)?

private duping could be open chars or single player, not sure
i only have 1 ladder char and that happens to be a D2C sc sorc over on euro. so when i was talking about dupes they are the ones on uswest sc nl and i think most of those are per lod ones. i often join trade or pk games to lev in (since they stay open for a long time) about the only items they ask for or even talk about are all dupes with the odd legit tosses in. since these items are so old i'd think someone can still dupe them and if they can do it in nl i'd guess they can do it in ladder.

whats so funny about all that is when you join a game like that and tell them you're looking for legit items they call you a newbie because you cant afford "godly items" i guess i just find it funny that some people are just so bad at games they cant play them legit.

dont know about meph's level but i like to rush normal highcouncil for low lev starter items too. doing normal cows is also a good way to find low lev set items

-Tempus-

hulla-hop

25-11-2004, 19:19

Inu

25-11-2004, 22:06

Public dupes are dupes that are made public on hacking boards et cetera. Those are the ones that spread exactly everything. Private dupes are dupes that only a few people know about. Sometimes only 1 person and it stays that way. These dupes ALWAYS exist.

-Tempus-

26-11-2004, 07:27

hiya, ive started a classic sorc, lvl 75 now. shes orb/fbaal with maxed orb and almost cold mastery and maxed fball/folt and one i firemastery im using twitch, 3pdia tower shield, 114 mana helm, spectral, magefists, nightsmoke, rare boots with almost 30 cold and poison res, manald and a 10 fcr with light and fire res. amu is a +1 sorc with 13 energy, 20 life and 18 prismatic, 50 cold res. im seriously struggling with manaproblems when tele'ing and such, but i plan to use 2x 10fcr rings and frosties to boost mana more, and still maintain a decent fcr. shes pretty decent so far tho. what i want to know is what the diff bp's are for classic? like fhr and such? same as exp? and are their sites that discuss classic more in-depth with larger communities perhaps? im on euro realm, ladder classic. acc is *hullaclassic

/hulla

all the breakpoints are the same as LOD its just you cant hit the higher ones. like for a hammerdin most will use 50% or 75% fcr the next is 125% but in classic the most you can get is 120%

mana problems on your sorc? how much energy/mana do you have? do you use energy shield? do you have any points in warmth? nightsmoke will help some if you get hit from melee attacks but why would you want to get hit to get some mana back.

hit more mana pots if you keep running low.

since most of my D2C sorcs dont use mana shield i dont much of a problem with running out of mana.

find a bo barb to coop with. the best ones could have 31 bo/shout/command

NOTE: +60 posts and +1000 views looks like people still like classic :clap:

-Tempus-

Taft12

26-11-2004, 11:28

hulla-hop, my suggestion is to lose the Manald, it doesn't help a sorc too much. Find a ring (even a magical) with 50+ mana and it should make a noticeable difference. You will probably also want to keep an eye out for an upgrade to your other ring as well that has a mana boost. Frostburns will help a lot when you get that too.

As far as a classic community goes, Tempus is right -- I think we're proving to the mods that the base is here for a classic forum on these boards. Tell all your friends!

Oh and thanks for the info Inu!

hulla-hop

26-11-2004, 15:06

hiya, thx for advice, tempus and taft.

tempus: i dont use energyshield, so thats not the problem, iirc im at about 90 energy, havent statted much there, as i really need the life. when i tele constantly, i chug mana pots every 5 secs or so...maybe im just spoiled with all the nice equip i have on nl expansion :)

taft: manald is used cause im lacking any better ring. ideally id like a 10fcr + loads of mana, but havent found one yet, im afraid

also, where can i trade for items? havent had any luck in-game and i have no idea what items are worth anything...nobody wants to trade frostburns for gems :/

Merick

26-11-2004, 15:56

This thread now has more posts than the Sacred PvP strategies forum:http://www.rpgforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Time for your own board? :spy:

Ragnarod

26-11-2004, 16:07

This isn't probably the right place to ask, but it's kind of hard to find info on classic patches, so I'll give it a try :) I'm currently playing some classic d2 in single player, using the 1.06b patch. I played it back in the day, but I don't remember a few things I'd like to know, so here they are:

- What were the chances of gambling a rare/unique item back then? I seem to remember that it took around 1-1.5 million gold to gamble a SoJ, if that's right then it should be around 3-5% chance, anyone knows the exact number?

- Related to the last question, where should I try to mf/gf? I've been able to gear a half-decent lance barb (not truly original, but hey, it works) so I should be able to run anything but the Chaos Sanctuary, since act bosses drop so crappily I've been running the Hell Council, is there any other option? And was Find Item any good back then? Keep in mind I play strictly SP, and there's no players x command in d2c, so I'm stuck at players 1 with not-so-good chances of monsters dropping items

- All unique items could be gambled from lvl 1 on, right? I know that's the case with rings and amulets, since I used to gamble with a lvl 5 in bnet to increase the chance of having rings for sale in the gambling screen, but I'd like to gamble a few other uniques (Blinkbat, Goldwrap...)

I think that's more or less all I'm not sure of right now, thanks in advance for any help you can give me :)

PS: Hi there Tempus, everything fine? :wave:

Taft12

26-11-2004, 16:36

Taft's Classic Ladder Price Guide: Alpha Version

Since interest in Classic seems to be building on these boards, I thought it would be really handy (especially for newcomers and XPac-only players) to lay out some basic item values for better unique and set items. This is not intended to be any kind of final say and I plan on revising it based on feedback. pwnced did/is doing a fantastic job on a LoD USEast price guide and that inspired this list.

Classic is lacking a common currency (PSkulls are probably the closest thing) so what I did was break the items into 4 "tiers" of desirability. Not everything is worth quite the same within a tier (but they should be close), so I tried to put the slightly more valuable stuff at the top of the tier. In PSkull terms, the Bronze tier would be (guessing) 1-2 PSkulls and the Silver Tier would be 3-5. Gold and Platinum have stuff you probably wouldn't trade for PSkulls. If anyone has a better way than this tier idea for ranking items I am certainly open to that.

I have no doubt that I'm way off on the values of a few of these items and I am not a truly veteran trader, so again feedback is appreciated and encouraged. I play USEast, but hopefully trade values don't differ too much from one realm to another. Have at it folks!

To-do list
-fix glaring omissions and incorrect rankings
-break down some items by variable stats (eg. Ward, Bonesnap, Nagel, Manald, Chancies, etc)
-come up with a way to value rare items?

Platinum Tier
The Stone of Jordan
Silks of the Victor
Goldskin
Gull

Gold Tier
Frostburn
Spectral Shard
Tarnhelm
Rattlecage
Chance Guards
Twitchthroe
Magefist
Bonesnap
Heavenly Garb
Goldwrap
Ume's Lament
The Eye of Elitch
Death's Belt
Tancred's Boots
Angelic Amulet

Silver Tier
Manald Heal
Wall of the Eyeless
Bloodfist
Goblin Toe
Tearhaunch
Steeldriver
The Hand of Broc
The Mahim Oak Curio
Blinkbat's Form
Lenymo
Death's Gloves
Sigon's Shield
Arcanna's Amulet

Bronze Tier
Steelclash
The Ward
The Iron Jang Bong
Biggin's Bonnet
Nagelring
Swordback Hold
Duskdeep
Nightsmoke
Wormskull
Iceblink
Hawkmail
Culwen's Point
Greyform
Hotspur
Bladebuckle
Undead Crown
Gravenspine
Milabrega's Armor
Any Sigon except Shield

munroebagger1

27-11-2004, 16:31

Sorry if i missed an answer already to this but I looked.

Sorry also for the sheer stupidity of the question...

Is playing Classic as simple as unchecking the Expansion button when you make a new char? Or would I need to uninstall expansion? If the way I mentioned is correct then why do I still have synergies listed on the skills, and also the game looks exactly the same... I was hoping for an old-school kind of thing.

Sockeye

27-11-2004, 20:43

Hi, yes it is just a simple as unchecking the box -no need to uninstall LOD, in fact uninstalling LOD would be bad.

All battlenet games are 1.10, Classic or LOD, hence they all have synergies.

The game will look exactly the same untill you try to enter act 5, as there is no act 5 in Classic. What you will notice before that time is the lack of runes, charms, quality mercs, and other things taken for granted in LOD.

munroebagger1

27-11-2004, 20:45

Thank you Sockeye for the info. Darn it, I wanted it to be all cheesy looking and stuff, if I can't have that then there is no reason to do it.

Sockeye

27-11-2004, 20:54

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU Taft. Just what we needed :clap:

I like the 4 tire system, Looks GREAT!!!

Except now I see that everytime I find a Gold I trade it for a Bronze :scratch: :rant:

Sockeye

27-11-2004, 21:09

<<Darn it, I wanted it to be all cheesy looking and stuff, if I can't have that then there is no reason to do it.>>

Actually there is plenty of cheese, as the Uniques are so very basic that it hurts. The main reason for playing Classic, as opposed to passing through in Hellforge rushes, is the lack of dupes on Ladder. The fun factor goes up by a factor of 10 or more when ppl play with real items. I never have played PVP in LOD just do to the dupes. In LOD whoever has the best dupes wins, in Classic **LADDER** mf + trading + skills = winning.

The main reason for passing through if play LOD is quick Hellforge drops.

Anyway, I seem to now enjoy Classic more than LOD. So I would have to recommend you at least give it a try.

-Tempus-

27-11-2004, 22:23

25-30 p skulls= 1 soj west nl
silk = soj
2 gulls = soj
thats kind of close if you can find someone to trade

the great thing about per lod was you could also price items in gold. since it would take X amount to gamble an item you could get that item for gold. you would also think about how long it would take to find that item if you were to mf it vs how long it would take to goldfind the cash to gamble it.

like Taft12 said you can get most items with just a few p skulls (NL) or with 3 p topaz helms. for me i would take a lot of stuff for gold since i like to gamble stuff.

munroebagger1: about the only difference you have with D2C if you also have LOD is you can play D2C at 800x600 where if you only have D2C you must play at 640x400.

Sockeye: ya i think you are right, if someone doesnt have a ton of old stuff/char then starting D2C Ladder would be a lot more fun then going to NL. ladder is a place to start fresh. my problem is since i've been around so long i still have a ton of old per lod items that i cant seem to giveup. i also have too many chars still in D2C (over 25) + mules accounts +all the chars i lev then move to LOD NL (where most of my stuff is) i dont play ladder much on any realm lod or d2c since if i were to start i'd have to make even more mule accounts to hold all the junk i'd want to save. right now it takes my hrs to get all my chars online every 90 days

Ragnarod: waves :howdy:
i think there could be more info in the single player forum but i'd guess most of the posts would have been lost with fourm updates.

gambling in that patch= load up on R/W items and run out of town or down to the sewers to reset the venders. i would always gamble in act2 with one of my amz (could never seem to gamble sojs with barbs/pals) i never liked to us low lev chars to gamble since i was always after rares with good mods

mf/gf highcouncil, meph, andy, druiel, diablo CS. old school was just load up on MF and clear all of act4. save the gold and gamble gamble gamble. for the CS use a pike or even a 6 gem pile/lance (i liked polearms)

somethings i recall kind of...
1.07 is what came with LOD right? there was a patch right before LOD came out that made all the monsters in D2C the same as LOD. it was out for a week or so b4 it was changed.

lev reqs were added to uniqs in D2C in one of the 1.06 patches or was it in 1.07 1.08 uniqs have lev reqs but with different mods then 1.09 and 1.10

in one of the patches the only want to find socketed weapons was with the FI skill.

i dont recall what patch it was in when they added ED to fan but i think that was also when they changed the amount of life/mana BO added with each lev. it use to add much less then it does now, many of the changes to rares, gambling were made at about the same time.

remember if you want a 49% tarn (cant get 50%back then) or a 6%eye (cant get a 7%) then you cant have one in the game.

i also cant recall under what patch they changed the odds to gamble stuff. it was b4 LOD so if you dont have any luck trying to get uniqs in 1.06b maybe you need an older patch.

-Tempus-

ShikYaku

28-11-2004, 21:00

-Tempus-

29-11-2004, 11:12

hihi, didn't know that silk of victor is worth that much. I just found one on my sorc ( lvl 78 ). i also got a question. I'm a orb//nova sorc ( 0.9 yes :lol: ) but i need more fcr and dmg. i use a rare staff which give me +1 to sorc and +1 orb but is there any better staff for orb sorcs ? and another question. I keep finding +1 skill ammy's but aren't there +2 or +3 ?

a D2C staff with +orb? i'd like to see a pick of that since i've never seen one in d2c. LOD you can get them but.

silk is the only +skill plate in classic and it also has ML so its good for many builds. its no the best for many builds but is a great 2nd plate to have on a char.

only way to get more dmg with nova is with +skills or to hit the next fcr breakpoint. try and get a bong, its +2 skills +2 nova with fcr. you can find +2 toall +3 nova staffs from the NPC's for a few 100k.

as for amulets you can only find +1 or +2 skill amulets, there arent any +3 skill amulets in D2C. the only way to get a +2 amulet is to have hell diablo drop one or to gamble one with a +86 lev char.

-Tempus-

tilt

30-11-2004, 12:19

trading value in d2 ladder was always gold, and best items were always exceptional rares, their price was in sojs not gold... its hard to say how much gold soj was worth but definetly more than 2 000 000
there is no uniq wich was close with it price to soj, silks gulls and other stff is just crap compared to it

trading value for top rares was in sojs, and quality of rares was determinated by their stats, ie. on boots hit recovery+move speed+3 high res(40 fire ice light, poison was bad), on mage plater hit recovery+3x high res+60life+stats(strenght, energy/dex were bad)... rares like these were most needed items, i was getting few sojs for single...

+2 amulets are a bit different, only diablo can drop them, but high level chars can gable them(forgot req, i think it was 87 but i dunno, also higher level was better chance in theory but in practice some levels had better possibilities), plain +2 is just crap, worth no more than 300 000 gold(some rares with crap stats can be even worse than magic +2 with other good stat like +20 strenght), but rare +2 with res all life and other useful stats were worth few sojs too, and top ones were highest priced items next to rare battlehammers

thats it :howdy:

Taft12

30-11-2004, 18:30

Thanks for the info tilt - I know you mentioned ladder in your post, but I haven't seen many gold traders in my classic ladder exploits (season 2 only). I really haven't done any high-end trading, so I will have to take your word for it. I wanted to ballpark-price useful uniques. If anyone has anything else to add regarding trade values and changes to my list, please chime in.

-Tempus-

01-12-2004, 06:10

pncwd

01-12-2004, 08:55

Ok im a noob to this here post and to playing classic, when I played classic I just played single player and never got past norm lvl, so I really dont know much about it. With that being said, I have some questions,
1. I am going to start a classic rusher, for the most obvious reasons, LOD forge rushes, and I am not sure which is a better rusher, Sorc or Hammerdin

2. If I go with a sorc what are the best skills to use for classic? In LOD I have a lvl88 metor/orb/Fireball sorc and can kill just about anything except a few things in act five, and of course the super uniques that spawn with both immunites. Thats what my merc is for though right, which leads me to my next question.

3. Since mercs do not go with you from norm all the way to hell, how offten do you if at all should you rehire a merc?

4. Now if I do a hammerdin, which sucks in act two especially the maggot lair, I wont even use a merc at all. But what items are the best for him to wear since there is no elite unique items, ie wizzardspike.

5. If a hammerdin is done where is the earliest place that the spectral shard will drop. Since that is the only item that I know of that will give you 50%fcr, I would be looking for that almost immediately upon reaching the clvl in which I can start using it.

I have read through alot of the post on here and gathered some good info on playing classic, and I am sure that most of my questions have been answered on here at one point in time or another. But, there seems to be a little confusion on which is the better one to build. So I ask the question again to see if anything has changed. Just remember that the only purpose of my character is to rush other characters to hell act 3 and then convert to LOD for the forge.

Thanks for any help you guys (and gals if any are playing here) for your info in advance. If any of you play USEast ladder SC and haven't visited the trading fourm I encourage you to do so.

tilt

02-12-2004, 11:46

i was playing during last ladder season, and when i played there were many diff item builds for hammeradin but imo those are best:
1) magic scepter, 10fcr +2 paladin skills +3 concentration +3 blessed hammer is best and hardest thing to get, u can try to shop it in hell act 2 or 3, items like this cost over 500 000 and u need some level to be able to get them(again forgot wich one)

2) rare paladin +2 amulet with 10fcr, 20 prismatic mod and stats(40 or 60(dunno what was max on amus)life, 20 strenght), also other resists wich would enchance prism are nice(comes from hell diablo or gambling)

3) rare paladin +2 shield with prismatic mode, faster hit recovery and other stats(forgot what was good on shields, maybe -requirements and other res to enchance prismatic mode), also shield type is imporant, grim shields were best because high armor and block with pretty low reqs(forgot where to get those :(, anyway i remember that hell chaos sanctuary had good chance, dunno if u were able to gamble those)
-this can be also socketed with perfect diamond to get even better res

4) rare ring with 10fcr, good res(cant be prismatic but u can get triple res 30 wich is almost same), and +strenght(maybe other mods, like magic find), rare rings are pretty common so u just need to be lucky to get ring with needed stats

5) rare mageplate(maybe other type of armor), high res(triple 30), -req, +life, 17faster hit recovery, high armor, can be socketed for more life

6) stone of jordan(u should know this one :D)

7) uniq boots with +15% max fire res and 45%fire res, forgot name, check item lists(very rare tho, usually they are dropped in act1 normal)

8) rare helmet with known stats(res life armor hit recovery... heh everything is same)

9) magefists
-------------
if u get proper stats on rares and u will have good char build(high level with high holy shield) then u can be almost invincible in hell chaos sanctuary, with high armor from holy shield and items, max res even after that -res curse and aura, great damage from scepter and 50fcr, good hit recovery... blah thats just dream equip but i think its best one, sometimes u will have good enough rares that getting mroe res would be dumb, so u can put something with +skills instead(like tarnhelm or silk), or that uniq armor with +5% max res all(low defense but u can have 80 res all/95 fire wich should bo good for hell chaos sanctuary) but it really depends... read statistic forum to get clue about breakpoints(fhr/fcr etc) then check best item mods on rares and u will know what u are lacking and what do u need

and here are answeres for other questions:
1. for full rushing(act1 norm-act4 hell diablo) u need both of them
2. i think that best pvm would be pure blizzard sorc with 1 point in static field, and good faster cast rate to teleport fast enough to avoid immune monsters, then u should switch to hammeradin when u need to kill immunities/harder monsters
3. merc sux real hard in classic, dont even think about it, hell mercs will lose 1v1 vs fallen or rat
4. teleport with sorc in maggot lair, blizzard eveyrthing in final room and then make protal so other guy will get staff(maggot boss is cold immune so u can leave him as he is or static then get hammeradin, make sure that other guy will make portal for u)... look above for "godly" paladin equippment
5. magic/rare scpeter with good stats is superior to shard in damage output, max fcr with scepter is 50 but u will deal much more damage than with shard and 80fcr(these are breakopoints, 10-30-50-80 for paladin i belive) anyway... shard is pretty common item, maybe someone will sell u one for 300 000 gold( :scratch:, try asking really high level people, often they need gold to gamble, i dunno price but paying more than 500k would be bad deal for you; when i was playing it was like this on europe), if not then u can search anywhere, i found it in many places like act3 durance of hate, maggot lair final boss, act 1 catacombs but that was long time ago

pncwd

02-12-2004, 12:33

well thank you very much that was as informative as you can get without writing a book. Do you still play classic and if so on what realm (still Eu)? I would like to run a few games with you if you are on the Us East realm.

I am going to start my classic rusher this week end and hopefully be done by nest weekend so I can spend most of my christmas time rushing mules to the hell forge.

Taft12

02-12-2004, 17:50

7) uniq boots with +15% max fire res and 45%fire res, forgot name, check item lists(very rare tho, usually they are dropped in act1 normal)

Wow I didn't know these were in demand by high level hammerdins (Hotspur is the name btw). It makes sense now that I think about it since Vigor will have you running around like a bat out of hell regardless of the run/walk on your boots, although you'll need to have pretty high fire resist in hell to make use of the 15% max resist.

kobrakai[UK]

02-12-2004, 20:42

Wow I didn't know these were in demand by high level hammerdins (Hotspur is the name btw). It makes sense now that I think about it since Vigor will have you running around like a bat out of hell regardless of the run/walk on your boots, although you'll need to have pretty high fire resist in hell to make use of the 15% max resist.

I find fire resistance to the most important resistance if a hammerdin is to do CS runs as packs of vemon lords hurt without maxed fire resistance. My hammerdin currently uses Nokozan Relic for the extra fire resistance as I have 40% psn resist on my boots which I also find handy while doing CS runs.

RitalinStar

03-12-2004, 23:12

Hi there all. Let me introduce myself.

I'm a D2 addict looking for something new, and classic appealed. LOD HFs vs C HFs? Classic wins ;D So, I began Classic a few days ago. I got a MeteOrb to 25 and a Hammerdin to 8 or 9. I'm looking for buddies, people to play with and so on, USWest SC Ladder and Non-Ladder. Look me up, *RitalinStar or email me at RitalinStar@aol.com

-Adam

General_Hummel

06-12-2004, 04:44

i'd like to see what someone gets with higher lev chars

-Tempus-

ill show my result of gamble yesterday.
260 ammy
lvl 93 char
D2C USwest ladder
not count +1 skill

6* +2 skill magic
31* rare
7* +2 skill rare (no priz though :xx: )

TheCerberus

06-12-2004, 19:51

Wow I didn't know these were in demand by high level hammerdins (Hotspur is the name btw). It makes sense now that I think about it since Vigor will have you running around like a bat out of hell regardless of the run/walk on your boots, although you'll need to have pretty high fire resist in hell to make use of the 15% max resist.
Hi Taft, I liked your guide, but there are some things I disagree with. I didn't look at it that much, but here's a couple thoughts.
Blinkbat's is a Gold Tier item IMO, it's valued heavily by Zons/Necros. Also, rares: hard to classify, its really what the buyer will give. Maybe we could get starting prices, and then work way up?

Also, I'll be writing up some guides for cheap, standard PvP builds that can easily be started on ladder.

-Tempus-

07-12-2004, 00:03

ill show my result of gamble yesterday.
260 ammy
lvl 93 char
D2C USwest ladder
not count +1 skill

6* +2 skill magic
31* rare
7* +2 skill rare (no priz though :xx: )

thanks for the info, i've put about 7mill on chars that i'll spend when i get a char to 88. if i'm happen with the number of +2 amulets i get i'll stop there and lev some of my other 100 chars.

also what has been the highest MF you have gambled on an amulet in 1.10? (magic or rare)

-Tempus-

Fearlessone

07-12-2004, 01:58

It's so boring doing runs for higher level chars in LOD. Unless you've cheated, you probably don't have the enigma or whatever it is to tele down to throneroom. If you walk there, you hardly get like 50-100 exp per monster kill because they are from act1-3 usually and give crap exp (1.10 patch change to liven things up, who does bloody foothills runs anymore with silly skellies all about). So you are doomed to a tp in throneroom that may be swarmed and if u die then the others might say "Oh, next run" and exit leaving u a 10% death.

Then you kill off the monsters in throneroom, which is fun actually, they aren't usually that easy. Then the baal minions spawn. In some groups the spawn area is bombarded by meteors and is a bath of flames, and the monsters all die in like 1 second flat. BORING. You won't get jack exp for the first 2 groups, a bit for the 3rd and really only the act4&5 minions give the 'big bucks'. But still these latter often die so fast that my pnova necro and thrower barbs can barely cast anything. Just shows how some ppl put 60-80 skill points into some synergy and do a bijillion damage per instant.

Then it's: "next", and you go off to the next sterile repeat. Unless you play only with super high lvl chars or friends, you probably don't recognize any of these guys. You will play with them until you can't get into the game, cuz blizzard's bnet posts 15 games to 30,000 people all at once (instead of parsing multiple lists out), and like 300 of them hit anything that has 'baal' in it as fast as they try to pick up set/uniq items. So then you pretty much have to find another very similar run to get any good exp. I have tried to play alone, but then I often lag out and die a 10% death, which at over lvl 90 isn't fun. Lately tho, I've noticed diablo runs creeping into the LOD game lists...

NOW for CLASSIC! (whew! yes, you are relieved to know there is something about classic in this post)

Since the nerf of cow exp, the only place to get good exp in classic for lvls 80+ is in river+cs. Now there have always been sora's (Japanese for highest?) rushes in chaos sanct runs with a tele sorc or leaper to the diablo spawn star, pop all seals and run about with all kinds of mages tossing colored balls at you and mobs and such, derisively called 'chaotic runs'. These runs are just awful for melee chars who don't want to just give bo and stand around, because of iron maiden. (BytheWay, non-whirlwind melee chars were nearly wiped out by the 1.10 patch in classic: no more zealots, avengers, smiters, frenziers, etc..) So you can join such super fast runs or join in 'walks-to-cs'.

Walk-to-cs, safewalk, riverwalks: these are some of the names to clue in the overpowered sterile sora types to NOT choose this game to get their bijillionth instafix. You start from river waypt and go all the way to diablo, killing nearly all monsters and sticking together. No 'someone tele there!' chatter. Few hammerdins or bliz sorc's choose these runs, but plenty of barbs and orb sorc do since they kill slower and well, are safe. Any non-cookie cutter builds will gravitate to these. You don't spend 3/4 of the time waiting for the minions to spawn and then frantically trying to hit one button b4 everything dies.

All these runs in hell and others in norm and nm show up on the list most of the time. They don't fill up in 2 seconds flat. You may actually have played with some of these other people hundreds, if not thousands of times b4. No "wow this is a decent run, too bad I eventually won't be able to get in and will never see it again" business. No "wow, what a good group, too bad I will never see any of them again" If anything, there is often too much chatter and trade talk during the slower walks (bliz got rid of the classic only chat channels of which there were usually 7, so people use games to ask questions and trade, which is annoying). Rarely are walks aborted, and if someone dies, a tp is provided. Frequently, lots of full rejuvs and gold will drop and NOT be stolen - yes its stealing u LOD immoralists. If someone is a jerk who swipes pots and gold and uses grabbit, people will know about them and avoid playing with them, to the point of blackballing.

So seeing the same people frequently and having the run last for more than a minute makes the game not BORING (unless your brain is hardwired to the console for your bijillionth instafix, which acclimates quickly and requires ever faster runs to keep the l-dopamine dose level). And you can actually see the drama unfold and plan your skill selections accordingly. It's amazing kids!

Taft12

08-12-2004, 18:26

While I'm not as anti-LOD as some have posted here, I agree with Fearless that people have better manners in in Classic and that randomly running into familiar names does actually happen sometimes (I don't think I've ever seen the same person twice in LOD).

General_Hummel: Thanks for the data, you must be one of the top chars on USWest Ladder! Does you 31 rare total include the 7 +2 rares, or did you actually get 38 rares? Either way you were above the average or 1 rare per 10 gambles which is always nice.

Tempus: It's possible to get up to 40% MF on a MAGICAL amulet. The 11-15% MF prefix can only spawn on a blue, the suffix is up to 25% and does show up on rares.

Cerberus: You're right about Blinkbat's, it's one of the rarer uniques and has good mods. I'll submit the beta version of the price guide soon. Thanks for offering an opinion, I'd love it if others would do the same.

Fearlessone

10-12-2004, 01:51

Hurray that there might be a separate Classic location here at diabloii.net! There have been a few attempts elsewhere to cater to classic players: DW had a separate forum site, but it seems to have disappeared on their new format and some guy started a hosted site at geocities about a year ago, but where is it now?

It's too bad that the first few postings on this thread made classic out to be a pathway for various LOD rushes, hellforge and such. Also, it seems as if a huge % of the people who read this stuff never started playing in classic, and need to know the simplest differences between the two. Explaining those differences is taking up a huge bite in this thread. When you play in public classic games, you almost never hear references to LOD, and certainly never anything about a rush just to convert to LOD. Of course, those sorts of players, with help from a higher lvl char, do private games and zoom thru at light speed. Without our long gone separate classic chat channels, it's as if they just don't exist. If you play in classic, and have for years - with or without journeying to LOD - you will want to come to a forum where u feel at home. Not one where you hear "no runes or charms, sorry" for the umpteenth time. I suppose if they come up with a separate forum, that's where the first post will take care of those questions. Indeed, thats what the first posting here addresses, but subsequent postings make it seem that classic is under LOD's shadow.

Lots of long time classic players abandoned the game after 1.10 came out. they had already put some effort into LOD and many just didn't care much for it after a once-thru. Most of the time, in classic game, when you mention LOD, you get "LOD sucks". So be prepared if you come to public classic games and assume that we are just short the $30 to get to LOD, or that we are orphans or rush vehicles or such...

JicamaEater

12-12-2004, 22:58

I played Classic online and really enjoyed it. Then I started on LOD and couldn't stand that Battle.net. I probably never would have gone back but seeing this thread has thrilled me once again. I might just get on tonight.

Fritos-crunch

14-12-2004, 17:13

I agree with all of you.

JicamaEater

14-12-2004, 19:12

All right so, if somebody can tell me about the following things, that'd be great...
There are no magical javelins, correct?
There are no socketed body armors?
Which cube recipes work? Do any that don't require runes/expansion only items work? Or are there some that don't work even within those constraints? Are there some not on the Arreat Summit because they don't work in D2X?

And, last, I realize we probably can't link it from here, but is there a site that has reasonably accurate monster stats for 1.10 Classic? I'm not asking where, just if I would ever be able to find one...

Fearlessone

15-12-2004, 03:34

No magical javs, or rares, or any unique throwing weapons, all are plain and expensive. So when they are gone, they are gone. And you cant even imbue throwing weapons in classic. I'm not sure if this is possible in LOD.

One socket in armor is possible with the soj cube recipe.

Pretty much the cube recipe will work if it has items available in classic.

Blizzard chucked the classic only site, the Chaos Sanctuary, because they said they only had enough manpower for the Arreat Summit upkeep. Generally, what you see at the A.S. goes for classic too, if the monster is in classic. There are some important differences, especially for monsters, and esp monster levels. Not that the same monsters are any harder anymore in LoD. This is one of the MANY foibles thrusted upon us in classic with patch 1.10. There are other D2x sites and they may provide u to links to places such as the AB and LL.

Monsters in classic will have immunities and resistances just like in LOD. Blizzard in 1.10 seemed to have just applied whatever LOD changes they could to classic, without testing. Similiarly, 1.08 changes were applied, although some testing might have been done then. This was a little before LOD came out and there was an uproar in the D2 community, because it was so hard: people couldnt and hadnt converted to xpac and didnt have the new equipment to overcome the difficulties. Chief among these may have been the 50% global physical resistance and perhaps more physical resistance on top of that! As I recall, it was 3 days before bliz restored things, but keeping the various elemental immunities so that sorc's would have to get 'something' besides 20+20 in orb+coldmast.

Monster lvls: perhaps can be easily discerned by simply adding +25 or +50 to mlvl by looking at their normal difficulty rating to get nm or hell lvls. Cows are lvl 28 + 50 = 78 in hell. Most monsters in river and cs are 30 +50=80 mlvl.
Diablo is 40+50=90. Urdars are 82 in hell river. Most early actIV hell monsters are 74-76. Most late act3 monsters are this lvl or a little lower. Meph is lvl 76. In 1.08 and 1.09 this was well tested with cows, diablo and urdars, so bliz didnt change the mlvl in classic. (In LOD it was +9 to NM and +16 to Hell mlvls for a max of 90, with Nihalthek and Baal being 95? not sure if this holds true still.) For example, as soon as u hit lvl 87, ur exp would suck in cows, and u had to go river/cs. This is because of severe exp penalties cuz u are +9 lvls over cows. Then and probably now, u get less exp when u reach a lvl that is more than 5 lvls over the monster u kill. This went 88% 68% 38% 18% and finally 5% at +10 lvls. This is in addn to the character lvl exp penalty curve bliz now uses in 1.10 beginning at lvl 70 or such ( which replaces the old: lvl 75 1/2, 80 1/3, 85 1/4, 90 1/5exp)

I kind of doubt that when bliz applied 1.10 to classic - on Oct 28 2003 just as in LOD - that they made much of any effort to 'ease up' in some ways. We got all the synergies. When I converted my high lvl pnova necro to LoD, everything seemed the same, except of course, he had -50% to all his resists (30% of which melted away with Anya quest). It took the same time to kill monsters in the cs. It's possible LOD has higher physical resistances in hell over classic, haven't tested that.

Taft12

15-12-2004, 15:53

It's possible LOD has higher physical resistances in hell over classic, haven't tested that.

I don't think so. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 1.10 removed all physical resistance in hell and significantly boosted up monsters' HP to compensate. I don't know why it would be any different in Classic.

Fearlessone

16-12-2004, 02:03

Maybe u mean the 50% global physical resistance? We didn't have that in classic during 1.08/1.09 and certainly didnt have the equipment to deal it. Yes, hp were boosted in 1.10. I remember at the old Chaos Sanctuary site seeing single player monster hp being around 800-1200 for late act4 monsters. Now they are 10x that!!

If you check on the battle.net/diablo2exp/ site under Monsters, you will see that many, if not most of them in hell have some sort of damage resistance. Since that site listed elemental, poison and magical resistances, what else could this be but physical resistance?

I started a good thread over at the necro forum a few days ago entitled "amp damage vs. decrep curse: expert help needed". It has quite a nice discussion about physical res vs. defense, immunity, stone skin and such.

qazxswcde

18-12-2004, 21:20

guides to makin assorted classes in classic

iv played classic much longer then iv played xpac so thoght id make a guide to help make the chars i made

chars are
hammerdin (MF)
holy shocker (mid level dueler)
charger(mid level dueler)
thats basically it had a summoner to but summoners dont work in classic

hammerdin

skills (when done)
20 bh
20 conc
20 blessed aim
20 vigor
1 holy shield
1 charge (prereq for holy shield)
1 redemption(already took all prereqs when got vigor)
that makes 90 points
-12
78 easily gotten level
stats
100 str(mayby less see gear)
51 dex
rest vit
0 energy

gear

wep

shard=50 fcr 10resist all 50 mana (best choice slightly expensive)
gull=100 mf (overpriced by the time you can afford you should be done with char)
scepter=2 pally (easily gotten worse then shard you can buy them off hell larzuk

shield

steelclash=1 pally 15 resist all 63 block(great starting shield basically free to)
sigons=1 all skills high block(same as steelclash no resist though)
rare=+2 pally and resist(by now you should have holy shield so blocking doesnt matter)
magic=+2 pally you can buy them off charsi(takes awile)

helm
tarn=+1 all skills 25-50 mf(best helm relitavly cheap)
3 p rubyed=lots of hp
3 p topaz=lots of mf(more then tarn)
3 p shappired= lots of man (shapires dont have to be perfect
rare= not worth the time

armour

angelic=use if your gonna use angelic
silks=one skill(overpriced)
gskins=resist(overpriced to)
rare/magic=go for resist or anthing of the colussos

boots
sigons=use if your gonna use sigs
rare=lookin for mf and resiist probally better off with just mf both can be costly

belt
sigons=use if your gonna use sigons
gwrap=30 mf(probally best)
rare/magic= 80 or up hp belt buy off charsi

gloves
magefist=20fcr (best choice gives 70 fcr with shard)
frostburns=40% mana
chacies=up to 40 mf(another good choice)
sigons=use if your gonna use sigs

amulet
angelic=use if your gonna use angleic
rare=+2 pally (you can gamble them)

rings
2 angelic=use if your gonna use angelic
2 nagel= up to 60 mf
2 soj= 2 to all skills 4o% mana (very expensive)
2 rares=10 fcr plus mf or resist or both

the 3 good sets for hammerdins

angelic (best set at begining)
100 mf
110 hp
1 skill
and resists
very low level reqs

sigons
50 mf
and some resist
good for the 50 mf

milagabra

dont use noone seems to have it

mf places
hell cs=very very slow if you do alone not a good idea with a full xp bar
hell meph= to slow if you dont hack.
hell andy=great mf spot get there with vigor
nm cs= good if your not strong yet
norm cs=very good idea when you start and have no gear just use fanat so you never have to stop killin angleic and sigs are a good idea for 150mf so is a tarn

just gonna do hammerdin

vdzele

24-12-2004, 09:06

-Charts for fast cast rate and fast hit recovery please. Same as LOD?

-Were do you spend your money. Over 1000000000000000 …. went on gambling .... nothing. Not even a set …. nothing.

-Tempus-

24-12-2004, 14:21

-Charts for fast cast rate and fast hit recovery please. Same as LOD?

-Were do you spend your money. Over 1000000000000000 …. went on gambling .... nothing. Not even a set …. nothing.

fcr, fhr are the same but you just cant get as much in both in D2C vs LOD
for a hammerdin most will use 50% or 75% fcr but you can go with less. you'll never hit the last breakpoint of 125% in D2C.

1,000,000,000,000,000? now 1000 trillion gold is a lot of gold and i'd guess you only spend a mill 1,000,000. as some of the older posts have listed you need a lev 86 char to get any chance of a +2 amulet. so if you only want those done use a char lower then that. if you want to try for ml/ll rings go for those untill you are higher in lev. at lev 88 i got 3 or 4 +2 amuelts out of 100 amulets. thats 50k each or 5,000,000

-Tempus-

TheCerberus

25-12-2004, 13:31

Hmm 86? People have gotten at 83 I think, or at least 84.
Or are those lies?

TheCerberus

25-12-2004, 14:26

Hmm 86? People have gotten at 83 I think, or at least 84.
Or are those lies?

-Tempus-

26-12-2004, 03:44

Hmm 86? People have gotten at 83 I think, or at least 84.
Or are those lies?

per lod you could start to get them at 84 but when lod came out you needed to be higher in lev to gamble +2 amuelts. now the odds to get +2 go up with each lev you gain after 86. the items you gamble can have an item lev of + or - 5 levs of the char used to gamble them. when lod came out i used all my saved gold in D2C to gamble amulets (in d2c) and wasnt able to get any +2 amulets at lev 85. i had to lev my d2c chars to 86 to get any (and i've always been into gambling) so the only place to get +2 amuelts in D2C is off hell diablo (mlev of 90) or use a 86 or higher char to gamble them. going from 86-87 isnt that hard so if you want to have good odds on amulets try and be 87 or 88. after that its going to take a long time to lev your char.

-Tempus-

Fearlessone

26-12-2004, 23:41

Well, someone correct me if wrong. But unless changed in 1.10 classic, it was supposed to be charlvl 84 where u could first start to have a chance to get a +2 ammy (90% of which will be just magical since only a 10% chance to get a rare). The reasoning was supposed to be that it was ilvl (item lvl) of 90 and that only diablo could drop one since he is mlvl (monster lvl) 90, or something like that. From years ago it was stated often that you could be minus 6 chars below the ilvl, so hence clvl 84. An example was over at Spirea's Resource, which still exists on another site. It used to mention this minus -6 lvl feature such as ilvl 35 to get the top damage on a weapon, so imbue at lvl 29 to avoid resists which frequently came in later.

I have gambled many many times in this patch and havent gotten any +2 until I was clvl 90. My lvl 98 classic sometimes gets three +2's with 50 gambles, but usually less often. What changes have occurred in LOD I can't say, or if the gambling stats have changed with 1.10. One thing for sure was: u could find endless cow runs with loot galore and gamble all day long. Now scooping up the loot, which is not cheating!, is vastly harder.

As tempus says, prob is foolish to gamble away millions of gold on a clvl 84. Trouble is, thats about when u actually start dying a good bit, experience gains start grinding down and u lose a sizeable fraction of ur gold with each death. IMHO not worth gambling until late clvl 80's. Answer: find a trusty hilvl friend to do the gambling for u! It's not cheating!

TheCerberus

27-12-2004, 01:33

I got a bunch of +2's at 86, none at 87.
And I mean a bunch... 1 out of every 7 or so. I shouldn't have leveled, the short time I was 86 was bliss when it came to gambling.

General_Hummel

27-12-2004, 14:33

+2 skill prefix is ilvl 90.
when u gamble, u can get 4 plus minus ilvl stuff.

lvl 86 char can get ilvl 82-90(12.5% possibility to get +2 skill) for gamblin,
lvl 87-----------------83-91(25%)
lvl 88-----------------84-92(37.5%)
lvl 89-----------------85-93(50%)
|
lvl 93-----------------89-97(75%)
lvl 94-----------------90-98(100%)

so the best lvl is 94, its very hard way to lvl 94 though :clap: .
my highest char is still 93 :xquiet: .

possibility is just possibility, i dun mean u can get +2 ammy at every gamble
using 94 char.
so the more u lvl, the more u will get +2 skill. try lvling as possible as u can :thumbsup: .

hope u understand.

General_Hummel

28-12-2004, 00:06

oops i have to correct error myself.

lvl 93---------------89-97(87.5%)

erratta

28-12-2004, 05:41

-Tempus-

28-12-2004, 07:36

Hi.

I have a question.

I read here that to be able to have converted character in LOD hell, one must finish act2 hell classic.

When I rushed mule to act3 hell classic and then converted to LOD, the mule was in act3 hell LOD.... I was expecting the mule to be in act1 LOD after conversion.

The question: the information that one must finish 10 acts (i.e. to be in act3 hell classic) to be able to be in hell after conversion, how accurate is it?
I mean - where would mule be after conversion if I only rush:
a) up to act1 hell classic
b) up to act2 hell classic

The reason I'm asking is this - I'm having some difficulty in act2 ... not surprised, just started and am using lvl78 sorceress (fireball/orb) with not much (items wise) on her.

TIA

all you do is count the # of acts finshed. in D2C you have 4 acts in each lev of the game where in LOD you have 5. to start in act1 NM lod you need to finsh 5 acts in D2C or kill nm andy. to start in hell LOD you need to finsh 10 d2c acts or kill hell duriel and goto act3.

when you dont finsh the right # of acts in D2C before you move the char to lod you'll start in the lower lev game but once kill baal in that lower lev game and move to the next lev you will still have all the quests/waypoints that you had in d2c.

often its faster to move a char to LOD right when you get to act3 hell because its often faster to rush hell andy and cs with a stronger LOD char. you may also want to do those quests in LOD for the drops

-Tempus-

erratta

28-12-2004, 10:02

.... to start in hell LOD you need to finsh 10 d2c acts or kill hell duriel and goto act3.

that's the thing.. after I did 10 acts in d2c I'm not "starting" hell in LOD, I'm way into it .. I'm exactly where my character was in classic - in act3.

thanks for trying.. but.. the way you put it.. it's not clear...
where exactly would my mule be if I convert right after I start hell in d2c?

often its faster to move a char to LOD right when you get to act3 hell because its often faster to rush hell andy and cs with a stronger LOD char. you may also want to do those quests in LOD for the drops

hell andy (actually any difficulty andy) is bugged, I have the same drops no matter I completed the quest or not.. and the whole point of this exercise is not boss drops... but hell forge. As I said... I have no difficulty anywhere but act2 in d2c hell.

What do you mean by "cs"? chaos sanctuary? This is the way I'm reading it... but it makes no sense.... I'm not playing in LOD... I don't need to move anywhere after I got my forge drop.
To clear it up: I'm using my d2c sorc to rush my lvl 1 mule (2 computers) to
act3 hell, then convert (mule obviously, not sorc), then... use my LOD helper character to get this mule to the forge... do nightmare forge as well... delete the mule..

-Tempus-

29-12-2004, 02:56

that's the thing.. after I did 10 acts in d2c I'm not "starting" hell in LOD, I'm way into it .. I'm exactly where my character was in classic - in act3.
thats right, thats where you should start. if you only did 9 acts in D2C when you moved the char to LOD you would still be in NM. you would then have to take the red portal to act5 and kill baal. after that you can move onto hell. since you did act1 and maybe parts of act2 in D2C those quests will still be done and you can go back to right where you left off. since the game counts your acts you have to be in act3 hell D2C b4 you convert to lod to have that char be able to make/join hell games.

thanks for trying.. but.. the way you put it.. it's not clear...
where exactly would my mule be if I convert right after I start hell in d2c?
if you move the char right after you kill nm Diablo you will still start in nm LOD. you will need to kill baal in nm b4 you can get to a hell game.

hell andy (actually any difficulty andy) is bugged, I have the same drops no matter I completed the quest or not.. and the whole point of this exercise is not boss drops... but hell forge. As I said... I have no difficulty anywhere but act2 in d2c hell.
do you use tomb mules? thats the fastest way to get past act2 and there are a few ways to use them. one way is to have the mule do all the quests in act2 but not the arcane. what i do is this:
after you kill andy make a new game with tome mule.
take sorc and clear the way from palace to arcane (stay next to left wall) walk rush mule down to arcane wp. (only takes a min) once mule has wp the sorc will teleport around to find where the summoner is at. then clear a path back to the wp. that way the mule can get that quest. and can take a tp right to the tomb and chamber. after you make a tp kill duriel with sorc have the mule take the tp and then have the sorc leave the game. bring in a 2nd mule and party up b4 the first mule finshes the quest. that way you can get 2 mules past act2 at the same time.

-Tempus-

i take all mine to act5 hell so i can also get the socket quests. normal forge is good for crafting runes.

erratta

29-12-2004, 14:55

ok, that makes sense, thanks.

re crafting runes - quest 2 in act5 is what I use if not feeling lazy for low runes (only last 5 barbs have to be resqued by the character with open quest). Socket quest ... don't have the need (have few LOD mules with finished quest) and it doesn't take long to do normal (not hell) LOD rush to act 5 from scratch. I have enough problems as it is with the number of mules I have... that's why delete.

tomb mule - good idea, will try that.

MrDoc

30-12-2004, 08:58

I've been doing some classic rushes lately.
I can rush my 2 mules with my lvl 60 Meteorb sorc.

It takes only one hour to complete the rush (hell act2 done). Pretty fast, and pretty boring :lol:

It takes a lot of steps when you play alone, on 1 computer:

complete the quest
switch window
walk the mules
switch window
buy pots
next quest
switch window
Walk the mules
switch window
next quest
.....
etc etc etc. Ad nauseum! :xx:

I find that Frozen Orb works best. Powerful, fast, pierces, no need for synergies etc. Best rushing tool imho. I use it 99% of the time, except for coldworm(?) in maggot lair lvl3, he's cold immune. And sometimes Lord de Seis.

so my advice would be to use a max lvl Frozen orb, decent lvl cold mastery, and meteor or fireball as a backup.
Dont forget to put a few points in static if you want to be a bit safer.

Some people said you can't kill hell duriel with a sorc, well it's possible if you run fast, cast FO, run, cast FO, run ..... :xgrin:
It takes me about a minute to kill him like that. It's not that hard. (3 player game.... i've never tried more)
Thread of Chton helps a lot with the 30%FRW of course.

After the rush i convert both mules and my enigma lamerdin completes the remaining quests. (travi, meph, HF)
Two nightmare hellforges and two hell ones.

Total time: about 1h20

erratta

31-12-2004, 01:57

-Tempus-

31-12-2004, 06:26

more questions:

with tomb mule, why do we have to clean the path to arcane / summoner?

if this mule has stuff he can take tp to summoner with no problems... that's what I did and it worked. Open chamber, kill duriel, join with 3 more mules. Result - 4 mules ready to be converted in one go.

you cant take a tp to arcane unless you have the amulet. you cant take a tp to the tomb unless you have done the summoner. the point of tomb mules is you dont need to do all those quests each game. the tomb mule has done them all and has the wall open to duriel's chamber. for all those mules to get the quest one char needs to be down there to finsh the quest. the only way they can get down there is to walk (if they happen to have the last wp) or to have done the summoner.

if you play on an old patch you dont need to deal with the anti rush stuff blizzard added.

-Tempus-

erratta

31-12-2004, 09:51

you cant take a tp to arcane unless you have the amulet. you cant take a tp to the tomb unless you have done the summoner. the point of tomb mules is you dont need to do all those quests each game. the tomb mule has done them all and has the wall open to duriel's chamber. for all those mules to get the quest one char needs to be down there to finsh the quest. the only way they can get down there is to walk (if they happen to have the last wp) or to have done the summoner.

if you play on an old patch you dont need to deal with the anti rush stuff blizzard added.

-Tempus-
posted, then figured... (thanks anyway)..
but, it takes me less time to make other "tomb mule" (don't know what to call him.. he's not exactly tomb mule, as I'm using him right away).. I think, than walk to arcane / summoner.

erratta

31-12-2004, 09:58

Some people said you can't kill hell duriel with a sorc, well it's possible if you run fast, cast FO, run, cast FO, run ..... :xgrin:
It takes me about a minute to kill him like that. It's not that hard. (3 player game.... i've never tried more)
Thread of Chton helps a lot with the 30%FRW of course.

I used to run (actually was tele from corner to corner) from duriel too, then grew some confidence and just stand there .. spam static and drink pots, 1 fireball and he's dead.. takes few seconds..
In classic static works wonders ..

purplelocust

02-01-2005, 01:35

It's great to see interest in Classic- I prefer D2C to LOD but tried playing
more LOD this ladder season so I could play with Amazon Basin folks,
which has been great. I think I'll return to my Classic roots next ladder
reset, though, probably.

There have been a number of great comments about important differences
between LOD and Classic but one difference that I don't think has been
pointed out is with which auras affect Blessed Hammer damage. In LOD,
it's just concentration but in D2C it's Might, Concentration, and Fanaticism.
If there are two hammerdins in a game where one maxed one aura and
the other maxed one of the others, the damage is remarkable. If there are
three complementary ones, watch out- very impressive.

For solo hammerdin play, Fanaticism is the one to max since it has the
"+371% your damage" at lvl 20, vs "+230%" of lvl 20 might or
"+345%" for lvl 20 concentration.

A triple of fully synergized classic hammerdins with lvl 20 BH/Vigor/BA
under the influence of lvl 20 Might/Conc/Fanat would get:

(196-200 hammer damage) * (1+40*.14 from synergies ) *(1+3.71+2.3+3.45 from auras) = 13531-13807

Of couse, it's higher with gear affecting BH and auras- this would be
for 3 naked complementing hammerdins.

General_Hummel

02-01-2005, 13:36

u definitely misunderstand.

in 1.10 classic fana and might dont effect BH damage.
when u maxed fana and look at status screen, u feel wow wut a high damage!! but u wonder why it takes long time to kill monsters.
high damage is just on status screen, no effect to monsters in fact.

i have pally maxed fana and compared with both, so i can say above.
it was totally useless.
i heard in 1.09 classic fana and might do effect BH damage.

dont make a mistake when u make hammerdin.
max conc, no fana.

TheCerberus

03-01-2005, 18:17

-Tempus-

04-01-2005, 05:31

ya thats the display bug for BH. its been talked about off and on for a long time in different threads. per lod i had a might hammerdin that i would use when there was a conc hammerdin in the game. that was even before they added ed to fan. for a while fan did work with BH but not anymore. thats too bad since it was so fun to have 3 aura hammerdins going at the same time. that worked better then what you can do now with max aim/vigor.

there were a few good posts about just how much dmg you could do in D2C with the best items, using all 3 auras and then a barb and skill shrines on everyone.

-tempus-

pncwd

05-01-2005, 14:26

Tempus I had posted over here before, but wasn't sure that it would be a place to post a statistics type question, that is why I went to the other forum. But since you have pointed that out here it is, along with a few other questions.

1. Ok soj drop question,
In LOD the first place that you can find an soj is Norm lvl Diablo. To drop an soj the mlvl has to be 39 I do beleive. Now what about classic, Is the same mlvl needed to drop an soj, and if so then where is the first lvl 39 in classic.

2. Was spectral shard drop question but I just happen to have norm D drop one for me this morning so nvm about that one.

3. I am making a cold/fire sorc and was wondering what is the best shield that I can get for her. Do rare shields come with +1 to skills at all, or would it be better just to get a 3os shield and put 3 pdiamonds in it for the resist all. BTW I need the resistance.

4. I plan on using th spectral shard because of the fcr on it, but is this the best way to get the fcr, or would it be better to go a different route. Right now I have 2 10% fcr rings and the spectral shard. I know that there is still a time delay on certain cold and fire skills but I would still like to have the fcr.

5. What is the best way to accumulate alot of mana, right now at lvl 46 I have like 300 mana. But I have 100 in energy, and wear a helm with one psap and one chipped sap (dont ask it was a mistake) in it.

6. With the items that you may recomend can you also tell me what I should be looking to pay for them provided I cant find them.

7. Also where is the first place that I can start looking to get an ammy with + to all skills. Also can you get a +2 to all skills ammy in classic. What would be the best unique ammy that I could get, and where should I start looking to get it.

8. Thanks for you responses in advance, and thanks Tempus for redirecting me this way again.

TheCerberus

05-01-2005, 16:25

some questions
3. Use a 3-socket tower shield for block, or 3-socket large shield to save on strength. The Ward, a unique shield, is also good because it requires maybe 60 strength, gives up to 50 resistances and 10 strength. Sigon's Shield is the only one with +1 skills.

4. Sorceress breakpoint is 65/105, for practical purposes I believe. So Shard (50) + 2 rings covers you on the first breakpoint, and you can use frosties for mana, bloodfists for life, chancies for MF, or rares for resist and any ammy you want. If you want the second, you need shard/magefists/eyeless/2 rings/ammy, all with FCR. Its not worth it. You can also hit the 65 BP if you use magefist, 2 rings, ammy, and a wand with 20 FCR. People sometimes do this because the wand can have life, mana, and 2 high resists.

5. Adding energy gives like 3 mana per point for sorcs i believe. But I wouldn't do that. Use 3-saph helms, shard, wands with mana, frostburns have % mana, so do SoJs. Heavenly Garb, the uniq armor, adds 15 energy I think. Get it from rares also.

7. Hell Diablo drops +2 amulets, or you can gamble starting at lvl 84/86. I'd wait til 86 however. +1 amulets can be found a lot, dunno when. Unique amulet thats +1 is eye of etlich, but mahim-oak is better, it gives 10 all stats. Very good ammy.

I'll let some others help you on the rest.

purplelocust

05-01-2005, 22:45

That is correct.

Aha- thanks for the correction. Now I know why MongoJerry calls it
the LCS=Lying Character Screen...

Fearlessone

06-01-2005, 05:26

Lately, it seems everyone recommends a 3-psapphire helm. Where did the knowledge about 3 pskulled helms go? Back a few years ago it was the helm of choice for some of the very highest sorc and necros. Remember, this gives +57% mana regen (100% mana regen with testing shows that the mana ball will really fill up twice as fast). Now with only 300 mana - before BO - 3 psaph might be best. However, when u get that +1 sorc pris ammy with 59 mana and 2 10% fcr rings with 40-60 mana, and u level up (automatically more mana awarded) and add energy, and maybe even find some 30% run boots with 35-40 mana (and perhaps resists too!), and 40% onto mana frosties, and get a nice BLUE mage plate, suddenly u will have like over 450-500 mana ++ . Is there a breakpoint where the pskulled helm is better?

That may depend on ur playing style, if u use mana in short bursts on a boss, then the 8 mana pots in ur belt are enough. But, if u run with groups and are constantly orbing, bliz, static, tele, fireballs to get around all the immunities, u may need a good bit of regen to avoid taking trips to town every 5 screens.
With the pdiamond shield setup, and no soj's(yet), and some of the items already described, the 3 pskull helm is a great place to dump all ur mana regen.

Most hi lvl sorcies use shard and the mana shield (overhead gold ball). The +50 mana, 10% resistall and 50% fcr is just UNresistable.

Collecting pgems and pskulls is good for trading stuff. Shard falls frequently, any other good unneeded unique can be used to trade for one. Getting 10% fcr rings with high mana and a good resist are very very difficult. It takes months to find, or trade with someone who doesnt know what they have found. Three socket towers are cheap, maybe free. Plus +1 sorc ammys are quite common, but with pris will require an equally nice item to trade. Magical +2 sorc ammys are super easy to get from super hi lvls who gamble lots and need to get rid of them. A top of the line mageplate with 24% fhr, hi mana, dual resists and maybe some def and dex/str require a top-of-the-line trading item. The very best rares are always more valuable than the best uniques, even an soj., in classic.

TheCerberus

06-01-2005, 16:49

Well I typically use Garb + Magefists, thats 50% regeneration there. But mainly people are only using 3-saphs when they don't have much mana, so the regen wouldn't really help, or when they're using high lvl e-shield.

Taft12

06-01-2005, 21:49

3. Use a 3-socket tower shield for block, or 3-socket large shield to save on strength. The Ward, a unique shield, is also good because it requires maybe 60 strength, gives up to 50 resistances and 10 strength. Sigon's Shield is the only one with +1 skills.

Regarding shields, there are only really 3 considerations for any char, and the first 2 are pretty easy to get:
1) Sigon's - has the highest block % in Classic and +1 skills. It's the best choice unless you have really low resists that are holding you back.

2) The Ward - 30-50% resists -- anything from the low 40s up is superior to a 3-diamond tower IMHO. The blocking % is better than a 3DT and it is lighter which means faster movement and less stamina drain.

3) Rare Bone/Grim shield with +20% Block - getting this to spawn with FHR and a couple good resists is probably the best for most chars. +1 or 2 Pally skills would be the icing on a godly cake :)

TheCerberus

08-01-2005, 20:21

For a hardcore paladin, I'd take 3-socket tower over any of those. One, I won't need block or FBR, thanks to Holy Shield. And the extra resistances come in handy when dealing with Conviction. Very cheap as well.

In my opinion, the best shield ever for a Paladin, specifically in PvP:
Rare Grim Shield
+2 Paladin
30% Resist Lightning
20% Resist All
17 Faster Hit Recovery
+15 Strength
+5 Life Regeneration

For a smiter, make it Barbed, with 100% defense instead of lightning, and rule melee.

FireMarshal

13-01-2005, 06:52

FireMarshal

14-01-2005, 01:33

Linking to hack sites = instaban.

Gorny

14-01-2005, 14:36

Linking to hack sites = instaban.

Also known as instant PK.

Which Ferd has been, permanently.

Not being aware of the rules here is no excuse to break them.

Taft12

14-01-2005, 22:19

I saw that post yesterday before it was banned, I had a feeling it was coming seeing as they were selling items for money with such realistic stats as 20% FHR on rare boots.

-Tempus-

15-01-2005, 03:06

Wowowow, its been a long time since I visited these forums. And as soon as I saw this thread, I reinstalled D2, and am about to make my first D2 char in quite a while.

yes, I read every page here. :)

I am going an easy way to start. Fireball/Orb Sorc. From what I can tell, its probably best to put most points in vit., points in str for gear, dex if I find a shard(hold off on this) :rolleyes: . My main question, how much energy should I pump?

If anyone wants to join me:

USWEST-Ladder(I want to avoid the dupes)
*firemarshal

make a long post for you the other day but it didnt seem to work. so here is part of it again....

fire/ball works very well in d2c but you'll also want points in Static Field. 1 min but the more you have the longer the range will be. with only 1 point here you need to be right next to the monsters to do any dmg but with 20-28 SF you can do a full screen of monsters at a time.

with the cold tree you could go a few different ways. 1 icebolt, 20 orb, 1 mastery. with the rest of your points going into firebolt/fb/mastery. but you'll want to go back and drop more points in cold mastery or use +skill items to get its % close to -100%. if you find you use orb more then FB then you can go with max icebolt/orb and 1 point mastery but i've found that doesnt work as well as 1 icebolt, 20 orb, high lev mastery. for the most cold dmg you would want to go max icebolt/orb/mastery but thats over kill unless you also want to PVP some. the problem with that is you dont have as many points for FB. one way to save some points is to go firewall/mastery. you could also try a higher dmg fire build then drop 20 points into blizzard. but over all orb/fb/static works very well.

for stats on most of my sorcs i try and keep str/dex at base and drop all my points into vit or energy. going with 41-45 base str will let you use garb and magefist. if you want to use frostburns then you could str from your other items. dex i like to keep base even when i use a shard. you can get the dex needed for that off set items. i dont like the way energy shield works in 1.10 (takes too many points and element dmg) so i do high vit builds. to make up for base or very low base energy i'll use sojs or +mana items. using a 3 p gem helm is a great way to pick up 114 mana or life.

-Tempus-

FireMarshal

15-01-2005, 04:26

Thanks for the great response! Ive reached 26 now....will work on it more. I had already planned on going mostly vit build. We'll see how it turns out.

Invitus

15-01-2005, 14:11

WOW! Finally, somebody doing fireball orb sorc too! I also did that, i nearly fot a spectral shard today by trading through a blood crescent scimitar! ARGHH! I also need wall of the eyeless perhaps?

TheCerberus

15-01-2005, 17:28

WOW! Finally, somebody doing fireball orb sorc too! I also did that, i nearly fot a spectral shard today by trading through a blood crescent scimitar! ARGHH! I also need wall of the eyeless perhaps?
Eyeless isn't need unless you really, really need mana or you want the last BP for some reason. Otherwise Shard + magefists/2 rings/ring and ammy works fine.

Invitus

16-01-2005, 09:37

-Tempus-

16-01-2005, 12:00

Today, i bought the arch-angel thingy, add 2 to all sorc skill leves :) Well, i am trying to get magefist, and i couldnt get spectral shard, perhaps I could get a socketed helm and add perfect sapphires into that?

its easy to get +2 staffs from the NPC's and even +2 +3 something if you look a lot. to get a rare staff with the right mods takes a long time. one of the best ways to use energy shield is to find a +5 staff, that way you dont need to spend the 4 points to get lev 1 energy shield and you can put those points into something else (if you even want to use ES)

3 socket helms are easy to find, just run around in a cow game and pick them up. the things you put in the helm depends on what you want to do, its not a bad idea to have a few of them.
3 p skulls: reg life/mana
3 p topaz: 72%mf
3 p rubies: 114 life
3 p saphires: 114 mana

-Tempus-

psycho.hatred

17-01-2005, 00:22

Does anyone here play west classic nl or east classic nl?
Im playing east mainly but just started west a week ago, so im pretty new in west.
I could give some uniques in east and a rush if someone needs help.
And I could use a rush in west too :D

Just wanna ask if we can talk about dupes since classic nl players use em.
well, that's all.

Taft12

17-01-2005, 00:42

Just wanna ask if we can talk about dupes since classic nl players use em.
well, that's all.

Absolutely not, find another board for that trash. Shouldn't be too tough to find one.

FireMarshal

17-01-2005, 01:07

Just wanna ask if we can talk about dupes since classic nl players use em.
well, that's all.

I chose to play on LADDER to specifically avoid this.

Gorny

17-01-2005, 01:37

Just wanna ask if we can talk about dupes since classic nl players use em.
well, that's all.

Discussing dupes on the forums is allowed, to some extent. Though the discussion of how to make, where to get ( including linking to any site that carries, sells, or in any way pushes/supports the use of ANY dupes is not allowed and it is a bannable offense, with no warning.)

Also, offering any known dupe in any trade on these forums is an instant, permanent ban. The trade forums have "do not trade lists" and "known dupe lists" also for reference, any and all 1.08 items, whatever they may be are not tradeable on these forums.

Any futhere questions, feel free to see the Community Rules thread ( acessed via the link in my signature, or feel free to send a PM to my self or one of the trade forum mods for explanation on the DNT and Dupes lists.

-Tempus-

17-01-2005, 05:45

Discussing dupes on the forums is allowed, to some extent. Though the discussion of how to make, where to get ( including linking to any site that carries, sells, or in any way pushes/supports the use of ANY dupes is not allowed and it is a bannable offense, with no warning.)

Also, offering any known dupe in any trade on these forums is an instant, permanent ban. The trade forums have "do not trade lists" and "known dupe lists" also for reference, any and all 1.08 items, whatever they may be are not tradeable on these forums.

Any futhere questions, feel free to see the Community Rules thread ( acessed via the link in my signature, or feel free to send a PM to my self or one of the trade forum mods for explanation on the DNT and Dupes lists.

[/quote]I chose to play on LADDER to specifically avoid this.[quote]

i'm sure you can find dupes on all realms, NL Ladder, SC HC, D2C LOD. blizzard has never done a good job of fixing that problem and i dont think they ever will. the "ladder" HC is one of the best ways to keep away from them but it just comes down to you can choose not to use them. chances are anyone asking for rares by name they will be dupes. the DNT list should have many of them but i'm sure there are more.

not only cant you trade for for 1.08 items but anything per 1.09 in the marketplace/forums. since i've never lost my chars since D2 came out i still have almost all my old items. its always fun to make a lev 1 char with +6 skills or a lev 6 char using a bonesnap (per lod uniqs have no lev req) but i also have a ton of old set items that done have the green bonus that newer items have. they are junk but i keep them since i'm a packrat. the same goes for many other items, the lev req on many items back then wasnt the same. you could have a +1 amulet at lev 22 where its 27 now, +2 mod on staffs, scepeters, wands is now 45 where it use to be lev 30 or even lev 4 7%ML rings. you could have stuff like that and not even know it wasnt a 1.10 item unless you have been around for a long time.

funny thing about old dupes is they arent "best" items. there have always been better items out there that are legit but people that have them dont go around showing everyone them. thats one of the many reasons why i hate MH so much, so many people think there isnt any problem if they look at your items. its always been that they will look at your items then ask you how much for this or that. they also do that before they pk you. if you have junk items they pk you, if you have better items they try and trap you. if you have great items they use to try and pop you so they could get your items... joys of battlenet

btw psycho.hatred my D2C chars are all USWest SCNL

-Tempus-

psycho.hatred

17-01-2005, 08:58

I chose to play on LADDER to specifically avoid this.

i'm sure you can find dupes on all realms, NL Ladder, SC HC, D2C LOD. blizzard has never done a good job of fixing that problem and i dont think they ever will. the "ladder" HC is one of the best ways to keep away from them but it just comes down to you can choose not to use them. chances are anyone asking for rares by name they will be dupes. the DNT list should have many of them but i'm sure there are more.

not only cant you trade for for 1.08 items but anything per 1.09 in the marketplace/forums. since i've never lost my chars since D2 came out i still have almost all my old items. its always fun to make a lev 1 char with +6 skills or a lev 6 char using a bonesnap (per lod uniqs have no lev req) but i also have a ton of old set items that done have the green bonus that newer items have. they are junk but i keep them since i'm a packrat. the same goes for many other items, the lev req on many items back then wasnt the same. you could have a +1 amulet at lev 22 where its 27 now, +2 mod on staffs, scepeters, wands is now 45 where it use to be lev 30 or even lev 4 7%ML rings. you could have stuff like that and not even know it wasnt a 1.10 item unless you have been around for a long time.

funny thing about old dupes is they arent "best" items. there have always been better items out there that are legit but people that have them dont go around showing everyone them. thats one of the many reasons why i hate MH so much, so many people think there isnt any problem if they look at your items. its always been that they will look at your items then ask you how much for this or that. they also do that before they pk you. if you have junk items they pk you, if you have better items they try and trap you. if you have great items they use to try and pop you so they could get your items... joys of battlenet

btw psycho.hatred my D2C chars are all USWest SCNL

-Tempus-

cool. maybe I can catch you online?
what's your account name?
mine is *psycho.hatred

-Tempus-

18-01-2005, 01:38

i spend some gold gambling last night...
102 amulets @ 63k each: 6.426mill gold
lev 87 char
D2C SC NL
8 magic +1 skills amulets
11 rare amulets
1 magic +2 skills amulet
2 rare +2 skill amulets

i'd like to see what someone gets with higher lev chars

-Tempus-
spend more gold last night...
155 amulets @ 63k each: 9.765mill gold
lev 88 D2C SC NL
+1 magic: 8
+1 rare: 9
random rares: 10
+2 magic: 1
+2 rare: 2

i did 102 first and only had 1 +2 amulet, wasnt too happen about that so i spend the rest of the gold i had and picked up 2 more. still no luck on +2caster or +2 leech but i did get a nice +2 amz +9min and a nice +2 sorc with 40%L with a few other mods.

i'm was guessing i would have got a few more +2's maybe i'll have to lev that char even more

-Tempus-

TheCerberus

18-01-2005, 02:12

-Tempus-

18-01-2005, 04:51

I've got a dream PvP build I want to run by some NL players.

oh? what is it

-Tempus-

psycho.hatred

18-01-2005, 06:47

oh? what is it

-Tempus-

Builds never seen in classic? maybe light sorc or zeal?

oh and can I ask what's your acc name -Tempus- in west?

Frex

20-01-2005, 03:17

Heh, just noticed this thread. Just want to say it's nice to know some other people still play classic.

To be honest, I have never really done much playing on classic ever since the 1.10 patch was released. It totally changed the game enough for me to turn my back on it for a while to take a shot at the expansion world.

For one, nm dueling was totally wrecked. Back then, it consisted of lvl 30-50 people. Anyone who brought anything higher was frowned upon. Now, it's like I can't find a nm dueling game without seeing at least half of the game at least level 65.

Second, amazon duels were destroyed thanks to the no pierce change they made with guided. Ugh...

Tempus or anyone else who plays USWest NL SC - if you want to play, whisper me at *Frexerxpac or my classic account, "*Frexermule4". (no period in account name) I don't think you remember me Tempus, but I remember you from the marketplace. Account name was Gornix. It was probably over a year ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't remember.

Also, if you guys need some stuff, I'll see about doing some mfing later.

Fearlessone

21-01-2005, 03:18

Absolutely not, find another board for that trash. Shouldn't be too tough to find one.

During the peak of the duping sprees, just before 1.10 came out, I often examined stuff that top ladder chars were using in trade games. Before the worst of the duping, u guys may remember all the game instability and lag and disconnects, classic players usually didn't have dupes, the mh version that showed items was known to only a few, and a minority of the top players used dupes.

After duping became rampant, in a few months, nearly all the top players had access to dupes, and anyone who used legit items became known (because of the item show capabilities of mh), and was considered something of an oddball. I remember maybe 2-3 of the top 15 players in USWest classic were totally legit. That's about it.

One of the most annoying sora (cs tele and rush runners) persons, a guy named Matt who always chooses the most powerful builds available in a particular patch, saw my stuff with mh and was laughing and showed me some dupes he had and offered to exchange them for a few of my pskulls (this was when pskulls were strangely valuable for several cube formula's and godly dupes were super common). People like him always seem to CONTROL the tempo of games and what the status quo should be.

Incidentally, about 3 of the top 10 ladder people lost their lvl 97+ chars from the mh acct deletion. This wasnt the same as when an LOD char lost such a high level, now or then, it took over a year of constant playing hours a day to get that high in classic. Some of these people were using mh, i guess, to do bot runs (meph?) and got some super items. Others wanted to see the nasty bosses ahead to avoid death (which sucks at super hi lvls, but in softcore, u could still get to 99 without all this cheating). They were actually the nicest of the top players and added much to the realm. Surprise! Their deletion and subsequent giving up on the game really hurt classic, which is a small world where individual people DO count. Everyone talked about how the jerks with their dupes, and they used mh too, and who tore up good games by demanding everyone do the runs their way, how these people were somehow spared acct deletion. (Well, I know how, but won't say of course). So classic non-ladder, at the highest levels is dominated by such people. Be fore-warned.

I don't believe there is much duping in the current ladder. One always suspects so given the morbid history of this game...lol.

In NL classic realm, if an item is +13/14 str/dex and is all 6 godly stats, +2 skills item, near max damage possible and some good ias, it's probably a dupe. If a player u are trading with introduces a rare as "Blood Gorget" or "Hailstone Jack" or with such a trade name, and it's godly and he didnt find it, then its almost certainly a dupe. Soj's without a char lvl req are 99% + dupes. Funny that when u point out that they are not legit, they claim that these are "legit dupes", as if only weird hacked or bugged items are non-legit.

-Tempus-

21-01-2005, 18:21

"legit dupes", as if only weird hacked or bugged items are non-legit.
haha dont recall anyone calling them that.

the old no lev req uniqs are still around (other then sojs) i would guess the poeple that have been a round so long that they still have them dont spend that much time in public games but lev in private.

the big problem with d2 is blizzard has never done as much has they should to stop this kind of thing from going on. i dont play WoW but if i where to pay to play a game (d3 maybe) they better prove that there is no way hack/dupe stuff there.

when the ITH stuff was going on in LOD i know of many people that came back to D2C just to duel with legit people.

-Tempus-

psycho.hatred

22-01-2005, 12:37

Ive seen some dupes in the east realm. and theyre in ladder....
theyre the dupes in nl, somehow nl chars could join ladder games or the other way around. ive heard that from someone, after then there was a short realm down...

zrk

22-01-2005, 16:12

psycho.hatred

22-01-2005, 18:12

-Tempus-

23-01-2005, 02:25

im making a hammerdin in classic and im wondering if 55 strength that i currently have is enough or too much. i dont have any l33t items. im only level 23 right now so i dont mind if i have to start over.

what items do you wish to use?
silk needs 100 str
goldskin needs 80 str
garb needs 41 str
magefist needs 45
frostburns need 60
a tower shield needs 75
some scepters or battle hammers need 100 str

55 str is a good place to stop untill you need more str. i'd drop all your points into vit untill its around 200. if you have no mana items you may need to drop points into energy. my D2C hammerdins (and many of my other chars) all have sojs or good mana rings, but when they go with a high MF setup they run out of mana fast. so i had to drop points into energy. most have 50,75,100 base energy. i find ~400 mana is good for a hammerdin, if you have more or less you j ust need to use more pots or redemption / meditation.

dex should also be base for a hammerdin. if you want to use a shard try and get the dex needed to use that from your items.

-Tempus-

Invitus

23-01-2005, 08:23

For my FireballOrb sorc, after getting a +2 to all skills staff, and yesterday, this guy, gave me an ammy for free, adds 2 to all sorc skills, my sorc is pretty powerful now, lvl 24 orb!
Question:
Should i get cold mastery? Because it just breaks the resistence, but it wont increase the damage? And since the max resist breaking is 85% percent, and there are no synergy(if i remember correctly) Is it really worth getting, i know it is really important for ice sorc only, so if you get cold mastery, you can just single tree cold based attacks?
Should i max your fireball, fire mastery first, then go for cold mastery, because fireball is on my left click attack, and orb is on my right hand, and when there are cold immunes, i just get me fireball and start spamming them.

THe answers are pretty obvious actually, but just asking for advice

guns1inger99

23-01-2005, 08:43

I'm currently building a sorc to do hell forges. She's currently at level 28, so its pretty tough for me at the moment. She'll concentrate on static, frozen orb, and fireball for skills.

Here's the gear I've decided to put on her:

Spectral Shard
3p diamond Tower Shield
Magefist gloves
Tarnhelm helmet
Tearhaunch greaves (don't have yet)
Nightsmoke belt (don't have yet)
Goldskin armor (don't have yet)
+2 skill ammy (don't have yet)
2 sojs

This setup will give me 72 resist all in hell. I might go with silks armor if I can find a +2 skill ammy with good resist. But that will still drop my resist down.

I have found sig shield, swordback hold shield, 30 mf nagel ring, and hellplague sword. The problem is I don't know what this stuff is worth. Any idea if I could get some of my needed gear with this stuff? I'll probably would like to keep the nagel ring for mf runs. (I want to hunt for soj's in classic).

I also don't know what uniques are available in classic. Is the peasant crown available?

psycho.hatred

23-01-2005, 09:29

only uniques in classic are normal uniques.
ammies:
nokozan relic
eye of etlitch
mahim
rings:
nagelring
manald
soj

zrk

23-01-2005, 09:36

One more question: i cant seem to put a point into holy shield, although i have put points into holy bolt and blessed hammer which are the prerequesites. DO i also have to put a point into charge and smite in order to get holy shield? :xx:

theBlackKnight

23-01-2005, 18:12

hottystarfish

23-01-2005, 19:09

wow. thats just sad. have any of you played clasic for more then a year>?
2? 4? if so you should know alot more about nox.

psycho.hatred

24-01-2005, 03:54

wow. thats just sad. have any of you played clasic for more then a year>?
2? 4? if so you should know alot more about nox.

3 years and counting.

Chekr

24-01-2005, 05:23

I just made a classic sorc earlier today. now she's level 20 and in act 3. I kinda need guidance on where/how to get equipment for her. I've seen what good sets of equipment are but i have no way of getting ahold of any of it.

Should i just try to level by joining cow games enough to where i can run bosses for gear?

All i'm really after is a level 65 or so rushing sorc so i can get hell hellforge in LoD ... but just by playing classic as long as i have i've gotten hooked. Might end up with a couple good chars on here after a while.

BTW, she's a fireball/orb sorc. Seems pretty popular, so it must be good.

psycho.hatred

24-01-2005, 09:56

-Tempus-

24-01-2005, 10:02

hottystarfish: i've been around a lot longer then most and i have no idea what a "nox" is

guns1inger99: all those items are good and would make for good 2nd item setup. going with all rare item setup works too but if you just use the full iratha's finery. that gives you most of the dex you need to use a shard, the full set doesnt take that much str and you can get some of that off boots. that will also let you use a low str shield (rare or 3d) and any 2 rings you want. you can also use a good +2 +something staff while using that set. you can also go with any plate you happen to find.

Invitus: you should always have 1 point min in coldmastery. if you go pvp then max it. for pvm its helps if you have it at +10 after items. how well that works depends on if you play in solo games or if you try and solo in full games. if you find you use FB more then orb then you can save more points by only going with 1point in icebolt/mastery. that lets you use more points in the fire tree. if you find you use orb more then FB drop more points into cold mastery and or icebolt. you could use 60 points and max icebolt/orb/coldmastery and still not kill as fast as a sorc with 20 SF and only 20 orb, 1 icebolt/mastery. with high lev SF you can do a full screen of monsters, if you also have a lot of fcr you'll do more dmg that way then to just orb monsters. casting 1 orb then 2-3 SF then an orb has always worked well.

also if you want to use ES, any cold armor, Tstorm keep an eye open for staffs with +5 in that spell. thats a great way to power up those skills that dont need to be recast all the time.

Chekr: at very low levs you can always just run normal/nm highcouncil and andy. save perfect gems and make a 72%mf helm then shop at the npc's for mf gloves/boots. pickup magic rings and id them, many will have mf mods with a max of 40% thats a good place to start for a mf setup. later as you buildup your setup you can get over 400% mf

-Tempus-

zrk

24-01-2005, 14:34

Is crown the only helm that can have 3 sockets? i have read that masks and bone helms can have 3 sockets too but im not sure

Fearlessone

24-01-2005, 22:29

Is crown the only helm that can have 3 sockets? i have read that masks and bone helms can have 3 sockets too but im not sure

No, in classic bone helms are only 2 sockets. I think there are 3 or so different helms that have 3 sockets, great helms, crowns and masks and their exceptional versions, winged, grand crown and death masks. Str req vary. The defense is only significant with perhaps a good barb shout.

-Tempus-

24-01-2005, 22:31

Is crown the only helm that can have 3 sockets? i have read that masks and bone helms can have 3 sockets too but im not sure

crown, great helm, mask can all have 3 (and the exceptional version of those). rest are only 2

so if your char has high str or needs good def use an sup exceptional helm, if you have low str use a normal one.

-Tempus-

TheCerberus

25-01-2005, 00:43

crown, great helm, mask can all have 3 (and the exceptional version of those). rest are only 2

so if your char has high str or needs good def use an sup exceptional helm, if you have low str use a normal one.

-Tempus-
Masks have lower str reqs, but are so ugly.
Hammerdin build:
Mahim Oak
The Ward/3 Socket Kite
Goldskin
Hot Spurs
Bladebuckle
Shard
Duskdeep
Magefists
2x rare rings

Wambat

26-01-2005, 02:13

Lately, it seems everyone recommends a 3-psapphire helm. Where did the knowledge about 3 pskulled helms go? ... Is there a breakpoint where the pskulled helm is better?

+57% to mana regen means your mana regen/second is equivalent to if you had 57% more mana than you have. As such a 3pshelm will be superior to a 3pskull helm; in terms or real mana regen; until your mana-pool (without the helm) is 200. Personally, I would rather have the mana than the regen for several reasons:

1. I do not look at a 3SO Helm as an endgame item. There are much more important things than mana to get from your helmet, like resists, +skills, and FCR. As nice as mana is it is mearly a convinience; you can always get pots. I look at the 3SO Helm as a mid-level item, to be used when you probably don’t have 200 mana yet.

2. Only in the presence of a high level meditation aura (which are now pervasive in LoD) have I seen my mana pool fill up so quickly that I have no need of pots. Mana regen is only useful if it can replace the need for pots, and even 100% mana regen is not going to do that for a sorc; 1000 mana will, and you are more likely to achieve something near this than 100% mana regen in classic. If you are a melee char then ML will do you much better than regen any day.

3. Unlike psapphires, pskulls are a commodity in classic; I still haven't figured out why, unless people are using duped soj's to socket equipment (I guess that's got to be it). You will benefit a lot more from the items you can get from pskulls than you will from the pskulls themselves.

zrk

26-01-2005, 15:59

Ok, i got a shard, magefists and some other goodies for my hammerdin. I use the mask of horror as a helmet so i get 10 to all resists and 20 strength from it. But what items should i use to get my dexterity from 20 to 51, so i can use shard

Gorny

26-01-2005, 16:12

Is a hammerdin in classic as effective as in LOd 1.10 ?

I did not think so ?

Wambat

26-01-2005, 17:46

Is a hammerdin in classic as effective as in LOd 1.10 ?

I did not think so ?

I think the only build that is, arguably, "more" effect in classic than it is in LoD is the sorc with her unrestricted SF. Other than that, the vastly better quality of items in LoD makes a significant improvement in every conceivable build.

In terms of relative effectiveness, the hammerdin is still the easiest and most universally capable build in classic, but has fallen behind the sorc in absolute supremacy do to the lack of SF restrictions and no enigmas. Hammerdins still have maxed vigor so they are the next fastest build to sorcs; barbs might be better since they can jump, but they are too vulnerable to the IM curse to be viable in cs.

Wambat

26-01-2005, 18:02

I am new to classic and am only just realizing the power of SF in this game. Coming from LoD, I am not in the habit of putting more than one point in this skill; in LOD it is only used against bosses and your merc is always there to cover you from blows so the short range is not significant. I was very worried when I realized that my meteorb sorc would not be able to solo D because I would have no merc to kill the the Lord De Seis. Imagine my surprise when I SFed him down to one health in nightmare and then TKed him to death!

My problem is that I was following the LoD meteorb cookie-cutter. I have been reading here that a lvl 28 SF will affect everything on the screen, like an area effect spell, but now I don't have the skill points to max SF.

I have never tried to use this skill on more than one monster at a time; does it really affect all monsters within the radius?

Do I have to make sure I activate the spell by clicking on empty space?

Is the spell applied differently to uniques and bosses; if I attack a unique directly with this skill will it not affect the monsters around him?

If I can really reduce every monster on the screen to a sliver of health with this skill, then there is no reason to get monstrous synergies going in the cold or fire trees since you will only need these skills to remove the last sliver of health, right?

Will SF work through walls/doors?

If this is true I am going to have to start my sorc all over again, and take a whole new look how to build classic sorcs.

-Tempus-

26-01-2005, 23:13

Is a hammerdin in classic as effective as in LOd 1.10 ?

I did not think so ?

conc works 100% with BH in D2C vs only 50% in LOD. with an all +skill setup a D2C hammerdin can do 15k dmg. normal dmg for a hammerdin would be 7-8k with most setups.

zrk:
you can look for rare boots, belts, amuelts, rings that all have +dex on them or use the full Iratha's set gives 25 dex.

how did you make your meteorb sorc? max all the fire tree then drop the rest into orb? or did you save 19 points in the fire tree with only 1 point firebolt. the problem with D2C is its going to take a very long time to get to lev 90 so most builds you make in D2C wont use 110 skill points. thats why its a good idea to save as many points as you can with most builds. thats one reason why i like to get ES from a staff. those 4 points you save there can just go into TK or SF.

when i cast SF i'll click on a monster or just cast it while i hold Shift key. SF works on all monsters within its range.

-Tempus-

Wambat

26-01-2005, 23:15

I am thinking of making my classic mule barb useful, i.e. a singer. What is the best equipment; thinking uniques/sets; to give the best BO. Also, what attack skill should I use? Berserk?

Wambat

26-01-2005, 23:24

conc works 100% with BH in D2C vs only 50% in LOD. with an all +skill setup a D2C hammerdin can do 15k dmg. normal dmg for a hammerdin would be 7-8k with most setups.

Do we have confirmation of this? Have tests been done? Are we sure this is not another case of the LCS?

theBlackKnight

27-01-2005, 00:37

Do we have confirmation of this? Have tests been done? Are we sure this is not another case of the LCS?

Im pretty damn sure its easily 15k, I saw a pally 4-5 hit kill 8 players diablo.

TheCerberus

27-01-2005, 01:05

I am thinking of making my classic mule barb useful, i.e. a singer. What is the best equipment; thinking uniques/sets; to give the best BO. Also, what attack skill should I use? Berserk?
Hammerdin can reach about 16.7k damage, much more on Character screen with fanatacism and might, but that is only listed damage, not actual.

BO Barb: 2 +2 axes, +2 ammy, berserker's armor/silks, 2 Sojs, tarnhelm, battle command, 20 battle orders = 31 BO

Berserk is terrible in classic, i speka from experience. Use whirlwind, maybe frenxy. Whirlwind is easiest.

-Tempus-

27-01-2005, 10:15

I am thinking of making my classic mule barb useful, i.e. a singer. What is the best equipment; thinking uniques/sets; to give the best BO. Also, what attack skill should I use? Berserk?

i made my BO barb to go with my enchant sorc. i made him like this
max shout
max bo
max b command
1 taunt, battle cry, rest going into warcry (only for stun)
1 point mace mastery
1 point bash, stun, conc, zerk
1 skin, NR
1 pot find, FI

he uses a full +skill setup but has a 2nd setup when i want him to kill stuff.
stealdriver/bonesnap
twitch
goldwrap
deaths gloves/belt
sigs hat, gloves, belt, boots
Gtoe boots

i went with 60 base str with the rest going into vit. with lev 31 skills he works very well for what he was made for.

i was going to a 2nd one to work with him that had max howl, taunt, battlecry, warcry. since he could get bo/shout from the other barb.

TheCerberus: why dont you like zerk in D2C? its a must have skill for a barb to kill phy imms. if you only have 1 point in zerk without anything in shout you'll need a high dmg weapon to do much dmg. if you have max shout with only 1 point zerk then you'll do nice dmg still. but you still need good IAS to hit fast. thats why even with a stealdriver/bonesnap i still like to add 60% ias and if you can a cant be frozen item to the build.

-Tempus-

Nirlem

27-01-2005, 18:39

Wambat

27-01-2005, 20:37

Berserk is terrible in classic, i speka from experience. Use whirlwind, maybe frenxy. Whirlwind is easiest.

My greatest concern was loosing my barb to IM (I am HC). Since I wouldn't need him to kill lots of things at once; that's what my sorc is for; I thought zerk would be the safest attack. This way I can use concentrate most of the time and switch to zerk for CS runs.

I am not planing on sticking more than one point in any skill other than BO and its synergies, so I only need to level him to about 70.

-Tempus-

27-01-2005, 21:47

i started playing classic today, but im a bit curious.

i have had so many failed to join games, massives lag spikes and so on.
is classic worse to play then lod? or did i just time it bad? :P

also i would like general advice on at what lvl i go to wich place for good exp. when i goto NM and so on.

and last what kind of things do i keep to try and trade for some usefull items?

LAG=joys of bnet

untill around lev 26 you want to stay on maps where monsters are very close to the same lev as you ( +-5)
so stay in act1 untill ~12-15
do sewers untill ~15
do arcane untill low 20's
try flayer untill 25 or so
run a few cow games untill ~30
once you are 30 goto any place you like that you can kill on. i like to hit nm arcane around there if my char is that strong.

save P skulls, some set items, some uniqs and good rares.

-Tempus-

-Tempus-

27-01-2005, 21:57

My greatest concern was loosing my barb to IM (I am HC). Since I wouldn't need him to kill lots of things at once; that's what my sorc is for; I thought zerk would be the safest attack. This way I can use concentrate most of the time and switch to zerk for CS runs.

I am not planing on sticking more than one point in any skill other than BO and its synergies, so I only need to level him to about 70.

old school (per lod) barbs didnt die to IM in the CS. you need to play smart if you want to lev there. you dont take some 300 dmg weapon and ww all you like in there. you take a lower dmg weapon with higher leech. you dont ww right into a pack of monsters, you ww the edge of the pack and pick off a few monsters at a time (to take out the mages first) using taunt/howl in the CS is always a good way to control how many monsters you fight at one time.

if you are going to use conc/zerk build then you shouldnt have much of a problem down there. ww is harder to use down there because you will hit so many more monsters (and not be able to stop) in the middle of your attack. were with conc you will only hit 1 monster at a time.

if you max both bo/shout you will also get good dmg with conc/zerk but it would be best to max them all. mastery, bo, shout, conc, zerk

-Tempus-

TheCerberus

28-01-2005, 00:34

Wambat

28-01-2005, 18:17

I went with a max Berserk build. I know 1 pt. for PIs is a necessity, but using it as your main skill is a pain. If you do use it, go axes. They're faster than hammers, with good damage. And the only place a HC baba should worry is in the CS, but you can provide Shout/BO. If you have gtoes on, and whirl without a weapon but just gtoes and sback, that could work. Maybe get a crushflange for more CB? I don't know if CB and OW reflect back from IM.

From my experience, so long as you are not carrying a weapon IM will not reflect upon you no matter how much damage you are doing, or what type of damage.

My greatest concern here is that my combat skill be effective without skill investment. I will only be putting one skill point in whatever offensive skill I give my barb. I am looking at concentration/berserk as a non-item dependant way of making my barb effective.

One other thing: Why axe or hammer, and not sword? Currently the only good weapons I have are swords, so I was leaning towards that. Rare swords can get the +2 to barb skills, just like axes, and the only one-hand weapon I know of with +1 all skills is a sword; I am betting I will find that long before I find a +2 to barb skills weapon of any type. Please feel free to correct my misconceptions.

TheCerberus

29-01-2005, 01:27

From my experience, so long as you are not carrying a weapon IM will not reflect upon you no matter how much damage you are doing, or what type of damage.

My greatest concern here is that my combat skill be effective without skill investment. I will only be putting one skill point in whatever offensive skill I give my barb. I am looking at concentration/berserk as a non-item dependant way of making my barb effective.

One other thing: Why axe or hammer, and not sword? Currently the only good weapons I have are swords, so I was leaning towards that. Rare swords can get the +2 to barb skills, just like axes, and the only one-hand weapon I know of with +1 all skills is a sword; I am betting I will find that long before I find a +2 to barb skills weapon of any type. Please feel free to correct my misconceptions.

Culwen's Point is the sword you're talking about, I believe. Some sorceresses use it when they don't make heavy use of teleport and want +skills. It has very low damage, so a higher damage weapon would do better for you. Also, swords in general have very high requirements. Executioner is 170/110 I believe? Naga is 125/0 and Battle Hammer is 100/0. Since Executioner can also go 2 handed, Ancient Axe is 125/0, a Martel is 169/0 I believe. I wouldn't even use a Martel on a PvM barbarian. Bonesnap or Steeldriver are EXCELLENT choices; Bonesnap has 60 strength required, Crushing Blow, resists... very good weapon, and very cheap. In fact, you can find a +2 weapon much faster than Culwen's. Pick your highest character, go to Act 2 Hell, go to Ormus, and look at his weapons. See if there are any +2 Crystal Swords. If not, exit his shop, go out of town to Spider Forest, and run back in. Rinse and repeat until you've found 1 or 2 swords.

Here is a build for HC Whirlwind that would fare well under any circumstances, and be very safe. Axes are my preferred weapon for a barb, due to their all around excellency, but hammers do just as well in PvM for a better price.

lvl 75 Barbarian = 86 skills w/ quests
- 20 Mace Mastery, 9 Natural Resists, 1 Increased Stamina, Increased Speed, Iron Skin
- 20 Whirlwind, 1 Berserk, Concentration, Leap Attack, Leap, Bash, Stun
- 20 Battle Orders, 1 Battle Command, War Cry, Battle Cry, Taunt, Howl, Shout, Find Potion, Find Item

Nirlem

29-01-2005, 01:43

TheCerberus

29-01-2005, 02:27

ok after three days playing classic i have to say:

I have never ever seen a worse place.
Every single player i have meet/played with is totally Stupid/ignorant/badmouthed/selfish

Doing the quests in a game like act2 all quests, lvl40 player joins...5 minutes later "game closes in 60 seconds!"

Co-operation does not exist! (i want more experience myself)
was in a cowgame lvl31 necro refuses to party and corpsexplode away.
Even though he makes the kills 4 times faster if i provide him with the corpses. ended up going seperate ways, and i kill faster than him...just more unsafe and use alot of potions that way.
not partying and playing in same place i have seen so much im getting sick!

Whats so good about classic? (other then hellforge rushes if you are into that)
You will find bad people in every group. I have found entertaining people to play with, whether in these forums or in pub games.

Nirlem

29-01-2005, 10:26

You will find bad people in every group. I have found entertaining people to play with, whether in these forums or in pub games.

i dont mind finding some bad people, but come on i havent seen a single nice/good one so far.

and can i find a trading forum for classic somewhere?

FrozenSolid

29-01-2005, 13:04

Ive been on lod for so long I forgot about the life back in classic. I have few questions for thee:
What kind of setups are considered "godly" for lets say a sorc?
Are the difficulties any harder in lod or is it the same in both versions?

-Tempus-

29-01-2005, 13:57

ok after three days playing classic i have to say:

I have never ever seen a worse place.
Every single player i have meet/played with is totally Stupid/ignorant/badmouthed/selfish

thats public battle.net for ya

Doing the quests in a game like act2 all quests, lvl40 player joins...5 minutes later "game closes in 60 seconds!"

that happens all the time, just rejoin that same game once the timer runs out. the game will still be there and wont end since diablo is dead.

Co-operation does not exist!

sure it does, it just takes longer then 3 days to find good people, its the same in LOD. if you play HC you should have more luck with coop games but then most of the good coop people are going to be in private games.

Whats so good about classic? (other then hellforge rushes if you are into that)

well whats so good about LOD or any other game you can play online? its just a game, if you cant stand the people you find then play single player or solo on the realms. its always more fun to play games online if you can find good people to game with, thats the hard part. once you find some you'll have more fun with any game.

-Tempus-

Invitus

29-01-2005, 14:38

Lol, remembering the last few weeks when i have been joining 'HELP ACT 1234' games which just started, then i solo CS, and kill Diablo, and watch the people flame at me while everybody leaves, then i laugh a lot

And btw, for my barb, i got a patriarch!

Nirlem

29-01-2005, 20:03

To be honest!

public battlenet in all honor. i am used to that one!

Classic is just 20x the worst you see in Lod on every single occasion. at least during these last 3 days that i have seen.

Doesnt matter to much since im just passing through, going to play it single player. (forgerushing is my classic game)
But if it was a nice enviroment, then maybe more people would stick around!
That will never happen as it looks now.

But i still need the answer to one question:
Where/how do i trade in classic. just make game offer/Need?
would prefer a forum for it!

If you know of such a place but cant link to it, then feel free to PM me please!

-Tempus-

29-01-2005, 22:15

But i still need the answer to one question:
Where/how do i trade in classic. just make game offer/Need?
would prefer a forum for it!

If you know of such a place but cant link to it, then feel free to PM me please!

you can use the trade forums here for the realm you play on, just title your thread with all info needed. ie D2Classic NL SC Trade/want list

the marketplace also has servers for D2C that you can try and post your items on. most items for trade on a classic server are LOD items that the seller put in the wrong place. there are still some people that keep an eye open for D2C trades even if they dont post much.

on Battle.net goto the trade channel and list what you have/want in your char profile and ask for a whisper. there are also trade games up all the time, try going to them or make your own if you have something to sell. list the item in the game name and list other info in the game script.

-Tempus-

Gorny

29-01-2005, 23:48

Grummer

30-01-2005, 01:51

Well said, Aragorn. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Invitus

30-01-2005, 07:26

Another question for my pally
SHould i get concentration for my Hammerdin? WOuld it boost the damage, or just in LoD?'
for now, my pally has
Defiance, Blessed Aim, BH(duh), Vigor, no Holy Shield, because i got a bone shield with 70% block :clap: If i dont need concentration, i guess i would put them in salvation

zrk

30-01-2005, 07:38

kobrakai[UK]

30-01-2005, 13:38

At present I have a lvl 81 hammerdin and I have maxed all the synergies for Blessed Hammer, 1 point in Meditation, Redemption and Holy Shield. I was wondering what other paladins think would be best to spend my extra skills in?

Options:
Holy Shield: Not much use imo as I have 75% block and it isn't really possible for me to get a worth while amount of defence.

More Mediation:To use in the CS with other Hammersdins

More Redemption: So I can get more life back for myself. This is the most tempting option.

Resist All: To use in the CS with other Hammersdins.

Thanks in advanced.

I also agree with the previous post about people in Classic being annoying as I create game like "cswalk" to walk to the CS to get more exp and a sorc joins the game makes a "hot" tp and everyone else runs off to open the seals :scratch:

zrk

30-01-2005, 15:57

So im making an MF Sorc for NM Andy & Meph runs (any other suggestions on what to run?).
She might end up being around level 70 or so and im really not sure what skills to get. At present im level 36 with 7 points in Frozen Orb and Cold Mastery, 1 point in Ice bolt, Ice ball, Glacial spike, cold nova, telekinetic grab and teleport

Should i max out Frozen orb, Cold mastery and Ice bolt or should i get fireball as a backup attack?

TheCerberus

30-01-2005, 17:14

@Invitus, I'm curious why you put a lot of points into defiance but not Holy Shield, HS outweighs it by more than a lot. Concentration is definitely the way you should go, only useful aura for your hammers.

@zrk, it depends on the level of your hammers. In some cases, Conc is more helpful damage wise, in others, synergies help more. In the end everything should be maxed however. On terms of your sorc, I really like fire sorcs because they're somewhat unique, however I suggest you stay with cold. Max out those 3 skills, and put a few in glacial spike. It'll synergize blizzard, which is useful for Meph and the moat trick. And its very good for handling crowds. Lets say they're all cold immune, teleport past them. Throw some more in tele so it doesn't consume as much mana. Invest 1 or 2 points in shields.

@kobrakai, When I planned my PvP hammerdin, he had the exact same skills as you but no redemption. Holy Shield he had 1 pt, because he got maxed block with it. Redemption is very useful for gaining lots of life/mana, and it clears up the clutter of bodies. Meditation is like a lvl 22 Warmth, so that shows you how good it is. However, meditation is not worth it. Its fine at lvl 1 base. So really what you should consider is Redemption vs. Prayer. When you use redemption, you get a big instantaneous boost of life and mana, provided you have bodies. I don't think it helps your party. Prayer synergizes Meditation, so when you use Medit you'll be helping mana and life gradually but quickly, regardless of if there are bodies.

Personally, I find that 1 pt. redemption works fine. Put the rest in prayer, your party will be grateful.

-Tempus-

30-01-2005, 17:30

Well said, Aragorn. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you have 3 hands?

Invitus: only the conc aura will add ED to BH in D2C. might & fan both look like they do in the char screen but they dont. here are 2 ways you could finsh off your paladin. leave 1 point in conc and then use +skill items to up the dmg. you would only use conc when you are solo but by doing that you can put 19 points into some other aura and use that when you have more then 1 conc paladin in the game. what you put those points in could be just about anything and work very well. you could drop those points into Might and charge for a 2nd attack skill, smite/holy sheild for a 2nd attack skill. holy bolt, holy freeze, resist lightning, prayer... they all work great. if you play solo most of the time and dont have much in the way of +skill items then drop the points into conc.

kobrakai[UK]: in 1.10 holy shield works with your total def where in 1.09 it would only work on the def on your shield. so if you are using low def setup high holy shield will only help you if you needed the high block or use smite. but if you you some +250 def shield, some nice +500 def plate and +300 def from other items you'll end up mass def.

zrk: take a look at that D2Classic Sorc thread. that should help some

-Tempus-

Taft12

01-02-2005, 21:44

So im making an MF Sorc for NM Andy & Meph runs (any other suggestions on what to run?).

Should i max out Frozen orb, Cold mastery and Ice bolt or should i get fireball as a backup attack?

If you aren't going to be in hell much at all, might as well concentrate on one tree and max orb/mastery

Taft12

01-02-2005, 21:56

and last what kind of things do i keep to try and trade for some usefull items?

Start by looking at my list of unique items on page 4 of this thread (I gotta get around to updating that btw - I'm still open to price suggestions and I have a framework in mind for pricing rares).

Run Normal Mephisto with cheapo MF gear (3-ptopaz helm, etc). It takes less than a minute to find the stairs in norm and he drops plenty of sets and uniques with over 100% MF -- you'll get at least one green or gold almost every time and 3 different ones on a regular basis. This is an awesome way to get a complete Sigon set and Sigons is also great trade bait.

Finally, ID every rare armor item and exceptional weapon you find. Good mods on armor items include FHR, resists, life, mana, str. On weapons it's all about the damage % and IAS (leech, AR and of course +skills are nice too)

TheCerberus

01-02-2005, 22:53

Run Normal Mephisto with cheapo MF gear (3-ptopaz helm, etc). It takes less than a minute to find the stairs in norm and he drops plenty of sets and uniques with over 100% MF -- you'll get at least one green or gold almost every time and 3 different ones on a regular basis. This is an awesome way to get a complete Sigon set and Sigons is also great trade bait.

Finally, ID every rare armor item and exceptional weapon you find. Good mods on armor items include FHR, resists, life, mana, str. On weapons it's all about the damage % and IAS (leech, AR and of course +skills are nice too)

Good way to always have first drops (magic, sets, uniques, rares, nothing else) = first drop. When you kill Andariel for quest, go to act 2 after you have done so. You will always get first drops or quest drops from that point on whenever you run her. Also, when doing Meph: if you can wait a while, level up to a good level without killing Mephisto for quest. Then join CS games, and while they're clearing CS, you kill Meph. You get quest drops every time.

Good mods on weapons = high damage %, +skills, -reqs, leech, AR, regeneration, stats, and IAS if its going to be used for a non-WW skill. On wands or scepters, FCR, mana, life, resists, +skills.

theBlackKnight

02-02-2005, 06:07

I thought quest drop worked like : char who doesnt have mephy quest makes game, char who has mephy quest joins game, kills mephy while out of party, voila , quest drop each time.

psycho.hatred

02-02-2005, 13:41

I thought quest drop worked like : char who doesnt have mephy quest makes game, char who has mephy quest joins game, kills mephy while out of party, voila , quest drop each time.

That's what I think how it works.

psycho.hatred

02-02-2005, 13:54

@Invitus, I'm curious why you put a lot of points into defiance but not Holy Shield, HS outweighs it by more than a lot. Concentration is definitely the way you should go, only useful aura for your hammers.

True. never could have said it better myself

@kobrakai, When I planned my PvP hammerdin, he had the exact same skills as you but no redemption. Holy Shield he had 1 pt, because he got maxed block with it. Redemption is very useful for gaining lots of life/mana, and it clears up the clutter of bodies. Meditation is like a lvl 22 Warmth, so that shows you how good it is. However, meditation is not worth it. Its fine at lvl 1 base. So really what you should consider is Redemption vs. Prayer. When you use redemption, you get a big instantaneous boost of life and mana, provided you have bodies. I don't think it helps your party. Prayer synergizes Meditation, so when you use Medit you'll be helping mana and life gradually but quickly, regardless of if there are bodies.
Personally, I find that 1 pt. redemption works fine. Put the rest in prayer, your party will be grateful.

Prayer isnt much of a help PvP wise.if you would use meditation during dueling, healing still is very slow if you have high life(say 1.8k? my pally is an all vita build, and I must say this would take a while) and maxing prayer almost impossible since its hard to lvl in classic, would take you lvl 9X lvl given that you maxed conc. b.hammer and its synergies. Id suggest putting the rest of the pts in HS(after you maxed b.hammer and synergies and conc.), prolongs the duration, nice def when csing(specially if you use an ornate) not to mention nice def against barbs.

TheCerberus

03-02-2005, 01:48

Quest drop is just the drop you get when you kill a boss for quest. There are different methods for doing it, as you stated one. But when you join games created by other people, you avoid the hassle of: rejoining a game with another character and swapping characters, maybe getting a Realm Down, and you have people in game already, increasing the experience and drops you can get. pretty sure on the second part.

EDIT: Holy Shield is worthless when using it for defense, because anything melee that uses an attack to hit you will hit you. I made a Defiant Paladin, with max HS and defiance as my aura: 10k defense, ~1400 life, max block. Barbarians easily hit me while I was walking.

EDIT: Ran the numbers, the perfect Paladin setup is +4 skills (shard), with maxed hammers, synergies, concentration. If rest go into Prayer on a lvl 89 character, a character with Medit on would have: +400% mana regeneration, healing 16 life every 2 seconds. While escaping bone prisons/walls, Charge with medit on. When escaping anything, charge with medit on. Anytime a character runs, medit, then chase with vigor.

psycho.hatred

03-02-2005, 03:23

you avoid the hassle of: rejoining a game with another character and swapping characters, maybe getting a Realm Down

How would you get realm down?

EDIT: Holy Shield is worthless when using it for defense, because anything melee that uses an attack to hit you will hit you. I made a Defiant Paladin, with max HS and defiance as my aura: 10k defense, ~1400 life, max block. Barbarians easily hit me while I was walking.
Im sure you dont want to get hit when you are dueling..
You wouldnt want to use defiance while casting hammers, dmg isnt much.
I mentioned defense matters in cs too.

EDIT: Ran the numbers, the perfect Paladin setup is +4 skills (shard), with maxed hammers, synergies, concentration. If rest go into Prayer on a lvl 89 character, a character with Medit on would have: +400% mana regeneration, healing 16 life every 2 seconds. While escaping bone prisons/walls, Charge with medit on. When escaping anything, charge with medit on. Anytime a character runs, medit, then chase with vigor.

Running in duels is, well you know not good in your opponents point of view. specially if your opponent's lvl is lower, and a lvl 89 running away is, what's the word? kinda embarassing.. well not kinda.
let's say I have 1.8k life(with my build), of course you wouldnt run when you still have 1k life or more, you would still try to kick your opponent's ***. lets say you "charge" away and run when your life hits 200(or 500), how long does that take for the char to make the health globe full when using meditation? u said 16 life per 2 seconds, well that's 200 seconds for 1600 health(given that I have 1800 life) and that's past 3 minutes already, you're opponent wouldve assumed that you potted for that past 3 minutes already(unless when you're dueling you are allowed to pot.). And that's the case when you run to cold plains or stony field.. Waiting for you life globe to be full again. What if he catches you and still do dmg? you think he would only do 16 dmg per 2 seconds???

Edit: And how much faster cast rate does your perfect build have? the max break point for fcr for a pally in classic is 80(75 to be exact but it is impossible to have exact 75 fcr so 80 is the next achievable value) and the 2nd to the last max is 50 fcr(48 actually but again its impossible to get a exact 48 fcr), so it means that any fcr between 48 and 74 still gets the 48 bp for fcr and if you have let's say 90 fcr(just an example) your fcr BP will still be the same as 75 BP.
That build would be good if your amulet has 10 fcr and using magefist which gives 20 fcr which makes your total fcr 80. And +6 is achievable since +2 for ammy, +2 from rings(2x sojs) and +2 from shield and still gives you 80 fcr from shard, ammy and magefist.
But if your amulet doesnt have 10 fcr, you will still have 70 fcr which is not equal nor does it exceed the next BP which is 80(or 75). and I assume your damage is between 8k-10k(given that you use 2x sojs)? If your fcr is 80 its much better than my build since speed > dmg as most ppl say more hammers = more dmg or something like that.
The 2nd best is my build, (using +2 pally +3 blessed hammer scepter, +2 ammy with 10 fcr, magefist and 2x fcr rings which makes it 50)
This build has 11k-11k b.hammer dmg(2k-2k dmg w/o conc) and 50 fcr

Fearlessone

03-02-2005, 04:23

'][b]
I also agree with the previous post about people in Classic being annoying as I create game like "cswalk" to walk to the CS to get more exp and a sorc joins the game makes a "hot" tp and everyone else runs off to open the seals :scratch:

Do you play Europe realm? We have various cswalks, riverwalks, and safewalks throughout the day on USWest ladder. I used to play walks on the old classic realm, but people picked up bad habits there and just pop seals all over, very dangerous. Using the term 'cs' attracts hammerdins and tele sorc's, specifically, SORA types. To avoid them, use the term riverwalk. Now technically, this sounds like a barb trying to go river only, avoiding IM curse. But it really has evolved to mean: Start at River wypt, end up at Diablo, get all experience in between.

Still, these sora types will see a nearly full game and barge in and try to take over. DON'T LET THEM. IT'S YOUR GAME. When they say: "tp is up", just ignore them and let them get killed. Or "who cares". You can yell at them, de-party them, hostile them. Hammerdins and sorcies can be killed by just about any necro. Blizzard sora sorcies with max synergies are particularly dangerous, but hawkmail and a constant gulping of thawing pots will keep u at 95% resists. Also I believe if u wear cold resist stuff over 75% total cold resistance, it may work against their cold mastery skill, I know it works for conviction/foh with like 130% ++ lightning resistance. At least the char display screen shows that ur lr isnt way low.

"Classic people are bad":

I have found that Nm players in classic dont say much and exit games when the least problem occurs. They are usually trying to zoom thru the difficulties to get to hell. I still stand by my statements in an earlier post on this thread that classic is a smaller community with more 'soul' than LOD, that's why so many ppl have returned to classic,even with its limitations.

-Tempus-

03-02-2005, 13:58

[QUOTE=Fearlessone] Also I believe if u wear cold resist stuff over 75% total cold resistance, it may work against their cold mastery skill, I know it works for conviction/foh with like 130% ++ lightning resistance. At least the char display screen shows that ur lr isnt way low.QUOTE]

i have a post someplace where i list the dmg i took from lev 28 orb (max icebolt, 28 mastery) while using different amounts of resist cold. i went up to over 400% to cold and took very little dmg (around 20) where i took over 1k when not using that setup.

-Tempus-

psycho.hatred

03-02-2005, 14:07

What do you mean by SORA types? I dont know what it means.

TheCerberus

04-02-2005, 00:49

You can get a Realm Down from creating games in rapid succession or switching characters too quickly. I don't think you will by switch 2, but if you kill Meph quickly, and switch 2, you're running a risk for RD.

Defense matters in CS yes, but you said PvP. And what I'm saying is no amount of defense will help you, because any melee character will hit you... max block is very good, but extra defense is not. Take a WW baba for example: with angelics they can get 11k AR, without 5k AR, what kind of defense is going to stop that? I'm telling you from experience, I had 10k and max block and I still got hit often...

There are times in dueling when you need to escape: when being desynched, when being trapped, all of those times you should escape and charge back in, which is what I said. I'm not saying to run away and heal to full health, just whenever you get a chance to charge without vigor needed, then use medit. I'm not saying use it to heal all the way, just partly, whenever you get the chance. Every bit helps. And the only character that can keep up with you is a sorc or another Paladin: you shouldn't have to escape any situation with them, unless pal is desynching, but you can do that too. WW baba desynching, necro imprisoning you with walls/prisons, those are times to escape, regroup, and charge back in. Using medit has nothing to do with life, thats playing chicken. It has to do with oppurtunity.

Also, my build allows you to have max block, max resists under conv or cold mastery, and like 1.75k life, maybe more. Rare rings > sojs, because when you're doing 8k+ damage, only characters that'll take more are paladins/zons/babas, the first 2 it'd take 2 more. If you think about, PvP with 2 sojs you're doing 1644 per hit (avg). Without you're doing 1405 per hit. That will 1-hit both sorcs and necros and 2 hit zons and pallys. So with 3 hits you deal 4932/4215. Babas are the only chars left, and the best can probably get around 5.6k life, so to kill them it takes 4 hits from both builds. Therefore, 2 sojs are only useful for that 4215-4932 range life barbs, with some mana or you can get regen, stats, life, mana, resists, so on with rares. Matter of choice I guess.

psycho.hatred

04-02-2005, 03:14

You can get a Realm Down from creating games in rapid succession or switching characters too quickly. I don't think you will by switch 2, but if you kill Meph quickly, and switch 2, you're running a risk for RD.
Its no good mfing and switching chars to get "quest drops"
Either let a friend make and you kill. or if you have 2 keys, you can make a game with one char and the other kills then make a ng with your char that didnt have meph quest done yet. while your other char is killing meph. Anyway its not good mfing and alt+tabbing to another window or letting your friend create games for you. If your friend will make games for you, he will get pissed at some point. If you have 1 char making and 1 char killing your run will be slow.

Defense matters in CS yes, but you said PvP. And what I'm saying is no amount of defense will help you, because any melee character will hit you... max block is very good, but extra defense is not. Take a WW baba for example: with angelics they can get 11k AR, without 5k AR, what kind of defense is going to stop that? I'm telling you from experience, I had 10k and max block and I still got hit often...

Not all barbs wear angelics. And in a way defense still matters, even a little.
(When you are partied with a barb with nice shout lvl)

There are times in dueling when you need to escape: when being desynched, when being trapped, all of those times you should escape and charge back in, which is what I said. I'm not saying to run away and heal to full health, just whenever you get a chance to charge without vigor needed, then use medit. I'm not saying use it to heal all the way, just partly, whenever you get the chance. Every bit helps. And the only character that can keep up with you is a sorc or another Paladin: you shouldn't have to escape any situation with them, unless pal is desynching, but you can do that too. WW baba desynching, necro imprisoning you with walls/prisons, those are times to escape, regroup, and charge back in. Using medit has nothing to do with life, thats playing chicken. It has to do with oppurtunity.
As you said you only escape when you are desynched or trapped. 16 pts every 2 secs is not enough imo since they do more dmg to you than you heal. and when you say desynch they wouldve prolly have gone back to town already and said hi to akara. so by the time you are "meditating" they wouldve had full life already. Seriously do you think they would run away if they wont heal?

Also, my build allows you to have max block, max resists under conv or cold mastery, and like 1.75k life, maybe more. Rare rings > sojs, because when you're doing 8k+ damage, only characters that'll take more are paladins/zons/babas, the first 2 it'd take 2 more. If you think about, PvP with 2 sojs you're doing 1644 per hit (avg). Without you're doing 1405 per hit. That will 1-hit both sorcs and necros and 2 hit zons and pallys. So with 3 hits you deal 4932/4215. Babas are the only chars left, and the best can probably get around 5.6k life, so to kill them it takes 4 hits from both builds. Therefore, 2 sojs are only useful for that 4215-4932 range life barbs, with some mana or you can get regen, stats, life, mana, resists, so on with rares. Matter of choice I guess.
You must be using 3 socketed shield or something(or the ward? give me a break) since its nearly impossible to have max resists under conviction aura, unless you are using salvation. if you tell me your set up i may believe you.
You dont need stacked resist always, you dont duel fohers all the times. and few hammerdins host fohers coz they "hit and run" and stay away from hammers.
And ive said in my build ive used rare rings, i never said anything that sojs>rare rings, i just prefer them if using a shard since i mentioned the BP issue.
And are you saying that 1644 dmg is w/o conc? b.hammers wouldnt dmg alot w/o conc beacuse there's a pvp limit that reduces the dmg of your chars. it doesnt actually do that much dmg like what it shows in your screen, if it did i wouldve killed a barb with 1 hammer with the 11k dmg.

Fearlessone

04-02-2005, 04:46

What do you mean by SORA types? I dont know what it means.

It means "sky" in Japanese. It's a term from classic several years ago, "sora runs" are elite runs, where the sorc tele's to center of cs and opens a tp. A sora type would be someone who plays the game at full tilt, like mentioned a few posts back, popping all the seals, killing seal bosses only or anything else that happens to die nearby. Pretty much they get most of their experience from Diablo. They need to play the game faster and faster to get their fix, it's like they are on crack....

Some of us refer to their runs as "chaotic runs", lol.....

TheCerberus

04-02-2005, 04:55

Its no good mfing and switching chars to get "quest drops"
Either let a friend make and you kill. or if you have 2 keys, you can make a game with one char and the other kills then make a ng with your char that didnt have meph quest done yet. while your other char is killing meph. Anyway its not good mfing and alt+tabbing to another window or letting your friend create games for you. If your friend will make games for you, he will get pissed at some point. If you have 1 char making and 1 char killing your run will be slow.
Thats why I'm suggesting you join CS games and do Meph. You get quets drop and you don't need anyone else or any other characters. Its the easiest way. Somebody else suggested switching characters, not me.

Not all barbs wear angelics. And in a way defense still matters, even a little. (When you are partied with a barb with nice shout lvl)
Yes, defense is nice in PvM, and if you're partied with a baba during PvP that changes a lot of things... But it still won't make a difference. You will not have a high enough base defense to wind up with a good enough defense, if at most you'll get ~3k. Barbs will tear that up WITHOUT angelics.

As you said you only escape when you are desynched or trapped. 16 pts every 2 secs is not enough imo since they do more dmg to you than you heal. and when you say desynch they wouldve prolly have gone back to town already and said hi to akara. so by the time you are "meditating" they wouldve had full life already. Seriously do you think they would run away if they wont heal?
If you're charging away from a necro, the only skill that has a chance to damage to you is spear, because its the fastest. However, if you charge in zig zags, spears won't hit you and you'll gain around 64 life. If they go back to town, you win. If you want to continue on this same track, why not use full rejuvs? Healing pots? And people run away from hammer fields, if you charge to them and start hitting them or have fields close to them, they'll try to get away. Thats why vigor charge works well, you move in front of them and plant hammers. They get trapped.

You must be using 3 socketed shield or something(or the ward? give me a break) since its nearly impossible to have max resists under conviction aura, unless you are using salvation. if you tell me your set up i may believe you. You dont need stacked resist always, you dont duel fohers all the times. and few hammerdins host fohers coz they "hit and run" and stay away from hammers. And ive said in my build ive used rare rings, i never said anything that sojs>rare rings, i just prefer them if using a shard since i mentioned the BP issue. And are you saying that 1644 dmg is w/o conc? b.hammers wouldnt dmg alot w/o conc beacuse there's a pvp limit that reduces the dmg of your chars. it doesnt actually do that much dmg like what it shows in your screen, if it did i wouldve killed a barb with 1 hammer with the 11k dmg.
The build uses 2 uniques at most when dueling, shard and magefists. Sojs and tarn are useful for prebuffs, but the rest of the slots of rares. If you have fcr on your ammy, you can go with rare gloves. No salvation. FoHers can hit and run, but when their conviction is negated its easier. Charge lock them, back them into a corner/crevice, let loose some hammers. Thats 1644 dmg PvP; PvP damage is actual damage multiplied by .17, then taken into consideration: resists, eshield, so on...1644 is actually like 9700 damage PvM.

EDIT: If you're on East I can show you somewhat how this build is a possibility. Its very expensive/hard to combine, but very possible.

psycho.hatred

04-02-2005, 08:17

Thats why I'm suggesting you join CS games and do Meph. You get quets drop and you don't need anyone else or any other characters. Its the easiest way. Somebody else suggested switching characters, not me.
Joining cs games? that means the maker of the game is already in act4 because its pointless making cs runs if you cant go to cs.. so this means that the "quest drop" is not activated

Yes, defense is nice in PvM, and if you're partied with a baba during PvP that changes a lot of things... But it still won't make a difference. You will not have a high enough base defense to wind up with a good enough defense, if at most you'll get ~3k. Barbs will tear that up WITHOUT angelics.
you can get 6k using a -40 req ornate with high def. and still i must say 3k defense is better than less than 1k. Im sure the barbs cant hit you 95% of the time with that defense.

If you're charging away from a necro, the only skill that has a chance to damage to you is spear, because its the fastest. However, if you charge in zig zags, spears won't hit you and you'll gain around 64 life. If they go back to town, you win. If you want to continue on this same track, why not use full rejuvs? Healing pots? And people run away from hammer fields, if you charge to them and start hitting them or have fields close to them, they'll try to get away. Thats why vigor charge works well, you move in front of them and plant hammers. They get trapped.
We're not only talking about necro's here. what if the game has all pallies in em? There's a reason theyve gone back to town you know. when you run, its impossible to catch you zigzaging off specially a necro.

The build uses 2 uniques at most when dueling, shard and magefists. Sojs and tarn are useful for prebuffs, but the rest of the slots of rares. If you have fcr on your ammy, you can go with rare gloves. No salvation. FoHers can hit and run, but when their conviction is negated its easier. Charge lock them, back them into a corner/crevice, let loose some hammers. Thats 1644 dmg PvP; PvP damage is actual damage multiplied by .17, then taken into consideration: resists, eshield, so on...1644 is actually like 9700 damage PvM.
what do you mean when their conviction is negated? they dont lower their own defense when their conviction is on(if that's what you meant).
And not always can you charge lock them. and even if you corner them, not always will the hammer hit them. you still didnt mention the items so your resists are still maxed with conviction on....

EDIT: If you're on East I can show you somewhat how this build is a possibility. Its very expensive/hard to combine, but very possible.
I play both east and west nl

TheCerberus

05-02-2005, 01:26

Sigh, ok lets go through this one more time...

- You're wrong on this. You get quest drop one of these ways: a) You kill any boss for the quest, b) you kill Andy after getting the Andy bug, c) You kill the boss whenever you don't have quest, either in your own game or someone elses game. That means that whoever made the CS game is in Act 4, so Meph quets cannot be done. If you enter the CS game with a character that doesn't have the Meph quest, you'll get quest drop. End of story. Here's a link if you still don't get it: http://rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=228872 . Now thats finished.
- Ok, let's say you get to lvl 89, and put no points in medit, 1 pt in prayer, and rest in holy shield after hammers/so on is done. It'll be base 13, and with +2 shield/2 sojs/+2 ammy/silks/tarnhelm/+2 scpter with +3 holy shield for = +13 skills, the level is 26. Thats +415 def with defiance synergized. Ok, so 225 def helm + 900 def armor + 280 def shield + 100 def belt + 70 def boots + 50 def gloves = 8369 def. Thats very good, but with ideal equipment for DEFENSE. First of all, for ornate you'd need 102 strength, or +77 from base. War belt and war boots are like 110/115, so that bumps it up even more. You lose life that way. Helm and shield are grims, so that low str, but everything else is very high... You mentioned 6k life: that means babas will at least have a 50% chance to hit you, and since they hit very often, thats not as good as you think. And remember, if you can stack up on defense, they can stack up on AR just as easily, always negating you. In the end, its just not worth it.
- Um, if all pallys, just use vigor charge then. I don't see how Holy shield would help you more than medit+prayer would. The answer: it wouldn't.
- Conviction negated, all I meant was you'd have enough resists stacked up to negate the effect of conviction (-150).

In conclusion, lets see what I just said. 1. You're wrong on the quest drop, it can work the way I said it would. 2. Medit + prayer helps you more in any situation except against melee. And a melee character can get more AR than you could ever get in defense, so it ends up not helping much if at all. 3. Conviction can be negated, which I'll now show you a setup on East that can. The basic idea is that to have max resists in hell you need 125 resists, because 75 for max + -50 for hell penalty = 125. A paladin's conviction can lower you up to -150. So to achieve max lightning resists in hell, you need 275 stacked lightning resists.

First of all, there's a cheap way to do it: 3-topaz shield (120), Shard (10), Goldskin (35), Iratha's helm/gloves/belt/ammy (65 + 10 max), Tearhaunch (10), 2 rings (up to 60) = 280, for 80 lightning resists. You can get 15 LR on some boots and have 85 resists. So its very possible and this setup is very cheap, but it leaves you lacking in life. The other setup is on East NL, but it involves items that came into the world legitly, but from then on have been messed with to turn off some people. PM if you really want the details, or maybe I'll just post.

Invitus

05-02-2005, 03:36

-Tempus-

05-02-2005, 08:31

Sorry for the off topic questions but:

I got a shield with 75% blocking at starting, a grim shield as it happens to be, and when you guys said max block, I assumed 100%? I casted holy shield when it add 25% to blocking, and it is still on 75% blocking, but the chance of the creatures successfully attacking you drops. And how do you calculate the chance that the creature will succesfully attack you with your shield?
e.g.

Diablo 87% to successfully land a hit
Chance to block 75%

So..?

each char class has a diferent base %block on each type of shield. block is also capped at 75% for all chars (even with holy shield) what holy shield is used for is to get upto 75% block on lower % sheilds and/or to get mass def.

the chance a monsters has to hit you depends on their lev vs yours and your total def. you can have 75% block and low def and will get hit alot, if you have very high def and 75% block you dont get very much. if monsters only have a 10% chance to hit you and then you block 75% of that 10% you dont get hit much at all. thats why its a good idea if you dont have a shield to go with high def. many barbs with 2hd weapons will go with max shout/skin so they wont get hit.

-Tempus-

psycho.hatred

05-02-2005, 12:36

In conclusion, lets see what I just said. 1. You're wrong on the quest drop, it can work the way I said it would.
I never really knew how the quest drop works, I thought it works the way I said before. Anyway I dont mf much, and if I do mf, it doesnt really matter if I get quest drops or not.

2. Medit + prayer helps you more in any situation except against melee. And a melee character can get more AR than you could ever get in defense, so it ends up not helping much if at all.
Ok for you meditation helps but IMO defense is better. I didnt say to wear War boots and any of those high str req gear pos items, just ornate with -40. And in dueling games pallies with barb as a party member is almost unstoppable with the defense they have(most duel games with pallies in it has barb with a party) . and IMO even healing through meditation is like potting in a way but little by little. And charging away yes defense doesnt matter, but meditating it will help you very little. and that isnt much considering the dmg done to you

3. Conviction can be negated, which I'll now show you a setup on East that can. The basic idea is that to have max resists in hell you need 125 resists, because 75 for max + -50 for hell penalty = 125. A paladin's conviction can lower you up to -150. So to achieve max lightning resists in hell, you need 275 stacked lightning resists.

First of all, there's a cheap way to do it: 3-topaz shield (120), Shard (10), Goldskin (35), Iratha's helm/gloves/belt/ammy (65 + 10 max), Tearhaunch (10), 2 rings (up to 60) = 280, for 80 lightning resists. You can get 15 LR on some boots and have 85 resists. So its very possible and this setup is very cheap, but it leaves you lacking in life. The other setup is on East NL, but it involves items that came into the world legitly, but from then on have been messed with to turn off some people. PM if you really want the details, or maybe I'll just post.
I rest my case... Irathas? 3 socketed shield?? goldskin?? cheapness as you said. You may consider this as a nice setup against foher. but my gear is for dueling any char(with exceptions of a foher, my gear makes my pally have max resists in hell. Helm has FHR +59 life and + 38 from ruby, Armor has +60 life +38 life from pruby, 2 nice resists FHR and PLR 50, Belt has fire cold lightning resists 60 life and FHR etc, if you want to see my gear, my pally is in east sc nl) I dont wear "these" kind itamz... I admit I switch armors(hawkmail in particular and twitch) but I dont wear shields with 3socket as you mentioned its cheap and its like "no manner pk" as korean say it. I only use em "if" my opponents use em, in which most of the cases I dont.
This basically means you switch and switch your items all over depending on the ones you duel... Your items isnt compatible for a PvAll build if you switch constantly.

TheCerberus

05-02-2005, 18:23

You're right, it isn't a good way to do it at all. In fact, thats not the setup I would use, except the setup I would uses dupes. But here it is:
Helm: Storm Circlet (40)
Boots: Soul Shank (45)
Armor: Glyph Carapace (28)
Gloves: Magefists
Weapon: Shard (10)
2 Rings: 2x Rune Loop (124)
Shield: Rare w/ Perfect Diamond (39)
That leaves your amulet and belt spots open. If you want to negate Cold Mastery, you switch your rings for ones with CR on them. Both rings have 15 resists to other elements, along with mana, replenish. Against barbs, I'd use 15 prismatic rings with life and mana. If in a pub game, where I have to face all types of characters, I'd use 1 Rune Loop and 1 Chaos Finger. This build is all vita, with enough strength for heaviest item (Soul Shank - 75) and most dexterious item (Shard - 51), along with plenty of life and regens to boot. It uses hardly any switching, just rings, items for pre-buff, and shields if neccessary. It reaches 46 FHR BP and 75 FCR BP, with max block and 1750 life without BO.

-Tempus-

05-02-2005, 18:40

idea, how about more talk about builds that use legit items. :scratch:

-Tempus-

TheCerberus

05-02-2005, 20:39

On NL, that's very hard to do. Many legit rares are better, but for the most part, dupes function as well or better as cheaper alternatives. I hate that dupes exist, but whether rares/SoJs in Classic or runes/jewels/uniques in LoD, they exist. If I find a rare that is slightly less in quality than a dupe, I'll use that instead. But I won't look down on those who use them or not use them myself. Maybe I do have a subconscious feeling underneath that hates dupes, because I do like ladder a lot more. Here's a ladder build.

Let's introduce the Classic Speeder Barbarian! Designed to kill Elemental characters with ease, take on BvBers, and catch those pesky Necromancers...

First of all, to handle elemental characters, you need max resists. A standard setup with 125 resists will get you max resists in that element in hell. To get 85 resists in hell with Iratha's, you need 135 resists. Under Conviction, you need 285 lightning resists; Cold Mastery, you'll need 290 if they use a full +skill setup. Against Poison Necromancers, their Lower Resist can effect your poison resists for another -66 penalties in a full +skill setup. The good players won't use these setups, but you'll come across bad duelers and need to take care of them.

How can a barbarian that kills casters compete in BvB? You'll need lots of defense and AR, right? Not really. Most ladder barbarians will use Angelics, and effectively get ~11k AR so they can get as many hits as possible. Therefore, your defense is negligible. Also, wouldn't a BvBer need max block to avoid getting hit, and a caster killer would lose life if they got block right? Not in Classic, max block is easily achived by Twtich and Swordback Hold. Also, many BvBers on ladder seem to think Battle Hammers are the way to go, or Executioner Swords. By using Nagas, you'll have less damage than either of those builds, but you'll have two advantages: a higher range with Naga's range 3 over Battle Hammer's range 1, getting more hits and getting hardly hit; more life with Nagas because of lower requirements (125 strength) than the Executioner Sword (170 strength/110 dexterity).

This build is great for avoiding the lethal curse of Decrepify of Necromancers, because you'll be extremely quick to avoid the radius of the curse and zoom in on the kill. Since Shout only needs 1 point, you can dump all the rest into IS and NR. I'd max IS first, since speed from skills is better than speed from items. Resists are the same whether from items of skills, and plus they are wasily gotten from items. Since you're fast you can target in on the bonemancer before he casts Decrepify, and if it does manage to effect you, you'll have extra speed to lose.

Items
Weapon: 2xRare Naga (Imbue at lvl 74), 2x+2 Barbarian Magic Hatchet*
Armor = Blinkbat's Form*, Hawkmail, Twitchthroe, Berserker's Hauberk*
Helm = Iratha's Coil, 3-Ruby Crown, Tarnhelm*
Gloves = Iratha's Cuff, Bloodfists
Belt = Iratha's Cord, Bladebuckle
Amulet = Iratha's Collar, Angelic Wings
Rings = 2xCoral Ring, 2xCobalt Ring, 2x Jade Ring, 2xGarnet Ring, 2x Angelic Raiment, 2xStone of Jordans*
Shield = 3-Topaz Kite Shield, 3-Saphire Kite Shield, Swordback Hold
Boots: Goblin Toes, Hot Spurs*
Extras: Horadric Cube, Tome of Town Portal*, Tome of Identify*
*these items are not really needed, but help a lot

Kite Shields are the best shields to put gems in because they are light weight, so you keep your speed up. And once again, Nagas are the best because of their requirements and range. Many of the * items are items that will help you Warcries, like Berserker's Hauberk (+1 armor) and the SoJs. However, they aren't really needed, your character just functions better with them.

Of course, these items can all be improved on by rares. Rares can lower the overall amount of statistics you have to spend in strength or dexterity. They may give you lots of life and mana; some come with tri-resists, regen, FRW, and FHR. Often times, if you find good rings and amulets, you won't need to use items from the above list like the Angelic set, or the 3-Gem Kite Shields. However, know that while you may be gaining life, +skills, resistances, the need for swapping items, -requirements, and most importantly style, when using rares over items like the Iratha's set, you do lose the max resists and FRW the set gives you. Some may like this tradeoff, I myself do. I'd much rather prefer a setup consisting of 95% rares, but this is a ladder build and it can compete just as well. Think of the satisfaction you'll get killing people "welfare" style.

Now, due to CS runs, its not very hard to get to 85. After that, the leveling becomes a little tedious. Therefore, the skills section will be catered to a lvl 85 character with all quests done. Your character should then have 84 skill points from leveling, and 12 skills from quests; combine that with 420 stats from leveling and 15 stats from quests. You'll also have 168 life from leveling with 60 more life from quests.

Skills and Statistics
1 Point Each: Bash, Leap, Stun, Leap Attack, Concentrate, Increased Stamina, Iron Skin, Howl, Shout, Battle Command
20 Points Each: Whirlwind, Axe Mastery, Increased Speed, Battle Orders
Rest upon leveling: Natural Resists
Strength: 125.
Dexterity: None.
Energy: None.
Vitality: Everything after strength and dexterity are met.

A lot of your equipment gives bonuses to Strength, like Twitchthroe, Bladebuckle, and Swordback Hold. However, if you switched to Blinkbat's or a 3-Gem Shield, you wouldn't be able to wield your Naga. I say go to 125, or add 95 stats into strength. It does end up being a lot of life, 280 before BO, but you're a barbarian, you'll survive. As the ladder season progresses, rares will be found and the standards will raise, but for a durable, cheap character that is fun to play, this is the way to go.

Legit enough?

psycho.hatred

06-02-2005, 02:16

2 Rings: 2x Rune Loop (124)
Shield: Rare w/ Perfect Diamond (39)
That leaves your amulet and belt spots open. If you want to negate Cold Mastery, you switch your rings for ones with CR on them. Both rings have 15 resists to other elements, along with mana, replenish. Against barbs, I'd use 15 prismatic rings with life and mana. If in a pub game, where I have to face all types of characters, I'd use 1 Rune Loop and 1 Chaos Finger. This build is all vita, with enough strength for heaviest item (Soul Shank - 75) and most dexterious item (Shard - 51), along with plenty of life and regens to boot. It uses hardly any switching, just rings, items for pre-buff, and shields if neccessary. It reaches 46 FHR BP and 75 FCR BP, with max block and 1750 life without BO.
Just wondering what are the mods on rloop, does it have +str?
Almost the same setup as my foher, cept I use sojs and rlash as belt(4x lr)
the base str for a pally is 25. so the belt ur gonna use here is a rare with str req <= 25 or block(17 str) or rlash(16 str) which gives you 45 at most(20 max str for belt). how would u get the +30 for sshanks? hclasp?

TheCerberus

06-02-2005, 03:21

Belt has 12, amulet has 17. Perfect emerald Storm Circlet, and you can equip it. You lose about 8 life though, but item-wise it can always be improved. Anyway, moving away from dupes and NL to ladder...

Thoughts on my speeder build?

zrk

06-02-2005, 17:53

i have NO clue about how to build amazons, especially in diablo 2 classic. could anyone give me some advice on what skills to get, where to put stat points, what equipment to look for?

TheCerberus

06-02-2005, 22:04

Javazon:
Iratha's Finery + Goldskin/Twitchthroe + Wall of Eyeless + rings w/ resists/mana + Tearhaunch
Enough strength to equip everything, rest vitality.

-Tempus-

06-02-2005, 23:03

i have NO clue about how to build amazons, especially in diablo 2 classic. could anyone give me some advice on what skills to get, where to put stat points, what equipment to look for?

well just like LOD there are many kinds of amz you can make that will work well in D2C.

bow, jav, spear then pick an attack or attacks. what works best on some maps may not work as well on others. if you want to make a amz for cows vs one that can run any map. most of the time you'll have a barb (for bo) and a pal (conc) to help your char but you will still want to build up a nice item setup for her.

you'll have to look up the ias table for amz's to make sure you have whats needed for each breakpoint for the attacks you want to use.

if you want more dmg while using a bow you'll need to push dex very high. this works well if you can also get a lot of +life/dex items. the easy thing to do is get str/dex to use a goth bow then put the rest into vit (or ~100) bow amz shouldnt spend their time close to monsters after all.

if you can always coop with an enchant sorc. at high levs they can add close to 2k fire dmg to.

-Tempus-

Fearlessone

06-02-2005, 23:52

Some sort of cold and poison damage could be important for your zon. Frozen arrow zons were all over when patch first came out, that was because zons sucked all of a sudden compared to being the TOP char class in classic just the day before. If you are a hammerdin with redemption or any kind of summoning necro with CE or any taunting barb, U just HATE freezing skills. No corpses. The poison will stop rehealing, cold will slow them down to 50% of the movement and hits towards you.

Lightning javazons are annoying with all those flashes about, hard to see what in the world is friend or foe, nasty mages still around or not. But they are very effective. It's too bad u dont see any other kinds of zons from the jav tree.

Invitus

07-02-2005, 04:20

IN the Asia realm, all the top players in the ladder, none of them used spears, and bowazons and javazons were pretty evenly spread, i use a sniperzon myself, a crossbow, aims for 1 hit kills, it was really good, you don't need much strength, but dex is the thing that raises your damage, remember for super fast machinegunazon, it uses the fastest bow existed and just spammed arrows, and by golly, it took quite a long time to finish hell, it sucked like hell, then i got my sniperzon, and it just rocked like hell, 1 hit can kill quite a good portion monsters, and when i use strafe, it is just undefeatable. And during PvP, out of 10 battles i hve dueled, i only lost 3 battles, they were FO Sorc, FB Sorc and finally, the fastest, a chargedin, it was so fast with vigor, and then my guided arrows could not chase up, and the one of the charges bashed me off, and my character did not have time to react, then it bashed me to the walls of the rogue encampment, and i could not see my self, so i could not aim, then after the 3rd hit, i heard the scream......

TheCerberus

07-02-2005, 04:52

WW barbarians can easily catch a bowazon...
And necromancer with decrepify?

Invitus

07-02-2005, 13:30

Well, besides using bone spirit, i don't know how to PvP using a Necro, and 30 minutes ago, while my new barb, level 40, with the patriarch, was dueling another same level same class, as you know, one WW could kill a Sorc, or remove a good portion of the health, but today, the enemy was whirling 3 times at me, and i still and 3 quarters, and we whirled at each other, and none of us took damage! So, if somebody whirls at you, whirl back at them! Nobody takes damage, and i could not count how much mana pots i drank :confused:

And i was pvping a amazon, and the amazon was level 46, when i was hostiled, i ran out, cried, and WW through the zon, and i got 20k gold.

Taft12

07-02-2005, 18:59

IN the Asia realm, all the top players in the ladder, none of them used spears, and bowazons and javazons were pretty evenly spread, i use a sniperzon myself, a crossbow, aims for 1 hit kills......

Pardon the dumb question, but what is a sniperzon? A Bowazon that concentrates on damage instead of attack speed? (hence the crossbow)

What are the stats on your bow?

zrk

07-02-2005, 19:44

the sniperzon build seems interesting. what skills does it use?

sahlakh

07-02-2005, 20:41

Some questions for people, who know something about classic to keep the thread alive.

I have some gear gathered, and thinking of starting a hammerdin (2nd attempt) either a barb.

1) Concentration works 100% in classic, right? (only boosting 50% in lod, that's for sure) If so, what's the best way to max out skills damage wise?

2) Is 48% fcr breakpoint enough, or should I aim for 75%? That's no frosties then, and not lots of mana...

3) 51 is the required dex, but how much str? I know 75 for tower shield and 80 for goldskin, but is it worth it? Or 55 for a rare mage plate?

4) Gear suggestions.

Shard
Magefist
fcr/mana ring
rare res. ring
rare belt
rare boots/tearhauc
Gemmed helm (rubies/saphires)?
Goldskin/rare mage plate?
3 pdiamond tower/+skill pally shield?
Mahim/noko?

5) What's the 'best' weapon class for a standard ww build? S/S, polearm or maces?

6) Does the range affect ww (like in lod) and weapon speed?

7) Should I invest more than enough in str for more dmg or put the rest into vitality?

8) Rattlecage, snap and goblin toes would make it 95% CB. Which is better, max crushing blow or a 250 max martel/lance/whatever.

9) Gear suggestions.

Sigon helmet + gloves (ar + leech) / bloodfist + rare helm?
Rare ornate plate
Hsarus belt + boots / rare / goblin toes?
Angelic combo + dual leech ring
Rare lance / marte de fer / bonesnap?

I'm playing on Europe chcl (*empeh / *empeh2). So staying alive is prolly the most important aspect, and maybe even killing something. :P

Thanks a lot.

-Tempus-

07-02-2005, 21:16

1) ya it does. just put points into Baim untill 17 then add to both bh/conc from 18 on. as you add more points to BH the mana cost is going to go up but you can add points to aim/vigor and still have the same mana cost to BH. if you find a few +skill items you can go with lower conc at the start.

2) ya 50% works just fine but you can get 75% with the shard +eyeless + caster ring or amulet or shard + 2 rings/amulet.

3) when i use a shard i'm also using set items to get the dex to use it. if you can get all the dex to use it off items, the same goes for str. 41-60 base str is all you need for normal items most of the time.

4) all those items will work just fine, you can also use other uniqs like garb, nightsmoke, caster amulets.

5) for your first barb i'd go with mace. then you can go 2hd, mace/shield or 2 1hd maces. they all work with ww, you could make a 50-60 base str mace barb (and use bonesnap or stealdriver) and drop the rest of your points into vit. if you then find some great weapon you can always make a new barb for that.

6) range works the same as in LOD. speed doesnt, all weapons ww at the same speed in D2C. so base 20 weapons are the same as -50

7) titan barbs can work in D2C and bvb but without all the +life items in LOD its very hard to do that. i had a lev 65 titan barb mule in D2C that would hit for a ton but would die from any lag all the time. more str is more dmg but its best to have some of both. build with 60, 100, 170, +250 base str all work but most will get str/dex to use items then put the rest into vit.

8) i hate monster flee with ww but crushing blow and open wounds helps a ton in D2C. even with a +250 weapon adding on boneflesh + Gtoe will help you kill even faster as long as you also have the AR to hit.

9) that all works untill you can build a setup with rare items. something that works at low levs is
sigs boots + helm
deaths gloves + belt
anglic amulet + rings
boneflesh
mana leech from weapon or from 1 ring
thats 23%LL, mass AR, and 7%mf + what you can get off your weapon

-Tempus-

TheCerberus

08-02-2005, 00:22

Invitus

08-02-2005, 04:55

the sniperzon build seems interesting. what skills does it use?

As the name suggests, you aim for 1 hit kill, so, it must be a lethal shot

Critical Strike, Penetrate MUST BE MAXED

Guided Arrow perhaps? If you want to pvp
Immolation arrow can also be maxed-> WHen maxed, the damage added is pretty good, and freezing arrow? If you want to deal with fire immunes

And for the gear, any gear with add dex will do, lotsa dex, just enough strength for the gear, because it is dex that increases the damage, no strength, the stronger, the better, MORE DAMAGE=BETTER

Taft12: yea, power>speed

Invitus

08-02-2005, 04:57

If you whirl at the same time as the other barbarian, you will take damage. Maybe you were both blocking the hits, or didn't have enough Attack Rating.

BvB is just two barbs WWing each other. Someone dies, someone wins.

WOuldnt it be very cool if 2 barbs whirled at each other, then there are sparks, then the barbs bounce off each other? And the weaker barb takes damage?

That would be so cool, but too bad they just go through, i wasted 14 mana pots yesterday just whirling and dealing and receiving no damage :\

Invitus

08-02-2005, 05:35

And another question, after going for a CS run, i bought the patriarch for 6k gold! NICE!!!!!!!!!
Then, i fitted to my WW barb with the uper block shield, then i wanted to socket the partriarch, few questions:
Could i do that?
Would it remove the magical properties?

BEcause it has quite some good mods

(26-28) - (42-46) 1H Dmg
(52-57) - (86-94) 2H Dmg
50 Durability
100 Str Required
60 Dex Required
Item Level: 39
Clvl Req: 29

Physical Damage Taken Reduced by 3
Magical Damage Taken Reduced by 3
Hit Blinds Target
100% extra gold found
+100-120% Enhanced Damage
+10 to Strength

Range: 3
Weapon Speed: 10
Dmg Bonus: 100 Str
Swing Speed:
Fast: As/P
Normal: Am/B/D/N/S

So if i want to escape, i just have to whirl a few times, then they go blind and then i run away, should i cube it with sockets?

-Tempus-

08-02-2005, 07:28

you can only add sockets to rare items.

the patriarch is nice if you goldfind but for dmg you can pickup a magic sword with more dmg then that. the very best sword would be close to 250 max dmg, the patriarch just isnt that good of a sword in hell. it may work in normal but after that i would look for something with higher dmg.

blind works vs monster but not people. its a nice mod to have and also works well if you need to hit and run.

-Tempus-

Invitus

08-02-2005, 10:50

And since it is a unique, the recipe wont work :(:(

I have never found any items or weapons in classic that does damage over 100, pity me!
I am planning to do lots and lots of PvP with my barb, especially BvB, i need some good weapons? Any suggestions?

btw, once, i was doing cow levels, and during that 10 minutes, i kept on WW nonstop, with my manaleech, then my weapon broke 9 times!

Taft12

08-02-2005, 18:59

As the name suggests, you aim for 1 hit kill, so, it must be a lethal shot

Critical Strike, Penetrate MUST BE MAXED

Guided Arrow perhaps? If you want to pvp
Immolation arrow can also be maxed-> WHen maxed, the damage added is pretty good, and freezing arrow? If you want to deal with fire immunes

And for the gear, any gear with add dex will do, lotsa dex, just enough strength for the gear, because it is dex that increases the damage, no strength, the stronger, the better, MORE DAMAGE=BETTER

Taft12: yea, power>speed

Thanks for the reply Invitus. I might build one of these and am quickly sketching out a rough build guide. I play mostly PvM and I gotta think a high level Valk is a must to tank since vit will be low. Do you use strafe most of the time? A Hellcast bow should be nice through normal and nightmare but in hell, a rare gothic or ballista will probably be in order (damn the str reqs are high on those...)

Other than that, I'm looking at Biggin's Bonnet, Twitch, Manald and nice rares to fill out the rest (might try death's belt/gloves if I can find the belt). Which synergy works best with Immo Arrow? I haven't used that skill in a whle.

TheCerberus

09-02-2005, 00:17

If you're starting out as a PvP barb, follow my guide but use a Battle Hammer. You'll have more life but less range, but range is very hard to learn to use the first times. You can just whirl at them with a BH.

Invitus

09-02-2005, 04:11

Thanks for the reply Invitus. I might build one of these and am quickly sketching out a rough build guide. I play mostly PvM and I gotta think a high level Valk is a must to tank since vit will be low. Do you use strafe most of the time? A Hellcast bow should be nice through normal and nightmare but in hell, a rare gothic or ballista will probably be in order (damn the str reqs are high on those...)

Other than that, I'm looking at Biggin's Bonnet, Twitch, Manald and nice rares to fill out the rest (might try death's belt/gloves if I can find the belt). Which synergy works best with Immo Arrow? I haven't used that skill in a whle.

Only put 1 into strafe, because it will activate other monsters that were 'dormant', and due to lack of speed, trying to kill all of them would take a long time, and just put the rest into valkyrie, the spare points into valkyrie will do

Invitus

10-02-2005, 06:47

To be honest, i don't like valkyrie that much, they are too slow, and they will activate other monsters too, but also too to use as a distraction.

For thr strafe: I know what you are thinking, if other monsters are activatd, cant you just keep on using strafe? Well, good point, but i still dont like it, the lack of firing speed means you should only take 1 monster at a time, or instead of strafe, you can get pierce.

MOst of the time, you won't be soloing, but in parties, and you don't want to 'pull' monsters to you, you want to be at the back line, so just watch out.

Wambat

11-02-2005, 20:52

-Tempus-

12-02-2005, 01:13

I have a classic mule I am lvling for max BO and synergies. I am only putting one point into Find Item, Berserk, the passive skills and sword mastery. I know swords are not the best, but that's what I have chosen.

My quandary now is how much I should be putting in my str and dex. I don't care too much about getting the max possible vit for my barb since he will only be in games to BO, but I don't want to go overboard on str and dex; I just want to be sure he has enough to have no problems equipping desired swords and armor later in the game.

one of my d2c barbs is use to give my other chars bo/shout/command. he has all 3 of them max'd, he has 1 point mace mastery, skin, NR, pot find :scratch: with the rest of his points going into warcry. i went mace so he could use a bonesnap or stealdriver. with 50-60 base str, base dex rest going into vit. i didnt want to use swords because of the dex req. when i was lev'ing him i was able to kill just fine with 1 point base conc/zerk since i had max bo/shout for the added dmg.

what kind of sword do you want to use? will you use en exe or rune sword or maybe something else. findout whats the reqs for that and put str/dex so you can use it. then drop the rest into vit.

if you want to use the max +skill setup in D2C you'll want to have 100 str after items. that way you can can use silk, the rest of your items would be
magefist, 2 sojs, 2 +2 weapons, tarn, +2 amulet.

-Tempus-