Kremtok
23-11-2004, 15:26
We finally got our own trading forum! :clap:
Now that we have it, we need to make sure that it becomes and remains a friendly place to trade. ALL are expected to abide by the below listed rules. You may recognize them as the Trading FAQ and FAQ on Gameplay Altering Techniques that appear in the Single Player Forum - with one exception rune trading is prohibited in the Single Player Trading Forum. Until we come up with more comprehensive guidelines, these are the rules to follow.
IGNORANCE TO THESE RULES IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR BREAKING THEM!
Elly's announcement:
We now offer a dedicated trading forum for those playing Single Player and Open characters. This will be moderated by the Single Player Moderators, AlterEgo and Kremtok and will be bound by the same trade rules as apply to our other trading forums. You can find it here: http://www.rpgforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=100
SPF Trading FAQ
Trust
This is what we base all our trades on. Without trust there can be no trading, simple enough. If you don’t know someone, you can try to read the previous trading threads on the forums to see if that person has had many trades in the past, if people are trading often with that person. That generally means that the person is trusted.
Do not simply look into a persons post count and think "gee, that guy has over 1000 posts, he must be well known player here, it must be safe to trade with him", this is simply not true. There are numerous different forums within the RPGForums.net, there are forums for Warcraft 3, which is a completely different game. There are forums for general chit chatting, also known as Off Topic discussion forums. There are simply so many ways that a person can do to get high post count, so that doesn’t tell you anything.
Also, there is no telling if an perfectly fine and legit looking item is in reality a dupe. Anyone can trade their legitimately found Windforce away and still keep a copy of it on their own computer.
Common courtesies on trading
Posting a trade
• When you post a tradelist, be sure to state if you're playing an older version of the game, a modded game (even if it's "just one to change rune colors"), or if you're playing in Hardcore mode.
• If you’ve already posted a list of items to trade, or an single item, if someone shows interests in it, post the ATMA readouts about it if asked, or at the very least, PM the readouts to that person
• Do not post your trade list multiple times in the trading thread, people who are interested in trading, will see it without spamming.
• If you suspect that a person is trading suspicious items or items that are clearly hacked or duped, do not flame that person in the forums, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue.
• Do not post fake item lists, not even as a joke. This can easily lead into flaming and spoil the whole thread with that nonsense.
Actual trading
• With the release of ATMA for Diablo II version 1.10, the standard procedure in trading is to use mule characters sent via E-mail that include the items traded for. Note that there is an exception to this, Macintosh users, who are currently without this program, trading with Mac users should happen in TCP/IP games unless the two of you can organize some other means of the item transaction
• Another exception is really big trades, what if you trade so much items that it doesn’t fit into a mule character? Well the answer is stash files created by ATMA. These files can only be opened using ATMA and you can recognize them from the .d2x ending of the file name.
• When you’ve succesfully traded items with someone, inform that person about receiving the item in good condition so that the person you are trading with, knows that you have received the item and can safely delete the mule.
• Note that you also shouldn't delete the mule you've sent before the person you're trading with confirms that it's received in working condition.
Possible problems while trading
As we are all playing in Single Player games, where editors, dupes and hacks are a possibility, we all wish to avoid those, yet at times it feels impossible when the items don’t seem to be any different from the legitimate ones. Here’s some tips on recognizing an problematic item and avoiding such situations.
A list of common known dupes (http://www.geocities.com/randall_mod1/warehouse.html)
These items appear in the 1.10 Beta Item Warehouse and they are all dupes, there's no way that a person could have legitimate items with these fingerprints.
Please note that this is not an complete list of every dupe, just the ones that were on the item warehouse, anything can be duped, so again, use caution and common sense in your trades.
General tips
• First of all, trade only with people you trust, don’t go for that "I have a zod for trade, want Shako for it". If something feels like there’s something wrong, there’s high chances that there is.
• Always remember that you can ask questions on the items origins, you are allowed to ask why someone offers so much for an item that’s clearly inferior to the one offered.
• Note that this doesn’t always ring true, some people are Grail collectors (collecting every unique and set item in the game) and they might have been looking for some specific item for ages without no avail, thus they might be willing to pay alot for seemingly worthless item.
• You can ask for the ATMA readouts, if you see something that’s clearly wrong, an Stone of Jordan unique ring with +2 to skills for example, or an Tyrael’s Might with ilvl as 1. Anything that’s clearly wrong, then don’t fall for a trade there. Inform the moderator to ask that person about the items origins.
• Keep track on what you’ve traded with others, even if it’s just saving the E-mails about your trades and that way keeping a "trade history", this can later be used to track the origin of an item if something goes wrong later on, believe me, it can happen.
• One method on detecting dupes is to check the item you’ve traded with someone with the Dupe Detector in ATMA, simply load the character or stash with the traded item and run it through the detector, if it doesn’t say anything being wrong, then it’s not in the common dupes list. The program checks this by looking at the items fingerprint and comparing it to the known dupes list.
• What is the fingerprint? It's an code that's different for each and every item generated in Diablo II, if a person comes up to you saying that he has two SoJs for trade and he says something like "of course the print is the same, they have same stats" then he's lying. No item ever has the same fingerprint.
• Last but not least, if you feel cheated on a trade, an item shows "bad" when you receive or it’s not what you were trading in the first place, give the other person a chance to reply to your PM about it, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue. If you can come up with a peaceful solution of canceling the trade that’s even better. But again, do not start accusing and flaming before knowing that other persons side for things.
Trading runes
RUNE TRADING IS NOT PERMITTED IN THE SINGLE PLAYER TRADING FORUM.
Final words
If you feel that there's something missing in this FAQ, please post about it either in this thread, a new thread about the FAQs or then PM me (Borlag) about it. Other than these advices and general guidelines here, remember to be fair on your trades, that way you'll have alot more pleasant trades in the future aswell.
Thanks for Randall on the dupe database information
The SPF FAQ on Usage of Gameplay Affecting Techniques
By: Cauthon
Q. Do we really need another FAQ?
A. Apparently, yes. Questions regarding the use of character editors, mods, and methods of influencing game play have been increasing in the SPF, and it was felt that a lack of a consistent answer to that question was leading to flames and the perception of the SPF as a hostile place to newcomers. This FAQ is an attempt to provide that consistent answer.
Q. OK then. What do you mean by Gameplay Affecting Techniques?
A. For the purposes of this FAQ, a Gameplay Affecting Technique (GAT) is any process that alters the fundamental play of Diablo II. Examples:
1) Usage of a third-party program that allows you to create items that would not be created in the game of Diablo II as issued by Blizzard,
2) Methods that allow you to change character attributes or skills without leveling inside the game,
3) Modifications to the game code that change the frequency or type of item drops or monster spawning.
In short, anything that affects the play of Diablo II. These can fall into several categories:
I). Any third party modification to gameplay, whether or not it gives the player advantage. This includes, but is not limited to: runestats, drop mods, maphack, d2hackit, mods such as the Middle Earth mod for D2.
II). Use of command line edits. These include the "-seed," "-act5," "-w," and other commands that can be placed on the command lines at start-up.
III). In game commands, such as /players X and /nopickup.
Q. Ok, so now I know what they are. What does the SPF think about them?
A. Let's consider each category in turn, shall we?
I). Third party modifications to game play: Those that provide advantage to the player (maphack, drop mods, d2hackit) are frowned upon both by the membership and the forum rules. Other types of mods, such as the Middle Earth mod for D2, are viewed neutrally by the community - they are different versions of the game of D2.
II). Command line edits: These include commands that are considered innocuous, such as the command that allows you to play in a window or skip directly to the bnet login screen at startup, to those that are considered methods for abusing the game. The two in particular that have caused a lot of discussion are the "-act5" and "-seed" commands.
-act5 allows for the creation of a level 33 character at the beginning of act 5, with all skill and stat points unspent. Since this involves no effort on the part of the player, it is not considered an acceptable command to use.
-seed affects the random number generator in the game. If abused, it can lead to the creation of games wherein powerful items can drop with some frequency. This usage is not considered acceptable.
However, it also allows for the recovery of maps if a player accidentally changes difficulties or joins a multiplayer game. The consensus of the SPF is that the -seed command can be used to recover a map. However, once the map is recovered, the player should exit the game, clear "-seed" from the command line, and return to playing as this prevents abuse. Under no circumstances should map seeds be shared with other forum members. You should be up front about your use of this command when seeking to trade as well.
Commands that ease the workload on your CPU by running D2 in windowed mode or without sound are not considered GATs.
III). In game commands, such as the "/players X" or "/fps" commands, are viewed as part of the game by the SPF.
Q. So, what are you saying? Can I use them or not?
A. The stance on the SPF is that you are allowed to do whatever you want on your own computer, provided it doesn't affect anybody else. Thus, feel free to mod, change settings, use character editors to your heart's content. However:
-open discussion on the use of third party programs that create an advantage (cheats, hacks or editors) will not be permitted, as per forum rules.
-if you are using any game mod or command line edit, we ask that you be up front about that when seeking to trade or seeking multiplayer games. Many SPF members may not be using the same mod (and thus unable to trade with you), or may be uneasy about accepting trades for items found by characters using these methods. They may also prefer not to play in MP games with such a character, and these characters will also not be welcome on either the SP Softcore or Hardcore ladders.
You do not need to declare the use of in-game commands when proposing trades.
Q. But I found six uber-leet awesome uniques using XXXXX last night, and I want to trade!
A. The SPF economy thrives solely on trust. We have to believe that the items being traded are not the result of changes to the game - otherwise, the fundamental value of items becomes meaningless. Someone smart enough could create mods that enable elite uniques to drop with incredible frequency, which would destroy the value of items. For an example of the problems that exploits can create in an economy, note what has happened to the value of items on battle.net following the outbreak of new duping methods. We would like to prevent that here.
For more information on trading in the SPF, see our FAQ on SPF trading.
Q. So I can use program XXXX to make my character an unkillable god?
A. Yes, go ahead. Just don't expect to be able to trade what that character finds, play in MP games with people from the SPF, or join the ladders.
Q. Where can I find a character/item editor?
A. We can't discuss that here due to forum rules; try a search on Google.
Q. What about bugged items and skills?
A. Bugged items and skills have existed in every version of the game. In 1.09, Eth runes were bugged, as were the skills that gave characters a chance at critical strikes. In 1.10, Marrowwalk boots have an exceptionally powerful bug for Necromancers. The SPF considers the use of such bugs/features as up to the individual player. However, if you are using known bugs like these, we ask that you be open about it; we won't condemn you, but those players who feel strongly about such things may not wish to trade with you.
Once again, it is your computer, and we aren't going to tell you what to do on it. Before you get mad at those who don't accept the use of bugs or GATs that you like, remember it is their computer, and they can do what they want on it.
Q. But what about ATMA?
A. ATMA is a program that does not directly affect gameplay. It allows for muling between single player characters, and is considered the best method of doing so (other methods do exist). It does not change the character, drops, or items, or any other facet of playing the game of Diablo II. What it does allow is quick and simple transferring of items between single-player characters, much like characters created on battle.net enjoy. Some players here reject ATMA as a non-legit way to play; others embrace it; and others limit their usage of it. ATMA is the primary vehicle through which trades on the SPF are managed.
ATMA can be used to "hot-mule." This refers to muling items off a character while that character is still in an active game, and has been primarily proposed as a means for enabling a single player character to deal with finding a second Gheed's Fortune charm during play so that both charms can be kept. The player would mule one charm off into their stash, and then return to the game, delete the charm just muled (as otherwise it would be a dupe), and continue playing. Consensus on this issue has not yet been reached.
Similarly other non-gameplay affecting programs are around, including various spreadsheets for tracking items found and calculators for analyzing build strengths are allowable.
Now that we have it, we need to make sure that it becomes and remains a friendly place to trade. ALL are expected to abide by the below listed rules. You may recognize them as the Trading FAQ and FAQ on Gameplay Altering Techniques that appear in the Single Player Forum - with one exception rune trading is prohibited in the Single Player Trading Forum. Until we come up with more comprehensive guidelines, these are the rules to follow.
IGNORANCE TO THESE RULES IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR BREAKING THEM!
Elly's announcement:
We now offer a dedicated trading forum for those playing Single Player and Open characters. This will be moderated by the Single Player Moderators, AlterEgo and Kremtok and will be bound by the same trade rules as apply to our other trading forums. You can find it here: http://www.rpgforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=100
SPF Trading FAQ
Trust
This is what we base all our trades on. Without trust there can be no trading, simple enough. If you don’t know someone, you can try to read the previous trading threads on the forums to see if that person has had many trades in the past, if people are trading often with that person. That generally means that the person is trusted.
Do not simply look into a persons post count and think "gee, that guy has over 1000 posts, he must be well known player here, it must be safe to trade with him", this is simply not true. There are numerous different forums within the RPGForums.net, there are forums for Warcraft 3, which is a completely different game. There are forums for general chit chatting, also known as Off Topic discussion forums. There are simply so many ways that a person can do to get high post count, so that doesn’t tell you anything.
Also, there is no telling if an perfectly fine and legit looking item is in reality a dupe. Anyone can trade their legitimately found Windforce away and still keep a copy of it on their own computer.
Common courtesies on trading
Posting a trade
• When you post a tradelist, be sure to state if you're playing an older version of the game, a modded game (even if it's "just one to change rune colors"), or if you're playing in Hardcore mode.
• If you’ve already posted a list of items to trade, or an single item, if someone shows interests in it, post the ATMA readouts about it if asked, or at the very least, PM the readouts to that person
• Do not post your trade list multiple times in the trading thread, people who are interested in trading, will see it without spamming.
• If you suspect that a person is trading suspicious items or items that are clearly hacked or duped, do not flame that person in the forums, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue.
• Do not post fake item lists, not even as a joke. This can easily lead into flaming and spoil the whole thread with that nonsense.
Actual trading
• With the release of ATMA for Diablo II version 1.10, the standard procedure in trading is to use mule characters sent via E-mail that include the items traded for. Note that there is an exception to this, Macintosh users, who are currently without this program, trading with Mac users should happen in TCP/IP games unless the two of you can organize some other means of the item transaction
• Another exception is really big trades, what if you trade so much items that it doesn’t fit into a mule character? Well the answer is stash files created by ATMA. These files can only be opened using ATMA and you can recognize them from the .d2x ending of the file name.
• When you’ve succesfully traded items with someone, inform that person about receiving the item in good condition so that the person you are trading with, knows that you have received the item and can safely delete the mule.
• Note that you also shouldn't delete the mule you've sent before the person you're trading with confirms that it's received in working condition.
Possible problems while trading
As we are all playing in Single Player games, where editors, dupes and hacks are a possibility, we all wish to avoid those, yet at times it feels impossible when the items don’t seem to be any different from the legitimate ones. Here’s some tips on recognizing an problematic item and avoiding such situations.
A list of common known dupes (http://www.geocities.com/randall_mod1/warehouse.html)
These items appear in the 1.10 Beta Item Warehouse and they are all dupes, there's no way that a person could have legitimate items with these fingerprints.
Please note that this is not an complete list of every dupe, just the ones that were on the item warehouse, anything can be duped, so again, use caution and common sense in your trades.
General tips
• First of all, trade only with people you trust, don’t go for that "I have a zod for trade, want Shako for it". If something feels like there’s something wrong, there’s high chances that there is.
• Always remember that you can ask questions on the items origins, you are allowed to ask why someone offers so much for an item that’s clearly inferior to the one offered.
• Note that this doesn’t always ring true, some people are Grail collectors (collecting every unique and set item in the game) and they might have been looking for some specific item for ages without no avail, thus they might be willing to pay alot for seemingly worthless item.
• You can ask for the ATMA readouts, if you see something that’s clearly wrong, an Stone of Jordan unique ring with +2 to skills for example, or an Tyrael’s Might with ilvl as 1. Anything that’s clearly wrong, then don’t fall for a trade there. Inform the moderator to ask that person about the items origins.
• Keep track on what you’ve traded with others, even if it’s just saving the E-mails about your trades and that way keeping a "trade history", this can later be used to track the origin of an item if something goes wrong later on, believe me, it can happen.
• One method on detecting dupes is to check the item you’ve traded with someone with the Dupe Detector in ATMA, simply load the character or stash with the traded item and run it through the detector, if it doesn’t say anything being wrong, then it’s not in the common dupes list. The program checks this by looking at the items fingerprint and comparing it to the known dupes list.
• What is the fingerprint? It's an code that's different for each and every item generated in Diablo II, if a person comes up to you saying that he has two SoJs for trade and he says something like "of course the print is the same, they have same stats" then he's lying. No item ever has the same fingerprint.
• Last but not least, if you feel cheated on a trade, an item shows "bad" when you receive or it’s not what you were trading in the first place, give the other person a chance to reply to your PM about it, inform the moderator of the forum (AlterEgo) and let him help resolve the issue. If you can come up with a peaceful solution of canceling the trade that’s even better. But again, do not start accusing and flaming before knowing that other persons side for things.
Trading runes
RUNE TRADING IS NOT PERMITTED IN THE SINGLE PLAYER TRADING FORUM.
Final words
If you feel that there's something missing in this FAQ, please post about it either in this thread, a new thread about the FAQs or then PM me (Borlag) about it. Other than these advices and general guidelines here, remember to be fair on your trades, that way you'll have alot more pleasant trades in the future aswell.
Thanks for Randall on the dupe database information
The SPF FAQ on Usage of Gameplay Affecting Techniques
By: Cauthon
Q. Do we really need another FAQ?
A. Apparently, yes. Questions regarding the use of character editors, mods, and methods of influencing game play have been increasing in the SPF, and it was felt that a lack of a consistent answer to that question was leading to flames and the perception of the SPF as a hostile place to newcomers. This FAQ is an attempt to provide that consistent answer.
Q. OK then. What do you mean by Gameplay Affecting Techniques?
A. For the purposes of this FAQ, a Gameplay Affecting Technique (GAT) is any process that alters the fundamental play of Diablo II. Examples:
1) Usage of a third-party program that allows you to create items that would not be created in the game of Diablo II as issued by Blizzard,
2) Methods that allow you to change character attributes or skills without leveling inside the game,
3) Modifications to the game code that change the frequency or type of item drops or monster spawning.
In short, anything that affects the play of Diablo II. These can fall into several categories:
I). Any third party modification to gameplay, whether or not it gives the player advantage. This includes, but is not limited to: runestats, drop mods, maphack, d2hackit, mods such as the Middle Earth mod for D2.
II). Use of command line edits. These include the "-seed," "-act5," "-w," and other commands that can be placed on the command lines at start-up.
III). In game commands, such as /players X and /nopickup.
Q. Ok, so now I know what they are. What does the SPF think about them?
A. Let's consider each category in turn, shall we?
I). Third party modifications to game play: Those that provide advantage to the player (maphack, drop mods, d2hackit) are frowned upon both by the membership and the forum rules. Other types of mods, such as the Middle Earth mod for D2, are viewed neutrally by the community - they are different versions of the game of D2.
II). Command line edits: These include commands that are considered innocuous, such as the command that allows you to play in a window or skip directly to the bnet login screen at startup, to those that are considered methods for abusing the game. The two in particular that have caused a lot of discussion are the "-act5" and "-seed" commands.
-act5 allows for the creation of a level 33 character at the beginning of act 5, with all skill and stat points unspent. Since this involves no effort on the part of the player, it is not considered an acceptable command to use.
-seed affects the random number generator in the game. If abused, it can lead to the creation of games wherein powerful items can drop with some frequency. This usage is not considered acceptable.
However, it also allows for the recovery of maps if a player accidentally changes difficulties or joins a multiplayer game. The consensus of the SPF is that the -seed command can be used to recover a map. However, once the map is recovered, the player should exit the game, clear "-seed" from the command line, and return to playing as this prevents abuse. Under no circumstances should map seeds be shared with other forum members. You should be up front about your use of this command when seeking to trade as well.
Commands that ease the workload on your CPU by running D2 in windowed mode or without sound are not considered GATs.
III). In game commands, such as the "/players X" or "/fps" commands, are viewed as part of the game by the SPF.
Q. So, what are you saying? Can I use them or not?
A. The stance on the SPF is that you are allowed to do whatever you want on your own computer, provided it doesn't affect anybody else. Thus, feel free to mod, change settings, use character editors to your heart's content. However:
-open discussion on the use of third party programs that create an advantage (cheats, hacks or editors) will not be permitted, as per forum rules.
-if you are using any game mod or command line edit, we ask that you be up front about that when seeking to trade or seeking multiplayer games. Many SPF members may not be using the same mod (and thus unable to trade with you), or may be uneasy about accepting trades for items found by characters using these methods. They may also prefer not to play in MP games with such a character, and these characters will also not be welcome on either the SP Softcore or Hardcore ladders.
You do not need to declare the use of in-game commands when proposing trades.
Q. But I found six uber-leet awesome uniques using XXXXX last night, and I want to trade!
A. The SPF economy thrives solely on trust. We have to believe that the items being traded are not the result of changes to the game - otherwise, the fundamental value of items becomes meaningless. Someone smart enough could create mods that enable elite uniques to drop with incredible frequency, which would destroy the value of items. For an example of the problems that exploits can create in an economy, note what has happened to the value of items on battle.net following the outbreak of new duping methods. We would like to prevent that here.
For more information on trading in the SPF, see our FAQ on SPF trading.
Q. So I can use program XXXX to make my character an unkillable god?
A. Yes, go ahead. Just don't expect to be able to trade what that character finds, play in MP games with people from the SPF, or join the ladders.
Q. Where can I find a character/item editor?
A. We can't discuss that here due to forum rules; try a search on Google.
Q. What about bugged items and skills?
A. Bugged items and skills have existed in every version of the game. In 1.09, Eth runes were bugged, as were the skills that gave characters a chance at critical strikes. In 1.10, Marrowwalk boots have an exceptionally powerful bug for Necromancers. The SPF considers the use of such bugs/features as up to the individual player. However, if you are using known bugs like these, we ask that you be open about it; we won't condemn you, but those players who feel strongly about such things may not wish to trade with you.
Once again, it is your computer, and we aren't going to tell you what to do on it. Before you get mad at those who don't accept the use of bugs or GATs that you like, remember it is their computer, and they can do what they want on it.
Q. But what about ATMA?
A. ATMA is a program that does not directly affect gameplay. It allows for muling between single player characters, and is considered the best method of doing so (other methods do exist). It does not change the character, drops, or items, or any other facet of playing the game of Diablo II. What it does allow is quick and simple transferring of items between single-player characters, much like characters created on battle.net enjoy. Some players here reject ATMA as a non-legit way to play; others embrace it; and others limit their usage of it. ATMA is the primary vehicle through which trades on the SPF are managed.
ATMA can be used to "hot-mule." This refers to muling items off a character while that character is still in an active game, and has been primarily proposed as a means for enabling a single player character to deal with finding a second Gheed's Fortune charm during play so that both charms can be kept. The player would mule one charm off into their stash, and then return to the game, delete the charm just muled (as otherwise it would be a dupe), and continue playing. Consensus on this issue has not yet been reached.
Similarly other non-gameplay affecting programs are around, including various spreadsheets for tracking items found and calculators for analyzing build strengths are allowable.