*drumroll* Any interest in kicking up LLD again?

[zarfen]

I've had this feeling for some time now, that there any many people who would love for the lld scene to come back, but noone takes any action. I'm one of those and I'd love some lld action once again.

I wasn't with the lld scene quite to the end last time, so I'm not sure on what really killed it or how it looked like at the moment.

Anyway, I did some uber searching, and found this (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=497458) post made by my lld hero psycho, the rules that are stated in there are these:


General Rules
Please try to be polite, so don't town guard, corpse guard, steal gold, etc.
Characters must be level 18 or under and cannot be rushed beyond Act II Normal (ergo only the Den Of Evil and Radament bonuses may figure in a character's skill makeup)
Corpseless Re-castables are only allowed (no Skeletons or Magi)
Characters requiring arrows or bolts must have their full supply on their character (in their hand, inventory or Horadric Cube). They will not be allowed to return to town if they run out of arrows or bolts during a duel, although extra quivers may be dropped just inside town to facilitate easier replenishment between duels
All duels take place in the Blood Moor
Duels only start when both parties have clearly stated their readiness
Leaving the Blood Moor constitutes a loss. In team play, the remaining members may continue fighting but the deserted player may not rejoin the fray and must stay out of the Blood Moor until the battle has concluded
In a team duel you must stay in town if you die until the duel is over

Players on 1hp

Players on 1 health are encouraged to stand and fight instead of running away and regenerating their health.

For opponents on 1 health:
Running from combat without switching to ranged/spellcasting equipment/skills and attempting to use them will result in a forfeit of the duel
Running from combat with a melee only build will result in a forfeit (an exception to this can be made for Barbarians needing more distance to engage with Leap or Leap Attack or a Paladin that needs more distance for Charge)

Banned Skills
Lifetap
Holy Bolt
Holy Freeze
Skeletons
Skeleton Magi

These items may not be used in the form of class skills, o-skills granted by items, charges, or Chance To Cast when striking.

Skill Restrictions

The following skills have limitations regarding their use in duels.

Bone Armour (Necromancer) - this cannot be cast more than once per duel
Cyclone Armour (Druid) - this cannot be cast more than once per duel

Equipment Restrictions
Bugged, hacked or duped items cannot be used – 1.07 Crafted items are included in this category
No items from previous versions are to be used at all (including 1.10 and betas)
Items from Hardcore mode are not allowed to be brought into the Softcore arena
Items with the “Slows Target by X%” modifier are not allowed on physical-damage attackers (for example, Cleglaw’s Claw or Blackhorn’s Face). A caster character, however, can use items with the “Slows Target by X%” modifier if they wish (but may not use a physical/ranged attack)
Items with the “Knockback” modifier are not allowed on any character class. Skills that provide a knockback effect (for example, Smite, Bash, Charge or Leap Attack) are still allowed
Total Life Replenish from items and skills combined is limited to 20
Each character is only allowed to wear two sources of +Max Resist/absorb per element. For poison, Poison Length Reduction gear will count as absorb. Putting points into a Paladin's passive resist skill will not count towards sources of +Max Resist
Poison Length Reduction cannot be used against Poison builds
There is no limit to Elemental Damage from skills or otherwise
Poison damage is limited to 50 (including charms) - the exception to this is poison damage from skills

Character Restrictions

The following characters have limitations in Low Level Duelling.

Zealot:
Cleglaw's Sword may not be equipped
Crushing Blow may not be used

GA Amazon:
Critical Strike cannot be utilised

Bonemancers:
Cannot use Iron Maiden in conjunction with Bone Wall

Faster Run/Walk Restrictions

There is now a maximum of 75% FR/W combined from skills, gear and charms for the following characters who use skills that increase speed (Paladins with Vigor and Assassins with Burst of Speed).

The maximum combined FR/W for other characters who cannot (or do not), utilise the above 'increased speed' skills is 95%. This includes all FR/W from gear and charms.

The Druid's Feral Rage skill deserves a special mention here. The cap for Druid's with Feral Rage is 95%. The lowest bonus of FR/W from the skill level of Feral Rage is taken from the cap. For example:

At skill level 1, Feral Rage gives 19-32% to FR/W. A Druid that uses this skill would then take 19% (not 32%), from 95% giving an extra 76% FR/W to be used from gear and charms.

-----------------------------------------

If you look in the link to the thread, you can see there's also some discussion about the rules, where the most 'urgent' ones seem to be a limit on +maxers, and wheater or not CS should be banned.

So, are you guys interested in tweaking these rules further? Mainly to prevent the zerg err, I mean zealot overuse.

And most importantly, would you be interested in playing some LLD? I dream of having back the small but great lld scene, but it can't be one without players.

So please state your interest here, so we can all see if there's more people interested or if it is only me :tongue:

Even if you never tried lld before, please join up if you feel like it would be fun. LLD doesn't require all that high end rw's and uniques you see in HLD. Usually a twitchroe and some other low uniques, paired with sigons or deaths gloves + belt are enough. Ofc there's always some jewels and charms that might be hard to find if you seek a truly great character, but last time my kicker did fine without all the charms.

So, who are with me in the resurrection of LLD?!

Moneky love
/zarf
:thumbsup:

edit, note on knockbak restriction. Skills that usually knock people back are allowed to use items with knockback (like crushfangel wielding leap attackers)

[Deaddave]

id love to lld back up and running again, it was great for cheep kicks,and didnt invole the mass funds just to be competative,
(good enought for ya zarf =P)
the only real rule change i would like to see limiting of maxers becuase it starting getting silly (i remember selling one for 50 pgems and that hardly keeps it cheep fun) so if we were to say limit it 2-3 maxers (or a better idea limit the pluss max to say 30 or 45) other than that all i can say is lets get this going again

[zarfen]

Nice to se a reply (:hide:)
I also think that the maxers are the most urgent to restrict, but I think 2-3 maxers are a bit too low, I'd also think a +total to max damage is a better rule as well.

Although I'm not sure how ashmer will feel about limiting maxers :hide:

[inSTAALed]

I'm all for it.

I was in the process of making a LLD char right now actually. :)

Also - No limit on maxers. :D

[zarfen]

I'm all for it.

I was in the process of making a LLD char right now actually. :)

Also - No limit on maxers. :D

Nice to see you onboard! Me and DD are also 8maybe) making a char soon, if we do I'll post in the mp thread so we can all go together :D

And if we dont put a limit on maxers, everyone will just make a zealot with as many maxers they can cram on, leaving no room for other fun builds.

edit:
Zealots are stupid.
Indeed. Maybe we could just ban maxers on paladins! *hides from paladin fanboys*
:laugh:

[inSTAALed]

Zealots are stupid.

[zarfen]

Making new lld chars!
83.226.185.147

I'm rwm/rrm 1.11b SC. fyi

[inSTAALed]

Joining...

[zarfen]

game down. maybe we can have the first lld's soon? :evil:

[The Cow King]

:pulls hair:

:shakes fist:

Afr arf!

I may not be participating due to leaving for b.net, or not having any 1.11b characters :cry:

Also I think half of my sustenance charms are from 1.07 :tongue:

[Ashmer Amadeus]

I'd be quite happy to join. I also vote for no limit on maxers. Let me count them up, 4 in the shield, (2 for non pallys), 3 in the helm, 1 in the armor, and upto six in the weapon. Thats upto 14 by my math. I'm okay with the ban on Clegs sword. The DS might make things unfair. I also wonder about allowing a couple differnt versions LLD. One where we are allowed to do a full normal rush. Also, whats the chance of this also allowing for other brackets. Say 29/30 and maybe 42/45? I'm glad to see you've taken the initiative to see this off. I have one charicter already built from before, and look forward to building at least a few others.

[Zhao_Yue]

Just some feedback.

- A major problem faced was a paladin would charge, run away, wait until 9 mana was replensished and charge again. This tactic was pretty annoying for strictly melee based builds.
- Elemental attacks are so weak at level 18 that I think +max and absorb should not be allowed. PLR should be exempt.
- The problem with the zealot is not Cleglaw's Sword or CB, but it's abitity to pack on so many +Max jewels (with a damage shield to boot) and use a quick delivery system for massive damage per second. Limiting equimpent/jewels should be considered.
- Not being able to use Critical Strike on an Amazon is just silly, that skill is their only damage modifier.
- I don't think the frw bonus from feral rage should be included in the cap. It is a skill that needs to be charged up, unlike BoS. Besides, shifters are pretty weak and need this advantage.
- Duskdeep should also be banned since it's -PDR was hurting smiters and kickers alot.

You should have posted this in the main forum for more visability.

[The Cow King]

Also, whats the chance of this also allowing for other brackets. Say 29/30 and maybe 42/45?

I'd definately vouch for this. LLD lvl 30 is the best dueling there is. There are so many builds and it's so awesome. Although personally I think anything 40+ goes somewhat alongside HLD, because then there'll be skillers etc...

At lvl 30 it's like the perfect balance between caster & melee, and you don't really have to meddle with teleport.

[colony]

I wouldn't mind some level 30 or 49 (well anything in between really) duels if there's actually a reasonable number of people that do it.

[OneFromBeyond]

I'd be interested in a L18 LLD duels

*OneFromBeyond

[Ashmer Amadeus]

I said 29/30 because it will be just before, or just when you get to use all your skills. If allowed, it would also allow a normal/nightmare rush, being that you could get past ancients. I think 30 would be a good balance between caster and melee. A fireball sorc would have plenty of synergies, and the barbs would have BO and WW. It also opens up some runewords. (Honor Lance charger?) I wouldn't consider 42/45 to be HLD, thats usually 80+. MLD might be a good bracket for it. The skillers is the reason I thought of it. Plain skillers (And some minor mods) are avalable at level 42, as are the first tier of class specific uniques. 45 would allow for Ravenfrost and Dwarfstar, both of which could be very important, given how strong casters could be at that level. I very much would like to play in the LLD, but I don't want to limit myself too much. On the other hand, I don't want this to be so wide open that everyone loses interest, or can't keep up with the potential number of charicters. Here are my thoughts on rules:

-Concerning chargers: ZY says they charge and retreat. Having never played a charger, would it be prudent to ban the use of Vigor/Charge at the same time?

-Zealots: I agree with ZY. The reason they dominate at level 18 is because they can deal damage so fast. Zeal can't be interupted. Yes DS from Clegs helps, but I'd bet I can get my zeal damage to be pretty close to 1000 without any DS. Five swings x 1000 damage should be enough to kill pretty much any charicter. Banning DS, or CB isn't going to help, because even without it I could deal a crazy amount of damage. I agree with ZY on the limiting of how many +damage jewels, or possibly the total amount of +damage per charicter. Another thought, even if it makes it more complex, change how much each charicter can have. A sorc by rights, should be able to have more +damage then a pally because they can't deal damage as fast. I'd like to start by suggesting a total of six jewels, at no more then +15 each. Or rather 6 with a total of +90 max, that way you can use less damage jewels with second mods, and make up the difference with a higher jewel.

-FRW: Again I agree with ZY. Being that BOS is always going to add a set amount of FRW and Feral Rage requires work, I would say not to include Feral Rage in the FRW computations.

-Equipment/SKills: Pallys should be allowed to use Clegs sword, but maybe ban that along with zeal?
-DS for Zons: I think that even with GA they should be allowed to use DS. GA will be very mana intensive at that level, therefore the number of GA shots will be very limited. And given how few damage modifiers a bowzon has at all, and especially at that level, they will need all the help they can get.
- Darksight Helm: Maybe allow it for now, but if it hurts to many builds (like ZY says) they remove it.
- Poison damage: How much poison damage can you really pack on at level 18? I also think that Deaths Hand will be a staple piece of equipment. Is there really a need to put a limit on the amount of poison damage a charicter can have?
-Replenish Life: How does Cleansing interact with Prayer? Does it add to the total life replenish, or does it make each point of replenish life add more life total? I'm probly just a noob, but someone has to be
-Resists/aborb: I'm under the impression that melee will be the ruling type at this level, is there a need to put a cap on resists/absorb.
-Cyclone Armor: Along the same line as the last one. Assuming I'm correct in melee dominating the format, allowing it to be cast just once wouldn't mean much. So would casting it more then once, but like I said, I'm just a noob.

I think thats it for now. I might come up with more later. I'll see what any(every)one has to say to my mostly agreeing with ZY.

[Ashmer Amadeus]

Can't edit, says I'm past my time limit. I've thought of something. Might require the input of a mod(?) Should all the LLD MP games be posted here, or in the standard PvP thread? Do we want this to be LLD info/questions/suggestions/discussion only, or should we also post the MP/PvP games here as well?

[Zhao_Yue]

Make a separate LLD thread. That was done before.

I wouldn't mind doing L30 as it looks interesting.

[DaveW]

I'd be interested in joining as well. Too bad this thread wasn't up a couple of days ago because I've just taken my planned MFer/PvP Pure Blizz Sorc to cl35 already. Oh well, time to get that that Raven Claw out and go again I guess. Perhaps a Pally .............. :evil:

[skoolbus]

I have virtually no items for pvp since I'm not using my old ones, but I feel like I can find/gather most of them to throw together a half decent lvl 30 or under pvper.

[OneFromBeyond]

What would the restrictions on the 29/30 duelers? I viewed a few other sites, but haven't found a complete or consistent list.

*OneFromBeyond

[The Cow King]

I'm just shamelessly going to copy paste, and everything is ofc open for change.

A Note about Dueling Etiquette:
-Castable minions (spirits, valks, shadow warrior/masters, etc..) are allowed to be intentionally or inadvertently attacked at any time at the start of or during a duel.


Character Level Restrictions:

Amazon - 30
Assassin - 30
Barbarian - 29
Barbarian***** - 30
Druid - 30
Necromancer - 30
Paladin (Melee*) - 29
Paladin (Charger**) - 27
Paladin (Smite***) - 28
Paladin (Fist of Heavens, Blessed Hammer****) - 30
Sorceress - 30

Skill Restrictions:

Paladins - Thorns may not be used at any time.

*Level 29 Melee Paladins may not use Holy Freeze, Charge, or Smite at any time.
**Pure Chargers are considered ranged characters. Any Paladin variant using charge as a means of attack is limited to level 27. Any Paladin can use charge as a means of transportation.
***Smiters may not use blessed hammer or charge against melee, but may use any other skill.
****Blessed Hammer Pallies and FoHers cannot use any damaging skill or attack aside from Blessed Hammer and/or Fist of Heavens. Conviction is allowed. Holy Freeze is allowed. Charge is allowed as a mode of transportation, but if you do connect occasionally, that is allowed and understandable sometimes due to desynch and the rapid movement of charge. (most BH or FoHers will not have enough dmg or AR to do much of anything anyway)


Amazon - Slow Missile may not be used at any time.

Assassin - Traps, mind blast, and psychic hammer are not allowed in melee duels. They are allowed in ranged duels. Dragon Flight is allowed in melee duels.

Barbarian - Level 29 Barbarians may use any skill they wish.
*****Level 30 Barbarians may not use Concentrate, but may use any other Combat Skill or War Cry they wish. Whirlwind is considered a ranged attack.

Druid - Ravens, spirit/dire wolves, grizzly, and vines are not allowed in melee duels.

Necromancer - May not use Bone Prison, Decrepify, or Clay Golem at any time.

Sorceress - May not use Teleport at any time.

All Classes - In a melee duel, no ranged weapons, skills, or spells may be used. (i.e. Charge, double throw, blizzard, guided arrow) In a ranged duel, no melee weapons may be used. An exception would be in a hybrid vs. hybrid duel where both characters have access to both a ranged and melee attack. However, the combatants must agree beforehand on which type of a duel they wish to do: either pure ranged, pure melee, or hybrid.

-Also, less popular builds, such as the bowadin or throw sorc, etc... may go to the maximum level allowed for that specific character class, which would be level 30. If you are unsure of whether or not a build falls under this category or not, please ask a moderator or admin for confirmation.



Item Restrictions:

-No items with the "Slows target by X%" modifier.
-No items with the "X% chance to cast Amplify Damage" modifier.
-No charged items are allowed to be used. (Example: Life Tap wands, Amp wands, Teleport amulets, etc.) The items themselves can be used, but the charges cannot be used.
-No Hacked, Duped, or Bugged Items are allowed in any shape or form at any time. This includes but is not limited to Carrion Grinder and Carrion Horn (classic USWest dupes).
-When dueling a character who relies primarily on elemental damage (sorc, trapsin, psn/cs zon, FoHer, etc...), only one Max Resistance Item per resistance may be used at the same time. Max Resistance Items refer to, but are not limited to: Hotspur, Venom Ward, Jade Tan Do, Infernostride, Nokozan relic, and Hawkmail. In other words, Hotspur and Nokozan Relic may not be used at the same time, but Hotspur and Hawkmail may be used at the same time.
-There is no limit to the amount of resistances you are allowed to stack.
-Rockfleece and String of Ears may not be used at the same time.
-Death's Gloves and Jade Tan Do or Venom Ward cannot be used at the same time against a character who primarily uses Poison Damage, i.e. a Psn Zon, Psn Nova Necro, and so on.
-You may have a total of -35 damage (damage reduced by x) on your character.
- The 'peace' runeword may not be used against any characters that use a ranged attack.


Other Restrictions:


-Characters may not pass Normal difficulty.
-All duels will take place in the Blood Moor in act 1.
-No mercenaries may be used at any time.
-No wells or shrines may be used during duels.
-No potions of any kind (including mana, antidote, and thawing potions). Throwing potions are allowed.
-No outside third party programs. (Including but not limited to Maphack)

[Zhao_Yue]

Anybody feeling like going for a LLD18 spin in about an hour?

[zarfen]

I was going to post in the main forum first, but I though the mods might get angry at me since we have a shiny MP forum now :hide:

I'm glad to see all this interest though, and I agree some things need to be changed.

It's also nice to see interest in other level duels, but my humble opinion is that it will get very, very messy if we start getting rules and testing for too many levels.

I suggest keepiung level 18 and maybe open up a little level 30 if someone's willing to tweak some spf friendly rules for level 30.

I also suggest an unban of critical strike asap, and probably a banning of duskkeep.

I also think we should eventually have some cap on either +maxer's or zealots, but imo one shouldn't disallow builds, but rather gear.

I'm gonan host soem level 18 soon if someone's up, I'll make a new thread.

EDIT: I'd prefer if we try to get the level 18 bracket stabilized before we introduce anotehr bracket. It's also easier for people to join in on, hence attracting more people, at 30 it's getting a bit more gear dependant.

EDIT 2:
RULE UPDATE
For now I decide we try thses changes:
Ban duskkeep
Limit the number of +maxers to a total of 6 for zealots only
Allow Critical strike
You are only allowed to wear 1 piece of +max resists, that is total, not per element, plr counts as +max resist
Feral rage's frw bonus does not count towards the max limit of frw

I haven't been active in lld for such a long time, I don't remember how it really was, so I think we should not make too many changes at once.

[The Cow King]

I'm thinking about starting over (ignore my first post, I must have been on crack!), do a full fresh start and giev away all my items. Somehow I just feel trading took the fun out of finding items. This time, however, I would find it much more appealing to start in HC mode, and this rule got me thinking.


Equipment Restrictions
Items from Hardcore mode are not allowed to be brought into the Softcore arenaSo does it really mean I could not participate? I would really like to do some LLD but if not so then bummer :sad2:


{Edit} To help you CK, and probly others, I plan on making a LLD ISO thread, will be trading away a bunch of stuff that might help. I'm pretty sure I have extra jewels of carnage and things of that nature. LLD would be much better in softcore anyways because then you don't lose your char/items when you die.

I play d2 for fun, and trading is one of the things that really make it go out for me. I was also talking about SC dueling...

[Ashmer Amadeus]

I'm thinking about starting over (ignore my first post, I must have been on crack!), do a full fresh start and giev away all my items. Somehow I just feel trading took the fun out of finding items. This time, however, I would find it much more appealing to start in HC mode, and this rule got me thinking.

So does it really mean I could not participate? I would really like to do some LLD but if not so then bummer :sad2:

HC to SC is frowned upon in all formats, not just PvP. Monkey boy isn't trying to make this harder then it should be, but as a forum, we frown on moving them from HC to SC.

{Edit} To help you CK, and probly others, I plan on making a LLD ISO thread, will be trading away a bunch of stuff that might help. I'm pretty sure I have extra jewels of carnage and things of that nature. LLD would be much better in softcore anyways because then you don't lose your char/items when you die.

[Paladine]

just seeing if you guys are still going, I have most the gear for my lld so far but I have to remake it so let me know. I have never MP in SP before besides with my bro so hit me up!

[zarfen]

Nice to see more people, the scene's awfully quiet though :undecided:

[Paladine]

well anytime you want to duel let me know

I almost have my guy finished and we will see if we can find a time we can both play - What is your lld?

[zarfen]

My LLD is a defiance smiter, I'm quite happy with him although it's quite useless vs some builds, like anything with auto-hit (read other smiters or GA zons) I'm very non-active these days tough :undecided:

[EasyGijs]

I just made my very first lvl 18 dueler. pretty weak character since I have allmost no charms (half my inventory is even empty<-- enough room for ears :P), but I really can't wait to do my first LLDuel.