What class (or skill tree) should D3 get rid of

[Bill Cosby]

Hey all-

as we have an awesome "what new char" would you like, how about a what class do you want to see taken out of the game? I think it would be cool to either suggest a class, or a specific skill tree (not specific skills, but the whole tree!) for a character to see your guys' thoughts.

I wouldnt mind if they get rid of the assasin class, or at least the martial arts tree. They could change the martial arts tree to something like "Assainations" and cool things like that (more like the rouge of WoW I guess :-P) but sneak kills and fast huge damage for being undectected before attacking would be cool.

I hope they dont get rid of the druid class but wouldnt be surprised if they do!

[mince pies]

Pala Combat. Keep the Paladin, just get rid of the Combat skill tree :tongue:

[Lyrs]

-Get rid of all the current classes and any class found in WoW.
-Come up with New classes (3)

Diablo doesn't need a huge selection of classes. What it does need is top quality storyline, action, and interactivity. By keeping the number of classes small, hopefully, blizzard can put more work into the skill affects.

[stillman]

I agree that D3 should get rid of all the classes in D2 and start fresh with all new heros. This is the tradition. Imagine if D2 had kept the same rouge, warrior and mage from D1, and also kept their spellbook method the same instead of renovating things to skill tree form. We would then have healer librarian barbs running around using fireball, etc. I mentioned in another thread that the characters from D2 are all played out. It's time for them to retire are be replaced with new ideas.
I realize that we all have gotten loads of enjoyment from D2, but D3 should be an opportunity to move on. I don't want to see any of the old characters, any skill trees, items with charges that are cast at some low level which become obsolete almost immediately, or any belts or potions. How does someone holding a weapon and shield manage to drink potions while being swarmed by demons anyway? Wouldn't some of the glass bottles get smashed with some hits? It's time to move on to healing spells, more effective armor, and magic items for regenerating life.
I would say that some of the D2 classes could remain as NPCs in the background of D3like the rouges in D2. I like the idea of having fewer classes with more attention put into each one, but they will likely have more than 7 classes in D3 if they stick to the pattern. People want a game similar to D2, but I want to see a completely different game with the dark atmosphere, variety of playing styles, and some of the better ideas from D2 incorperated.
Lets face it; barbarians are extremist pure american cheese. We have the Conan movies, a slew of others, and this class is basically the D&D huge guy with the big melee weapon. The LoD expansion characters look very out of place, especially in heavier armor, and many of their skills simply copy the spells/skills from other classes. How could they make a summoner druid tree when there is already a summoner necro tree? The paladin was nothing more than an attempt to be politically correct by having the hero knight in shining armor played by a black guy. The amazon was a good idea, but they made her into an all-american blond dream girl. Too many blacksmiths in D2 are female; again, nothing but political correctedness being barked down our throats. I would say the sorceress and necro were the best ideas, but the necro's armor looks like the ruber costumes used in the Batman & Robin movie. I just hope they get everything right in designing the D3 cast of heros.

[Mestre Crjspim]

It seems to me that you didn't even liked Diablo II. You chopped down every single class in the game, except the Sorceress... every single one of them had a flaw, in your opinion.

Barbarians - They are not any product fo American fantasy or idealism. Barabrians are products of Europe's tradition and warfare. In ancient languages barbarian meant "stranger" as foreigner. They were natural from Northern regions of Europe, like Denmark, Sweden or Norway. They were the most fierce fighters in the land, brutal force warriors. They were strong men and even kicked the *** of some Romans back in the days. Vikings are a sort of legacy of the so called "barbarians". So, they are way much older and historic than America... by the time they were fighting and making swords as heavy as horses, America was a rock with 2 or 3 trees and some indians.

Paladins - They are clearly as pure crystal a "allusion" to the Knight Templars. Again, an European history fact. All the "fanatic" following of their beliefs and the "Heaven law". The cross in the armor and much more features related to the Paladins background. This was a good homage to the most skilled warriors of all time. In part they are the first "special forces" men.

Amazons - they were fiersome female fighters of South America native Indians that lived in Matriarchal society. However, in ancient greek legends, Amazons were mentioned. One of the important facts of these particular females was their beauty only compared to their fighting prowess.

Assassins - These are to most ancient bandits that have ever existed. Even among kings and queens that conspired against each other. They are everywhere and in some medieval cities they were the ones in control.

Druids - They are a product of British folklore. Some other cultures have druids as well. In some of them, a Druid would be the spiritual leader of the people... a man, never a woman, that controled the powers of the elements and could comunicate with animals, specially cats, wolfs and some birds.


You're looknig to much beyond Diablo's lore, prefering to ad some policital message or connection to the game. I most definitly prefer to establish some resemblaces and influences of our history in the lore of the game, just to consolidate a storyline and give some veracity to the background.



Maybe a Healing spells skill tree or Healing skills skills tree would be a nice implementation. However, it would ultimately bring us to the Tank/DPS/Healer party. And the belt potions are part of the Diablo identity and gameplay. So I much rather stick to them to them then to swap to healing spells.

[stillman]

Thanks for your input and insight. I guess I do have a rather negative attitude toward many of the components of the game that seem rather cheesy to me. However, I would actually prefer to see some of this folklore or historical backgound showing through in the classes. For instance, I would prefer the amazon to be South American, but the designers (imo) felt pressured to hollywoodize her to add more selling value to the game.
I believe that there ARE political messages in the game. The designers were (imo) under pressure to have a non-white character in the game. The right thing to do was choose zon, but no, that would make her look less like the perfect american dream girl doll that she is. I agree with you in that the characters are based on historical men and women, but it seems these important connections to history and folklore got pushed aside. What I was saying about the barb, for instance, was that the designers seemed to have givin us the americanized barb that we've already seen in loads of other games/movies instead of the more historically acurate portrayal of the barb that you gave (which would have looked more original). I believe they chose movie man barb to add a comic book style macho hero to the game. Again, all politics to compete with games/entertainment medias out there. Wouldn't it be better if the barb was portrayed as a beserker norseman, who used to aim for the arms and legs and sometimes used mushrooms to boost performance on raids? I think this would have been the better choice than the barb we were given.
Of couse, the game can't be all reality/history based; there has to be some fantasy elemnets thrown in, but that is what the spells and some skills are for. The characters, to me, look like they're from Marvel comics.
I guess I'm very fond of originality. I find potions have been overused in games in general. I think some of the ideas for new characters in another thread (like alchemist, time mage, samurai) would be a breath of fresh air due to originality alone. I mean, how many games have alchemist heros compared to the 100's that have a big muscle man hero?
Finally, I'd like to point out that D1 got the classes right imo. The mage from the east and the look of the rogues were novel ideas for their time.

[Merick]

I struggle to understand the apparent assumption so many have that D3 will just be D2 with tweaked skills, items, classes, and storyline.

[Mestre Crjspim]

Thanks for your input and insight. I guess I do have a rather negative attitude toward many of the components of the game that seem rather cheesy to me. However, I would actually prefer to see some of this folklore or historical backgound showing through in the classes. For instance, I would prefer the amazon to be South American, but the designers (imo) felt pressured to hollywoodize her to add more selling value to the game.
I believe that there ARE political messages in the game. The designers were (imo) under pressure to have a non-white character in the game. The right thing to do was choose zon, but no, that would make her look less like the perfect american dream girl doll that she is. I agree with you in that the characters are based on historical men and women, but it seems these important connections to history and folklore got pushed aside. What I was saying about the barb, for instance, was that the designers seemed to have givin us the americanized barb that we've already seen in loads of other games/movies instead of the more historically acurate portrayal of the barb that you gave (which would have looked more original). I believe they chose movie man barb to add a comic book style macho hero to the game. Again, all politics to compete with games/entertainment medias out there. Wouldn't it be better if the barb was portrayed as a beserker norseman, who used to aim for the arms and legs and sometimes used mushrooms to boost performance on raids? I think this would have been the better choice than the barb we were given.
Of couse, the game can't be all reality/history based; there has to be some fantasy elemnets thrown in, but that is what the spells and some skills are for. The characters, to me, look like they're from Marvel comics.
I guess I'm very fond of originality. I find potions have been overused in games in general. I think some of the ideas for new characters in another thread (like alchemist, time mage, samurai) would be a breath of fresh air due to originality alone. I mean, how many games have alchemist heros compared to the 100's that have a big muscle man hero?
Finally, I'd like to point out that D1 got the classes right imo. The mage from the east and the look of the rogues were novel ideas for their time.

Got your point. But I stiil prefer the romantic side of it.

I just recalled, the mage in Diablo 1... wasn't he a black man? If so, do you in him another polictly correct message?

[tyranius]

That healing skill tree is a bad idea man.Potions are one of the main RPG game identities. The healing skill tree would be useless cuz you would heal yourself and not inflict any dmg, wich means you can't play solo. I dont think there are any political messages in the game. They just thought the pally would be better off black. The characters from d2 are pretty good overall. And what's the matter if the druid has a summon tree? His summon tree is very different from the necro's. I hope they create new classes too but I wouldn't mind if the pally could make his come back.

[Mestre Crjspim]

I believe that the Paladin will come back. They are deeply connected with the lore of Diablo, namely with the Zakarum.

[stillman]

I thought that the mage's race choice from D1 was indeed part of the attempt to be politically corect; however, they did it pefectly well. The mage was the mysterious man from the east, he was not your typical skinny old wizzard with the white beard, and he showed contrast to the other two classes. The warrior was your typical hero from other games, but I thought this was Ok so players don't think the game is too different. The rogue and mage showed enough originality in their design to make the game so great.
It's Ok to be politically correct in games, but I thought it was overdone in D2. It can also be a bit sloppy. Why not have an Asain hero charcater in the game? It would be perfect to have an Asain ninja/samurai in D3, but the main requirement is only to have a black person to fulfill the politically correct standpoint. I feel they just said, "well, one of these heros has to be black, the zon must stay snow white, so it should be the pally to show that we here at Blizzard believe that black people are just as rightous as white people. And, there's no way in hell we're depicting a black person as being savage or animalistic like a barbarian". I know, it all sounds crazy, but here in Canada, every poster I come across in University has to have 2 happy Africain-Canadian men, some white girls right beside them, an Asain, and a native girl sitting cross legged in the middle of them all, smiling radiently. I don't like being bombarded with all this anti-racism promotional stuff. Why can't the poster be two Italian-American students or w/e? Sometimes it just goes too far, imo, and we just want a game instead of a poster of Blizzard's workplace mission statement.
Tyranius, I think the summoner skill tree is bad when you get into situations with trading summon gcs or discussing summoner builds and we have to distinguish which class. They could have simply called it the conjuring tree. Then there's 'calling' from FF2. Also, I guess my main complaint was that the expansion was their chance for some great new ideas, and I find too many skills were copycats.
I have to agree with Merick above, just based on the pattern. D2 had all new characters, biomes instead of one large dungeon, and new skill system and storyline different from D1. We all got used to it and loved the game nonetheless.

[Bill Cosby]

Wasnt the Assasin Asian? Also, this is all speculation...we dont know what blizzard was thinking when they made these characters and we cant tell for sure if it was specifically to abolish the people who would say "its racist not to have a black paladin" in the game or if they just thought it fit.

[SilvusX]

to be honest, Skin COLOR does not matter.
I highly doubt blizzard made amazon blonde just so more people would buy the game. (Unless there are people do jerk off looking at zon, but that would be pretty sad, imo)

Let's not get into, oh blizzard didn't make xx character to xx skin color So its political incorrect or they are racists. Skin color and race should not affect the game at all. If you think they are racists for not putting XX race instead of XX race, then i would say you are racist yourself.

[AnimeCraze]

That healing skill tree is a bad idea man.Potions are one of the main RPG game identities. The healing skill tree would be useless cuz you would heal yourself and not inflict any dmg, wich means you can't play solo.I agree, unless that the healing tree is accessible to all chars.

[prion]

i've always thought some of the skill trees weren't well developed...

zon jav and spear....no one uses the physical side, lightning strike is basically the mele version of Lfury, there's no significant difference...and oh yeah... "In the dense jungles of her homeland the Amazon has learned how to fight with a giant freakin warpike."

assasin MA.....in the story she's not supposed to use magic but half of this stuff looks too much like magic to me

druid elemental......I actually like these, I think the skills are fun and different and all have a particular use....but it's always been a little bit stupid I mean hurricanes tornadoes and volcanoes are not that small

[tyranius]

dude a healing skill tree? wich skills would that have? hmm let me see... there's Healing Skill... then... what else? nothing. Healing skill tree = bad idea. Besides, you would die ALL the time having to use spells to heal. its much faster drinking a couple of pots. Imagine u fighting and your life going down then u gotta stop attacking to switch to healing skill and heal. Dude that would suck.
Imagine you want to make a build, but you would still have to spend some points in healing skill tree wich would also suck.
No skill tree in D3 plz.

[stillman]

Tyranius, I'm sure they could make the healing spells/skills work. There are all kinds of ideas: Healing spells, meditation (similar to regenerate life from D2), ESP/psychic sort of control over one's own blood loss (an idea from D&D, to prevent at least some of the damage), laying of hands, binding wounds (again from D&D to prevent blood loss), time travel to make it as though the injuries never happened, aging spells that age your chr and thus heals faster, eating to heal a bit, toughness (from Warhammer) that reduces damage you take in the first place, magic armor that heals your chr periodically, contortionist/shapechanger ability to temporarily convert another stat like str into life, etc. I admit, some of these are shrewed. Maybe each chr could have their own different healing technique, and a cleric chr could have an array of them. As for the healer/tank party exploit problem, I'm sure they could prevent certain exploits by having some downfall for the healing. Also, there doens't need to be a whole tree for healing.
I thought it was annoying when I had to go to town all the time for more potions, having to pick up potions, go to inventory, move potions to belt, etc. It consumes a lot of time. The gameplay seems to revolve around the belt too much imo. What if the healing spells could work the same as the potions in D2? It would just be a more realistic concept to have a fighter chanting a magic word to activate it rather than drinking something during an intense battle. You could pay for healing charges similar to paying for potions, without having to deal with the belt so often.

[prion]

i think one of the main reasons we dont see many clerics is because the holy bolt is not very likely to hit its intended target. It's not for lack of cleric guides, or people wanting to play clerics, or even people wanting to play WITH clerics. It just doesn't work that well in the current game.

[struikje]

I thought that the mage's race choice from D1 was indeed part of the attempt to be politically corect; however, they did it pefectly well. The mage was the mysterious man from the east, he was not your typical skinny old wizzard with the white beard, and he showed contrast to the other two classes. The warrior was your typical hero from other games, but I thought this was Ok so players don't think the game is too different. The rogue and mage showed enough originality in their design to make the game so great.
It's Ok to be politically correct in games, but I thought it was overdone in D2. It can also be a bit sloppy. Why not have an Asain hero charcater in the game? It would be perfect to have an Asain ninja/samurai in D3, but the main requirement is only to have a black person to fulfill the politically correct standpoint. I feel they just said, "well, one of these heros has to be black, the zon must stay snow white, so it should be the pally to show that we here at Blizzard believe that black people are just as rightous as white people. And, there's no way in hell we're depicting a black person as being savage or animalistic like a barbarian". I know, it all sounds crazy, but here in Canada, every poster I come across in University has to have 2 happy Africain-Canadian men, some white girls right beside them, an Asain, and a native girl sitting cross legged in the middle of them all, smiling radiently. I don't like being bombarded with all this anti-racism promotional stuff. Why can't the poster be two Italian-American students or w/e? Sometimes it just goes too far, imo, and we just want a game instead of a poster of Blizzard's workplace mission statement.
Tyranius, I think the summoner skill tree is bad when you get into situations with trading summon gcs or discussing summoner builds and we have to distinguish which class. They could have simply called it the conjuring tree. Then there's 'calling' from FF2. Also, I guess my main complaint was that the expansion was their chance for some great new ideas, and I find too many skills were copycats.
I have to agree with Merick above, just based on the pattern. D2 had all new characters, biomes instead of one large dungeon, and new skill system and storyline different from D1. We all got used to it and loved the game nonetheless.

You are searching for things that aren't there. And why would you care anyway?:D

Btw, would you really like ninjas and samurais in the game? While you are at it, why not add supersayans and aquaman aswell...

[Zeek]

Well the easiest to drop IMO is the paladin defensive aura tree. They are far from essential to the paladin.

You could just about drop the whole druid at this point. None of his trees are particularly strong IMO. Though I wish they were cause the character could be pretty cool.

The necro curse tree needs to be revamped. I've never heard of anyone really pumping any points into curses. They're all one point wonders with plus skills.

[Erwwwd]

As Diablo is just RPG-lite I think many of these classes will be back in some form or another.
Possible additions would be a bard, a priest and the assasin class being split in a poison based "assasin", a martial arts based "monk" and a "rogue" trapper.

If the characters have customizable features we would get rid of silly thoughts about PC-ness. (what is so wrong about the paladin being black? Diversity is ok. Isn't the sorceress arabian btw?)

[jasonmazzy]

U should be able to choose skin color and male/female except for race or gender specific characters (ex. amazon has to be a woman).

[Kiroptus]

Somehow... I wouldnt like too much customization. I mean... I always prefered a character with some personality and uniqueness than a character that I can customize its face, gender, skin, hair style, etc... Diablo isnt a game about a characters personality or moral choices, its good to have those options in a game like Mass Effect but Diablo's gameplay isnt about that at all.

For example: When the necromancer goes to the blood moor for the first time he says "All who opose me... beware" or when the assassin kills mephisto she says "That was Mephisto? He was no match for me". Those elements are much more rich than not having it, because after all why not give every character a bunch of personalities hints in their quotes instead of being silent? Because really... diablo isnt about giving a "personality" to your characters, its about making him/her stronger and gathering gear.

In HGL you can customize your character in many ways, but they are null and void of personality, there wasnt any soul in them while diablo2's characters always had a subtle (but notable) tone in their characterizations.

So I would rather have a very well-defined character in terms of visual and personality than a one with a null personality but with lots of visual options, for example, in team fortress 2 every class is a character in itself and you could almost guess how they would react to any kind of situation because they VERY well-developed. It makes them very vivid, I would much rather prefer them this way, as pre-defined characters and pre-defined visual because at least you could identify yourself with the character because diablo's gameplay isnt meant to create "personality" in the players' characters but to upgrade them through skills and gear.

So I think Diablo's action gameplay is much closer to something like Team fortress 2 than to something like Mass Effect. The RPG elements in Diablo just help the action and the killing, I think that heavy customization is important when other RPG elements like moral choices and personality are up to the players. Its not the case with Diablo. Here we are LEADING a character's action and not MAKING the character, not really BEING the character so I dont see why the characters can be well-defined and set as interesting and captivation ones and good and plausible visuals that fit their roles.

[Turbocannon]

I'd like to see 3-4 classes which can be trained in more different directions. More skill trees or more skills is what I mean.

[Omikron8]

remove teleport

seriously no teleport for anyone, regardless of items or if you're a caster class

[stillman]

Yes, teleport is a horrible thing in D2. I hope we never see it again. In fact, if they simply put a small casting delay on tele in D2, no one could tele to Baal without getting killed and baal bots would disappear. It would be harder to make lev 99 as chrs would have to run to the bosses and be able to deal with all the mosnters along the way.
Some people have argued that giving all chrs tele with enigma has increased the sales of the game by giving everyone what they want; however, I believe Blizzard has always pampered and spoiled players, for example by not patching rushing. All they would have to do is require characters to be within 10 levels of each other in order to be in the same party. The more they spoil us, the more the game is degraded.

I would also agree that there shouldn't be too much personalizing of chrs in D3. There was always something fun about just being able to pick a class, name the chr and go. I figgure the variety of killing styles was all the chr development we needed.

[Lyrs]

Or make teleport incredibly mana intensive (100+ mana per cast) and controllable on at higher levels. At lower levels, it should to be closer to the affect of Blink (which teleports you randomly).

Get rid of Conversion (Paladin).

[tyranius]

hahah guys D3 is not The Sims ok? No character customization.

And remove teleport... let's see... how about... NO?!?!

Are you out of your mind?!?! Teleport is FUNDAMENTAL for Mfing there would be no mfing so finding items would be such a burden nobody would even care doing it. Teleport is a must for any mfing character and they can't put it off.

[Lord Cooler]

I agree with Tyranius... No teleport?!? WTF?!? Without teleport almost no one would do MF man...
For the character customization, I think it would be kinda cool, but it doesn't really matter, what matters is that Blizzard don't screw up with the playability and give a little improving in the graphics(don't need to be an HL² or something like that).

[Erwwwd]

I agree with this no teleport idea, prevents the boring all sorceress/"casterclass in DIII" start of the battle.net season.

hahah guys D3 is not The Sims ok? No character customization.

And remove teleport... let's see... how about... NO?!?!

Are you out of your mind?!?! Teleport is FUNDAMENTAL for Mfing there would be no mfing so finding items would be such a burden nobody would even care doing it. Teleport is a must for any mfing character and they can't put it off.

The sims? Lots of RPGs allow you to change face/hair/body/gender etc.
Don't think this is a bad idea, and shouldn't be that hard to implement in a true 3d game(game should still have isometric view though)

Getting rid of teleport doesn't remove MF-ing. Mf-ing would be based more on clearing areas then running bosses, but it would still be mf-ing. Running the same monster over and over has always seemed a bit silly to me.

[Kiroptus]

I agree on the removal of teleport, it takes out a great sense of danger in the game and makes traveling through the scenarios way too fast (there is also the boot issue). And as I really wish to see D3 returns to the atmospheric/survival horror RPG stylish of Diablo 1 it certainly would please me to see it removed. I would like to see the enviroment to be stronger than your character and not the other way around.

And its possible to MF without it, every class has to make it without teleport except the sorceress. Enigma was added to cover the imbalance that teleport is. It was a quick band-aid fix for an imbalance.

The sims? Lots of RPGs allow you to change face/hair/body/gender etc.
Don't think this is a bad idea, and shouldn't be that hard to implement in a true 3d game(game should still have isometric view though)

Yeah but wouldnt the character end up too generic like that? What about their quotes and personality? It is hinted in every diablo game that the character has a set personality.

I just prefer to see a character with a good personality and a predefined visual than one with many custom options but void of any soul (like the ones in HGL).

[Bill Cosby]

I think one of the only reasons I still play D2 is because of teleport O_O. Seriously, that skill alone has kept the game fun because after playing it for literally 8 years I dont always wanted to spend 20 hours to get through the game when i start over again. I live for the fast paced action, the teleing to baals minions or nithalak for that exciting moment when i can say "YES I found X".

Also, I agree no customization.

Thats whats really interesting in our debates. Half the people want D3 to be like D2 and I think the other half want a totally new game and Idea.

[Erwwwd]

Yeah but wouldnt the character end up too generic like that? What about their quotes and personality? It is hinted in every diablo game that the character has a set personality.

I just prefer to see a character with a good personality and a predefined visual than one with many custom options but void of any soul (like the ones in HGL).

You could still have the different personalities within the classes. You can have customization within limits. At least gender should be an option. This would lead to 2 sets of speech sounds for the characters, 1 male 1 female for every character, but both would still have personality.

[tyranius]

This customization thing is lame. Why would you even care having a cute char?? it doesnt GOD DA** MATTER!! What matters is your abilities to kill and nothing else! Are ya gonna stop and look at someone's char and jerk off? NO. So no customization!!

Clearing areas would be a burden so there would be no MFing and therefore blizzard would have to put items easier to get wich would kill one of the characteristics of d2. One of the reasons that make d2 better than WoW is because, bosses from wow have certain drops... they have a list of about 10 items they can drop and that's it. But killing diablo or baal in d2 you never know what you're gonna get and that ROCKS. I dont know about you but I dont have a lot of fun in clearing areas or killing bosses... for me, finding items is fun not killing bosses. That's why teleport is a MUST and should NEVER EVER be taken out.

[Stevomoo]

Clearing areas would be a burden so there would be no MFing and therefore blizzard would have to put items easier to get wich would kill one of the characteristics of d2. One of the reasons that make d2 better than WoW is because, bosses from wow have certain drops... they have a list of about 10 items they can drop and that's it. But killing diablo or baal in d2 you never know what you're gonna get and that ROCKS. I dont know about you but I dont have a lot of fun in clearing areas or killing bosses... for me, finding items is fun not killing bosses. That's why teleport is a MUST and should NEVER EVER be taken out.

so you are saying that without tele people wont want to get any decent items?? people will always mf even if it takes 30 mins to do 1 run, if you want items you do it its that simple.

[prion]

walking is for muggles; everyone wants teleport.

personally I think everyone who is a magic user whould be able to get teleport.

now if they want to set some kind of limits on it i.e. you have to use a particular kind of wand or totem, or cast delays, or whatever that would be fine.

If some monsters can have teleport then some humans should have teleport also.

[Cheeseflys]

Well, if they completely erase all the current things... They would just change the names of all the classes.... Like Barbarian to Knight, Sorceress to Mage/Witch Amazon to Ranger, but they would keep the un-changables like the Necromancer... So basically you will be getting the same classes with different names and appearences...

But, I do think a Gender system is needed, I don't feel right being forced into a Female character when that class can work with both genders...

[Lyrs]

I don't care so much about the gender thing. So what if I'm playing a male or female class? I'm choosing the character for the skillset/bonuses, not because I have some issue with the character's gender.

@prion
I can see your point; however, maybe if they diversify it and made it different for each class, it'd work.

[Erwwwd]

If some monsters can have teleport then some humans should have teleport also.

The monsters have some sort of "Blink". I'm ok with Blink, just not teleport. It would really make balancing the characters much much easier.

[tyranius]

Stevomoo, ok people would do 30min runs. But what if the chances to drop items are the same from d2? I mean... if they are you will take more than 20 runs to get a good item and a run takin 30 mins would kill you. So basically you'd be doing runs that take an eternity to end only to find absolutely nothing. That's non sense. The game being that slow I think lots of people would abandon it seriously. We need teleport what's the problem with that anyway? I dont see whats the matter in having baal bots for example cuz that's where I lvl up without them it would be much much harder lvling to 90. Ok those selling bots are annoying but they have nothing to do with teleport. And rushing is much better than go through the entire game. By the time you get to hell you'll be tired of the game and leave it. Teleport is the best skill IMO and nothing you guys say will change that.

[Bioburg]

I agree that teleport is one of the best things of DII. It's one of the reasons I always return to DII after having tried Mythos, HGL and Guild Wars. I got fed up by those endless walks. It just takes to much time to improve and find some nice gear ^^.

I really like my assassin, baba, necro, pala, sorc & dudu with teleport. Even my amazon carries a teleport amulet to avoid I have to walk back through those tunnels i just cleared but just tele in some action area again :grin:

I guess it depends on how much time you can spend on playing and I just don't have that much time, so when i play I want some action.

And, come on, a 2005 FCR baba is fun :jig:

About the deleting/replace skill trees: I don't have much complaints about the current skill trees, since I always play hybrids so I usually use most skill trees on a character and to me all classes can be very funny.

I'm just curious what they will come up with, I'll see it from there.
Not really got time to think about what ideas they "might" be having ;)

[Bill Cosby]

I concur...teleport has to be one of the biggest reasons people still play Diablo 2 today. If you get into a MF funk, you would quit when it would take 20 min to run 1 meph run and if you died 3 times from a stygian roll etc...it would be HELL. Teleport is the best skill in all of Diablo 2 and has to be the most used skill in the entire game in terms of clicks.

Someone should make a poll, I am sure the teleport haters are in the minority

[Omikron8]

if they made the monster drop rates for rares/sets/uniques (or whatever similar items exist in D3) actually DECENT then this issue of having "to go through all the enemies on the way to the boss" could actually be rewarding instead of tedious

if D2 has one obvious flaw it's that the drop rates for items above magical (blue) quality for regular MONSTERS are just pathetic even for areas like worldstone keep or the pit at 8 players and tons of magic find equipment

the more you play the more you realize that people would simply not get anything done in hell difficulty (they would die too often and do pathetic damage) without boss running

play a game like titan quest in comparison and boss running is pointless as you can get frequent legendary/epic drops in latter difficulties by just clearing areas, and "magic find" equipment does not exist

[Kiroptus]

Everyone loves teleport now because any class can have it but when only the sorceress had it you were pretty much forced to create one if you wanted quick MFing it was quite lame. So if teleport is back enigmas has to come back too? Cmon.

Tele just pretty much skips the whole game, if it were to return it should come with a heavy casting delay that would get lower as you lvl up the skill (because lets not forget that its still a 1-point skill wonder!).

[raishi]

ninja and samurai come to mind...

[trashX]

Thanks for your input and insight. I guess I do have a rather negative attitude toward many of the components of the game that seem rather cheesy to me. However, I would actually prefer to see some of this folklore or historical backgound showing through in the classes. For instance, I would prefer the amazon to be South American, but the designers (imo) felt pressured to hollywoodize her to add more selling value to the game.
I believe that there ARE political messages in the game. The designers were (imo) under pressure to have a non-white character in the game. The right thing to do was choose zon, but no, that would make her look less like the perfect AMERICAN dream girl doll that she is. I agree with you in that the characters are based on historical men and women, but it seems these important connections to history and folklore got pushed aside. What I was saying about the barb, for instance, was that the designers seemed to have givin us the AMERICANized barb that we've already seen in loads of other games/movies instead of the more historically acurate portrayal of the barb that you gave (which would have looked more original). I believe they chose movie man barb to add a comic book style macho hero to the game. Again, all politics to compete with games/entertainment medias out there. Wouldn't it be better if the barb was portrayed as a beserker norseman, who used to aim for the arms and legs and sometimes used mushrooms to boost performance on raids? I think this would have been the better choice than the barb we were given.
Of couse, the game can't be all reality/history based; there has to be some fantasy elemnets thrown in, but that is what the spells and some skills are for. The characters, to me, look like they're from Marvel comics.
I guess I'm very fond of originality. I find potions have been overused in games in general. I think some of the ideas for new characters in another thread (like alchemist, time mage, samurai) would be a breath of fresh air due to originality alone. I mean, how many games have alchemist heros compared to the 100's that have a big muscle man hero?
Finally, I'd like to point out that D1 got the classes right imo. The mage from the east and the look of the rogues were novel ideas for their time.

really man, what does america have to do with that? at least say hollywood

[robzombiesslave]

Everyone loves teleport now because any class can have it but when only the sorceress had it you were pretty much forced to create one if you wanted quick MFing it was quite lame. So if teleport is back enigmas has to come back too? Cmon.

Tele just pretty much skips the whole game, if it were to return it should come with a heavy casting delay that would get lower as you lvl up the skill (because lets not forget that its still a 1-point skill wonder!).

Man its been a while but if I remember correctly, in diablo 1 teleporting sent you to a random spot on the screen. Maybe instead of teleporting randomly like in diablo 1 and instead of teleporting exactly where you click in diablo II, in diablo III the skill will teleport you randomly into a large radius wherever you click. As you put skills into teleport it makes the radius smaller per level.

[Mythic]

Political correctness guy: You are reaching for something to be offended by.

I agree with Tyranius... No teleport?!? WTF?!? Without teleport almost no one would do MF man...


That's sort of the point. You're making the assumption that the game would work just like Diablo 2 does.

I see that all over this forum. "That would never work because in Diablo 2. . . " These are not discussions of rule changes within D2, but discussions of what kind of game D3 will/should be.

You know why all the monsters in Diablo 2 are so ridiculously tough? Because you can just teleport past them.

Man its been a while but if I remember correctly, in diablo 1 teleporting sent you to a random spot on the screen. Maybe instead of teleporting randomly like in diablo 1 and instead of teleporting exactly where you click in diablo II, in diablo III the skill will teleport you randomly into a large radius wherever you click. As you put skills into teleport it makes the radius smaller per level.

Phasing teleported you randomly. Teleport let you teleport.

[raishi]

remove the skill...yeah! what a shame actually having to play the game...

[tyranius]

Political correctness guy: You are reaching for something to be offended by.



That's sort of the point. You're making the assumption that the game would work just like Diablo 2 does.

I see that all over this forum. "That would never work because in Diablo 2. . . " These are not discussions of rule changes within D2, but discussions of what kind of game D3 will/should be.

You know why all the monsters in Diablo 2 are so ridiculously tough? Because you can just teleport past them.



Phasing teleported you randomly. Teleport let you teleport.

I see your point but let's face the truth. Do we really want D3 to be that different from D2? I really mean it guys, D2 has something, I don't know what it is but there's something wich makes it unique from any of the hundreds of games out there. It seems really hard to me for D3 to be better than D2. If it is... it's gonna be the greatest game of all time. But meanwhile I can't see how they're gonna make this game better.

[Kiroptus]

I see your point but let's face the truth. Do we really want D3 to be that different from D2? I really mean it guys, D2 has something, I don't know what it is but there's something wich makes it unique from any of the hundreds of games out there. It seems really hard to me for D3 to be better than D2. If it is... it's gonna be the greatest game of all time. But meanwhile I can't see how they're gonna make this game better.

Certainly D2 has something for it that makes it entertaining and longlasting. But its not teleport because enigma isnt even that old considering Diablo2's life.

The "something" that diablo has lies on the cool skills, diferent class styles and sub-classes, fast-paced combat, great monsters and overall lack of burocracy that plagues some RPGs. Its just simple and fun. Thats the formula. Being able to skip everything until the boss drops isnt the "something". If Diablo 3 is well-refined and well-designed, we just wont miss teleport.

I repeat: Enigma was a band-aid fix to teleport. The addition of enigma alone showed how much of an overpowering skill teleport was and how unfair it was to limit such mobility to just one class.

The make "enigma" not happening again is simple: Just design the game without teleporting. Blink alike skills like leap and dragon flight are ok, but teleport has way too much of an skipping power.

[Mythic]

I see your point but let's face the truth. Do we really want D3 to be that different from D2? I really mean it guys, D2 has something, I don't know what it is but there's something wich makes it unique from any of the hundreds of games out there. It seems really hard to me for D3 to be better than D2. If it is... it's gonna be the greatest game of all time. But meanwhile I can't see how they're gonna make this game better.

I dunno. I said the same thing about Diablo, and look where Diablo 2 ended up.

I don't see Diablo going the MMO route, or at least not the traditional Everquest/WoW style. So while I think we're going to have the same "point and click until enemies die" gameplay, I don't think it's very productive to assume we're going to have the same classes and skills and skill trees. That kind of discussion is more relevant to Diablo 2 patches.

[tyranius]

Ok, now I ask. You teleport haters who play d2? How do you MF? If you hate teleport that bad then I have to ask this question. U guys mf clearing areas right? Without teleporting or rushing. Yea right.

[Kiroptus]

Ok, now I ask. You teleport haters who play d2? How do you MF? If you hate teleport that bad then I have to ask this question. U guys mf clearing areas right? Without teleporting or rushing. Yea right.

Of course we all abuse it but anyone with just a little bit of insight realizes how overpowered teleport is and how it would be more interesting to have the game designed without it.

The addition of enigma just proved how broken teleport was, Blizzard just didnt want to waste time to fix it so they just gave teleport to everyone. So I dont think its unlikely that teleport will be seriously reworked (or even removed) in D3.

[Dirkw]

This thread isn't about how teleport works in D2. If anything it'd be about how teleport might work in d3.

The reason teleport stands out so much in d2 is it's hard for characters without tp to match the speed and comfort of those chararacters with tp. This is mainly caused by a low base movement speed and by the way the maps are laid out. Many obstacles, many doors, many narrow path ways... It all stalls the player considerably.
If the game's environments were more open, and character movement speed was relatively high, teleport wouldn't be as relatively strong as it is now.

There are ofcourse lots of ways to go about redoing this, but thinking in terms of the yes or no diablo2 teleport discussion is the first thing you should stray away from.


Of course we all abuse it but anyone with just a little bit of insight realizes how overpowered teleport is and how it would be more interesting to have the game designed without it.

Also, and again, anyone with just a little bit of insight realizes how irrelevant it actually is to talk about diablo2's teleport in relation to d3.

[mince pies]

Personally I think people that think it's racist to not include a black person into a game are pathetic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a racist, far from it, but stuff like that is political correctness gone mad. I doubt that there would be any black people that would find it racist if there were no black characters in DIII.

[captmushroom]

I like the Pally coming back in D3. I'd really like an Assassin as well... since there will always be bad little mages around. I'd imagine the Diablo World in a time of chaotic mess... demons and hellspawns, thieves and murderers, cats and dogs living together. The Evil brothers are resurrected, infused with powers of the now shattered world stone, and are set free to wreak unspeakable havok amongst humanity and the Heavens alike.... AND... who best to lead the evil cause... TYREAL of course! He who destroyed the world stone.