Identify, do we really need it?

[Kiroptus]

Certainly one of the things that I find cumbersome in hack and slashes is identify.

Identification of magic items was born in D&D, where magic items were rare and the lore attribute could sometimes identify it instantly (not really sure about that) but the problem is, in a hack and slash game so much magic items drop and so much of it is supposed to be sold anyway, it just annoys me to waste more and more clicks.

I do really think its an outdated mechanic that just doesnt fit hack and slash, certainly it has its place on RPGs like Baldur Gate but in Diablo, I thought it was there just as an adopted feature to make it look more Rpg-ish but neer really fit its mechanics.

If Identify was removed, the item could just drop blue if it was magic and when picked up, it auto-identify itself.

Is anyone so in love and thrilled with the extra clicks that the identifaction process gives to us that they would lament the demise of this fantastic procedure?

And cmon people, Cain is really old now, he should retire as an identificator already.

[prion]

huh.

i guess there is only a point to "identify" if an item would have some kind of hidden mods that you need to take to a particular NPC to ID but otherwise you could use it normally.

aaaaaand there would have to be cursed items...

cos really, if you pick up a Jagged sword it should be pretty obvious...but maybe you have to hit something with it to learn that it has lightning damage

[Kiroptus]

Yeah, in one way or another, identify "unlocks" the mods in the item but its so ridiculously cheap(75 gold? Thats nothing at all) that it might as well be auto-identified. And I fail to see how infinite auto-identification would be unbalanced in a hack and slash. Plus you cant even equip unindentified items, it would be interesting if you could use an unindentified item and it turns out to be cursed, so it binds to your character and you need to pay an NPC to remove it. But even so its just that, "interesting", because in the end it would be just something to annoy you.

[Mythic]

I would be really happy if they did away with identify. I like the idea of making it only necessary for certain quest items, like when Cain tells you about The Golden Bird.

[Lyrs]

I like the Quest idea. Here's why:
Every Quest item is Unique. Every Unique item should have a story. This is where ID comes in. If ID can reveal to us the story of the item, we not only gain knowledge of what the weapon's stats, perks, etc. but we also gain knowledge and exposure to the world of Sanctuary. This expands the world and adds to the story. The depth, the detail, and the danger inspired by these stories is one of the best things in D1 and D2. More of it is always worthwhile and the returns on player experience is what creates hardcore fans.

Could you imagine just how awesome it would be to listen to Cain tell the story of Arkaine's Valor or the birth and creation of the Windforce Hydra Bow? Every unique item in the game has a story, but we very rarely hear the story behind it, except Azurewrath and a few others and these are not exacting in game narrations either.

ID should reveal these stories (you'll need to use a scroll to read the story each time). Also, look, if Fallout1/2 can use the "look" option to describe everything in the world to the player, surely Diablo 3 can do something like that. You could use an ID scroll to examine rocks, plants, doors, chests, etc. ID scrolls should give you more information about the world and perhaps even warn you to traps.

Imagine something like this: you buy a keg of beer from the tavern and you decide to ID it for lolz. However, the ID identifies a poison in the keg. A new Quest! Find the poisoner!

Or... you ID a tree. It turns out there's a squirrel nest up there. You search the nest and find some loot including a pretty and expensive looking trinklet. A new Quest! Find out who lost it!

Etc.

[aishilee]

Its good for items that varies in stats when identified.

so you could trade off people who likes to gamble.

[Kornkills]

Some people prefer to keep uniques unidentified for trading. Or just a *minor* gold sink if you never save Cain.

[Arkardo]

Well, having to ID it adds to the suspense ("will this FINALLY be a Stone of Jordan?"), but I suppose it has indeed outlived it's purpose.

What's weird about having to ID an item, it that everyone now knows what the item is. I mean, let's say you ID a unique ring and it turns about to be a Manald's Heal. You throw it on the ground and leave the game. Then someone else enters the game and picks it up. How come HE doesn't have to ID it?

Or some greasy necromancer wants to trade his Stone of Jordan for a sorceress' Arm of King Leoric (yeah, just an example). How does the sorceress know whether to trust the necromancer and the ring is indeed a Stone of Jordan?

Could be interesting if ID-ing would only apply to the person who ID'd it. I wonder how that would change the game?

[Hrus]

ID is not necessary imho. I am lazy, and I don't like to pickup and ID each blue Monarch or ring. It's much easier in most of the other games like Titan quest, where you see what trash dropped immediatly on the gorund.

[The Italian Oak]

Yea but it's a surprise factor. Wondering what you got. If you're cheap just get Cain, or pick up throwing knives and sell for 480 gold and get the book

[Hrus]

surprise factor? Like when blue ring from hell Baal drops, my thoughts are - "OK this is probably another +1 life ring". And after I ID it. "OK, I was wrong, it's +1light radius ring, why do I even bother?"

[The Italian Oak]

Yeah I see what you're saying. It is a pain, espc when your inventory is full and you're wondering if you should throw up a TP or just click some more. Too bad it just didn't identify itself when you picked it up

[Ilikestuff]

so next are we going to be saying "lets have away with all the mouse clicking?"

"i'm too lazy to bother clicking my mouse. blizz should get rid of that, and allow you to choose a char, and then that char can play the game without any input from me"

if you dont like id'ing stuff, dont pick it up, and dont id it. its that simple :D

maybe youre all tired of lvling too? maybe blizz should introduce a monster in each act that gives you enough exp to bump you 10 lvls?!

if you dont like the game, play something else. its hardly a huge problem having to id an item.

[Kiroptus]

so next are we going to be saying "lets have away with all the mouse clicking?"

"i'm too lazy to bother clicking my mouse. blizz should get rid of that, and allow you to choose a char, and then that char can play the game without any input from me"

if you dont like id'ing stuff, dont pick it up, and dont id it. its that simple :D

maybe youre all tired of lvling too? maybe blizz should introduce a monster in each act that gives you enough exp to bump you 10 lvls?!

if you dont like the game, play something else. its hardly a huge problem having to id an item.

Thats a lot of nonsense there :P If a mechanic is serving no purpose anymore, just remove it already. It has nothing to do with anything that you posted there.

[Ilikestuff]

Thats a lot of nonsense there :P If a mechanic is serving no purpose anymore, just remove it already. It has nothing to do with anything that you posted there.

it does serve a purpose. . .

you can trade unid'd items for a higher trade value.

and, i know this might be painful for you guys, but you have to make a bit of effort to see what item dropped. i think too many of you are too lazy to even game properly. you want rushes, you want the best items from dupes, and now you dont want the so called hassle of id'ing items

i cannot believe so many of you pi$$ and moan about id'ing items. tell me then, whats the point in tp's? whats the point in gold? whats the point in npc's? why not just have a dialogue appear after each quest, telling you where to go next?



like i said, if its too much of a hassle to id an item, leave it where it is, and dont id it. problem solved. alternatively, take a hammer, and swing it ala whirlwind at your pc, then get a friend to do the same to your face :D

[Kiroptus]

it does serve a purpose. . .

you can trade unid'd items for a higher trade value.

Which items? And I really want to meet those people in-game, in every trade that I found noone cared if it was identified or not. In fact they demanded it to be identified because it could have bad stats and I never found anyone who was up to gamble like that.

Or you think that someone would trade an unid ring? That could have been found on normal Andy. Noone is that stupid.

This whole thing of "higher trading values" isnt even as huge as you make it up to be, few people actually cared about trading non-identified items anyway.


and, i know this might be painful for you guys, but you have to make a bit of effort to see what item dropped. i think too many of you are too lazy to even game properly. you want rushes, you want the best items from dupes, and now you dont want the so called hassle of id'ing items

WoW, thats a bit of a stretch here to say that people who say that identify is outdated are the same type of person who wants rushes and dupes, and just to defend such an outdated mechanic.

i cannot believe so many of you pi$$ and moan about id'ing items. tell me then, whats the point in tp's? whats the point in gold? whats the point in npc's? why not just have a dialogue appear after each quest, telling you where to go next?

What has that to do with anything?


like i said, if its too much of a hassle to id an item, leave it where it is, and dont id it. problem solved. alternatively, take a hammer, and swing it ala whirlwind at your pc, then get a friend to do the same to your face

Your mental age surprises me, didnt you know that diablo rated M? :D

[Coldsmoke]

you can sell mass unid rings/amus on jsp. witch will give you on average more profit than iding them.
Also some items like eth titans can be sold for more unid on average.
and how about unid annis/torches?

And it just rules to id an item and see ti has perf stats:P


But I think they should auto id blue items, because they just drop too much.

[tuxor]

I honestly don't understand why you're trying to get Identify taken out. It isn't even remotely hard to talk to Cain and say "Identify All Items" or carry a tome around. Not to mention there is a respectable market for Unid. high-tier items like Fathom's, CoA's, etc. Also, having to identify adds more suspense to the game, and makes it so you can't just throw out every bit of junk you come across. The inventory is bigger than 8 slots for a reason.

[Dorfoumous]

I miss the idenification spell.

[Kiroptus]

I honestly don't understand why you're trying to get Identify taken out. It isn't even remotely hard to talk to Cain and say "Identify All Items" or carry a tome around. Not to mention there is a respectable market for Unid. high-tier items like Fathom's, CoA's, etc. Also, having to identify adds more suspense to the game, and makes it so you can't just throw out every bit of junk you come across. The inventory is bigger than 8 slots for a reason.

I hardly call a few excentric players who like to trade/gamble unid items a "respectable" market.

And, more suspense? Where? For that magic ring that adds +18 ar or maybe one light radius? Uniques? You pretty much already know all of those anyway. And with rings and ammys, no one is stupid enough to trade for unid unique rings and ammies.

[Coldsmoke]

Well, this game includes a lot of "gambling' and odds. And I know that the feeling of gambling is the best just before you know if you win or loose.
So with Diablo you get 2 times the exitement. 1 time when you you kill Meph for example and hope for a good unique. And 1 more time for iding it and hope for that unique ring to turn into a soj.

There's a reason people still play this game now. And it has a lot to with the feeling of getting lucky with a drop and good stat roll.

[raishi]

I like having it though i think a sorc should be able to id them like a sin can unlock things...

[stillman]

Ah, Mr. Ilikestuff, we've had our little scuffles before, haven't we? My Limited Uniques idea and a few others for sure. But on this thread, I actually agree with you that people are too lazy and we shouldn't reward them, or look what happens with enigmas taking over. On the other hand, Kiroptus is right because you can really tell Blizzard wanted id to be a big part of the game, and it turns out to be mainly an obsolete waste of time. After all, anyone can carry 20 id scrolls in a tomb.
In D1, there were some fools items that only did bad things to your chr, so id was valuable then. Maybe they just forgot about this factor when making D2, so id really is just a waste of clicks.
Tuxor, you say it isn't much work at all to id things, but I think the real problem is that over hundreds of hours of playing, it really adds up givin the number of drops. I feel like we are having to do far too much administrative activities in the long run.
Coldsmoke, I don't think your arguement about jsp values on unid items should count here because jsp was not part of the original D2 programming--jsp is an outsider and I would even consider jsp use as a borderline cheat tactic, even though many people use it.

I hope D3 uses my idea and gets rid of town portaling. That way, iding on the battlefield would be REALLY important. It would save players from having to run all the way back to town to id things.

[Hrus]

so next are we going to be saying "lets have away with all the mouse clicking?"

"i'm too lazy to bother clicking my mouse. blizz should get rid of that, and allow you to choose a char, and then that char can play the game without any input from me"

if you dont like id'ing stuff, dont pick it up, and dont id it. its that simple :D

maybe youre all tired of lvling too? maybe blizz should introduce a monster in each act that gives you enough exp to bump you 10 lvls?!

if you dont like the game, play something else. its hardly a huge problem having to id an item.
I like playing the game, especially fighting the monsters. I don't like those parts when I HAVE to do something else - like having a trip each few minutes to identify the items or repair weapon or something like that. I have played Titan quest and I really enjoyed the fact I could leave all those junk items on the ground.

and, i know this might be painful for you guys, but you have to make a bit of effort to see what item dropped. i think too many of you are too lazy to even game properly. you want rushes, you want the best items from dupes, and now you dont want the so called hassle of id'ing items
On the contrary most people having dupes (and/or wealth) don't have a problem with IDing. Why should they even bother with picking those charms up when they can easily trade for duped 3/20/20 or whatever. Now imagine you play untwinked and you should ID all dropped blue and yellow item to see if it's not better than the one you currently use. I think that you should play an untwinked character first, then return and tell us if you think that IDing is so great.

[korialstraz]

I think that you should play an untwinked character first, then return and tell us if you think that IDing is so great.

I know it's not directed at me, but I can't help but make a reply.

I have played untwinked quite a bit back in the days, and the thrill of finding an unid item that could beat what you use is really great imo. You pick it up, id it and find out if it's better or not. If it's not better then, oh well what did you loose? A few seconds and a scroll, and if it is better it just adds to the excitement :thumbsup:

[Kiroptus]

I know it's not directed at me, but I can't help but make a reply.

I have played untwinked quite a bit back in the days, and the thrill of finding an unid item that could beat what you use is really great imo. You pick it up, id it and find out if it's better or not. If it's not better then, oh well what did you loose? A few seconds and a scroll, and if it is better it just adds to the excitement :thumbsup:

I am sorry but I really wish I could understand all this "excitement" that identification provides.

I mean... wooo... thrilling...

[aishilee]

lol. you obviously don't do trading don't you?

[Dirkw]

Sooo.. What's the next thing going to be? It will be too much effort to have to take a look at the item in your inventory and you want some voiceover to shout "CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE JUST FOUND A BUL KATHOS RING MAN"?

[Ilikestuff]

I think that you should play an untwinked character first, then return and tell us if you think that IDing is so great.


thanks for your assumption, but maybe you would like a few facts to wash that down?

MY lvl 65 ranger is untwinked, and i love finding an item and hoping it is better than that what i currently use.

people mention "i like playing the game but i dont like doing things i dont have to"

so. . . you use maphack because you dont like having to search for the stairs to durance lvl 3? you'd rather know exactly where it is so you dont waste precious time?

if the answer is yes, please excuse me one moment while i get a stick and wipe you from the bottom of my shoe.

if no, then please explain why id'ing an item is more time consuming than searching a dungeon?

and you dont like the idea of durability? so i guess you dont like the idea of amazons having limited amounts of arrows? how about chars needing mana potions? or chars needing health potions? should these also be corrected to fit your lazy playing style? so you dont have to use a tp to go to town, you can just hack and slash for hours on end?

heres a tip, play single player, use all the third party prgrams you like, bump your life and mana upto 8000, create an auto id program.

best advice of all though. . . if your time is so precious to you, uninstall D2 and spend your time more wisely.

[Ilikestuff]

Coldsmoke, I don't think your arguement about jsp values on unid items should count here because jsp was not part of the original D2 programming--jsp is an outsider and I would even consider jsp use as a borderline cheat tactic, even though many people use it.

I hope D3 uses my idea and gets rid of town portaling. That way, iding on the battlefield would be REALLY important. It would save players from having to run all the way back to town to id things.

i agree with you here, using trade sites isnt playing the game how it was intended, and i would love for it not to exist.

and the "no tp idea is great". maybe you could stumble across a merchant travelling between towns, and trade/id etc with him. but only if there is one and if you find him. otherwise you either have to find an id scroll, or wait until you reach a city.

Lore skill would be useful also, and maybe id monster, so you can see what vulnerablities/strengths a monster has. eg. vulnerable to fire, strong melee etc

[Planktonboy]

Maybe there could just be a generic id spell, ID scrolls are only really an issue for very young characters anyway. Anyway, there are a couple af aruments in favor of IDing that haven'r really been metioned yet, could you imagine if every magic item that dropped had it's full name written out, it would be truly absurd, you could press alt and you'd be greeted by a screen filling explosion of text. Also, IDing rewards players that take the effort to free up a bit of inventory space and ID anything that may be valuable. This really helps balance the economy in favour of the poorer players who don't have 9 skillers in their inventory.

[tyranius]

thanks for your assumption, but maybe you would like a few facts to wash that down?

MY lvl 65 ranger is untwinked, and i love finding an item and hoping it is better than that what i currently use.

people mention "i like playing the game but i dont like doing things i dont have to"

so. . . you use maphack because you dont like having to search for the stairs to durance lvl 3? you'd rather know exactly where it is so you dont waste precious time?

if the answer is yes, please excuse me one moment while i get a stick and wipe you from the bottom of my shoe.

if no, then please explain why id'ing an item is more time consuming than searching a dungeon?

and you dont like the idea of durability? so i guess you dont like the idea of amazons having limited amounts of arrows? how about chars needing mana potions? or chars needing health potions? should these also be corrected to fit your lazy playing style? so you dont have to use a tp to go to town, you can just hack and slash for hours on end?

heres a tip, play single player, use all the third party prgrams you like, bump your life and mana upto 8000, create an auto id program.

best advice of all though. . . if your time is so precious to you, uninstall D2 and spend your time more wisely.

Dude chill out. You talk like you're the god on earth. Calm down and start showing some respect. The way you speak really annoys me because you say things like your better than anyone else here. I think IDing items a hassle too for a reason. What about the time you have to play the game? It really annoys me to have to make a TP and talk to cain to ID the item. When I play D2 I'm looking for some action and having to stop attacking to go back to town is lame. Whats the big deal you have a unid item then you say "what is it gonna be" or "what are the stats". I dont see where this is exciting or fun. You could have the same feeling seeing the item on the ground and picking it up and wondering while you open your inventory, what are the stats. IDing is something really useless and time taking that it should be taken out.

[trashX]

ID does serve a purpose.... its so you cant just pick every item up and then if it sucks just throw it down again, if your inventorys full it makes you gamble on what you should keep and what not OR you get rid of the gamble and buy ID scrolls, so gamble with items for free and maybe lose a good item or just pay to be sure.
this is, for bnet players, a bit unneeded since we are living in the day of OMFG GODLY 111!!!1! equip, and magic items rarely spawn things better than a unique or a RW. But you should look at it from the point of a single player player
Hope you see what im trying to get at xD

[Thyiad]

<obnoxious rant removed>

May I introduce you to the person to whom that rant was directed?

Hrus was the Single Player Moderator of this Forum for nearly two years.

That means:
1) Be polite as you should be *always*
2) He isn't using any third party cheat programs and where do you get off making the assumption he does?
3) Single Player isn't a collection of cheats. On this forum we pride ourselves on our legitimacy and if you stuck your head in the SPF, you'd know that
4) There's a lot of difference playing twinked and single pass untwinked.
5) Be polite in case you missed that the first time.

For future reference, not everyone's first language is English and it's wise to check people's post histories before assuming they're a 12 year old kid who cheats.

Any questions, you may PM me. Politely.

PS. Don't double post; that's spam. Use the edit function for up to one hour and the multiple quote function.

[Ilikestuff]

May I introduce you to the person to whom that rant was directed?

Hrus was the Single Player Moderator of this Forum for nearly two years.

That means:
1) Be polite as you should be *always*
2) He isn't using any third party cheat programs and where do you get off making the assumption he does?
3) Single Player isn't a collection of cheats. On this forum we pride ourselves on our legitimacy and if you stuck your head in the SPF, you'd know that
4) There's a lot of difference playing twinked and single pass untwinked.
5) Be polite in case you missed that the first time.

For future reference, not everyone's first language is English and it's wise to check people's post histories before assuming they're a 12 year old kid who cheats.

Any questions, you may PM me. Politely.

PS. Don't double post; that's spam. Use the edit function for up to one hour and the multiple quote function.

with all due respect, maybe you should read my post again, then realise the mistakes you've made.

firstly, i never accused him of using third party programs. i offered that as a suggestion for him.

secondly, it really doesnt matter if he was a mod or not, i'll reply to him how i would reply to anyone with his response. as it should be *always*

thirdly, i dont recall implying anyone being a 12 year old kid. . . ?

and lastly, if i am at fault for being antagonistic and disrespectful, then please dont be so rude as to be hypocritcal by being disrespectful yourself. ie "obnoxious rant removed".

i dont mind being flamed, but dont chastise me for it when youre being equally as rude yourself

[Thyiad]

You have recieved an infraction and a two day ban. Improve your behaviour.

EDIT:
Full details of exactly which parts of your original post was problematic are detailed in your Infraction notice. Thank you for your cooperation.

[Jaedhann]

I like IDíng for two reasons.

1: The suspence when you found a golden scourge, legendary mullet, ehm, mallet or a sacred armor.

2: As a single player i like to run LK. I usually fill up my whole invetory with charms and jewel and then identify them all at once at cain. Just to see if my lifebulb has gone up.

[Omikron8]

Some people prefer to keep uniques unidentified for trading. Or just a *minor* gold sink if you never save Cain.

that hasn't been necessary since 1.09

[Dorfoumous]

I kinda agree with Niceone.

However, in another post ILikestuff was kinda abusive, but nothing that would result in a ban.

Anyways: Another thing I thought off Id'ing allows you to see what mods you get, as in, some of the mods for the unique stuff have random mods.

[Thyiad]

Let's stop this right here people. This isn't your average internet forum where you flame any other user on here. Read the forum rules; link at the top of every page.

The post to which I linked, was derogatory and flaming. He was instructed that tone was unacceptable and to PM if he had questions. That's Mod-standard procedure. He got off lucky considering he's previoiusly been warned for flaming.

So he makes a second post; that was absolutely unacceptable.

Then a second *account* is made. That's auto-ban for both accounts. He can appeal if he wants.

Check the forum rules - link in my signature. Especially #1 and #9.

This gets back on topic. Now. Thank you for your cooperation.

[stillman]

It may seem that people are complaining about a few seconds to id, but really, you have to think about the accumulation of several hours of lost playing time. There are so many drops, so we're talking a whole lot of interuptions to id items. In a game where you devote so much time, you don't want even a small percentage of time wasted because it adds up.

[tyranius]

LoL, I saw that they're gonna reset the ladder... AGAIN. I hate that. Better just wait for D3 cuz I'm done with D2.

[Remy]

I think the pro-ID VS anti-ID debate is starting to lose a bit of focus. I don't think the folks against ID are really basing their opinion on time, rather, it's more of an issue of effort VS purpose. To make any use of anything with a mod(other than superiors) in the game, you have to ID it. However, 99+% of the time you either already know what it is(uniques and sets), or it is pretty sure to be utterly useless anyway(magics and rares). In its current form, IDing is really just going through the motions, it hardly serves any practical purpose in actuality. I really doubt anyone truly believes the ID mechanic to be bad simply because it takes up X amount of time.

But I think it has a lot to do with D2's current game design. I think it's a lost cause in the current game, but ID can still serve a purpose depending on the kind of game design they go with in the future. If nothing else they should make more varieties of the same item type, instead of trying to come up with lots of unique/set items to cover every item type. While they're at it, they could try harder to keep every unique/set item useful. So instead of having a few that are obviously the best choices, make everything equally good but are different "flavors" that could still be very good depending on a character's build.

I personally would like to see a 2 tier system for item mods and IDing. The first tier of mods would be just like how things are now. A second tier of mods would be perhaps one additional prefix/suffix/mod that is hidden and can only be revealed with a special tier 2 ID scroll that is only dropped and not sold in shops. Also, I think it would be fun to have multiple versions of the same unique/set item.

So say you have an SoJ, you can wear it around with the same old +1 skill, +25% mana, +20 mana, 1-12 lightning dmg. But when you find a tier 2 ID scroll from a drop, you can use it to further ID your SoJ and end up with fast cast SoJ or resist SoJ or whatever else. I think having a smaller number of items that are all good and useful but each with a handful(5 or so different kinds) of possible 2nd tier mod might be a fun idea. People can go for the different flavors of the same item, and also, unIDed trading would be meaningful since the base item traded is still good regardless of the outcome on the 2nd tier mod.

With that idea, you can just go two ways. Either keep the current ID system and add the 2nd tier ID scrolls, or just do away with the current ID altogether and have items self-ID but have the drop-only ID scrolls for the 2nd tier mods. They're both pretty much the same really. However, if we're to keep the current ID system in anyway, I think they should make even completely unidentified items equip-able. Why can't you whack a mob with a weapon just because you're not exactly sure if it's really that epic one you heard of in the legends that was used by the famous hero Whatshisname? They're saying the object is so vague that you can't even carry on your person other than keeping it in a bag or something, it makes very little sense.

Anyway, I just think there are lots of possible ways to make ID useful. But it is definitely quite useless as it is now.

First post btw, hi.

[sayaz]

unid packs - particularly rings, amulets, pelts etc make alot of people alot of money. You can't say ID is useless.

[tyranius]

unid packs - particularly rings, amulets, pelts etc make alot of people alot of money. You can't say ID is useless.

How can they make a lot of money? I've never seen that.

[LifeAfterDeath]

When someone posts an argument thread against a particular game mechanic, I'm usually for the "lazy" side, but this time I'd have to disagree. I keep coming back to Diablo year after year, well I really haven't figured out why. But part of it is the prospect of finding a good item. I'll agree that it's hard to find a good magic item, or rare to find a good rare, a lot of the uniques and sets are useless, etc. and it takes up extra time to ID these, whatever. But I really don't mind it. I look at it as more gold for me to do whatever with (repair, gamble, buy TPs/potions, lose while dueling), no big deal.

Seeing that green or gold on the ground gets my heart pumping. I vary my gameplay so much that when I find a set or unique it's an uncommon occurence. I can understand if you MF 24/7 (without a bot ofcourse) that seeing the same crappy item that you're not looking for over and over can be quite annoying. But the majority of my gameplay is at the higher levels. Usually in hell, any magic+ item that drops has CHANCE of being good. I get excited when I uncover a great item. When I identify that unique that dropped and it comes up with near perfect stats, I get overjoyed.

I just can't agree with the argument "I don't like to ID because it takes away from my killing monsters time." Killing monsters over and over and over for hours on end would get me burnt out of a game really fast. I look at IDing as a nice break. If you're like me, you won't pick up everything you see. Usually I only pick up stuff that I know will sell well to NPCs (blue armors, staves, orbs, scepters, ring/amulets, etc.), sets and uniques as well as rare (yellow) high-end items or items that have the potential to be better than a unique (amulets/rings, gloves, boots, etc.)

This is just a collection of thoughts. I hope you can get something out of it.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

@LifeAfterDeath - <nods> Well put, plus it saves me having to post my very similar thoughts. :thumbup:

Only wish to add:
If you're playing untwinked/single-pass/self-found and/or are item-poor, Identify is potentially a big part of the game and the fun component of it. "Is this item going to improve my character?!"

If you're twinked to the gills, with all the best gear, I can see why Identify adds little or no value to your game. Why bother ... you can't improve on what you already have, most likely.

Two different game-styles that lead to two different points of view. If you ignore that fact, you're just comparing apples and oranges.

[Kiroptus]

Sorry guys but I just cant see how identify is so thrilling and exciting. I mean... its the biggest argument in favor of it and I just cant see it.

The way you people describe is as if Identification is something close to an orgasm...

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Sorry guys but I just cant see how identify is so thrilling and exciting. I mean... its the biggest argument in favor of it and I just cant see it.

Fair enough.

The way you people describe is as if Identification is something close to an orgasm...

Errr ... I don't think that this forum is the place to explain the difference to you. :wave:

[tyranius]

I agree with Kiroptus, what's so thrilling about iding items? And it DOES look like an orgasm the way you guys talk about it. There's no excitement in iding items. If you want to pick up the item with a twinked char and see if the gear's better then you could just as well pick it up look at stats and drop it or keep it. Besides if you think it's so thrilling to think you got a better item than you already have, when you see it on the ground makes the same effect. But again i agree with Kiroptus, there's nothing thrilling or exciting about iding items.

[ProfessionalBerg]

I think only of 1 reason to keep ID in game.

If every item was ID'd, it'd be VERY hard picking up items. Think of this:

Grandmaster's Lochaber Axe of Transcendence

Now, imagine there are 20 of them lying on the ground. Scared yet? In short, if every single item was identified, all the prefixes, suffixes and rare/set/unique names would LITTER the ground.

[Opeeq]

I agree.

It is much easier to find something you are looking for too. If I am looking for, say a magic SASH, I would have to browse through all the words on the ground, which are right next to each other, only to find a 4letter word.

This way, I can see that a sash is MAGIC, and if I am looking for a specific one, I'd just pick it up and ID it. It's not like a magic sash drops every 2 seconds.

And who the hell is picking ALL the unid items off the ground. Nobody.

[tyranius]

who said D3 is gonna have prefixes and sufixes?

[ProfessionalBerg]

who said D3 is gonna have prefixes and sufixes?

It's a very simple, but at the same time extremely powerful and flexible system. In fact, it was part of D2's charm. I'm pretty sure it will remain in D3 (if it will be released, that is).

[Kiroptus]

Identify on pickup then... It says unid until you pick it up. Is it so hard to come up with solutions?

[zooply]

Have the ability to hire Cain as a mercenary.

Problem solved

[ProfessionalBerg]

Have the ability to hire Cain as a mercenary.

Problem solved

Will we then have to listen to his "You have quite a treasure in that Horadric Cube..." all the time?

I'd rather pass.

[jakotaco]

Wherein lies the fun of Diablo PVM? Many would say it lies in progressing your chars, and getting stronger and wealthier. You feel that your play is rewarding when you get a level up, or find something valueable or useful. The identification process makes the "tension" of finding an item last a little bit longer. Sure it's not that orgasmic, but it's the same kind of "tension" that most lotteries are based on.

I mean, how fun would a "scratch-and-win" be if it had only one field reading either a zero or the amount won?

It also makes it a bit more sport as players race for that magic tiara dropped by baal, compared to what it would be if they already knew from the start that it (like 95% of the drops) were a crap item.

[Lyrs]

Yes we need it. Just find a way to make it useful.

[Kiroptus]

It also makes it a bit more sport as players race for that magic tiara dropped by baal, compared to what it would be if they already knew from the start that it (like 95% of the drops) were a crap item.

Again... then make it auto-identify on picking it up! The process of identification is useless in such a loot centric game, tho some of its concepts might still be ... somewhat aplicable... like not knowing if that was a crap or not item.

Also... who makes a "sport race" to see what magic item that was? When the game has rares, uniques and sets, its not going to be an magic item that triggers the "sport race for the item!". Its sets, uniques and sometimes rares that do that. And you cant know all their mods from the name anyway.

You see... to defend the useless act of identification you people have to spin around and around, harverst little concepts inside the game in order to fit the idea that identification is something useful in a game where more than 200+magic items can drop in a single game, in a timespan of less than 30 min. Its the only way to actually give a reason for the existence of identification in a hack and slash.

If the magic items came out already identified, maybe we would see more untwinked characters using them. The game already has 3 types of items that are much more superior to magic items, its much easier to just ignore the huge ammount of magics that drops (which mostly are garbage) then having the trouble to id all of them hoping its actually something good.

[Dirkw]

Yes...

The need for blue items to be identified may substract from their attractiveness but that's because blue items are 1)incredibly abundant and 2)mostly and typically inferior to yellow and gold ones.

If items are arranged in d3 as they are in d2, I could see a need for blue ones to auto-identify in some way.

But yellow and gold ones... I just wouldn't find it very elegant to just see a Stone of Jordan (or whatever it may be called in d3) drop from a random creature on one of the first maps. Also, when you're finding your rare (yellow, gold) items for the first time, the process of identification can be very thrilling.

I say: keep it for rare items, remove it for common magical ones.

[Llama8]

I never missed IDing stuff when I moved over to Sacred, though I do like the idea of having an ID scroll to give the story behind a unique/set item.

Carrying round ID scrolls/tomes just doesn't really do it for me.

[lumpor]

I got so angry reading some replies, that I had to reply myself before reading everything.

WHY do people think that people who don't like to identify items like to rush and such? I personally am not thrilled by going back to town, talk to Deckard Cain, hearing him say "stay a while and listen", and press a button just to know what I've got. if you like identifying so much, you can follow someone else, pick up all the magic daggers he ignores, and go to town and identify, then repeat. Wouldn't that be fun! If you like identifying so much, why not do that instead of actually fighting?

I don't like identifying, and I hate rushing even more. There's a point in doing all the quests correctly, but there's no point in clicking on lots of unnecessary buttons just to know what you pick up. I've played titanquest, and i ensure you it's great to not need to identify. When you kill a monster, and he drops something, it says like "Russet long sword of the bear (just an example, I've forgotten the mods on titan quest so I took mods from diablo).

Yes, i know it's not that bothersome to identify. I can easily live with it. You just need to go to town, talk to Cain and then go back. It's not as if I get depressed everytime I need to go to town. But can you honestly say you enjoy identfying items? When you find a magic leather armor on the ground, do you jump for joy and think "yay, an item to identify! I'm so happy, now I can identify some more". if you all think so, lets take away all the monsters in Diablo 3. lets make the objective of the first quest: Identify 5 items. As a reward, you get 2 magic bucklers, which are identifiable. But since you're not fighting, you don't need them for equipping. The only reason you need them is cause it's so fun identifying.

Anyway, rushing, hacking, duping and all that. i don't do any of them because they defy the meaning of the game, and shun the normal ways of doing things (questing and mfing), which make the game enjoyable. But identifying? Now that's a completely different matter. To not identify and to hack, do you think it's the same thing? According to me, there's quite a difference. To not hack, and play the game properly and work your way up to glory, I find a meaning in that. Hacking ruins that purpose. but what does skipping identifying ruin? There's a meaning in playing the game properly, but there's no meaning in identifying. It's like saying: "Oh my god! You would want to drink tea for free rather than needing to pay for it! that means you're lazy and don't want to do unnecessary work! That means you don't want to work to get stuff and would rather steal cause you're too lazy to get stuff yourself! Oh my god!"

Seriously, learn the difference between "necessary work" and "unnecessary work"

edit: Oh also, let me tell you. I've played diablo 2 for years, and I've never been twinked, because for some reason I always grow tired of my characters before i get rich. I've probably played untwinked more than most of you. Sure, I get exceited when finding a unique on the ground. But even if it said "axe of fechmar large axe" on the ground, I'd still be excited, since I woudn't know what it does. If I knew what it does, I wouldn't be excited even if it was unidentified, because I would know what it was anyway. The only place it would make a difference is when you don't have all the information about the item just because it's unique, like rings for example. But when I get an item I don't know about and am excited, I just think the time needed to identify is annoying since it takes a longer time to see what it is.

Also, have you thought of the dissapointment if you get a manald heal from Mephisto? If you get a unique ring, get excited, threatening Cain into Identifying it into a stone of jordan, and it turns out to be crap. That makes you dissapointed. If you got to know what ring it was immediately, you'd just think "too bad" and move on. the system in titan quest is so much better.

Also, some people in the beginning said that you should auto-identify when you pick up an item. But it's better if the name is already displayed while it's on the ground.

[Tanooki]

I'm guessing the folks who don't like to ID items don't trade with other people much.

On a side note, I love this phrase: "I've never heard of this, so therefore you're wrong."

If you find a CoA, for example, and want to trade it for hrs, you're best off keeping it un'ided. You'll get the middle-of-the-road price for it. If it had been 2os, it would have been a lot more valuable, but if you got 1os, it would have been worthless.

Anni's are another good example. They have 3 variable stats, so it's just easier to buy them unid'ed.

[Tanooki]

Gaaar. Stupid double post.

[mephiztophelez]

Identification of magic items was born in D&D, where magic items were rare and the lore attribute could sometimes identify it instantly (not really sure about that)

oh no, never "instantly". if it's dnd your talking about, nothing happens "instantly"....

there would have had to be much rolling of various regular polygons, looking for curses, traps, anything-a-paranoid-pc-might-imagine-a-power mad-dm-has-come-up-with..... intelligence checks, memorizing of spells and arcane suchlike.......

actually, almost anything up-too and including putting the damn thing on. guaranteed to find out if that "ring of odd dweomer" IS actually a ring of invisibility....

[Thyiad]

I admit I'm using D2 terminology here, because that's the only point of reference that I have. In a way it makes more sense for the uniques/sets to be pre-ID'd. Yes the stats do vary but once you've seen one Green Splint Mail, it's not really that exciting.

Rares (yellow) items are another matter. They can be much more interesting. I always ID rings, ammys, boots, gloves, circlets. Time consuming? Maybe. I'm a packrat (20k SP items was my limit before I pruned to about 14k). Most of my chars hold a tome. If I'm really short on space, I'll carry a single ID scroll or two in the belt.

I will point out that SP Muling is MUCH easier with ATMA (you may know it from the drop calculator element) or GoMule than the realms. I don't have Bnet mules because it would just drive me batty.

Magic (blues), I'm not that bothered. Most aren't that exciting.

[Malrenn]

I have to agree with the pro IDers here. Its little things that add to the game. Using an ID scroll on that unid Heraldic Shield and hoping for 195 % ED or better. Hoping the ring is an SoJ etc etc. You start taking stuff like this away and soon it has an entirely different feel.

[tyranius]

I got so angry reading some replies, that I had to reply myself before reading everything.

WHY do people think that people who don't like to identify items like to rush and such? I personally am not thrilled by going back to town, talk to Deckard Cain, hearing him say "stay a while and listen", and press a button just to know what I've got. if you like identifying so much, you can follow someone else, pick up all the magic daggers he ignores, and go to town and identify, then repeat. Wouldn't that be fun! If you like identifying so much, why not do that instead of actually fighting?

I don't like identifying, and I hate rushing even more. There's a point in doing all the quests correctly, but there's no point in clicking on lots of unnecessary buttons just to know what you pick up. I've played titanquest, and i ensure you it's great to not need to identify. When you kill a monster, and he drops something, it says like "Russet long sword of the bear (just an example, I've forgotten the mods on titan quest so I took mods from diablo).

Yes, i know it's not that bothersome to identify. I can easily live with it. You just need to go to town, talk to Cain and then go back. It's not as if I get depressed everytime I need to go to town. But can you honestly say you enjoy identfying items? When you find a magic leather armor on the ground, do you jump for joy and think "yay, an item to identify! I'm so happy, now I can identify some more". if you all think so, lets take away all the monsters in Diablo 3. lets make the objective of the first quest: Identify 5 items. As a reward, you get 2 magic bucklers, which are identifiable. But since you're not fighting, you don't need them for equipping. The only reason you need them is cause it's so fun identifying.

Anyway, rushing, hacking, duping and all that. i don't do any of them because they defy the meaning of the game, and shun the normal ways of doing things (questing and mfing), which make the game enjoyable. But identifying? Now that's a completely different matter. To not identify and to hack, do you think it's the same thing? According to me, there's quite a difference. To not hack, and play the game properly and work your way up to glory, I find a meaning in that. Hacking ruins that purpose. but what does skipping identifying ruin? There's a meaning in playing the game properly, but there's no meaning in identifying. It's like saying: "Oh my god! You would want to drink tea for free rather than needing to pay for it! that means you're lazy and don't want to do unnecessary work! That means you don't want to work to get stuff and would rather steal cause you're too lazy to get stuff yourself! Oh my god!"

Seriously, learn the difference between "necessary work" and "unnecessary work"

edit: Oh also, let me tell you. I've played diablo 2 for years, and I've never been twinked, because for some reason I always grow tired of my characters before i get rich. I've probably played untwinked more than most of you. Sure, I get exceited when finding a unique on the ground. But even if it said "axe of fechmar large axe" on the ground, I'd still be excited, since I woudn't know what it does. If I knew what it does, I wouldn't be excited even if it was unidentified, because I would know what it was anyway. The only place it would make a difference is when you don't have all the information about the item just because it's unique, like rings for example. But when I get an item I don't know about and am excited, I just think the time needed to identify is annoying since it takes a longer time to see what it is.

Also, have you thought of the dissapointment if you get a manald heal from Mephisto? If you get a unique ring, get excited, threatening Cain into Identifying it into a stone of jordan, and it turns out to be crap. That makes you dissapointed. If you got to know what ring it was immediately, you'd just think "too bad" and move on. the system in titan quest is so much better.

Also, some people in the beginning said that you should auto-identify when you pick up an item. But it's better if the name is already displayed while it's on the ground.


I agree with you from the top to the bottom of your post. IDing is absolutely useless.

Tanooki, I trade a lot and I see no use for selling or buying unid items. I never buy something that's unid.

[korialstraz]

Just because mephisto drops a unique ring doesn't mean you should hope it's a soj. The way I see it is if something that could be good drops I expect it to be something low that I won't need. So it's like "this could be that good item, but most likely it isn't"

If the item turns out crap, then what did I loose? In id scroll. If it turns out to be something good I become VERY excited and all the time IDing useless items seems worth it.

[lumpor]

Really, this "excitement" you're all talking about, I don't really think you feel it. I mean, at least magic items need to be auto-identified. One reason to why they're so unpopular is cause there are so many and it's a pain to identify them all. Even though I think yellows and uniques should be identified automatically too, everyone who is for ID-ing still has to agree that magic items should be auto-identified. Oh my god! A magic amulet! Maybe it's a +2 to paladin skills amulet! Oh, it was a saphire amulet of the jackal... Oh! Look! A pair of magic gloves! They may be lancers gloves of alacrity! Nah, they were only Gloves of thawing...

Magic items at least, should be auto-identified. And even if you want to keep that "excitement", can't you just have a skill (that every class has), that's called identify and takes 2 mana, instead of needing to use a stupid scroll or visit town? That still keeps the "excitement" as you call it, but it's more practical. You should all try playing titan quest, and see if you miss identifying so much

Also, unidentified trading is just stupid. I've never experienced it, and i don't think many want to either. I don't think that contributes alot to the game either. It causes just as much grief as it contributes joy. But really, I don't think it's necessary, and it's much easier to just trade the normal way

[lumpor]

I want to show you some situations where numbers 1 and 3 and 5 are with ID and the other ones aren't:

1. Mephisto drops an unidentified unique flail. You don't know what it does You get excited and wonder what it does. You pick it up. You have to go back to town to get it identified. Now it takes a longer time to see what it is! After some work, you see what it is.
2. Mephisto drops a "the general's tan do li ga flail". You don't know what it does, and while you see it on the ground you are excited. Then you pick it up. You don't need to wait to see the mods! You can see them as soon as you pick it up!
3. Mephisto drops an unidentified unique flail. You know what it does, so there's no excitement.
4. Mephisto drops a "the general's tan do li ga flail". You know what it does, so you don't get excited.

In situation 1 and 2, you get excited when you see that golden text on the ground. but in situation 1, that time to identify it is actually just annoying cause you need to wait before you can see the mods. You'll think "but I want to see them now". Trust me, I have experience on the matter. The time to identify it after you pick it up isn't filled with excitement, just impatience. The excitement comes when you discover you got a unique, not when working to see what it does.

Now, consider you're an experienced player who knows about the rings:
1. Hell Mephisto drops an unidentified unique ring. You think "I hope this is a stone of jordan! I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I'd be so happy if it were one". This time is filled with nervosity and hope, but also fear that it can be a manald. This time isn't a happy time, this is a nervous time. Then Cain identifies it, and it's a jordan. You think "Yes! A Jordan! Finally I got something useful from that stupid Mephisto!" There's actually no excitement here. Just nervosity followed by joy
2. Hell Mephisto drops a stone of Jordan. You think "Yes! A Jordan! Finally I got something useful from that stupid Mephisto!" You feel the same joy as when identifying that unique ring (really you do. There's no "I'm-happier-just-because-I-won-against-big-odds" sort of thing. The end result was the same in both of the situations). Maybe you will be a bit happier if you identify it to a jordan, but that tiny bit of happiness isn't enough to justify the sadness from the identifying system that is shown here:

So in these situations the happiness is the same. When you still hadn't identified that ring, you feel both hope and fear, and they neutralize each other, so overall you feel neither happy nor sad before identifying.

3: Hell Mephisto drops an unidentified unique ring. You think "I hope this is a stone of jordan! I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I'd be so happy if it were one". This time is filled with nervosity and hope, but also fear that it can be a manald. This time isn't a happy time, this is a nervous time. Then Cain identifies it, and it's a manald heal. you think "Argh! A stupid Manald! I'm so tired of this ring! I get it all the time, and it's so worthless! Why do I always get such bad drops!? Why god, why? Why am I always the unlucky one? Why does everyone else get Jordans when I only get crap (maybe a bit exaggerated, but you will be dissapointed).
4. Hell mephisto drops a manald heal. You look through all the loot. "Hmm, a rare fuscina, a rare balrog blade, a manald heal, and a magic sharktooth armor. Nope, nothing interesting. Wish I got something better, but I'll just do another run now.

In 3 you'll be dissapointed because you got a manald instead of a jordan. In 4 you'll be dissapointed because Meph only dropped trash. You will be more dissapointed in 3 of course, cause it's normal that Mephisto only drops rubbish, but it's not as normal that he drops a rare ring. In 3, you will think "that ring could've been a jordan!". In 4, you will think "just another manald". With identify, manalds and jordans come from the same item(an unidentified gold-texted ring). But without it, they will have little relation to each other, and you will treat them as separate items. You will think "manalds are manalds, and jordans are jordans". Without the identifying system, you will think of them as completely different items, and therefore not think of jordans when you see the manald.

So, as you can see from all this, in all the matches, non-identifying either has a draw or winds against identifying (I still think that the happiness when finding a jordan and happiness when finding a jordan is the same). Now, for the last events:
1. Your hammerdin just cleared a room full of monsters. Lots of unidentified magic items on the ground. You think "argh, it's probably all rubbish anyway", and don't even pick them up. If someone who is poor but lazy does this, he may also have a small sense of guilt in the back of his head.
2. Your hammerdin clears a room full of monsters. Lots of long blue texts, but among them, you catch a glimpse of a jewellers sacred targe of amicae! Yes! Now i'll socket this with sol runes and be almost invincible!
3. Same as 1
4. The hammerdin looks down on the ground. After reading all the mods for some seconds, he finds nothing of interest and moves on. Don't say "if the items on the ground are identified, you need to read them all, and that takes time. With unidentified items you don't need to read and therefore win time". This is wrong. You don't have to read unidentified items if you don't want to. You can just move on without reading, and get the same result as in 3. This only gives another option, but you can skip that option and take the same route as before too, so it doesn't really sink you.

5. Your hammerdin clears a room and finds lots of blues. You don't like wasting or you need gear improvement so you pick them all up and identify them. This has taken more than 10 seconds.
6. the hammerdin reads all the mods on the floor. This took about 3 seconds.

Here, non-identifying system wins hands-down. Since they are blues that drop all the time, you won't feel any excitement (except if you find amulets/rings/circlets. In that case the same happens as in the previous events with the rings).

maybe statistics can't prove anything, and people feel differently when things happen, but overall I think this is proof enough that the identifying system is more of a hassle than exciting.

now, as that person before me said: You convince yourself that that unique ring is a bad ring in order to not get dissapointed. But can you really admit that the back of your head is't whispering "stone of jordan"?

But despite all that, can you at least agree with me that magic items need to be identified automatically?

[Kiroptus]

^Exactly my feelings on the subject, I just didnt want to put it so detailed! Thanks for this post!

I honestly think that "identification" is just fat in Diablo's design, just get rid of it already. I still cant see all the "excitement" that everyone here evokes.

[captmushroom]

I think maybe Identify should be removed for magic items onry. Keep the sets, uniques, rare, etc.. unidentified. As it is I don't even carry a Tome of Identify on me. If the Magical item that drops just looks worthless enough in a sense I don't even take it back to Cain. When I say worthless, I'm not looking at it's selling potential... I'm looking more into it's possible crafting potential.

[tyranius]

Not for blue items only. Keep all the items already identified. We don't need identify.

[zarirazz]

imo id-ing is quite integral to the game. it's like.. gambling. and gambling in the game is fun =P

[lumpor]

Why not just gamble at Gheeds?