So...Tyreal is possessed by Diablo? Or Baal? [Archive]

Netherscourge

29-06-2008, 04:03

I'm trying to figure out the storyline of the game.

It seems from the Splash on the Blizzard site, something rather... um... distoring?... has happened to out old buddy Tyreal.

(Perhaps he spent too much time in the Cow Level?)

Anywho, after killing Diablo and Baal about 800 times a night for over 4 years, it's kinda hard to figure out how this dude is coming back again. Any story concering demons is pretty much open for ANY possibility... but I am curious as to who exactly is behind it.

The game is called Diablo 3, so I presume Diablo is at least partially behind it.

Baal seemed to be the brains behind the last operation - I can't imagine Baal being absent from a Diablo reawakening. He's like the Lord Valdemort of Sactuary...

I wonder what sort of strange story is going to come from this?

raveharu

29-06-2008, 04:57

I don't think the storyline will be that lame :whistling:

If you watch the trailer, it shows a new area, reminds me of Gondor in LOTR.
Maybe new Bosses, the two remaining Lesser Evils will definitely be in D3.

Kiroptus

29-06-2008, 05:09

Actually I think that Heaven itself isnt all made of good guys.

millys

29-06-2008, 05:40

I was thinking maybe Tyrael is actually the Lord of Lies which the game talks about but we've never seen.

Telzen

01-07-2008, 04:10

So you think Tyreal is Belial? Don't see how a demon could have possibly been posing as an angel this entire time.

Apocalypse

01-07-2008, 04:15

cant really say i have any idea what the story is but i would love to see all the evils in it, maybe not in the finished game but at least in the xpac. really want to see the take on the other lesser evils and see how they reimagine the evils we have already seen to date. i just hope diablo is less of a dinosaur this time around

raveharu

01-07-2008, 04:16

Edit:made a new thread.

aSimpleFear

01-07-2008, 04:18

Or cain is the lord of lies?

That guy just spends way to much time with demons to NOT be the lord of lies.

There was always something strange about him in Diablo1. In Diablo2 you 'rescue' him from tristram even though every one else is slaughtered (even wirt :(). Now in diablo3 you find him in the depths of a demonic catacomb. He HAS to be the lord of lies.

Tyrael is probably betrayed by Cain and then ends up like Izzy. Diablo and all his brothers are freed somehow and we start back from square 1.

Felix

01-07-2008, 04:23

Ever since DII came out I thought Tyrael was somewhat suspect. Mainly because of the pitchblack within his hood. He didn't quite look like a being of light to me, but he didn't step outside in DII or LoD so I've now come to trust him...

Apocalypse

01-07-2008, 04:26

lets hope cain is not the lord of lies, i like him, really dont wanna have to kill him lol.

great pic rave and thanks for the quote, i have not read the books at all but that makes me want to lol

mibir

01-07-2008, 04:29

You know that's a good point, why is Cain being spared?

sicilian

01-07-2008, 04:36

I actually think Mephisto was more the brains of the Three. Baal really didn't do ANYTHING until both his brothers were dead. Mephisto was the one leading the ceremony before Diablo returned to form.

Apocalypse

01-07-2008, 04:39

I actually think Mephisto was more the brains of the Three. Baal really didn't do ANYTHING until both his brothers were dead. Mephisto was the one leading the ceremony before Diablo returned to form.

he is the eldest anyway aint he? i agree that he seemed to be the brains, and just cause you fight him first does not go against that imo. it seemed like he had a plan and sent his brothers off to do it while he stayed behind to hold position in kurast

ThulRasha

01-07-2008, 10:39

You know that's a good point, why is Cain being spared?

Exactly. The whole town was murdered, and some turned into the walking dead, such as good old Griswold.
Why was Cain left alive in a cage? Was it merely to lure the adventurers to a possible death trap, or is Cain not what he seems to be?

Swiffer

01-07-2008, 11:10

Exactly. The whole town was murdered, and some turned into the walking dead, such as good old Griswold.
Why was Cain left alive in a cage? Was it merely to lure the adventurers to a possible death trap, or is Cain not what he seems to be?

Because Griswold was a nobody. He was an armorsmith in a small town town called Tristram.

Cain, Cain is the last surviving member of the Horadrim, the order charged by the Archangel Tyrael himself with keeping the captured Prime Evils from ever returning to the mortal world. How often do Evils leave their sworn enemies alive to see the ultimate failure of their life long efforts?

Left hanging in a cage to watch the site of a great victory against evil turned into hell on earth, a sample of what Diablo would bring across the entire world, likely with only enough life left in him to see the Prime Evils return and conquer the mortal plane.

Thirty-Thirty

01-07-2008, 11:56

Since I've just re-read it, this is the blurb on the game's frontpage:
When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram's Cathedral seeking clues to new stirrings of evil, a comet from the heavens strikes the very ground where Diablo once entered the world. The comet carries a dark omen in its fiery being and it calls the heroes of Sanctuary to defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells – and even the failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself.

The important part, no doubt, is the "failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself". This is tremendous fuel for Tyrael's corruption. I'm starting to form an image of Diablo (or the triple-evil-beastie) being the end boss of D3, and Tyrael potentially being the villain of the inevitable expansion, perhaps trying to stage his own coup of the Heavens or Hells.

However, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a second by saying it's still possible that neither Cain nor Tyrael have become corrupted. The High Heavens are presumably filled with a litany of (arch)angels to choose from as new characters. The Heavens may have decided that humanity has become a tool of the Evils rather than remained neutral, and Tyrael could, for example, be trying to preserve humanity in the face of Sanctuary being overridden by both Darkness and Light.

To cut a long story short, yes, Tyrael being corrupted is an option that would fit in (and could be wrought into a wickedly twisting dark storyline punctuated by epic boss battles), but I'm not counting out other options just yet.

SweWings

01-07-2008, 15:16

Didn't the 'Lesser Evils' revolt against the 'Primes'? And if so, why would Belial in disguise as Tyrael fudge up a situation where the Primes are gone the way he did?

Swiffer

01-07-2008, 16:01

Didn't the 'Lesser Evils' revolt against the 'Primes'? And if so, why would Belial in disguise as Tyrael fudge up a situation where the Primes are gone the way he did?

The lesser evils, led by Azmodan and Belial, banded together and overthrew the Prime Evils and banishes their spirits to the mortal realm during the Sin War.

Andarial and Duriel both switched allegiances back to Diablo once he returned, but Azmodan and Belial did not (to our knowledge anyway).

They banished the prime evils the first time, they have every motivation to finish the job and completely wipe out the Primes.

Alkey

01-07-2008, 17:31

prion

01-07-2008, 23:35

However, I'd like to play devil's advocate for a second by saying it's still possible that neither Cain nor Tyrael have become corrupted. The High Heavens are presumably filled with a litany of (arch)angels to choose from as new characters. The Heavens may have decided that humanity has become a tool of the Evils rather than remained neutral, and Tyrael could, for example, be trying to preserve humanity in the face of Sanctuary being overridden by both Darkness and Light.

So Tyrael is Kosh, the Heavens are the rest of the Vorlons and the Hells are the Shadows :D

Corkee

02-07-2008, 00:43

So Tyrael is Kosh, the Heavens are the rest of the Vorlons and the Hells are the Shadows :D

And Vir is Farnam the drunk...

SirMoogie

02-07-2008, 04:19

To cut a long story short, yes, Tyrael being corrupted is an option that would fit in (and could be wrought into a wickedly twisting dark storyline punctuated by epic boss battles), but I'm not counting out other options just yet.

Exactly. Here is an alternative hypothesis based on that same paragraph.

A dark omen is not necessarily an evil thing in itself, nor necessarily a living thing. Omens are merely harbingers for something to come, in this case something dark. As such, even if the comet from heaven is Tyreal, as I speculate it is, he could be bringing a message to the heroes that heaven itself has turned on the mortal realm.

The passage states that this omen calls on the heroes of Sanctuary to defend the mortal realm from heaven and hell. It doesn't say it is what the heroes should be fighting. As such, if the omen is Tyreal, it could be siding with the heroes of Sanctuary against heaven and hell.

Tyreal has always been on the side of the mortals, even against heaven's wishes. Perhaps, heaven has decided that the mortal realm has become too much of a burden, as it allows hell easier access. Tyreal might not want any of that.

At the moment all we have is speculation, but I prefer my interpretation of the text, as I'd prefer Tyreal remain good. :thumbsup:

JayhawkFan

02-07-2008, 04:28

who the hell is gonna ID my crap? thats the real issue here folks...

Cyborgasm

02-07-2008, 04:48

We got Leah now...

"Stay a while, and listen!"

-Talk
-Identify items
-Get a BJ

ThulRasha

02-07-2008, 11:01

Talk? Is that really neccesary? :p

Thirty-Thirty

02-07-2008, 11:20

At the moment all we have is speculation, but I prefer my interpretation of the text, as I'd prefer Tyreal remain good. :thumbsup:
Yours is a good point that I think most people are overlooking for the sake of a "cool" twist of Tyrael being evil or in some way corrupted.

I'm quite sure that the meteor is bringing an angel. That's based on the frontpage of the site (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/) which shows and angel almost certainly standing in the cathedral where the meteor struck. I say this because of the cathedral-ish backdrop and (more importantly) the candles to the right-hand side.

Is it Tyrael? Probably. As a newcomer to the series, the only angel one would have seen is the guy in the cinematic throwing a sword at some big red rock. We know that's Tyrael throwing his blade at the Worldstone, so, supposing it's the same angel, and that his appearance in the cathedral is linked to the meteor, that'd make it Tyrael in the cathedral.

Is Tyrael corrupt? Who really knows? There are many reasons for Tyrael to return to Sanctuary. He may need to meet the evils (coorupt), or he may have been banished for interfering so in the world of men (uncorrupt). I do, however, think that the end of D3 will see us fight Diablo (or the triumvirate-beastie), and that the inevitable expansion will see us at odds with some angelic force, potentially led by Tyrael. I feel it more likely that he is in some way turned against the player during the course of D3.

A thought popped into my head about telling angels apart. I'm presuming that Tyrael's appearance will be preserved as vaguely characteristic. Any Diablo fan can probably tell Tyrael and Hadriel apart on sight. This artwork (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/media/artwork.xml#48) shows an angel with clearly yellow armour. Is it Tyrael's glowing armour from the impact of the meteor? Or is this perhaps the evidence of another angel? (We already have the four-panel metamorphosis (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss35-hires.jpg) that appears to depict two angels. This may well be the other one.)

detestrian

02-07-2008, 11:25

So Tyrael is Kosh, the Heavens are the rest of the Vorlons and the Hells are the Shadows :D

Knowledge is a three-edged sword.

Alkey

02-07-2008, 16:28

Actually that makes perfect sense. The meteor isn't a meteor at all, it's an angel, falling at terminal velocity. Tyrael is cast out of heaven, a fallen angel, for his part in the destruction of the worldstone. (not just throwing his sword, but the assisting the horadrim in using the soulstones on the evils that played into thier plan to corrupt the worldstone). He either lands in Tristram as a decicion of the heavenly council as a fitting end. Or he needs to speak to Dekard Cain and the chapel is the easiest tartget from 30,000 ft.

smartdot

02-07-2008, 16:47

could someone say what the other lesser evils are? i dont remember anything about more lesser evils.

I think that tryeal will be evil some how, but not a demon from the start, as he has helped so much throughout the series. it would have been easy to simply make the portal labeled harrogath go into the center of a volcano or something.

Cain i dont think was evil in the first too games, but there is a possibility that something killed him, then took his place within that dungeon. stay awhile and listen. THEN DIE!

Grunthex

08-07-2008, 04:54

Smartdot-

The 4 lesser Evils were Andariel, Duriel, Azmodan and Belial. I don't have the lore or know much about the latter two, though I believe their titles were Lord of Sins and Lord of Lies respectively.

Tsumaru

08-07-2008, 05:20

Izual the fallen angel confesses in act4 of D2 that the banishment was all a ruse, the primes and lesser evils conspired together to send the primes to sanctuary in order to lure Tyrael to use the soulstones one the evils. Izual betrayed the seceret of the stones so that the prime evils could still influence from within the stones. It would seem Belial and Azmodan were always on the same team as the prime Es
You're only half right. Izual conspired with the Prime Evils to *bait* the Lessers into banishing them. The banishment was genuine, but the Prime Evils *wanted* to get banished so it was to their benefit to set it up so it happened. Azmodan and Belial were the masterminds behind the banishment and overthrow, and afterwards they fought with each other over who should be in control of Hell. It is this last point which confirms that while there was a conspiracy, the Lessers were not in on it.

Thirty-Thirty

08-07-2008, 11:01

For reference:
You see, it was I who told Diablo and his Brothers about the Soulstones and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their own exile to your world.

KiLLJOi

08-07-2008, 11:39

Have you guys seen this?
Interesting...:scratchchin:

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2783/tyraelsyy9.png

lionheart

08-07-2008, 12:06

Yea people bring this up as well as proof that Tyrael is corrupted since his wings are a little reddish in the upper pics... :whistling:

Thirty-Thirty

08-07-2008, 12:20

The official hi-res version is here (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss35-hires.jpg). I forgot which thread this issue already cropped up in.

Interesting? Definitely. What it means? No idea whatsoever. The artwork can't always be dismissed, because images like the goatman (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss49-hires.jpg) and Caldeum (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss47-hires.jpg) (?) count for something.

The initial sketch shows that there's someone else in the scene, clearly. This might be someone showing off their ability to disguise themselves as an angel (maybe Tyrael), largely because the initial figure has a distinctly different appearance: fiery yellow wings and a winged helm, for a start. Also, the sword has a very peculiar design, which is nothing like Tyrael's simple sword.

I think it's related to this one (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss48-hires.jpg), which might be post-transformation. I really don't think that's Tyrael. It just doesn't look like him, somehow. My guess is that it's another angel who might be playing both sides, or be of a special order that has a transformation skill somewhere along the line.

I've just noticed the circular links on the sides of the upper chestpiece of the angel's armour. I can't find a good pic of Tyrael to see if he had them (and don't have D2 with me). If he doesn't, it's worth noting that the guy at the homepage does.

Tsumaru

08-07-2008, 13:50

For the circular links on the chestpiece, Tyrael sure does have them.

This is a low-res pic, but I believe everyone should recognise it from the opening cinematic for D2:
http://images.gametrailers.com/images/userimages/165224-tyrael-icon.jpg
Here's the cinematic on youtube if you want to be able to scroll to it quickly, or whatever:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kPXdtz_c4
Jump to 1:13. I gotta tell you, that second picture is DEFINITELY Tyrael. Either that, or a whole bunch of angels have identical armour. Which is possible, but would also kinda not be cool. Sorta confusing too.

As for the first 5-panel image... I'm still not convinced that it necessarily means anything evil. The difference between the first 2 panels and the last 3 is just way too dramatic. The last three in isolation don't look evil. The first two... yeah the flamey wings are undeniable. But I'm not going the whole "Tyrael is definitely evil" way just because of that, especially considering the rest of the image.. There could be any number of explanations.

Cwicseolfor

08-07-2008, 14:05

Actually I think that Heaven itself isnt all made of good guys.

You're right on that; Heaven is a force of Order, and Hell is a force of Chaos.

It's turning out very much like the plot of Babylon 5.

However, it's very unlikely that Tyreal is 'corrupted', but hey, the theory was bound to pop up, and will likely only die when the game is released and proves it wrong.

Edit: lol, beaten to the Babylon 5 comparison it seems:

So Tyrael is Kosh, the Heavens are the rest of the Vorlons and the Hells are the Shadows :D

ThulRasha

08-07-2008, 15:20

The official hi-res version is here (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss35-hires.jpg). I forgot which thread this issue already cropped up in.

<snip>

The initial sketch shows that there's someone else in the scene, clearly. This might be someone showing off their ability to disguise themselves as an angel (maybe Tyrael), largely because the initial figure has a distinctly different appearance: fiery yellow wings and a winged helm, for a start. Also, the sword has a very peculiar design, which is nothing like Tyrael's simple sword.

<snip>

What sword? There is no sword in that image. His tabard may be mistaken for a sword with 2 pointy tips, but only if you did not see the 2 images above it.

I also do not see a difference in the winged helm, wich is only visible in the upper images and not in the lower ones, as he throws back his head and in the most lower image nothing can be seen anymore because of the blinding light.

The person in the initial sketch appears to be a bystander (or hero) who witnesses the transformation or ascendance that the angel is going trough.

It is of course possible to interpreted these images differently, but it looks a bit like you are looking at a completely different image than I am :crazyeyes:

Thirty-Thirty

08-07-2008, 17:35

What sword? There is no sword in that image. His tabard may be mistaken for a sword with 2 pointy tips, but only if you did not see the 2 images above it.Hmmm... I'm taking a really close look now, and you're right, it's not a sword. In fact, it might just be a silhouetted piece of cloak. :O

I also do not see a difference in the winged helm, wich is only visible in the upper images and not in the lower ones, as he throws back his head and in the most lower image nothing can be seen anymore because of the blinding light.That's exactly what I mean. The figure in the top two images is definitely not the Tyrael we know. Actually, I'm starting to wonder if the final figure looks anything like Tyrael, too. I thought his head became the usual faceless-hood, but you're right: he seems to be just tilting his head back.

The person in the initial sketch appears to be a bystander (or hero) who witnesses the transformation or ascendance that the angel is going trough.Sorry, I've just realised my original post was ambiguous. Yeah, it's just some non-descript onlooker (who could be an angel, since there are lines resembling the blades of their wings :p).

Basically, I'm going against my usual principle of not reading much into these things, and suggesting whatever springs to mind. Horribly addictive, all this speculating is!

Grunthex

08-07-2008, 22:32

Having seen that angel-transformation spread a few times, the main thing that comes to mind is it doesn't look like a corruption. If anything, it's a redemption. The wings go from fire engulfed, to white light, and the glow coming off the figure itself intensifies.

Is it Tyrael? I dunno. What does it all mean? I dunno!

lionheart

08-07-2008, 23:22

Cant the firewings mean just that it is fiery since it entered the atmosphere of sanctuary at a high speed like a meteor?? Or is it too much to look for a real physics related explanation in the world of diablo lol

Telzen

09-07-2008, 05:13

Am I the only one that thinks the one on the floor of the transformation art looks more like Tyrael than the one floating?

IhatePindle

10-07-2008, 09:22

Hey, you guys/girls should take a look at these images (again)
http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss35-hires.jpg
If you look at the "angel's" chest, there's a cross on it in the third image
http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/artwork/ss48-hires.jpg
If you look at Tyrael, there's no cross on his armor.
So maybe it's not Tyrael?

Tsumaru

10-07-2008, 11:45

Was that cross always there?

I swear I've looked at that pic 100 times and never noticed it, despite it seeming so obvious now. o_O

Anyway, it's certainly an interesting point, and lends more weight to arguments countering Tyrael being evil.

DBaron

10-07-2008, 12:37

Cwicseolfor

10-07-2008, 14:31

Hooray for overanalysing.

CarsV

10-07-2008, 19:21

The posters above really got me thinking... I've always felt people were jumpin' the gun with all this Tyrael going evil nonsense. I mean it's a bit redundant if he does and makes Angels and characters of good a complete joke. The first picture is definitely a different angel than Tyrael, so this just strengthens my theories of Tyrael being punished by Heaven (not corrupted and turned evil) for interfering with the mortal realm.