View Full Version : Diablo3 Trading System
Does anybody have any information regarding trading system?
What I would like to see is some kind of Aution House and stable currency with real worth, like in WOW.
If I have to find EVERYTHING myself or barter all the time it will be really disappointing.
I would REALLY like it to be item vs. item trading (with player made currency) a.k.a. diablo II instead of WOWs boring approach. I mean what if trading is part of your fun. I don't feel like "scanning the auctionhouse".
Adding one, stable currency just makes everything so simple and flat. All you will see is... "O item X N X Gold" in trade channels. Just results in way less player-interaction and overal awereness. Need to know what some item is worth? Check AH. Need to get rid of something? Drop it in AH. Need something? Run to AH and buy it.
In short, Diablo trading was a HUGE part of the fun. Don't want the 8-yo friendly appraoch in D3.
My 2 cents.
Adding one, stable currency just makes everything so simple and flat. All you will see is... "O item X N X Gold" in trade channels. Just results in way less player-interaction and overal awereness. Need to know what some item is worth? Check AH. Need to get rid of something? Drop it in AH. Need something? Run to AH and buy it.
In short, Diablo trading was a HUGE part of the fun. Don't want the 8-yo friendly appraoch in D3.
My 2 cents.
My experiences about D2 battle.net trading can be narrowed down to: "WUG" and "WUW". It can be SO thrustrating. I consider myself social and like to interact with people but D2 trading was pure pain for me. Pretty please give us AH it makes life just so much easier.
I agree with Tigel. Trading in D2 was horrible, but maybe it was also because of the hordes of young kids there.
There wasn't even time to make a better offer when buying or selling an item, cuz they already left in half a second after your first bid. "wug, nn, bye"
I hope trading will be a bit more social and not so rushed, or else they might as well give the option to set up a store ingame on some market place while being afk.
I would REALLY like it to be item vs. item trading (with player made currency) a.k.a. diablo II instead of WOWs boring approach. I mean what if trading is part of your fun. I don't feel like "scanning the auctionhouse".
D2 simply has NO trading system. It doesn't support trading at all. Transaction costs are huge (time to find client/supplier) and there is no market value of items. You never know what it's worth for somebody else.
The fact that you have to use a trick to even move items between your own chars is ridiculous.
Need for currency is obvious too. Even in D2 there were SoJ and HR, so people tried to fill the void.
I do not hope for an auction house kind of thing. The bartering and trading is much of what DII has going for it. I played WoW and using the AH is so impersonal, nothing like making a good trade with a guy you meet in DII.
So rather deal with scams that are possible in DII atm, and then develop the trading system from where it is, keeping the heart of it.
Don't neglect the satisfaction of making a good trade, which in an AH where prices are settled will be impossible.
I think that if they "fix" everything then the game wont have any lasting effect. It's how the players play DII that is the reason for it's success. Which I think is the secret to as why all efforts by others to make a new DII has failed. They tried to "fix" everything, not knowing this was the very cause of DII's success.
Well I guess with an auction house the prices on all different items are more set. Everybody will know the price of his/her item in just 2 clicks.
For me, there where times in D2 that the only thing I was doing was trading. It got me so excited to make profit. With a auction house this gets alot harder since everybody knows the prices, so good deals are harder to find.
On advance that the Diablo 2 item system has, is that alot of items have variables, so the prices still fluctuate more then for example the items in wow.
casserole
29-06-2008, 17:36
I am different from Felix in that I have little desire to barter and haggle with others. Trading and working the economy is not something I play games for, especially not rpg games. Human nature kicks in too much anyhow, people start to get greedy and attempt to screw over others in a trade. Plus, trying to find someone to trade with takes time away from what I log into do: slaughter the bad guys!
I'd be happy with two major improvements, make gold valuable and have something like a mail system or a common storage. I'd like to think that Blizzard learned something about how pointless gold became in D2. An auction house might be a bit ambitious for D3 though.
Of course item generation system makes a big difference between games, I mean D2 with rare items and Auction House would be impossible, or at least would require insane amount of work. On the other hand I recently activated EVE online 14d trial and this game has "buyer auction house", which I consider very cool idea.
But in the end, all I would like to see is working economy which would require not too much of an effort make deals in. And I am not sure if D2 player generated economy can be referred to as it has been based on ... dupes.
jrichard
29-06-2008, 17:51
Don't neglect the satisfaction of making a good trade, which in an AH where prices are settled will be impossible.
I take it you've never played WoW? Playing the auction house is still considered one of the quicker ways to make gold. It doesn't fix prices as they vary quite a bit day to day. There's still a trade channel and lots of items and services are bought and sold there. *Gasp* It's just different than what d2 players are used to and that seems to be a major problem for many of the current players judging from a bunch of posts on the d3 forums here.
I take it you've never played WoW? Playing the auction house is still considered one of the quicker ways to make gold. It doesn't fix prices as they vary quite a bit day to day. There's still a trade channel and lots of items and services are bought and sold there. *Gasp* It's just different than what d2 players are used to and that seems to be a major problem for many of the current players judging from a bunch of posts on the d3 forums here.
Yeah I tanked Illidan, so I know WoW. What I mean by a good trade is not ripping someone off. Its finding what you seek and providing the seller with a price he accepts. Many times this has turned into a chat and a new guy on the friendlist. Also bringing in mules to further exchange items and haggle and barter each other.
WoW has it's gold and thats that. DII has multiple currencies all valid and interchangeable. True DII gold doesn't hold value, but Perfect Gems do, they are the low currency, after that it becomes Runes and Jewels. It's working well infact.
A critiscicm of dealing with the people that play the game is really not fair to the game.
Rashiminos
29-06-2008, 23:42
D2 trading involves a lot of counterfeit currency...
ChosenHell
30-06-2008, 01:31
Does anybody have any information regarding trading system?
What I would like to see is some kind of Aution House and stable currency with real worth, like in WOW.
If I have to find EVERYTHING myself or barter all the time it will be really disappointing.
Having an Auction house combined with a currency will probably create more problems than its worth for D3. 3rd party gold selling sites. Unbelievable inflation cost of items. Then Blizzard would haft to implement gold sinks into the game among other things as well.
Most likely you will purchase something from the gold famers off the auction house like you can currently do in WoW now.
c-ya
Dark_Shadow
30-06-2008, 16:52
I have just one thing to say about some of the comments here: If D3 is going to borrow any gameplay strategies from WoW, I will likely not be returning to Battle.Net. I hated WoW (so crucify me, apparently). I want D3 to be DIABLO, not WARCRAFT. No auction houses, please. Sure, I'm game for making gold actually worth something other than mercenary ressurections.
My 3 cents.
zzzackkk
30-06-2008, 17:32
I was so worried that they were going to do something completely different with D3. After seeing the in-game videos I'm extremely relieved and am glad with all of the changes they have made. They didn't just make the same game with new items and characters, but yet they also didn't ruin what we all loved about Diablo.
I think it would be pretty hard for them to incorporate a value system or even an auction house type thing because Diablo is setup as instances.
PatMaGroin
01-07-2008, 05:02
Yeah I tanked Illidan, so I know WoW. What I mean by a good trade is not ripping someone off. Its finding what you seek and providing the seller with a price he accepts. Many times this has turned into a chat and a new guy on the friendlist. Also bringing in mules to further exchange items and haggle and barter each other.
WoW has it's gold and thats that. DII has multiple currencies all valid and interchangeable. True DII gold doesn't hold value, but Perfect Gems do, they are the low currency, after that it becomes Runes and Jewels. It's working well infact.
A critiscicm of dealing with the people that play the game is really not fair to the game.
I've healed everything up to Felmyst in Sunwell, and I've had either 3 or 4 level 90+ characters in D2, so I know both.
It seems like you're trying to tell us that using gems and runes is somehow better than using actual currency. If it was better, we would use it in society, and not just D2 where gold is useless.
You say that the trading game in Diablo 2 leads to a friend on the friends list, and that might happen at times, but more often than not it leads to acronyms and flames.
If you need to buy an occulus, and someone is selling one for 1 Herald of Zak, and someone else is selling one for 1 Buriza, which is the better deal?
What if, instead, someone was selling an occulus for 200g, and someone else was selling for 180g? You can still barter with the higher offer to see if he'll come down, and you both know exactly what you're getting.
D2 trading involves a lot of counterfeit currency...
If you let the dupers rule the game then it matters not what system they implement, simple as that.
I've healed everything up to Felmyst in Sunwell, and I've had either 3 or 4 level 90+ characters in D2, so I know both.
It seems like you're trying to tell us that using gems and runes is somehow better than using actual currency. If it was better, we would use it in society, and not just D2 where gold is useless.
You say that the trading game in Diablo 2 leads to a friend on the friends list, and that might happen at times, but more often than not it leads to acronyms and flames.
If you need to buy an occulus, and someone is selling one for 1 Herald of Zak, and someone else is selling one for 1 Buriza, which is the better deal?
What if, instead, someone was selling an occulus for 200g, and someone else was selling for 180g? You can still barter with the higher offer to see if he'll come down, and you both know exactly what you're getting.
Gold is utterly boring, and the Illidan remark wasn't an invite to be overdone, it was a reply to a guy who claimed I must never have played WoW. At the end of the day we disagree, i'd rather find the good barter than go put another 20 gold in the bank, and write to Blizzard that I should get interest because so it is in real life and it's much more efficient and we play this game to make it as if we are simulating the Dow Jones index.
etslayer
01-07-2008, 17:58
For me the best part of D2 was bartering and haggling people. If they take this away from us, it would seriously fizzle my excitement about the game.
People complain that the D2 trading system just threw you out on your own and made you find potential traders on your own and barter with them. Frankley, I loved this because it's realistic and allows you to make friends through trade, and have detailed bargains which you simply can't do with auction houses.
Also, I think it's clear that gold will not be worth much in D3 considering the sell value on the items in the demo. I have mentioned this in another thread, and I will be mentioning again.
Also, it's not like D2 didn't do anything to organize trade... there were different trading channels for every character class.
Auction houses are obviously more convenient for simple and quick trades, but I believe they remove all the fun from trading.
jrichard
01-07-2008, 18:09
Gold is utterly boring, and the Illidan remark wasn't an invite to be overdone, it was a reply to a guy who claimed I must never have played WoW.
Such a claim was never made, read it again. A question was asked. you can choose to take offense at it if you want, but don't try to justify it by saying i made a claim.
The question was asked simply due to neither myself nor anyone i know in wow finding prices to be "settled" on the AH. Every day there are things sold way under what they could bring as well as for way more than what they do bring. Finding a good deal there happens all the time. Now, if it's simply not to your taste, fine. But trying to claim prices are set or settled is ridiculous
ColtFourFive
01-07-2008, 23:22
I believe this has already been said, but I would just like to remind everyone that Blizzard knows how to make sequels to games. I remember the first time I found out Warcraft 3 had heroes in it, I went apesh*t. I, along with other die-hard warcraft 2 fans, was convinced that Blizzard was completely ruining a perfectly good game. Then WC3 blows me away and I become an addict right when I start playing.
They stated that they wanted to revolutionize not only the game, but redefine the action RPG genre. In other words, Diablo 3 will be a whole new monster. I expect to see a LOT of changes, and I'm particularly excited to see what they do with the random environment/mobs (cause I nearly cried myself to sleep when I discovered how much Hellgate: London botched it).
Anyways, I'm very surprised at how crazed people are getting about trading and an AH and such. I mean, this isn't a d2 patch, so I'm more interested in the changes in gameplay/mechanics/party setup/skills/characters/everything else.
Whatever the trading situation will be, it is going to work. I personally believe that there will be an AH, that there will be no BoE or BoP, and that the speed mfing potential will be greatly reduced, but thats just me.
If you play a game or stop playing a game because of the economy, then clearly you dont have the mindset of an action RPG gamer :-D
I think Diablo's barter system is a very important part of the game for a lot of people. However, trading in Diablo can definitely use some improvements.
I suggest a system of centralized remote trading. Kind of like an auction house, but for item-for-item bidding.
First, give us a central place where items can be put up for trade. The items are listed, and sellers can put up a short one-liner description of what he's looking for. Player interest in any of the listed items can make offers by the old D2 player-to-player trade method. Clicking Bid brings up a trade window, put in all the items you want to offer for the advertised item, and click OK. All the offered items are then taken from the user's inventory.
After the selling player logs back on, he can then check all the offers he's gotten in his mailbox, each displayed as a trade window. When he finds an offer he's satisfied with, he can click OK, and the trade is made. The advertised item would then go to the mailbox of the player he took the offer from. All the rest of the offers that were not accepted would go back to the mailboxes of the players than made the offers.
This way, we can still keep the barter economy of Diablo but offer players who rather not spend too much time trading some extra convenience. All we need would be a mailbox system(needed anyway), and an NPC in town providing the service.
I think we definitely need the function of listing items in chat though. Just like in WoW, where you can list items in chat and other players can just click the name to get a small pop-up window of the item description/stats.
clowninmypants
02-07-2008, 18:16
I'll agree that D2's trading system is flawed, but I always enjoyed meeting up with other players and showing off gear. It's much more interesting than the AH in WOW and I feel it makes the game more challenging. If I wanted a Windforce, I had to find items of equivalent value and trade for it. It definitely keeps you invested in the game.
I've healed everything up to Felmyst in Sunwell, and I've had either 3 or 4 level 90+ characters in D2, so I know both.
It seems like you're trying to tell us that using gems and runes is somehow better than using actual currency. If it was better, we would use it in society, and not just D2 where gold is useless.
You say that the trading game in Diablo 2 leads to a friend on the friends list, and that might happen at times, but more often than not it leads to acronyms and flames.
If you need to buy an occulus, and someone is selling one for 1 Herald of Zak, and someone else is selling one for 1 Buriza, which is the better deal?
What if, instead, someone was selling an occulus for 200g, and someone else was selling for 180g? You can still barter with the higher offer to see if he'll come down, and you both know exactly what you're getting.
that is an impressive post in terms of bad logic.
first of all: we use money because they go in your pocket, where cows dont, aside from about 100 other reasons, such as the lack of decay, 3rd party value etc.
in wow gold is about as useful as in diablo. you cant get anything good for it, but you can repair and it can save you some grinding of simple items.
you all forget one simple thing; the basics of economy.
the reason people trade in runes and pgems is because -they are useful as they are-. gold isnt. gold doesnt get you anything good in either game, but in diablo runes makes the most powerful items in the game, and gems make the most powerful charms in the game. thats why that currency works. no stable currency could ever be created with gold unless gold can actually bring you the best items in the game -undependant of trading it for something else-.
if gamble was more effective, then gold would be a good source. if you could reroll charms with it or gamble for runes with it, it would be a viable currency. as long as it is useless in itself, it wont ever happen, cus unlike the real world, the benefit of it being small and easily transferrable doesnt really cut it in a video game.
if gold can not be used to roll the real goodies in game, then i would prefer a d2 trading system heavily improved. first of all i dont want to see O x N x games in public, i want something easier than a trade window, id prefer a heavily increased stash size, possibly upgradable (like in wow), id also greatly prefer an "account stash" as in titan quest for example, a separate stash that all your characters on that account can access. if gamemechanics like that would improve, id be ever so glad to keep the d2 trading system.
PatMaGroin
02-07-2008, 23:48
in wow gold is about as useful as in diablo. you cant get anything good for it, but you can repair and it can save you some grinding of simple items.
This could not be further from the truth. WoW gold = epic flying mount, which is what most people grind for. The trick is to make the gold worth something in game. Repairs get expensive, when I was actively raiding, I barely had enough gold to repair for the week, not even counting buying consumables.
If Blizzard makes it so that gold is actually worth something in game, that makes this whole discussion null. If you can get something for your gold, people will trade for it. If you cant, like in D2, they won't. End of story.
I see both sides of the argument, AH or D2 style
good way to solve this problem is NO set currency but make an auction house
also no uniques/rares in the AH. So if you want to do a quick trade for a rune or a socketable item or something like that just scan the AH offer something( should be possible to bid on something with various "packages" of items. for example: i want rune X i bid on it with package 1, and package 2, P1 is 100 gold+magic armour, P2 is Rune Y. The player with Rune X gets a message in his AH window and can scan my packages and choose one or deny both)
BUT for rares and uniques you have to go scouting around :)
so it isnt really "Buy for 100 gold" but also not the total " O? N? lol? noob! FU"
system.
Hope you get what i mean :D
CombatShrine
03-07-2008, 22:56
PatMaGroin is correct. The gold currency in Diablo 2 has very weak backing.
Look at various currencies in the world. Many have gold-backed currency. That is, you can take your money notes, bring them to the government treasury, and they will give you the monetary equivalent in gold of the note. In United States, we have no gold standard; you simply have the U.S. government's promise that your $1 bill will get you exactly $1 worth of goods and services. In short, there exists SOMETHING that makes your paper and coin money worth what it is.
In order to make any currency useful, it has to be backed. In WoW, the backing is the high cost of a very useful item: the epic mount. In addition, one can rollback skills with it. Because of this, a demand for gold is created, giving it worth.
Diablo 2 could easily fix the gold-worthless problem by putting in various methods of backing, including, but not limited to:
1. greatly increase the payoff on gambling
2. greatly increase the quality of items that can be bought at shops (including rares, uniques, and sets, albeit at stiff premiums.)
3. If possible, cube recipes that require gold.
4. A new world event that requires gold.
5. Create certain powerful items that can only be purchased or obtained with gold; not traded or found.
In any case, D3 definitely needs a stable, backed currency that can be carried in large supply. The lack of a liquid, stable, compact currency denomination in diablo2 is the cause of much headache. Yes, there are runes and pgems. However, runes still require bartering, since the buyer of your rune must actually NEED that rune, or else he's not going to trade for it. If you had money instead, he would just sell the item instead, knowing he can take the money and turn around and buy the rune(s) he actually needs. Much more efficient.
Just by 2 pgems.
Frank_the_tank
03-07-2008, 23:17
I'm for gold as currency in Diablo 3. Added to the above suggestions could also be:
- A fee for respeccs and skills.
- Some very rare item vendors as scripted events (save him from a beast and u get to see his goods etc).
- A fee for entering all cities for the first time, on all difficulty levels (higher fee as you advance).
- Since we got the new health stone(?) drops, potions can be made more expensive. Potions will still most likely be wanted by duelers and the likes.
etc..
Let us not get a auction house tho, that would be the end of all things.
Totalpain
04-07-2008, 00:55
Hmm...Just as a starting note, the trading systems in DiabloII and World of Warcraft are significantly different. First of all, the only method of trading in D1/D2 was to either create a game with a short description alluring to trading,such as : X item FT, or there was even games that solely had the name of "Tradin". Either way, you would have to eventually meet up character to character, open up a trade screen and exchange your phat loots.
In World of Warcraft however, the auction house is a place you can visit in the game itself and you can always trade via the trade box method and contact other people ,or, you can simply go check out the Auction House, buy the offered loot, and receive it in your mailbox a couple of seconds later.
Having trading experience in games I can say that D3 will probably not have an steady AH, but then again I do not hope that the trading system will stay the same as it has been in D2.
Maybe a good compromise with the AH/ Pure Trading/Bartering debate could be made with implementations in Battle.net 2.0 or (heck, maybe implement it as a whole module in the UI so that you woudn't even have to leave your game to go check out deals). As d2 players know, and this is more true before the diablo2 playerbase started slowly decreasing (So i'm talking about v0.8-1.1), there were designated channels labeled "Trade"(Still exist, but are often a lot less populated!) which you could enter and either post your trade/ what you want and what you are willing to trade for it.
Now, the channels were limited to only 40 people, and back in the day there it was not uncommon to wait for lenghty amounts of time and fight to get a spot in one of the -1/-2 channels( because it was usually labeled DII Trading-1 or -2/-3, etc.). This was good and bad. Good in the sense that,well, you could use a channel that was solely devoted to trading items and looking up fresh deals from newly found items. Bad? Well there was a lot of bad... Honestly, you had to read, and read FAST.
How fast? Well picture the trade channel being able to hold only 20 lines of text per page at a time and 40 people spamming it (spamming even to the point where you/they would get disconnected from the server for overspamming) with 4-5 line messages every time at least 2-3 times on every spam. This made it really annoying and hard to follow, plus all your whispers and personal talk was part of the channel, that is, the text was interwoven with regular chat from the trade chat, which often made it annoying to scroll back up and read what a person would have offered you.
Perhaps a good compromise would be the inclusion of a "fake" AH, a channel or place on battle.net 2.0 where you could input what items to trade, and give a small description to what you would like to receive for the item. You could search for a given item's name and then receive a dropdown-type menu of people/character names which you could contact via whisper or any other method.
In this "Fake AH", you could search for what you want to buy appear with the item for trade, and each item would have it's own specifics: I.E. Some items in D2 had different enhanced damage %'s... and the seller could also input a tidbit of info next to his item, and then the buyer would just whisper that person and get a deal going.
Ex:
Bloodletter Gladius (with the unique letter coloring)
Seller: Mr Smith
Item specifics: (Item link)
Seller information: (would like sorc gear or some nice runes)
That's the kind of format that I was thinking of.
Regarding Currency, another hot and important issue, I sure do hope the Dev. Team has come up with a solution...Runes,charms,jewels, and uniques were often the prime/top tradables in D1/D2. Now, yes, most of these were hacked, duped, etc...But, they were in a sense the quickest and most efficient way to buy items. Most traded charms as I recall with value were the 290's, and the 3/20/20's which came a bit later, and soj's were the most popular at the very beginning if I recall correctly. (Not to mention runes of course, from grades ranging from um+ usually.)
Now that there is no "Tetris-based" inventory, as seen clearly from the gameplay video,(as most of us fans call it), I'm getting worried that most of these "tradable currency items" are going to be extinct in D3. Why? Well... I don't think charms will be implemented anymore, since they all had different sizes and bonuses to your characters and since there is no typical "Item-inventory size", small,medium and large 3-space charms will probably cease to exist(or will be replaced by only one type of charm, or perhaps you shall be limited to only a certain number, etc.). One of the questions at the WWI was if there was going to be runes or runewords, and I read somewhere that the host did not offer any comment or answer to this question. So if runes and charms and possibly jewels are out of the way, exactly what is left?!!?
The worthlessness of gold (because honestly, I don't think gold will be used to trade, just like in D1/D2), the lack of tradable items that have a market value/worth that can be readily exchanged for uniques or other items, and many other things that the poor Dev. team will have to face in the upcoming months/years, unless they have already pre-planned solutions to solve these problems.
Anyway's thats my two cents.
Just food for thought here, but given that D3 will likely have very large realms with lots and lots of people on it, as well as massive loads of loot with varrying stats, can you guys just imagine how many items would be in an auction house per realm? I don't even want to imagine it, because I think we'd be talking about millions of items. Every person would throw all their crap on the auction house and it would be a bloated and slow system. That's not to say I'm against an auction house. I just don't know if it's realistic.
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