I hate the witch doctor

[Zarniwoop]

I don't know if anyone is like me, but I just was really underwhelmed by the witch doctor.

First, I don't really want to play a class hunched over like an ape dragging his knuckles. But, secondly, he's just really underwhelming compared to the barbarian's completely over the top effects. I you cannot match that stunning performance with another class, you need to get rid of that class or rework it. Seriously, it was like seeing the Toronto Space Needle next to a barn silo.

Second, as a person that has played necromancer for several ladders in a row as my main, I hate the witch doctor. I loved my pets. I loved my UNDEAD pets. I realize they are lag central when you have 30. But, they could easily just make them bigger, and stronger and fewer. Give them multiple attacks on surrounding mobs as they level. Ditto the skeletal mages. Allow me one revive summon that turns into a horrible, massive beast with crushing blow and AE stun that lasts only 15 seconds or something.

I was really excited about the barbarian, then this waddling disaster came out and I was like... "are they kidding?". THIS is the new necromancer? Witch doctor sounds like a guy that failed the necromancer final exam.

I'm reasonably excited about the game, but reasonably disheartened about the loss of necromancers. That's my play style. I will try to adjust to something else, but just looking at the thing was irritating.

If anyone from Blizzard reads this by some chance, please reconsider.

[LucianDK]

The Witch Doctor have me excited to play them. They are much more unique and interesting that the overdone necromancer stereotype from so many other rpgs. I think their flavor is much more in line with the Kurast jungles, where the Necromancers supposedly came from.

[Lyrs]

I can't say that I hate it, but it's not as "spectacular" as the Barbarian. I will withhold my judgment however. The Witch Doctor had showed potential.

Now if only we'll get a Mesmer class...

[LucianDK]

I can't say that I hate it, but it's not as "spectacular" as the Barbarian. I will withhold my judgment however. The Witch Doctor had showed potential.

Now if only we'll get a Mesmer class...

Isn't it mesmery to curse foes to attack their fellows? The Mesmer in GW would have cried and begged for such a mind control spell.

But it wouldn't suprise me if the Witch Doctor will be able to brew zombie juice to enslave monsters with for a limited time.

[Voorhees]

They look kind of numb, I'll agree with that. Other than that I am kind of intrigued by them.
Obviously, from what we've seen, the witch doctor draws automatic comparison to the current necro. Summons and curse like spells. The two things that stood out to me as potentially awesome was the ability to sort of buff your own summons with your damage spells. Could be cool, might not be as cool as it looks, we'll see. The ability to pop your own pets really excites me. Depending on how powerful this is, it could easily be one of the most powerful abilities in the game, perhaps even useful in pvp, and would be a real boon to anyone playing untwinked. No longer do you have to wait for a creature to die to start popping everything, now you can pop your own re-summonable pets? Good lord.

[Es Mors]

I really found the witch doctor intriguing. The only critisism I can think of is the locust swarm animation. The barbarian on the other hand was just the same old, IMO. At least the witch doctor is something new :yes:

[etslayer]

The witch doctor is just Dhalsim with a mask. I think Blizzard should pay Capcom royalties :P

http://www.meloncorp.com/arch/0037/zangief_dhalsim.png

[Zarniwoop]

Yes, it's something new. And it was so lackluster it was shocking.

It summons dogs? And it gives them rabies? And it throws slow, unimpressive fire blobs?

I'm probably just bitter. I could not possibly play that hunched little wretch.

[nicro tower]

The barbarian was over-the top crazy flashy special effects... this guy is kinda bleh...
at least make him look like a person, or have minions that dont look like some kind of demented dogs...

[sirwhere]

witch-doctors are gonna pwnz joo in pvp. just wait till i get my hands on one of them :)

[Pied]

The only problem I had with the witch doctor is that he doesnt look so human, more like a troll or something....

And another thing that annoyed me was the zombie-like-wall-spell, maybe the idea of a attacking wall is kinda nice, but why would those zombies stand perfectly in line and not move at all? not very logical to me....

To be clear, I'm really really excited about D3, but those are just some minor annoyances that crossed my mind.

[prion]

its cuz they're stuck in the ground

i dunno i think the gameplay looks cool. and keep in mind we've only seen 6 skills.

reminds me a little of the conjuror in Nox which was the only class I beat the game with

[Mad Mantis]

First, I don't really want to play a class hunched over like an ape dragging his knuckles. But, secondly, he's just really underwhelming compared to the barbarian's completely over the top effects.

I'll have to concur with that. I like the Necro and the WD looks like he'll support that kind of play style so that makes him good enough as a class.

The animations are indeed underwhelming. The hunched over walk worked for Troll Shamans in WC, but it doesn't work that well for a human. Apart from the Zombie Wall the other skills didn't have impressive visuals. A puff of smoke for blowing up the Mongrel instead of a decent gory explosion. Locust Swarm looks like a bunch of leaves with neon lights.



The ability to pop your own pets really excites me. Depending on how powerful this is, it could easily be one of the most powerful abilities in the game, perhaps even useful in pvp, and would be a real boon to anyone playing untwinked.

You can make FG explode in DII. It does a measily 100 physical damage and 100 fire damage.

[syndrohm]

its cuz they're stuck in the ground

i dunno i think the gameplay looks cool. and keep in mind we've only seen 6 skills.

reminds me a little of the conjuror in Nox which was the only class I beat the game with

Hit the nail on the head, I too was disappointed with some of the Witch doctor skills displayed but I also realized that they displayed a tiny bit of the skills that will be available to both classes. Think about all the skills available to the classes in D2. There are plenty of skills you dont use and even entire skill trees you dont touch.

[CaptainDingo]

Blizzard won't reconsider the Witch Doctor because there's nothing wrong with the class. Also, the Witch Doctor DOES look like a person. Go to the website and look at the Witch Doctor page. How does he not look human to you? You do realize he was wearing a big tribal mask in the gameplay demo, correct?

Mostly I'm shocked we've actually got people demanding that everyone be some straight-standing spectacularly over the top guy that flings ragdolls and makes blood fly. Do you really want EVERY class to be the same? The Witch Doctor's attacks thus far have far more "oomph" than anything the Necromancer had. What was his most kinetic attack, the bone spear maybe?

Lastly, the fact that we're judging the entire class based on like... 4 spells, is ludicrous. Everyone complaining is basically acting like they know for a fact this guy won't summon any undead minions. You did see the zombie wall, right? So he CAN summon undead. Just wait and at least see what they're doing with it before you huff and puff.

You guys (as in everyone who's flinging their noses up in the air and is sickened that Blizzard would dare replace the Necromancer with a more versatile class) jump the gun and are way too butthurt over something just because it's different from what you know. If you want Diablo II, go play Diablo II. I want Diablo III however, and I don't want some outbursts from a loud minority to ruin anything this game is trying to make.

We've even got people making threads saying Blizzard should make the game less colorful. *Headdesk* Nevermind just turning down your monitor saturation, they want the color to be gone for everyone.

[LucianDK]

Well said CaptainDingo. This is D3, not D2. Its a new game. And the Witch Doctor is a refreshing and unique class, instead of using popularized archetypes which have been done to death in so many other games.

Trust blizzard to innovate.

[Mad Mantis]

If you want Diablo II, go play Diablo II. I want Diablo III however, and I don't want some outbursts from a loud minority to ruin anything this game is trying to make.

Who said anything about wanting DII? Just because there are some resevervations regarding a single character class suddenly every one who is not over the moon wants nothing else than DII.1? Not only that, but those who do not like the hunched over look are apparently going to ruin every thing that DIII brings because of it?

[Dark_Times]

I also really like the witch doctor so far. Seems just as good as the old necro to me.

Some of you are disappointed in not getting the necro I guess. I'd feel the same way if it was the Barb who was left out.

[Zarniwoop]

You guys have to understand. Blizzard didn't keep the good ones back.

I work in the game industry. When you create a big fuss and you put your product out there, you are not going to show them the meager skills. You give it the best 20 minutes you can produce without giving the game away.

I will bet my house that if you asked Blizzard about the witch doctor off record and you worked there, they'd tell you that it's not quite up to snuff.

Barbarian was just astoundingly well done. Most of the classes in D2 were impressive on some level to about the same degree (if you took large pools of opinion).

That was the best they had for WD. It wasn't good.

[KamikazeDreamer]

There's a quote in one of the Q&A's about how the WD doesn't eliminate the possibility of having a necro in D3.

[Fugu_]: Witch doctor = spiritual successor to the necromancer?
[Fugu_]: ...No
[-- maltize has quit (Read error: EOF from client)
[Fugu_]: Thought about improving Necromancer, really cool class.
[Fugu_]: Witch Doctor would not prohibit making a necromancer.

from here http://www.diabloii.net/n/668039/diablo-qampa-diinet-transcript

so... all speculations about WD being the necro go against what Blizzard themselves say they are trying to do. It's unclear to me with the few spells shown just how close they are. Obviously the fire bomb spell is closer to an Assassin skill than a necro skill, the one with the bugs seems to work like similar to chain lightning from sorcs. So, it's clearly not just a simple implant of a necro into a different suit, it's something altogether new, and apparently it's creation doesn't guarantee the exclusion of the necro. But I guess people love to speculate.

[Es Mors]

Seems like the witch doctor will be a love or hate thing. All I can say is that I think he/she is great and I liked heimr even more than I liked the barbarian. It's just a matter of taste, I guess.



But common people... ZOMBIE WALL! :alright:

[kontankarite]

Hey, here's an amazing idea. A NECROMANCER that can do Zombie Wall.

Druid was an amazing class on its own. The Necromancer is a FAVORITE amongst everyone.

When you try to fuse them both together, you create EPIC FAIL.

What I'm seeing is a guy who can control undeath in a direct sort of way with animal summons. deleted lame.

[Telzen]

Man the Witch Doctor looked amazing to me. Looked better than the barb imo. Can't wait to play one.

[lumpor]

I agree to captaindingo. Don't you want the game to be fresh? Do you just want them to take the classes from old games? What if they only had the warrior, rogue and sorceror in d2? Would that be fun?
I like the witch doctor, and I don't want the necro to come back. I think the wd is a good replacement. It's more versatile and not so limited. And the wd probably CAN summon the undead. We've only seen a single summon and you think all his summons lok like mongrels? I think the animations were okay. Even locust swarm. It looked like bugs.

I'm a bit tired of necromancers. Even though it was my favorite class in d2, I still think it's just so stiff. There were no dramatic effects. Look at the bone spirit, the ultimate bone spell. Was that animation any good? I'm just glad the new one is fresh and all. I'm satisfied with the witch doctor.

The barbs animations were a tiny bit better yes, but the wd's animations were still awesome (especially horrify)

[etslayer]

Don't you want the game to be fresh? Do you just want them to take the classes from old games?

They can bring back the same character with a completely new skill set. This is not repetitive. People love the necro, and he's a perfect character for the diablo series.

here were no dramatic effects. Look at the bone spirit, the ultimate bone spell. Was that animation any good?

Obviously if they were to bring back these spells they would improve the graphics.

[Zarniwoop]

You could make a necromancer fresh.

Those dogs could be tiny skeletons that get bigger and bigger with every point.

You could combine a ton of points and summon a single undead dragon.

There's almost an endless list of things you could do that are fresh.

And you wouldn't be some voodoo junky in the back of a van.

[Kiroptus]

Of all the classes in D2, the necromancer was the most original in terms of gameplay. All the other classes were very run-of-the-mill in RPGs. Mage, Archer, Knight and Warrior. The necromancer had much more interesting tricks on his sleeve rather than raw damage.


He had manipulation, summons and could dish out great damage. Barbarians on the other hand were a chore to play until you get WW. In the class design chat they said how a skill that passivally ads +2 ou +3% crit chance was too boring. Which was pretty much what the D2 barb was, full of passives, boring one hit attacks. Hell... even the shouts are pretty much passive effects that have to be applied again and again. Only WW was the thing that stood out from him. I never liked the barb because I dont like rushing, and playing through lv 1 to 29 untwiked was amazingly boring.

If the barb, the most item depentent, full of boring passives class and very few fun skills was updated to the D3 barb, which gameplay is now beautiful to behold, full of action, movements, leaps, strong and cool attacks, etc... I cant see how the necromancer himself couldnt get his own update. Of all classes he was the one who really stand out in terms of being diferent.

And no, the WD isnt the update, some of the necro's concepts were transfered to the WD, but he isnt the necromancer. I dont think its cool to receive the WD so badly, maybe I will like him but I cant see why the most original and diferent character was axed and returning only with a fraction of its former concept.

[kontankarite]

That's what I'm getting at. It looks as though the WD is a fusion of Druid and Necro.

They ****ed up with the Mongrel. Last thing I'd want to see is some summoned wolf attacking over my zombie wall.

Screw the WD. You want to make a new class, great. But if so, then make something entirely new, don't go slicing perfectly good classes from D2 in half and mixing them together like it's going to be okay.

I'm waiting for them to do something uber lame with the WD like have one of its summons be something like Void Walker or a pack of snakes.

Necromancers are the masters of the undead. Essentially, a voodoo priest covered in a grass skirt can't measure up to the same kind of undead mastery as the Necro. So how about keep the WD and take all the Necro related stuff out of it.

I'd rather see a WD with the ability to manipulate crowds with voodoo dolls, a mastery of alchemy, and plagues. Now that would be sweet.

But all it looks like so far is a fire mage, with limited undead skills, and a huge focus on nature related plagues. He's the /b/stard child of the love triangle known as sorc, necro, and druid and his junk looks to be properly cut off.

[SmittySixTen]

I'm amazed at how upset people are getting over this. It's clear that the Witch Doctor is not done yet. From what I saw, those spells were more than likely early game skills. I really do not see them being end-game, so right now we basically got a taste of what the guy will be.

Everyone that has a problem with it can do one of two things:
1) Make your own game.

2) Don't buy Diablo III.

If you're not willing to do either of those, then wait until you actually get a chance to try the character before you have a hissy fit over it.

[Kiroptus]

If you're not willing to do either of those, then wait until you actually get a chance to try the character before you have a hissy fit over it.

The problem is that the WD came in a bad position, he came replacing the necro which is a big favourite of the community, if he was in his own position, not replacing anyone, he would be much more warmly received but the way he was introduced was just bad for the class itself.

It just left a bitter taste that such a bland class as the barbarian was brought back from D2 and got beatifully updated. Not only bought back, he basically IS the barb! He even got older from the 20 year hiatus. Lore-wise and class-wise he is there.

If we saw 2 completely new classes I think we would all move on, but if the barb was back why not the necromancer?

[kontankarite]

I fail to see where splicing 3 old classes into a "new" class is interesting. I think what's making people mad is that the WD is an overt rip off of a necro and a druid.

Those classes had their unique strengths. I guess we just don't feel it's a good idea to be splicing them together.

[Dark_Shadow]

I think I can agree with a few of the comments here - mainly that the WD's skill effects are mildly lack-luster in comparison to the Barbarian. However, there are two considerations to this.

The first is that in D2, the Barbarian's skill effects are possibly the least flashy of anything (perhaps with the exception of whirlwind *drools*); this could just be a way to pay back all the barb lovers out there for dealing with this fact.

The other consideration is that the barbarian is a --finely honed warrior--, and his attacks emphasize this. The witchdoctor's skills seem to be more raw and primal, and perhaps the animations are just trying to show this side of him off.
Also, after reading the info on the khazra, we find out that the Tengaze tribes were so warped and, if I may say so, de-evolved into a primal state - this may explain why he has the horrible crink in his back.

All in all, the skills (and animations) seem to fit the WD's background quite well.

[kontankarite]

No one is complaining about that. Everyone is complaining about the WD stealing cool from other classes.

I for one don't mind a perfectly unique and original character known as a WD. What I do mind is how this character blatantly borrows/steals all of its notoriety from several different and more interesting classes that's already been made.

[Goddess Belldandy]

the necromancer was my first love in diablo2. So i am having a hard time biting the bullet as well.

However, let's face it, if the necro does come it wont be until the expansion. or he is just gone forever, and his spirit lives on in the witch doctor. since the witch doctor has a ton of skills similar to that of the necromancer.

i am sure we can grow to like him,,hopefully.

but you are right, it's hard to replace the pale guy with a mullet and gothic armor. truly an idol of the diablo series...

[Dark_Shadow]

Hmmm...

I don't think of it as "stealing cool" from other classes. It's more like stealing animations than anything. I think we need to stop looking at it from the D2-necromancer point of view. He's not using "curses", and he's not "summoning undead." He's also not "summoning wolves" like the druid, and he's not throwing "firebombs" like the assassin. Instead, he is evoking spirits of terror and confusion to arrest the minds of his victoms. He's summoning a deranged, canine-ESQUE -demon-, not a woodland wolf. He's hurling what seem to be vials imbued with a spirit of fire.

So, don't look at it as stealing from "more interesting classes." It seems Blizzard is just using some animation styles from the other classes. Keep in mind - what we see may not be what we're going to get. If it is, however, I don't think there will be a Necromancer. And if there's no Necromancer, the WD will keep him in our hearts.

[Kiroptus]

It would be insanely cool to see a 3D necro wearing a dark set of armor(or a robe) and a goat skull as a bone helm, like the hexen II skull wizards:

http://hexen2.ravengames.com/images/bestiary/hexen2-bestiary_wizard.gif

But I guess that wont happen.

[kontankarite]

the necromancer was my first love in diablo2. So i am having a hard time biting the bullet as well.

However, let's face it, if the necro does come it wont be until the expansion. or he is just gone forever, and his spirit lives on in the witch doctor. since the witch doctor has a ton of skills similar to that of the necromancer.

i am sure we can grow to like him,,hopefully.

but you are right, it's hard to replace the pale guy with a mullet and gothic armor. truly an idol of the diablo series...

I'm sorry but there is no way the WD can fill the Necromancer's shoes.

They said the WD wasn't a replacement of the Necro. Fine. But being that the WD is basically a Necro/Druid poseur, we can assume that even though the necro isn't replaced, we'll have to continue playing D2 to even get some REAL Necro action.

Undead mastery is the domain of the Necromancer. So this grass wearing jungle man wanna be is going to have to sit the hell down and let the REAL masters of the undead do their work.

You'd think Blizzard would have been more thoughtful of the WD character borrowing any semblance of cool from the Necromancer. Zombie wall... pffft. That's the business of the necromancer, not some cracked out, grass wearing, jungle hobo.

[Kiroptus]

Lets not hate the WD all that much. I am quite sure that many talented concept designers and the game designers sat and discussed and made many sketches and concept arts to reach the WD and I dont think its cool to trash the creative work of someone like that. I found him cool and all but I agree that the necromancer would handle that zombie wall a lot better.


I like the concept of the WD I just dont like the removal of the necromancer, its like taking out what really standed out in terms of originality in Diablo 2 because the rest of the class was there to fill generic roles and generic roles are staple of games that require tank, healers, etc... the ARPG oriented gameplay of diablo can open possibilities to so much originality that those generic classes just feel that they could use some spice up, like how the barb had.

Maybe there is still hope for the WD to be liked by us, necromancer fans. The necromancer's element was "bone". If the wd is "cursed flesh" like that zombie wall points out, and he has the power to evoke hordes of dark colored cursed zombies, then it I think it will be pretty cool. Spirit stuff like can also be used by his shamanistic powers and all.

But yeah, the necro will be missed either way.

[prion]

Everyone is complaining about the WD stealing cool from other classes.


no, not "everyone"...

[kontankarite]

Well, the necro was more bone and poison.

I have NO QUALMS with the witchdoc being more zombie and fire with an emphasis on mind control.

But what we DO NOT NEED is a necro/druid/fire sorc fusion. That's not original at all.

The mongrel does not leave one with a feeling of reassurance. Unless I saw it wrong, it actually looked more like a small DOG (druid) with rabies. I have no problem with it being some form of zombie dog.

The thing with the Necros was that the summons it had was Golems, skellies, and revives. It also had mastery over bone and poison with curses.

I want a NECROMANCER in Diablo 2. I don't care what you call it. I just want a guy who has the ability to stay more or less, strictly undead mastery related.

If that means the witchdoctor has all kinds of zombie-like capabilities with abilities to buff the zombies, then hell yes, I'm game.

[SmittySixTen]

The problem is that the WD came in a bad position, he came replacing the necro which is a big favourite of the community, if he was in his own position, not replacing anyone, he would be much more warmly received but the way he was introduced was just bad for the class itself.

Here's the problem as I see it.

Everyone is working under HUGE assumptions. Firstly, we don't know what the other three classes are, or what the eventual expansion classes will be (there are always expansion classes).

Secondly, no one has played the Witch Doctor, and we have only seen a fraction of the character's ability. People could very easily be surprised with how much they like it.

People need to get their panties out of a bunch and just get excited about the game. I never would have thought that there would be so much belly aching over possibly one of the biggest announcements in video gaming history. It's like some people aren't happy until they have something to be unhappy about.

[Kiroptus]

Everyone is happy about the D3 announcement, this is quite a minor issue compared to the whole package of awesomeness that is the D3 announcement.

But its a issue to be noted nonetheless, that a big favourite of the fanbase was partially merged into another class.

[Mad Mantis]

I can't say that I'm happy about loosing the Necromancer. Sure, he might come in an expansion on a later date, but in the release of the game he won't be present. The WD fills about the same role a Necro would have. With a guess of 5 character classes and the WD and Barb being two of them, it is unlikely that they would add another char that has the same basic role as the WD.

Does the fact that I like the Necro and would have loved to see him return mean that I'm against any for of advancement for the series? No, it does not. All it means is that I like the visuals, style and play style of a certain character class and would have loved to see him return. It's no biggie, I'll get over the loss and will probably love this game and the replacement class.

Am I entirely unhappy with the WD? No, I’m not. I think he can be great fun to play and a voodoo witch doctor has some great potential. There really are some great skills possible. At the moment I'm just a bit under whelmed with the animations that we have seen so far. Does that mean that all the animations will be that way, or that they won't change the ones I'm unhappy about? I can't say. The only thing I can comment on is what I have seen so far. Until Blizz releases more info, what we have now is all I can realistically comment on.


cracked out, grass wearing, jungle hobo.

That was funny. I might use it in my sig.

[Flux]

I'm sorry but there is no way the WD can fill the Necromancer's shoes.

I'm pretty sure WDs don't wear shoes.

Also, he's clearly a necro rip off -- one undead dog summoning (which lead to corpse explosions) does not a druid rip off make? If they were skeletal dogs would he be more necro-rific?

On the larger point, we don't have forum archives from 1999, but i can assure you that there were threads just like this back then, when the new characters were introduced, and we only knew their look and a short gameplay movie and about 5 skills. People hated the barbarian since he was just a big warrior too dumb to wear armor. People hated the necro since he was just a watered down sorcerer. People didn't like the paladin since he was no good solo and could was just an aura party guy. people didn't like the sorceress since she was just a sorcerer w/ a vagina. About the only one I don't recall complaints about was the amazon, and that was largely since she was the only one we knew about for like, a year.

It's fine to complain, but have some faith in bliz. they have made pretty fun chars in their games to date, and they're actually playing d3 every day and seeing if things are fun or not. They might know slightly more about the game than we do at this point. They've shown no lack of ability to make major changes when need be, and it's not as if they're contractually obligated to include the top half of a Flayer Shaman as a playable character. If they didn't like him and think he was cool, they wouldn't have him in the game.

[Es Mors]

The Necromancer is a FAVORITE amongst everyone.


Talk for yourself. Druid is my favourite, with necromancer coming second. You can guess that I find the blending of them into one character utterly awesome! :thumbsup:

But what we DO NOT NEED is a necro/druid/fire sorc fusion. That's not original at all.

Actualy, bringing back the necromancer similarly to what he is in Diablo 2 would be much more unoriginal, don't you think?

[Hello Jim]

"Actualy, bringing back the necromancer similarly to what he is in Diablo 2 would be much more unoriginal, don't you think?"

Agreed. I hoped they won't bring back any of the old chars/skills and was disappointed at the Barb, new and cool as it might be. The combination of 3 chars is interesting and it at least uses other spells, which won't be boring (like remaking the exact same skills from the Necro).

[Hideo]

I don't understand why some people say that Necro class is "limited" while WD is not.

Do we have bigger fantasy lore about undead and dark demonic forces or about voodoo? Which theme gives more potential coolness? Do you prefer demons and undead or a tribesman with a voodoo doll? Which theme fits dark style of Diablo more? Is Act 3 of D2 your favorite?

Necromancer has three main roles, as I see it:

1. Summoner

There are endless new ways of changing an improving it. Corpse disappearing is no problem at all. You can rework old minions and add new like ghosts. Add them special abilities. This could bring some RTS gameplay to boot.

2. Debuffer and CC

IMO, curses in D2 are the most fun type of spells of all. Many of them are tricky to use and affect AI in cool ways. You can make monsters escape. You can make their attack weaker, make them more vulnerable to various types of dmg, blind ranged attackers, make them fight among themselves. New curse could for ex. "silence" casters. It's not your old boring DPS, DPS, DPS and more DPS. Their use is very tactical an FUN.

3. Utility

They could borrow from WOW things like drains. Necro would be able to channel health an mana from one char to other. Suck life from one guy and give to somebody else. Very Necro and cool tactical uses. Sometimes to kill, sometimes to heal.

Ok, so now WD. People say they want something new and original and Necromancer is cliche. So what REALLY NEW this WD has?

...

NOTHING! The only new thing is jungle visual style which is controversial.

[jamesisbest]

To be honest I'm shocked that so many people would even considering wanting the same classes in Diablo 3. I don't know why there is such attachment to the necromancer. In my opinion he hardly even fit in with the hack and slash feel of diablo 2. Summons doing all your work is a bit slow paced and boring. The witch doctor has more interactive skills than just the basic summon, you can buff them with your skills and explode them for damage. Also seeing only a handful of skills is just a preview of them. I also thought the zombie wall was a neat idea. The necromancer did have the best voice acting and quirky feel to him in diablo 2 but it doesn't mean you won't grow to love the new characters in Diablo 3. I bet if they showed a different unique class to diablo 3 other than the barbarian in the intro the necro community wouldn't feel so empowered to beg for the necro class. A mistake I hope Diablo doesn't make in the 4th game. I think fanboism has taken a bit of rationality out of some people and not catering to their needs will end up clearing their heads when they realize not having a necro is not a bad thing after all.

[Es Mors]

So what REALLY NEW this WD has?


The combination of curses and summons with direct damage fire skills. New appearance, style and lore. All good. :yes:

[Mad Mantis]

To be honest I'm shocked that so many people would even considering wanting the same classes in Diablo 3.

The same can be said for the opposite. Why are some so adamant about wanting all new classes? Is it because a new class means they can have new visuals and a new style? It can't be just because of new skills since all skills of a class can be renewed. Not one needs to stay the same.

[Erwwwd]

Here's the problem as I see it.

Everyone is working under HUGE assumptions. Firstly, we don't know what the other three classes are, or what the eventual expansion classes will be (there are always expansion classes).

Secondly, no one has played the Witch Doctor, and we have only seen a fraction of the character's ability. People could very easily be surprised with how much they like it.

People need to get their panties out of a bunch and just get excited about the game. I never would have thought that there would be so much belly aching over possibly one of the biggest announcements in video gaming history. It's like some people aren't happy until they have something to be unhappy about.

qft

A bold statement like "I hate the witch doctor" is way too early. We have no way of knowing how it will work out. You can't hate it yet. Too strong and definitive a word.

[Dembol]

I actually found the WD quite cool. I always liked tribal/voodoo themes so it came rather easy. I'd think of it more as an summoner druid + poison + mind control than a necro.

I loved zombie wall. The other skills were also neat. I don't necesarry like the waydog/mongrel/whatever summon looks. It'd be awesome if he could summon those little guys from act 3 (duh, forgot the name, it's been a while since I last played) and shoot poisoned darts using a blowpipe :D Some earth/plant themed spells could also be a nice addition (druid's creepers with ability to attack enemies would be nice) that go well with the jungle theme. And I want more zombies. It's a pity that they were always so slow so they aren't that good summons, but a spell which could raise a couple temporary zombies would be a fun addition.

There's no point complaining whether it's better to keep the old classes or add completely new. Blizzard seems to be doing the best of things - keeping the (good) old ideas, mixing them in completely new ways (to create new gameplay features) and adding a bit of new stuff fitting well with the old. It would really suck if I started Diablo 3 and after 5 minutes I'd know the perfect cookiecutter build for my new character. New ideas assure that there'll be a lot of fun for the new players and for those who had hundreds of 99lvl characters as well.

It's good to be back after a looong break :)

[lumpor]

Actually, I agree a bit that I don't liked the skills for the wd. Vodoo dolls, plagues and nature spirits would be better. I don't like the fire bomb or the undead skills. They don't fit him

[Lazarus II]

Personally I don't understand why so many want just a facelift to D2 instead of something fresh. From the videos I still get that Diabloesque feel and atmosphere, but there's also lots of new and exciting stuff, like the Witch Doctor. I love that guy's abilities already.

[Hello Jim]

2nd on that.
I just hope they won't make him too much of a Necro. I mean, if the concept will be the same (summoner/1 elemntal/1 elemental- and curses on the side) this will be very boring and we'll get the hang of it too quickly. I'd like to see the WD more as a Dark Druid than a voodoo Necro, or if it's still possible- Something totally new.

[Kiroptus]

I dont think anyone would be asking for the return of the necro if the barb didnt come back. He IS the barbarian from D2. The very same character visual wise. And cmon, he was made of passives, temporary passives (shouts) and WW.

I repeat, of all classes the necromancer was the one who had the least generic role, he was original, full of tricks and variations. Im sad to see him go when the barb is there, updated to be much more interesting. Plus no one is asking for D2's necro, we are asking for a Diablo 3's necro, updated and more pratical. Its true that some people with little imagination hate a class that escapes from the generic classes' role like the necro but there is a good part of the community that likes those tricks and the necro was perfect for those.

[kontankarite]

Look, no one here is overtly against the WD for newness reasons. It's the insinuation that he's here to replace an already well established, and quite frankly, more aesthetically pleasing character. They claim that the WD isn't a Necro replacement. That's all good and fine, but the huge evidence so far is that this guy has been stealing from the Necromancer's cookie jar. Soul Harvest, Zombie Wall, Horrify...

I like the idea of the witchdoc as a new class, but I don't like the idea of Blizz slicing up old classes from D2 and mixing them together to call them new classes. You want to make new classes, great. But don't make it seem like your obviously trying to covertly rip off D2.

[syndrohm]

Look, no one here is overtly against the WD for newness reasons. It's the insinuation that he's here to replace an already well established, and quite frankly, more aesthetically pleasing character. They claim that the WD isn't a Necro replacement. That's all good and fine, but the huge evidence so far is that this guy has been stealing from the Necromancer's cookie jar. Soul Harvest, Zombie Wall, Horrify...

I like the idea of the witchdoc as a new class, but I don't like the idea of Blizz slicing up old classes from D2 and mixing them together to call them new classes. You want to make new classes, great. But don't make it seem like your obviously trying to covertly rip off D2.

While a master of the dark arts, those skills you mentioned have nothing to do with the Necro. Necro's summoned skellies, golems, and ressurected slain monsters. They never summoned zombies. Although the Necro had a skill identical to Horrify, it wasn't exclusive to the Necro (Grim Ward ring a bell?). And when did the Necro harvest souls or anything close to that? There are many paths in the dark arts and there is room for all whom embrace the dark arts. For those complaining about the uselessness/ugliness of the mongrel summons I am sure they are the first summon availible. How many people forgo the more powerful summons (Grizzly Bear, Dire Wolves) for the weaker ones you get first? I'm sure they have many more skills up their sleeves and possibly a Necro in the future.

[Kiroptus]

I don't know why there is such attachment to the necromancer. In my opinion he hardly even fit in with the hack and slash feel of diablo 2. Summons doing all your work is a bit slow paced and boring.

Teleporting around and skipping every monster until the boss is also against the idea of a hack and slash and it was the most abused feature of the game.

[kontankarite]

While a master of the dark arts, those skills you mentioned have nothing to do with the Necro. Necro's summoned skellies, golems, and ressurected slain monsters. They never summoned zombies. Although the Necro had a skill identical to Horrify, it wasn't exclusive to the Necro (Grim Ward ring a bell?). And when did the Necro harvest souls or anything close to that? There are many paths in the dark arts and there is room for all whom embrace the dark arts. For those complaining about the uselessness/ugliness of the mongrel summons I am sure they are the first summon availible. How many people forgo the more powerful summons (Grizzly Bear, Dire Wolves) for the weaker ones you get first? I'm sure they have many more skills up their sleeves and possibly a Necro in the future.


Are you implying that mastery over zombies isn't even slightly like a Necro thing?

[syndrohm]

Are you implying that mastery over zombies isn't even slightly like a Necro thing?

No I am implying that there has been nothing in the previous iterations of Diablo to limit the summoning of zombies to the Necro class. Would it be normal/awesome to see a Necro summon a horde of zombies? Hell yea! But saying that no other class should be able to is rediculous. I would consider the summoning of zombies as an ability of the Dark Arts, which the Necro and the Witch Doctor both use.

[Zarniwoop]

Since I started this thread, and it's growing, I will answer the question, why would I post this so early.

First, let me say that I do believe that whatever they do, Blizzard will make a fun game. I do not dispute this.

However, the witchdoctor, while funny looking, just isn't anything heroic or menacing. I saw all the different clips of it, and I agree, it's better than it looked in the first long trailer. But, it looks more like a clown than a menacing figure. I'm sure they will fix it up, I hope.

I guess the point is that a witch doctor feels to me like a guy in his first year of necromancy school. And if you give a guy zombie walls, you have just announced there will be no necromancer. Argue all you want.

I know the term lagomancer came from somewhere. Make 3 skeleton pets that grow over time and become huge later. With muti target attacks, low levels of crushing blow, whatever. Add horrifying effects when spawned. If you want to give him disease sprays great. But,I picture that guy coming out of a hut in a swamp and everyone else going, christ, get the hell away from me you stinking wretch.

I'll live either way, and I am sure the WD will be popular. But, it's cool factore in my book remains unchanged at a hearty 3/10.

[Zeek]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me the witch doctor looked like he was using early level skills. I can't imagine we'll be throwing little fire bombs at the big baddies at the end of the game. Though firebomb was exactly an early level skill of the assassin. I don't see the problem there.

I thought they even mentioned in the gameplay trailer that the mongrels were early summons of the WD. So, that's like his first summon. Let's wait and see what else he has up his sleeves before we get too worried. It's not like you see a lot of druids using just crows to fight their battles.

I know that if I had D3 in my hands right now and all I had to choose from was a same old same old barb and the new witch doctor that I'd choose the witch doctor.

[prion]

i'd make both...flip a coin for first one....

[Queen Mebd]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me the witch doctor looked like he was using early level skills. I can't imagine we'll be throwing little fire bombs at the big baddies at the end of the game. Though firebomb was exactly an early level skill of the assassin. I don't see the problem there.

That's actually a great point Zeek, fireblast is actually a great stunlocking tool for pvp assassin's - a 9 frame trap with no nextdelay makes it wonderful for locking down opponents with mindblast swirlies active. But you never would have gotten that from watching a video of an assassin running around fireblasting fallen and quill rates in the more or even laying lightning sentries later in the game. I think the witch doctor looks like a lot of fun from what we've seen, but it's just that, from what we've seen thus far. ^_^

[cmc]

I gather some people are objecting because they feel the WD doesn't seem to fit the Voodoo/black magic theme enough. I think maybe it should differentiate itself from the necromancer in that it should not have any undead summons or spells.

Things I think the WD should specialise in:

Spell specialisation in Poison and Disease, minor in fire.
Makes the most sense for this class type. The AOE fire ability should also come streaming from his mouth as fire breath (like the Fetish creatures in Diablo II) maybe vary the distance according to skill level. Also blowing poison darts from his mouth seems like a trademark skill if indiana jones is any indication.

Summons.
Large venomous insects such as spiders in Diablo II; Carnivorous plants such as maneating vines are good (imagine them slowing down movement too); Reptiles and snakes seem the most suitable.

I think the manipulation of a voodoo doll to affect crowds is actually pretty cool. Imagine the animation above his head is actually a doll he is manipulating with his hands. They should spice this animation up a bit to make it seem that way.

[Flux]

what if they called him a Voodoo Lord? and made him tall and upright and severe, like oh... Lurch?

[HRP]

I don't know about you guys, but spewing out a swarm of locusts that devours my enemies and turns them into a pile of blood and bones sounds pretty awesome to me. I think it's pretty dumb that he can summon dogs from dirt, but hey, this is a fantasy action-RPG, not real life.

[kontankarite]

You know what's weird. I remember when playing d2 about how much the necro reminded me of something quite voodoo like.

Here's the crux. Necromancer fans LOVE the aesthetic of the necromancer. It's brooding, it's dark, it's enigmatic, and it's powerful. The necromancer holds the keys of death and undeath in his hands. He mocks death, he mocks the reaper for crying out loud.

So the Witch Doctor is a summon/support class. Big deal. I don't care if he's got all the snakes and mongrels in the world helping him out. I don't care that he uses flaming potions to blow people up. I don't mind the WD being a whole new class. What we do mind is that he has at least some degree of mastery over undeath. THIS is what the necromancer fans are having a hard time dealing with. He has zombie wall and spirits helping him out.

Basically, what the means is that there isn't even a chance to have a necromancer in a different kind of role. There's no HOPE of having any kind of dark magic class that is known as the Necromancer.

That zombie wall and the help from spirits is a guarantee that you will not be seeing a necromancer as a playable character in any way what so ever. So the best we can hope for is a necromancer who just stands around as an NPC or worse yet, our enemies.

We can't be talking about just play styles, we've also got to be talking about the art and attitude of each character. Since the WD has some kind of control over the undead, it basically proves that the necro is unavailable as a playable character because there's no way in hell Blizzard is going to make two classes with mastery over the undead.

So honestly, the WD doesn't have nearly as much personality as the necromancer. Not even close. Sure, he's "cute" and kinda "funny" with his crack withdrawal fits, but he lacks that certain mystery and dark attitude. That aloof, shadowy character who knows far too much about forbidden things.

We wont see a character like that in D3. At least not a necro. Maybe a pally may become the new aloof character who is kind of dark and brooding.

But if the WD is any indication that he's the new master of the undead, then you're going to have a whole slew of disappointed fans.

I love the control of the undead. Too bad the character that's delivering that to me is the cracked out version of the monkey shaman from The Lion King.

[kontankarite]

Sorry to double post, but if my post was TL;DR, allow me to simplify what we, the necromancer fans, are trying to say.

We are getting this:

http://www.lionking.org/characters/images/Rafiki-char.jpg

Instead of this:

http://www.thanatosrealms.com/diablo2/pictures/necromancer/render01.jpg

Rafiki is apparently Blizzard's new master of the undead.

[Joshisapoolie]

Perhaps a more "bone" skill focused Necromancer would allow it to be distanced from the WD.

Like alot of people, the necro was my favourite character, especially in PvP. Max block, along with enigma allowed my to dispatch opponents with bone spear/spirit using alot of fcr. Maybe by expanding the bone attacks/defense element of the character it would set it apart from the Witch doctor in terms of allowing the WD to keep most of the summoning aspects of gameplay. Perhaps a stronger version of teeth? Probably could get away with retaining curses too.

Not saying you should do away with summoning all together as it was the defining element of a necro for many people but it wasn't the only aspect of the character.

[prowler666]

Come on guys, If you don´t want changes, go play D2 and stop bragging and cursing Blizzard.

We will have 5 classes in D3, as stated by the FAQ, with 3 open spots (Barbarian and Witch Doctor already taken).

Now we have 6 missing classes from D2, and at least 3 of them will not be present in the new game. Stop being selfish.

Too bad it´s the Necromancer. Live with that.

[Zarniwoop]

Come on guys, If you don´t want changes, go play D2 and stop bragging and cursing Blizzard.

We will have 5 classes in D3, as stated by the FAQ, with 3 open spots (Barbarian and Witch Doctor already taken).

Now we have 6 missing classes from D2, and at least 3 of them will not be present in the new game. Stop being selfish.

Too bad it´s the Necromancer. Live with that.


Your post fails to grasp one important concept. That is your opinion. I stated mine. I in no way expect you to agree with it. But everyone telling me, "go play D2 then" adds nothing to the equation. I am sure I will play D3. I'm NOT MARRIED TO THE NECROMANCER! I am not saying D3 MUST have a necromancer.

But, I am saying the Witchdoctor simply sucks in my opinion. He's a bobbing clown that vomits leaves. There's nothing cool or menacing about him, in my opinion. I gave suggestions for a necromancer like class, but you could call it a dark stalker, a beastmaster, a dark summoner, whatever. Even call it a witch doctor. But, don't make it goofy.

Edit: and I stand pat on my statement that undead minions are far, FAR cooler than stray dogs.

[Dorfoumous]

Wow...just wow...

The game isn't even out yet. And the only thing we know about the game is the video, where it doesn't even really show much

so, I wouldn't get so upset about something you know nothing about

Plus if you all keep whining the game will never be released.

[kontankarite]

http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview


Most of the content is made. All the classes are done. All the content is done. It's just a matter of time. What you see is what you get. Sorry guys, looks like you're going to have to deal with the fact that the ones that made D3 still had a hard on for Warcraft.

[Glurin]

Most of the content is made. All the classes are done. All the content is done. It's just a matter of time. What you see is what you get.

"We have a long way to go. Mostly on the content side."

Doesn't sound done to me.

[kontankarite]

"We have a long way to go. Mostly on the content side."

Doesn't sound done to me.



He did say the classes were basically done.

[sectoid]

Back on topic, my vision of the WD is that he's OK, but is just not that cool to stand out. A good way to represent this would be, "If blizz were making D4 and choosing some classes from D3 to come along, the WD certainly would not be one of them".

I can picture him in the lore of the game, he has decent skills(I find disease damage way better that D2's poison, it seems to give more damage and quicker) and can have funny talk here and there. I certainly would laugh if he suddenly spoke "rakanishu!" to a fallen in that high-pitched tone voice :P (i.e. if he spoke monster language...)
Still, even with all that, I'll probably not play him as the first, and may even not "play" him beyond taking a look at his skill tree at all.

[Ampersand]

Witch doctor having no personality?...he's got way more than the necromancer, who is like the teenager who wants to be like everyone else...while the witch doctor does his own thing. That big mask of his also adds to his creepiness and charm.

[TheReadMenace]

There have been some wild assumptions tossed around in this thread. The necro is NOT my favorite class, I find the WD MORE asthetically pleasing than the necro, and just because he uses comparable skills to D2 classes doesn't mean he's a boring, rehashed character.

It's obvious that the WD haters aren't going to have their opinions changed, and that's that. But I'll share my own opinions. First off, to all those who'll miss their beloved necromancers: boo-frickin-hoo. I miss my dead father. Get over it.

IMVHO, I always thought that necros were the misfits of D2. How can a pallid faced, skeleton raising person be on the side of good? An undead skeleton is NOT heroic. There's the saying "Fight fire with fire." Well, that's like saying we should do a control burn on all the forests in California so we won't have to deal with widespread wildfires later on.

Here's an idea: Instead of being negavite Nancys about the loss of a beloved class, how about embracing a new character model that'll have a whole new combination of skills that we've never tried before? And hating him simply because he's hunchbacked, grass skirt- and headdress-wearing, shoeless & primitive seems awfully racist to me.

Flame away. Admittedly, it sucks that you've lost a character and playstyle you've come to enjoy. But who knows? There's still three unannounced classes, plus the guarantee that an expansion will come out since that's Bliz's style. There may just be a dark, foreboding, brooding character you can relate to and come to love just as much.

[PoXeR]

Could not have said it any better myself.

[PlastBox]

Ok, here is my 2 cents.

First of: some pro-Necromancer views:

The Necromancer is the only anti-hero of Diablo lore. A lot of people like the anti-hero better than the standard super-hero, and as someone who fights for humanity despite beeing hated and shunned for their ways, they fit this role exceedingly well. Everyone else fights on the side of Light, the High Heavens. The Necromancers, members of the secluded Cult of Rathma, fight to uphold balance and to ensure humankinds right to exist and live as they will, not as pawns of Angels or Demons.

Also, I saw someone in this thread claiming Necros are evil for what they do. Go read some lore, man! Necros do not use your dear grannys soul for cannonfodder. He uses spiritual energies (mostly his own, according to lore) to animate and manipulate bones, items and corpses. This is not the same as torturing someone by binding their soul to a corpse and force it into fighting, or harvesting and binding souls to items (something I would more imagine a Haitian Voodo Priest of stories, or the WD doing).

Base line is; I like having the anti-hero. You are protecting people, saving the world, but you are still so dark and mysterious that the very people you are saving fear and shun you. No, I am not emo. Check out japanese animé. The underdog/anti-hero is like a red thread in most stories. Hunter X Hunter, Hellsing, Hajime no Ippo, Naruto and many other I can't remember right now.:yes:


That said, I could come to like the WD, IF they at least make him stand up straight! I mean.. come on! Have you guys seen African tribal people? Tallest people in the world, proud and firce warriors, incredible stamina, and they are not hunchbacked. Their shamans/which doctors enter trances to go into an "Unseen world" like the D3 WD, where they can communicate and ask the aid of spirits and such. Despite what Blizz would have us believe, they do not look like Quasimodo.:whistling:

I think there is HUGE potential to a Which Doctor class and it can no doubt fill the summoning/cc role that Necro had in D2. Still, they need to make him look like he's proud of what he's doing, not like a 90 year old geriatric patient! With the color palette, this game is already a tad bit more cartoony than I what I had hoped for. The addition of a character that looks like Quasimodo at the *** Pride Parade is really not needed. Still, I wouldn't mind a Which Doctor taking the Necros place IF he was made to look like a proud warrior and had skills comparable to the hoodo/voodo priests and which doctors in our real-world lore.

[PlastBox]

Decided to split my reply to two posts, seeing as how the first became so long noone are going to read it anyways. =P

Diablo III will contain 5 classes. Considering the fact that Blizzard is not in any way stupid or incompetent, they will not make 2 classes fill the same role. So here comes my speculation on which roles will be included:

- Warrior (the Barb already fills this nicely)
- Summoner/CC (the WD will no doubht fill this role, previously occupied by the Necro)

- Ranger (come ON, there will be a bow/javelin using class!)
- Classic magic user (Like the Sorc, wielding elemental, "traditional" magic)
- support/melee (something like the Pala, supporting with something like auras and maybe a little healing, but also able to fight their way through the game solo)


In my opinion ("opinion" beeing the key word here), there is no way Blizzard is going to put the Necro in this game. Having two Summoning/CC-classes makes no more sence than having two Warrior-classes whos only real skill is beating things over the head with something heavy.

I will miss the Necromancer as much as anyone, but I still almost had to change my underwear when Blizz finaly confirmed Diablo III. I have no doubht this will be a great game, and Blizz won't release it until the Which Doctor is every bit as awesome and usable as all the other classes.

[Mad Mantis]

Seems like most people either hate the WD or like him. Just like the Necro. Am I sad to see our pasty, white mullet-wearing, red-trousered curse ***** go? Yes. I liked the way he looked, I liked the way he played and I liked what he stood for. I even liked his reputation ingame and on the boards. For most of the Necromancer players the WD has some very big shoes to fill.

At this point in time Blizz can say that he is not here to replace the necro, but for us players it does feel that way. It is sad to see another class usurp your favorite class' role while another class survives the transition to a new game.
Does that mean that we won't give the WD the chance that he deserves? For some it could very well be. That is in their right. They also have the right to voice this opinion.
Others will give the char a chance and then decide. They can make their reservations known as well.
And there are of course the new people excited to see a class appear that caters to their wishes. For them it can be hard to see this new and exciting class being ripped on by people who liked his predecessor more. They also have the right to make this known.

However I remain of the conviction that the WD could be a very cool class to play. The thing I don't like right now are a few visuals. That could be fixed. I'd love to see more bad-*** animations and less of the WC troll. But if all I don’t like are a few animations, I think things are looking pretty decent for me.


But, I am saying the Witchdoctor simply sucks in my opinion. He's a bobbing clown that vomits leaves.

If people keep this up my sig is going to be huge.

[Hideo]

I always hated trolls from Wc3 and WoW. WD is exactly like a troll.

I don't know the lore, but when I think about Necromancer i see: dark ages, holy inquisition, torture chambers, catacumbs, beautiful royal tombs, huge gothic cathedrals, alchemy, rotting corpses, undead, curses, poisons, de Sade, Dracula... gothic metal. O_o

When I think about Witch Doctor I see: dude from jungle who knows some herbs and itoxicates himself to mainpulate peasants from a local village. Dude who kills chickens to look scary. Dude who looks like a geriatric troll with Parkinson.

[korialstraz]

I don't see why so many people don't like the WD. He is like the pinacle of evolution withing the Diablo franchise right now!

Sure the barb is tall prud, magnificent loud mouthed, brute force, jumping and cleaving killing machine. But what else? It's just like the barb from D2 only with better graphical displays.

Now look at the WD. Sure he may be hunched and look strange, but which other class can summons pets, then use their own OFFENSIVE spells on them to ENHANCE their abilities in combat? And I'm sure this is just the beggining. IIRC the Mongrels can be enhanced with fire as well. Now imagine a Mongrel set on fire, running into a crowd of monsters, just to be exploded into a burst of magical energies and fire to everyone close to it? Now imagine 10 of those running into a pack of monsters! It's like recastable suicide bombers!

If that's what the barb so far has to compete with the future of that class looks grim. Especially when/if a pure caster class is implemented. Before bashing him because of the looks or him "replacing" the Necro, think about what he can offer. When is the last time you saw a Necro combine abilities like that into a deadly combo...?

Thought so...

/:rant:

[StreetShark]

The Witchdoctor is a joke of a choice for a new character in D3. Real truth concerning witch doctors is based around them doing the bidding of demons. They have no power over them, they are the pawns. This character can in no way correlate to the average blizzard gamers ideas of a hero he could somewhat see himself as. A hunched over black looking troll freak?! Yeah great idea blizzard, what a good choice for an interesting and popular character.

[Cdnexpat]

Where is the love???

I will miss the necro but the thing I liked the most about the necro was the fact he was so versitile. The witch doctor appears to be a versitile character. The necro was also original. I haven't seen a lot of jungle hobo characters before. (man what are my chances of getting that name now?) How he play in the game will affect how much i like him and I will definately play him in the game. I also hope they can keep battle net clean this time.

[Sequitur]

I don't know what I find more amusing.

Reading some of the most biased negativity I've ever seen.

OR

The fact that more than half of 'those' people will be gushing about how much the WD rocks when the game ships.


The latter, I think, heh..

[lazerlight]

This stupid Witch Doctor idea is going to lead to the first ever "Contraction Set" for a computer game...

"Buy the new Diablo III: King of Demolition contraction set today! Features include the removal of the Witch Doctor... and well, that's all."

It's going to be a best seller for sho.

[SmittySixTen]

This thread is still going strong?

You guys need to stop pissing about this. You act as though it is a personal shot against you and all you stand for, without even knowing if the necromancer is really axed or not.

Like I said, if it bothers you this much don't buy the game. If you still want to buy the game, then shut it. It's already tired and the announcement hasn't even been out a week.

[kontankarite]

Here's an idea: Instead of being negavite Nancys about the loss of a beloved class, how about embracing a new character model that'll have a whole new combination of skills that we've never tried before? And hating him simply because he's hunchbacked, grass skirt- and headdress-wearing, shoeless & primitive seems awfully racist to me.



Doooo whhaaaa? Did I just read someone insinuate that the people complaining about the WD was racist? Where has anyone said the WD being black was a problem? Explain that one?

Actually, since you want to say we seem racist, then are you insinuating that because he's an ancient black man, that he's expected to wear lame grass masks, bare foot, and be overtly tribal?

You are outta control, comrade.

[Beowulf]

Why do people always go crazy like this? Give it a chance, the wall of zombies looks cool as hell and strong then what the necro has. I am very open minded and willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that they will release another great product.

[Mad Mantis]

Like I said, if it bothers you this much don't buy the game. If you still want to buy the game, then shut it.

Endless praise isn't the only proper reaction to the announcement of a videogame. Critique can be had as well.

[poroboszcz]

Imo all D2 classes were somehow epic. They were classes on their own. They could easily be imagined as heros taking a chance against most powerful mosters. And now in a world scale conflict between heaven and hell, to fight armies of creatures from hell and defeat the lords of evil themselvers, comes who? A witchdoctor? Oh come on!
This bloke is like some redneck from a village deep in the woods who's learned magick tricks from a local fortune-teller. Anything that is epic about this guy is fail.
I'm gonna PK these guys on sight!

[jtanwanteng]

You people who are judging without first playing are ridiculous.

When has Blizzard ever failed to deliver fun?

Every single person on this board will buy D3 and most likely love it. They will find 2 or three classes they like and play them to death.

[Mad Mantis]

You people who are judging without first playing are ridiculous.

Why? Because they have an opinion based on information released by Blizzard? Why should you wait before something is finished before you can offer critique?


When has Blizzard ever failed to deliver fun?

Who ever in these discussions said that DIII wouldn't be a fun game to play? All people are commenting on is whether or not they like the way a certain character class looks and feels. Hardly that the disappearance of the Necro, or the appearance of the WD has ruined the game for them.

[Ampersand]

And now in a world scale conflict between heaven and hell, to fight armies of creatures from hell and defeat the lords of evil themselvers, comes who? A witchdoctor? Oh come on!
This bloke is like some redneck from a village deep in the woods who's learned magick tricks from a local fortune-teller. Anything that is epic about this guy is fail.


Quite a narrow-minded view. I suggest you go play some more games and broaden it a bit. In many games classes with shaministic powers are quite the opposite of weak.

[LucianDK]

Personally I think its overreacting to say that they wont buy the game because the necro isnt there. I for one would not have expected to see ANY classes carrying over from d2 at all. Just like how it was from d1 to d2, all new iterations.

The witch doctory trolls where quite popular in WoW, and I foresee alot of people loving them picking up the witch doctor here.

[SmittySixTen]

Endless praise isn't the only proper reaction to the announcement of a videogame. Critique can be had as well.

I'm not hearing any "critiquing" going on. I'm hearing people whining that the Necromancer may not be in the game anymore. Now, if people had an honest problem with the Witch Doctor, after using him, then fine. Right now it's too soon to heavily critique beyond, "they should add or remove this aspect".

Like I said, that's not happening in here. What is happening in here is, "WTFZ I WANT A NECRO".

[Zarniwoop]

Then you're not reading smitty.

You've been here a long time, and I respect you. But, while I love the necromancer, not having a necromancer is not the root of my problem as listed. Believe as you wish.

[Stafir]

Actually Zarni..re-reading your origional post. Yes your entire problem is with loosing the necromancer. You are unhappy to see the Witchdoctor because he replaces the Necromancer. That is what you said in your origional post. You are unhappy the Necro, in your opinion, is not there anymore. You are unhappy that they chose the WD to replace him.


Now as an overall reply to the thread and not just one poster. I also do not understand this whole thing about wanting all of the old classes to return. And just have this game be Diablo III: We took II and gave you some new acts to play in. To a degree I do understand, I know the sorceress is going to be replaced..and I hate that. She was my fav class in Diablo II. I honestly do not expect to see a Sorcerer/Sorceress class in III, and while we will see something to fulfill the same basic role, I know it won't be the same. I'm personally surprised the Barb has returned...he is a strait warrior type, but I expected a new facelift.

But I honestly think too many people are just taking one look at the WD and not even a good one. They are just hurt over loosing their precious army of useless bones that die in one hit, overly nerfed CE, cannot kill a boss if their life depended on it, teeth of an old man throwing, pale faced, emo miscreant.

Did those all sound silly to you and just barely hanging onto a slight thread of truth? Yes? Good. Now all of you know how silly you sound when you try to make fun of the WD.

I personally welcome the WD, as I never expected to see a Necro, Amazon, Paladin, Druid, Sorceress, Assassin, or Barbarian again. And I actually enjoy his look..and the fact he can create a group of burning fire dogs...which was most interesting to watch in action.

[poroboszcz]

Quite a narrow-minded view. I suggest you go play some more games and broaden it a bit. In many games classes with shaministic powers are quite the opposite of weak.

So what? There can be games where witch doctor is next to god. I've just expressed my feelings about this class, as seen so far, in D3 context.

[Zarniwoop]

Yes and I updated with another post clarifying.

[Stafir]

And who reads later posts? Well I guess I do at times..but for the sake of it, just re-read it to refresh my memory..and all of your minuses against the WD seem....well, ill formed. And everything seems exaggerated about how bad he is. He dosn't seem that silly to me, he dosn't look that horrible, and his skills in the demo play looks to be unpolished, not poorly made. Also from the looks of how he is made, I don't think he is there to replace the necromancer..just from the early look. He has two summoning skills so far, both of them rather minor ones, and honestly I think of him as more a replacement for a pure druid than the necromancer, except not melee based. Elemental tree based on more nature looking attacks like a druid, minor summoning tree that creates a small number of things from nothing (like a druid..yes again). The big diff is that unlike the druid he has what looks to be a 'debuff tree'. His poison like attack (which is what the locust swarm seems more modeled after) even reminds me of the druids creepers...something that is summoned and poisons the enemy.

The gameplay of the WD looks half decent to me, at least from what I've seen, I like the fact you can buff your summons with your attack spells, the demo showed both the locust swarm and the firebomb being used (if you watch the high def version on gametrailers its easy to see..just never rightout talked about), and personally I'm wondering what else could be used.

I am looking forward to using him, I actually do enjoy the way he's made. But I have a slight fascination with all things tribal, to be honest.

[Telzen]

http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview


Most of the content is made. All the classes are done. All the content is done. It's just a matter of time. What you see is what you get. Sorry guys, looks like you're going to have to deal with the fact that the ones that made D3 still had a hard on for Warcraft.

Did you even watch your source? He even says that most of the content is not done. The classes are mostly done though.

[5zigen]

I agree with flux. People are just afraid of new things, and people whose favorite character was the necromancer don't want to see him gone. Which is understandable.

The thing that bothers me, is that people are changing their sadness for losing the necromancer and transposing it as hatred of the Witch Doctor.

I like the witch doctor. Zombies have long been part of the Voodoo lore, so I think it fits. I dont know why people are complaining that he isn't undeady enough, when he summons zombie dogs and zombie walls... With the whole, "enchant your summons with your spells" it's shaping up to look like he could have pretty interesting play implications.

As far as utility goes he's shaping up the exact same as the necromancer: A direct damage tree (we've seen 2 skills from there) A enemy debuffing tree (two skills from there too) and a summon tree (we've only seen 1 skill from this aspect).


All in all, It's just a kind of silly gripe. Because the character isn't pasty white with good posture and bad hair he sucks? I think the WD's looks is much much better than the necromancer ever was.

He did say the classes were basically done.

Actually he said they were all internally playable IIRC, which doesn't mean done. It does mean decided on in general though.

[Cdnexpat]

I'm not sure where this theme that the WD will be weak is coming from. The most powerful class and skills will be the ones that are picked to be the most powerful by Blizzard. There may be no apparent reason for this selection. Look at Blessed Hammer, it should be crap but it is great because it ignores all the immunes except one or two and it is the only magic spell that gets bonuses from an aura that is supposed to enhance physical damage. Now imagine if fire claws if it did normal damage to fire immunes, ignored other forms of fire resist and absorb and it's damage recieved an addictional boost for HOW. The realms would be filled with bears.

The WD skills will be as good or bad as Blizzard wants them to be. It they decide to make the WD the red headed stepson then he will be weak. If they want to want him to be the next hammerdin he will be that too.

[raveharu]

This is Diablo 3, so stop griping about what isn't the same as D2.

Accept the new changes.

I think the WD's looks is much much better than the necromancer ever was.

I agree, he looks much more formidable and nasty than the necromancer.

[Glurin]

The thing that bothers me, is that people are changing their sadness for losing the necromancer and transposing it as hatred of the Witch Doctor.


Or maybe we just don't like the WD regardless of whether or not he's replacing the necro.

[raveharu]

Or maybe we just don't like the WD regardless of whether or not he's replacing the necro.

well then don't play D3.

[Glurin]

well then don't play D3.

What kind of argument is that? There are other classes you know. The game is called "Diablo 3", not "Witchdoctor: The Dancing Idiot".

[Teleportation]

Personally I'm just glad they took away the necro. Now THAT was a ridiculous character.

On a side note, the WD looks awesome.
What kind of argument is that? There are other classes you know. The game is called "Diablo 3", not "Witchdoctor: The Dancing Idiot".

And you seem to think D2 was Necromancer:The withered old man.:whistling:

Guess what: It wasn't!

[Narc]

The principle of the Necromancer remains, there just seem to be slight tweaks here and there. Similar to that of a Diablo 1 Ranger (was it ranger?) turning into a Diablo 2 Amazon.

It almost seemed like Blizzard wanted to slightly tweak the class and when they looked back on what they had done, they didn't think what it was turning into was all that loyal to the original character design. Easiest solution? Renaming it.

[Zarniwoop]

I'm guessing D3 will just be a lot more streamlined.

As long as it maintains the depth of D2, and the difficulty, I will try to support whatever they come up with.

[korialstraz]

What kind of argument is that? There are other classes you know. The game is called "Diablo 3", not "Witchdoctor: The Dancing Idiot".

Then why not stop complaining so damn much about 1 char? It is only 1 char afterall, and there are other classes...

[lionheart]

Just give the poor guy a chance honestly. I personally enjoyed playing every single character in the two previous games.

[Glurin]

And you seem to think D2 was Necromancer:The withered old man.

FYI, I enjoyed several of the other charactors in D2, but the necromancer was always my favorite. The only one I didn't really enjoy overmuch was the paladin.



Then why not stop complaining so damn much about 1 char? It is only 1 char afterall, and there are other classes...

First of all, we don't know that he's gone. And second, because I can and will voice my opinion when I choose to do so. That's what we're here for, isn't it? To voice our opinions. Not to give blind and endless praise to the class that seemingly replaces one of the previous ones.

[LucianDK]

First of all, we don't know that he's gone. And second, because I can and will voice my opinion when I choose to do so. That's what we're here for, isn't it? To voice our opinions. Not to give blind and endless praise to the class that seemingly replaces one of the previous ones.

The game evolves. I was not happy to loose the Sorcerer from Diablo1 and getting a Sorceress instead. I liked the middle eastern style of the Vizjerei mages and the whole background with Horazon and Bartuc, and exploring a bit of history of the magocracy by finding the Arcane Sanctuary.

And these new female wannabe mages? Not my cup of tea, but I took them as a proper addition to the background of the world even if I never played them much.

But did I ***** and moan about it? No, the precise same case is happening here.

[Animation]

I am way late to the thread but I could not disagree with the original poster more. The Necromancer is my favorite D2 class and I'll miss him if he isn't in. However, I thought the Witchdoctor looked amazing, in terms of theme, powers, and effects. I thought the Witch Doctor totally blew the Barbarian away. If anything, the Barbarian fell a little flat since it just used all the popular skills he always used.

Bring on the Witchdoctor! YEAH!

Lewis

[Glurin]

Since when is offering up valid criticism "*****ing and moaning"?

[jasonmazzy]

looked neat to me!

[LucianDK]

Since when is offering up valid criticism "*****ing and moaning"?

I honestly haven't seen any serious point that really goes against the Witch Doctor.

[Cdnexpat]

I honestly haven't seen any serious point that really goes against the Witch Doctor.

I think the complaints about the locust animation are valid but yes a lot more whining and moaning than real complaints.

[MooCQ]

The moment this game pops onto storeshelves, Voodoo will take a strangle-hold and force all these naysayers into submission. This is utterly ridiculous, these transformations of character and name (yes, "Necromancer" is now known as "Witchdoctor") A hybrid of new skills.. and yet how strong people believe that this (contextually accurate - *hint* *hint* he's a SHAMAN- from Kurast?) avatar will somehow ruin gameplay.. give him a chance!

[Swiffer]

I never failed to be surprised how people can jump to conclusions about an entire class based on 8 minutes of video showing a small subset of his abilities.

Simply amazing.

[Ethika]

OOMJUBAAA!

Man the Doc is gonna be so much fun.

Basicaly there is a chance there won't be a Necro in Diablo 3 so lots of Necro lovers release their frustration on a class they believe is replacing him.

Do you honestly think the developers of Diablo 3 sat down together and said "lets just replace classes from Diablo 2"?

THE WITCH DOCTOR IS NOT THE NECRO IT IS THE WITCH DOCTOR!

[Psycroptic]

I agree with the OP. I like everything about the game so far except the Witch Doctor. This is Diablo, we do not want Warcraft characters, thanks. Even if that isn't bad enough, his skills so far are boring. Fire bombs that look and play like fulmination potions from D2? Locust Swarm which in effect is Poison Cloud? Summon Wolf...i mean mongrel?Necro curses? Zombie wall is a cool idea but looks terrible at the moment.

The WD just doesn't fit in with the Diablo world, for some reason. And,he isn't bringing anything new to the table. So what is the point? To make warcraft players feel at home?

[Ethika]

We have not seen any curses from the WD yet.

Witch doctors do not originate from Warcraft.

Fire Bomb is a great alchemical skill.

Locust Swarm is as much a poison cloud as it is a chain lightning.

Summon Mongrel is also great, an undead non-pedigree canine.

The Doctor fits in as much as any class, read some lore.

[Psycroptic]

We have not seen any curses from the WD yet.

Witch doctors do not originate from Warcraft.

Fire Bomb is a great alchemical skill.

Locust Swarm is as much a poison cloud as it is a chain lightning.

Summon Mongrel is also great, an undead non-pedigree canine.

The Doctor fits in as much as any class, read some lore.

We saw at least 2 curses from the WD in the gameplay movie.

Witch Doctors were in the warcraft world a long time ago. Now they are in Diablo. So as far as Diablo is concerned, WD's originate from Warcraft.

Firebombs looks and plays like fulminating potions.

Yes, Locust Swarm is like a slow chain lightning. Thanks for reinforcing my point that the WD brings nothing new to the game.

Summon mongrel is identical to summon wolf. It is that simple.

I don't need to be a diablo lore nerd to say that in my opinion, the WD doesn't feel right as a character class, and is bringing nothing new to the game.

[Ampersand]

Witch Doctors were in the warcraft world a long time ago. Now they are in Diablo. So as far as Diablo is concerned, WD's originate from Warcraft.


There were witch doctors in Diablo 2 you know....or close enough at least. Just because he's named 'Witch Doctor' doesn't mean he's exactly like the one in WC3.

[Psycroptic]

There were witch doctors in Diablo 2 you know....or close enough at least. Just because he's named 'Witch Doctor' doesn't mean he's exactly like the one in WC3.

Not playable ones. Obviously i've been through the flayer jungle, but what next....a playable stygian doll? That would be mega cool though.

And the WD in D3, at the moment, is about as close to the warcraft/wow WD's as you can get.

But wait....a playable stygian doll or succubus wouldn't attract nearly as much interest from war3/wow players, would it? Call me cynical, i know...

[Ethika]

We saw at least 2 curses from the WD in the gameplay movie.

Witch Doctors were in the warcraft world a long time ago. Now they are in Diablo. So as far as Diablo is concerned, WD's originate from Warcraft.

Firebombs looks and plays like fulminating potions.

Yes, Locust Swarm is like a slow chain lightning. Thanks for reinforcing my point that the WD brings nothing new to the game.

Summon mongrel is identical to summon wolf. It is that simple.

I don't need to be a diablo lore nerd to say that in my opinion, the WD doesn't feel right as a character class, and is bringing nothing new to the game.

We saw two spells, both of the hypnosis/mesmer variety, not curses.

Witch Doctors are not from Warcraft, your logic is poor.

Fire Bomb is a direct damage fire spell, you can compare it to thousands of others from RPG's if you like.

Locust Swarm is new and unique.

Summon Mongrel is not the same as summon wolf, clearly the mongrel is far more diverse from what we have seen.

Your opnion is accepted but I'm sure most fans would disagree.

[Pyratheon]

Be a lover, not a hater. :thumbup:

See how it turns out we haven't seen all of it yet, and maybe theres another class you'll like, after all, do you like all the classes in d2?

[korialstraz]

First of all, we don't know that he's gone. And second, because I can and will voice my opinion when I choose to do so. That's what we're here for, isn't it? To voice our opinions. Not to give blind and endless praise to the class that seemingly replaces one of the previous ones.

I've been trying to say all the time that the WD does not replace the Necro and that the Nec may not be gone, but all the naysayers is whining about how the WD replaced the Nec and how he sucks so much.

It's is to voice your opinion, but an opinion about a class that goes along the lines of "OMgz sucks! Bring teh nec back plx!" shouldn't even be allowed to be posted on this or any other forum (except maybe on jsp).

Since when is offering up valid criticism "*****ing and moaning"?

I've not seen any valid points from any of the naysayers in this thread. Not one.

I think the complaints about the locust animation are valid but yes a lot more whining and moaning than real complaints.

They are not valid, since the animation is most likely not finished, and it will be tweaked or improved. But if it isn't it just comes down to personal taste. You can say it's a valid point against the WD, I can say it is for the WD, since personally that char looks like a kick *** char.

Yes, Locust Swarm is like a slow chain lightning. Thanks for reinforcing my point that the WD brings nothing new to the game.

It looks more like a castable rabies spell imo :scratchchin:


I don't need to be a diablo lore nerd to say that in my opinion, the WD doesn't feel right as a character class, and is bringing nothing new to the game.

If you don't think the WD adds anything new to the game then go and whatch the game play video again. Did you eve see a char in D2 enchanting their own pets...?

...That's what I thought.

[Glurin]

Locust Swarm is new and unique.

Druid's rabies.

Summon Mongrel is not the same as summon wolf, clearly the mongrel is far more diverse from what we have seen.

How so?



I've not seen any valid points from any of the naysayers in this thread. Not one.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

If you don't think the WD adds anything new to the game then go and whatch the game play video again. Did you eve see a char in D2 enchanting their own pets...?

And that's about it so far.

[Mad Mantis]

I've not seen any valid points from any of the naysayers in this thread. Not one.

And yet there have been some decent points. I admit that it is easy to read over them through some of the more unconstructive posts (by both sides of the argument), but they are there.



Did you eve see a char in D2 enchanting their own pets...?

...That's what I thought.

That is a new gameplay device. Give that to any of the old classes and it will still be equally new. That is not something that you need the WD for.

[Ethika]

Glurin, you please explain how Locust Swarm is the Druids Rabies attack.

A mongrel is far more diverse than a wolf because it can be detonated and enchanted with fire or locusts and probably more that we haven't seen.

Your logic implies Poison Nova is just Nova, Meteor is just Fireball et cetera, how can you honestly believe Locust Swarm is even similar to Rabies?

[Psycroptic]

I'm going to make a Witch Doctor in D2 today. It will be a druid that uses fulminating potions and rabies. Hell should be a breeze :yes:

[korialstraz]

Then you haven't been paying attention.

As far as I remember most "valid" points made is that the necro has some skills resembling the necro and druid, he is ugly and he "stole" the necro spot. Call them valid if you want, but I don't see that as a valid argument.

Ofc I can't say all those that like the WD have made good points either, but at least we (mostly) have a good reason for liking the new char.


And that's about it so far.

So far... And if that's all the combination of spells/abilities we get, I will admit I'm going to be dissappointed.

And yet there have been some decent points. I admit that it is easy to read over them through some of the more unconstructive posts (by both sides of the argument), but they are there.



If you read above you know the answer to this as well >_>


That is a new gameplay device. Give that to any of the old classes and it will still be equally new. That is not something that you need the WD for.

Well it wasn't given to any of the old classes, since it's just that, old classes and old games. Neither do i think we need the WD for bringing in something new like combining spells, and I sure hope other classes will be able to do that as well.

[Pyratheon]

I really enjoy the fire bomb animation too. Bursts of fire with a flaming soul erupting from it.

[Mad Mantis]

As far as I remember most "valid" points made is that the necro has some skills resembling the necro and druid, he is ugly and he "stole" the necro spot. Call them valid if you want, but I don't see that as a valid argument.

That he resembles the Necro and has similar skills is what made people regard him as the replacement of the Necromancer. For some that was all the problems they had with the concept of the WD class. Most of these posts do tend to involve a lot of whining.

However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary. There has also been critique on the animations for some of the spells we have seen so far. Yes, you can group this in the category "the WD is ugly", but you'd not be giving the arguments made the proper attention. Similarly you could say that all the praise for the WD boils down to "he is new".

[Falconetti]

I will be so pissed if they leave out the rock´n roll necro in D3. I want white hair, pale skin and a leather jacket!

[Frank_the_tank]

I somewhat agree that the WD for different reasons felt less interesting than the successfully revamp barbarian, which from what has been shown so far looks kickass.

Even though the WD resembles the necro I think it's a bit early to make conclusions as to the necro being cut out of the game, let alone get pissed off 'bout it. The following has been said by Blizzard regarding new vs. old classes in the gameplay video:

"The Barbarian was the easy one for us, because he's one of the few classes that's coming over into the new game".

That being said I think its safe to say that among the three classes yet to be revealed two will be new and one will be old story. Now Blizzard know the necro was a popular choice and probably the most unique experience. Don't lose hope just yet.

[dynamitekid]

I like what I've seen of the witch doctor so far. I'm a fan of the necromancer class from DII but I think I'll have fun playing a WD too. I'm just happy that DIII is in development. :)

[SmittySixTen]

However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary.

So basically, Act 3 in Diablo II should never have been included? Don't get me wrong, I hate trying to find my way through that blasted jungle, but it's not like we have never see anything like the Witch Doctor in a Diablo game before. The entire act pretty much screams that something like a Witch Doctor could very well exist in one of the jungles of Sanctuary.

Now, if it is the artistic direction you are concerned about, that's not the Witch Doctor, it's Diablo III as a whole that has changed. That said, if the new art style is a problem, then why is everyone in this thread directing their issues at the Witch Doctor? Simply put, the people complaining (that's really what it is) are using the art as a crutch to try and validate whining.

I stand by what I said. People aren't upset about the Witch Doctor, or continuity issues, or the art direction. They are pissed that the Necromancer might not be in Diablo III.

[Mad Mantis]

So basically, Act 3 in Diablo II should never have been included?

That is not what I said. Nor is this particular point one that troubles me. It was however brought up in one of the threads.


Now, if it is the artistic direction you are concerned about, that's not the Witch Doctor, it's Diablo III as a whole that has changed.

Diablo as a whole has changed, but there is still a difference between the direction of the entire game and the direction a single character takes.


That said, if the new art style is a problem, then why is everyone in this thread directing their issues at the Witch Doctor?

Maybe because so far the only part of the overall direction people are not happy about is the WD? Maybe because this is the WD subforum and talking about the WD is appropriate?


Simply put, the people complaining (that's really what it is) are using the art as a crutch to try and validate whining.

According to you. People can really find the art and animation of the WD to be disappointing. There is a lot of whining going on, but that is coming from both sides of the argument.


I stand by what I said. People aren't upset about the Witch Doctor, or continuity issues, or the art direction. They are pissed that the Necromancer might not be in Diablo III.

That could very well be the case for some, or for most. But that is ignoring some of the problems that people have that do not come from disappointment about the disappearance of the Necromancer.

[Thyiad]

I'm in the wrong thread, I know but ... I like the witch doctor.

Come on guys, what's the point of having D3 with exactly the same characters? Yes, I know the Barb is back but that's one class. You seriously can't expect to have every single one back!

He's in the demo, I doubt Blizzard will dump him, enjoy his purply-greeness (which I think is quite fetching). :)

[5zigen]

I dont see what the gripes are all about. I think everyone is just upset that the undead guy isnt pale and white?

He looks pretty human and very cool to me

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/Guygin/D3/WitchDoc.jpg

Way better than the necromancer concept did.

[Sequitur]

Imo all D2 classes were somehow epic. They were classes on their own. They could easily be imagined as heros taking a chance against most powerful mosters. And now in a world scale conflict between heaven and hell, to fight armies of creatures from hell and defeat the lords of evil themselvers, comes who? A witchdoctor? Oh come on!
This bloke is like some redneck from a village deep in the woods who's learned magick tricks from a local fortune-teller. Anything that is epic about this guy is fail.
I'm gonna PK these guys on sight!

I lol'd.

Epic characters? Fair enough statement. All the classes were great in D2. But if you're going to set up the Witchdocter in such a negative light, of course he's going to sound lame. Let me try...

Necromancer? Oh come on! This decrepit, wrinkly old fart obviously got stuck in the 80's, and probably learned necromancy by staring at his frail, dilapidated body and thinking, "Crikey! If I can walk and talk, then surely I can make other nearly lifeless, crusty pieces of meat to do the same thing"

Sound epic?

(my first toon was a Necro, but I'm not on the 'Bring back the NECRO!!1!' bandwagon)

[killerbear]

huh i still dont get it why dont you like the wiych docter

[Verashiden]

Cus he's too epic to handle ;)

[SmittySixTen]

That is not what I said. Nor is this particular point one that troubles me. It was however brought up in one of the threads.

Actually, in your last post you yourself said this:

However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary.

You go on to say that this argument is not getting the proper attention. I was pointing out that it's not really a valid argument, because Kurast is proof that Sanctuary does, in fact, have environments that would be plausible for a Witch Doctor. I was simply responding to issues you raised, to show that they really shouldn't be considered issues.

Diablo as a whole has changed, but there is still a difference between the direction of the entire game and the direction a single character takes.

Fair enough. My counter to that would be that we do not know enough about either to make a sound judgment on how well either concept (the direction in which the game is taking and that of the Witch Doctor) is being pulled off. So, again, the argument doesn't really hold water--at least not at this time.

Maybe because so far the only part of the overall direction people are not happy about is the WD? Maybe because this is the WD subforum and talking about the WD is appropriate?

There's actually a petition to get the art work changed back to a more classic Diablo feel. I wish I had the link handy right now, but I don't. Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because a number of people are not happy with the art as a whole. However, the only part that people in this thread seem to have a problem with is the Witch Doctor. I'm not saying it's an "all or nothing" sort of thing, but it is pretty odd that people is AOK with the new art style, until a new character comes along that might oust the Necromancer.

According to you. People can really find the art and animation of the WD to be disappointing. There is a lot of whining going on, but that is coming from both sides of the argument.

I'd tend to respectfully disagree on that statement. The people defending the Witch Doctor seem to be more expressing exasperation. I'll grant that I may be biased, all things considered, but it does seem like the bulk of anti-Witch Doctor posts have been in the form of a complaint, rather than a thought out argument as to why the character is sub-par.

That could very well be the case for some, or for most. But that is ignoring some of the problems that people have that do not come from disappointment about the disappearance of the Necromancer.

Again, those concerns were addressed. The Witch Doctor fits in with Sanctuary, and he's right up the ally for the new art direction. However, it's still incredibly early yet, and my opinion may change. Right now, though, I honestly do not think there is anything that warrants this sort of reaction. He could very well turn out to be a disaster, but not even giving the guy a chance (or Blizzard) hardly sets people up with open minds.

[Glurin]

The people defending the Witch Doctor seem to be more expressing exasperation.

Seems to me that most of them are just convinced that new = better. They can't understand why replacing a character that has a particular style and theme with something that is essentially the complete opposite would upset anybody.

[Mad Mantis]

You go on to say that this argument is not getting the proper attention. I was pointing out that it's not really a valid argument, because Kurast is proof that Sanctuary does, in fact, have environments that would be plausible for a Witch Doctor. I was simply responding to issues you raised, to show that they really shouldn't be considered issues.

Fair enough. I think I didn't quite grasp what you meant in your previous post concerning this.


My counter to that would be that we do not know enough about either to make a sound judgment on how well either concept (the direction in which the game is taking and that of the Witch Doctor) is being pulled off.

We will not know anything for certai