5 and 2 analysis

[Goddess Belldandy]

I have a feeling, since Diablo III is staying true to its roots and offering free online play, that Blizzard will have to make its extra money the traditional way, expansions.

Coming out with 7 classes would make it difficult for a traditional expansion. So there will definitely be 5 classes with D3Classic and the D3expansion will end up being the "other 2" classes that Blizzard decides are a must need after the communities reaction to D3Classic's launch.

And let's face it, the necro role was already filled, so that rules out that type of class. The only way the necro will be added now, is if they make the witchdoctor unique enough for a necro to be allowed in the expansion, and the necro would have to have his skill types changed enough to stray away from the witchdoctors qualities, or from now till launch, the witchdoctor will have to have some things changed. Or it could be that the necromancer is just gone for good. (i love the necro and hate to see him go). Also remember back in D2 that all 5 classes were extremely unique and different from eachother. It will be the same way in D3. So right now the possibility of a necromancer is very grim. Because if they added it, it would be like having two necros. Which would go against their roots of having vastly different classes.

So with that in mind, we definitely have 2 down and 3 to go (for D3classic).
The classes left in d2 are sorc, amazon, paladin, assassin, druid. With sorc, zons, and paladins being a thousand times more popular than assassins and druids, it seems more likely there will be some version of them in D3classic. There's alot of speculation about that image of a guy with a wolf hat and a snake being a druid, however, blizzard wouldnt release the third class on accident like that, im pretty sure thats either random art or its just a female witch doctor. It seems most likely its a female witch doctor. Witch doctors can definitely be seen wielding a snake and the wolf head is very naturelike. The artists arent always technical anyways. So i have a feeling that is just concept art for the female witch doctor. Also keep in mind that druids and witchdoctors are almost alike in some ways so that it would be kind of weird for them to release a witchdoctor and druid in d3classic. But we might see a druid in the expansion, or might not. Remember there are now druids in WoW and the Diablo 3 team is strong on keeping this game away from being anything like WoW.

Altough the assassin is sexy and cool and they had good intent with her in D2EXP, she definitely wont be in D3classic. However elements of her might be put in other characters. Also keep in mind that WoW has a hunter who uses alot of traps...and as i said before, the Diablo 3 team is steering away from WoW as much as possible. So they might take elements and qualities of the assassin and implament them into the new classes of Diablo 3.

So that rules out the possibility of a druid, assassin, or necromancer in the initial launch of Diablo3. I spose all that could have been explained in a few words but what the hey I love talking about the Diablo series.

Now ...to fill the other 3 spots.

Two things are clear: One, the Diablo 3 team is not afraid to incorporate new, dynamic classes into Diablo 3 (such as the witch doctor). Two, they are definitely okay with adding exact Diablo2 classes to Diablo 3 (the barbarian is still called the barbarian and his skills are still pretty much the same type, with the same type of play style). So with this in mind, I definitely see a possibility of the Zon, Sorc, or Pally returning in some form or another. They definitely want to stay true to their roots but still have a new game, so although it would be totally awesome if they just made replicas of the Zon, Sorc, and Pally (as they did with the Barb), I highly doubt they will. Since they already showed they aren't afraid to add a new class like the Witchdoctor. So which ones will get the axe and which ones will stay pretty much the same?(like the Barb). That is SUCH a hard choice! The Paladin, Sorceress, and Amazon are all such an essential part of the Diablo2 game...it would almost seem unfair that the barb got to go to Diablo 3 but the rest of his padres didnt get to tag along.

Since Paladins are in WoW now though, and a huge part of that game, I highly doubt the new pally in Diablo 3 will be called a Paladin. So that rules out the Paladin name in D3classic. But there will definitely be an armorclad knight-in-shining armor defender of justic and peace, warrior of the light, in Diablo3classic. without a doubt, i bet anything on that. However just exactly what he will be called and how he will be, it's hard to say. Alot of stuff the paladin was in D2 is now found in WoW (Auras for example, which are a core element to the paladin in D2, was stolen by WoW). The problem I am having is, if they make the paladin a holy spell casting + healing guy + defense guy + aura guy, it sounds like u are just making the paladin from WoW! unfortunately. (i really wish WoW didnt exist)

But no matter what they end up copying from WoW (even though WoW stole it from D2 to begin with) they will definitely have a knight-in-shining-armor guy for one of the character slots in D3classic. names he might be: Lancer, Knight, Avenger, Crusader, Cleric, etc

So that leaves the Sorc left and the Amazon. Obviously, with classes all being dual gender now, the names will not be the same. Amazon cannot be at least, but Sorc could still be. (Sorcerer and Sorceress) However it seems they are keeping the names nuetral (dual-gender friendly). (like how you don't need to change barbarian or witchdoctor to a female version). So that rules out the possiblity of it still being called a Sorc. So with the names Amazon and Sorc ruled out, we need new names. But the classes will still be there. Obviously there will definitely be a pure damage-based casting crazy magic guy like the Sorc in d2 and there will definitely be a bow/ranged weapon user, without a doubt. So although its impossible for them to keep the names, their spirits will live on. I know this for SURE because they are keeping the spirit of the necro and the barb so if they are doing it with those two (that's 2/5) they would have to do it with the rest.

There's a whole slew of names for the new caster. However names it CANNOT be are obviously: Warlock, Mage, Sorc. Which shrinks the names it can be. Only leaving: Archimage, Wizard, Conjurer, Sage. (theres more i just can't think of them at the moment)

The final class, the bow user, with the spirit of the Zon in mind, will be something like a Ranger, maybe with elements of the assassin thrown in. I know that's starting to sound like a rogue with a bow. But meh, it might work. However the amazon was so hugely popular in Diablo2 they might just make a new version of it like they did with the barb. (the name can't stay the same though do to obviously complications as mentioned before (amazon is a female only name). However what the name will be is really hard to tell. Hunter is out, obviously (it is the most grossly overused class in WoW). So that leaves names like Ranger, or Stalker. And it won't be a Rogue since the ROGUE is super popular in WoW.

Really', I am very interested in seeing what they end up naming the new Amazon, Sorc, and Pally. However, I definitely believe it is their objective to have the spirits of the five original diablo 2 classes live in diablo 3. I am willing to bet everything on that. (since they have already done that with the necro and barb).

U never know they could throw a left fielder and come out with a brand new class and just dump one of the classic ones. However, I really hope that doesn't happen. The Sorc, Zon, and Paladin type classes are essential to the Diablo series, at this point. If you get rid of any of them, it wouldn't make sense that they brought the Barbarian back (word for word) and the Necro (although new name, same concept). So it seems clear to me that the original five class concepts of diablo 2 will be back in diablo 3, in some form or another. And the expansion will have two random odd balls, or something they forgot.

Using this basis, here is my list of class names in Diablo 3 (pure random guess):

Barbarian, Witch Doctor, Conjurer, Ranger, Knight

Based on the principal [outline] that Blizzard is reviving the spirits of the original five classes of Diablo 2, what do you think they will all be called ?

and gomenasai... for the wall of text...

[Manovan]

I agree on some of what you wrote.

The only thing that's pretty obvious as of now, is that there will be 2 melee type classes, 2 caster type classes and 1 ranged type class.

The #1 melee class is the Barbarian with brute strength, shouts and the ability to massacre at full speed. Some additions could be made to the Barbarian to get some more diversity to its gameplay. Taking influences from the D2 Paladin could be one solution, where the bravery and nobility of the Barbarian will give aura like bonuses to the team. That way the Paladin auras won't be necessary because the Barbarian's buffs will be passive (unless they stick to buffs by shouting).

The #2 melee class could be a Cleric; a variation of the D2 Paladin (a holy warrior) but influenced by the assassin and priest from WoW. They would mainly have sword and shield but could have dagger specialization. They would have holy damage spells and heals, mainly melee (but with some ranged diversion). They could have the auras still, but their focus would be holy melee combat.

The #1 caster type class is the Witch doctor which rules out the Necromancer. If a Necromancer would be added, it would have to be changed from bone+poison+summons to frost+poison+summons to add more elements to the caster classes. I always played Poisonmancer in D2:LoD so it's sad to see the Necro go, but I will definately try out the Witch doctor (and if I know Blizzard right, I will be pleased with the results).

The #2 caster type class could be a Demonologist type, with frost spells, shadow spells and demonology spells (such as metamorphosis, banishing, enslaving demons etc.).

The #1 ranged type class would most likely be a merge of the Amazon and the Assassin. Let's call it Dark Ranger/Shadow Ranger. The focus would be on ranged combat, traps and survivability(endurance/melee/defense).

[Goddess Belldandy]

I agree on some of what you wrote.

The only thing that's pretty obvious as of now, is that there will be 2 melee type classes, 2 caster type classes and 1 ranged type class.

The #1 melee class is the Barbarian with brute strength, shouts and the ability to massacre at full speed. Some additions could be made to the Barbarian to get some more diversity to its gameplay. Taking influences from the D2 Paladin could be one solution, where the bravery and nobility of the Barbarian will give aura like bonuses to the team. That way the Paladin auras won't be necessary because the Barbarian's buffs will be passive (unless they stick to buffs by shouting).

The #2 melee class could be a Cleric; a variation of the D2 Paladin (a holy warrior) but influenced by the assassin and priest from WoW. They would mainly have sword and shield but could have dagger specialization. They would have holy damage spells and heals, mainly melee (but with some ranged diversion). They could have the auras still, but their focus would be holy melee combat.

The #1 caster type class is the Witch doctor which rules out the Necromancer. If a Necromancer would be added, it would have to be changed from bone+poison+summons to frost+poison+summons to add more elements to the caster classes. I always played Poisonmancer in D2:LoD so it's sad to see the Necro go, but I will definately try out the Witch doctor (and if I know Blizzard right, I will be pleased with the results).

The #2 caster type class could be a Demonologist type, with frost spells, shadow spells and demonology spells (such as metamorphosis, banishing, enslaving demons etc.).

The #1 ranged type class would most likely be a merge of the Amazon and the Assassin. Let's call it Dark Ranger/Shadow Ranger. The focus would be on ranged combat, traps and survivability(endurance/melee/defense).

I think your 2, 2, and 1 outline is a good idea.

I also used to make poisonmancers so it is indeed sad to see him go. However, like you said, I guess it could be possible to have a necro still if you changed it to frost, poison, summons. And with witch doctor having fire, that leaves the elements of: lightning, wind, and earth. Which almost sounds like a version of a shaman. So that would end up ruling out a pure-mage-like class. So i doubt they will throw in a modified necromancer along with the witch doctor because of this. (unfortunately). However I spose if they feel a typical mage isn't necessary, and go for something different, as you suggested, such as a dark/shadow magic user with demon spells..that could work. However, you just ended up describing a Warlock from WoW.

Hmm I will have to say they will definitely have to have a class like the Sorc, because of all these other complications of doing anything different. There will be a pure magic based class with at least three main magic types. I think lightning and ice will definitely still be there. The other one, is up for question. I spose they could keep it at two though. And if it turns out the witch doctor has few fire spires, the new-sorc could still have fire spells.

I agree with ur idea on the cleric. he will definitely be a melee guy. because the paladin was also great at melee combat. and your ideas on his abilities seem unique enough to work (without making a WoW paladin dupe). However i dont think the barbarian will lose his shouts and gain auras. The concept of the "shout" seems to fit a barbarian much better. Perhaps they will keep auras with the new-paladin class for D3 but just do the best they can to make sure none of them copy WoW's paladin. Even if he is a cleric though ..he will need to be profecient in the heavy armor. because if he wasnt, then the barbarian would be the only class wearing heavy plate armor , and the barbarians style is rougher and grimmer. and I think a "knight-shining-armor" with gleaming, beautiful full plate armor is a must have for the Diablo series. so whatever the new paladin ends of being, he will have to be a heavy armor type class. it wouldn't be right without it. (cus the rest of the classes are cloth or leather)

spicing up the amazon a bit and making it a "dark" or "shadow" ranger type class would definitely be cool. And i dont see any complications with that route. perhaps instead of magic arrows it would have shadow arrows. and multishot would be an easy skill to incorporate in the realm of shadow magic. so that definitely could work. alot of ppl think the new zon will be a combo of the zon and assassin. which is basically a shadow ranger. so this is posisble. however they might just stick with a typical archer class..so they dont have to limit the class to one type of path. the real complication comes with javalins. im in a toss up on that one. will they want to keep a javalin type tree in for the new ranged user of d3? or will they throw it out, leaving room for a new skill tree. (im speaking in d2 terms when i say skill trees and also that im just assuming its 3 skill trees, i know it probably not going to be anything like that in diablo3 but im just using references of things i already understand to help convey my thoughts on the issue).

really when it comes down to it. i still think blizzard is going down the path of reviving the original 5 class concepts of diablo 2 classic. this is almost proven with the simple fact of the barbarian re-appearing and the witch doctor being the d3 version of the necro. However they love to spice things up, so you never know. They could just ignore all logic and make totally new random classes. But they would really upset a huge fanbase for sorcs, zons, and pallies. And not only that, it just seems like there's no way around using these class types in order to keep the game true to its roots as they say they are doing.

[Manovan]

I think your 2, 2, and 1 outline is a good idea.

I also used to make poisonmancers so it is indeed sad to see him go. However, like you said, I guess it could be possible to have a necro still if you changed it to frost, poison, summons. And with witch doctor having fire, that leaves the elements of: lightning, wind, and earth. Which almost sounds like a version of a shaman. So that would end up ruling out a pure-mage-like class. So i doubt they will throw in a modified necromancer along with the witch doctor because of this. (unfortunately). However I spose if they feel a typical mage isn't necessary, and go for something different, as you suggested, such as a dark/shadow magic user with demon spells..that could work. However, you just ended up describing a Warlock from WoW.

...

spicing up the amazon a bit and making it a "dark" or "shadow" ranger type class would definitely be cool. And i dont see any complications with that route. perhaps instead of magic arrows it would have shadow arrows. and multishot would be an easy skill to incorporate in the realm of shadow magic. so that definitely could work. alot of ppl think the new zon will be a combo of the zon and assassin. which is basically a shadow ranger. so this is posisble. however they might just stick with a typical archer class..so they dont have to limit the class to one type of path. the real complication comes with javalins. im in a toss up on that one. will they want to keep a javalin type tree in for the new ranged user of d3? or will they throw it out, leaving room for a new skill tree. (im speaking in d2 terms when i say skill trees and also that im just assuming its 3 skill trees, i know it probably not going to be anything like that in diablo3 but im just using references of things i already understand to help convey my thoughts on the issue).


I didn't really picture the WoW Warlock when suggesting the Demonology class. Though I might have done it subconsciously because my main character in WoW has always been a Warlock. What I did picture was more of the AoC type Demonologist but with the frost spells of the AoC Necro or the WoW Death Knight. If fire is a big part of the Witch Doctor, then it's counterpart frost should be important for the second caster type (assuming there will be no traditional mage archetype). The Demonologist class for D3 I had in mind isn't really a pet type class (but it would have a skill similiar of mind control that will temporarily enslave demon monsters). I imagined it more like a destructive frost/shadow caster with shapeshifting abilities, making it able to take the shape of demonic beings similiar to the D2 Werewolf/-bear. It could be similiar to the Sorceress, but corrupted because it has played with demonic magics. This way, those who missed the darkness of the Necromancer would find that in the Demonologist (but with a mixture of Sorceress+Druid spells) and those who misses the necrotic summonings would find that in the Witch Doctor.

A suggestion for the Shadow Ranger would be using poison as a primary way of dealing damage. That way the player can ensnare his opponents, poison them, put up traps making poisonous gas clouds and choose to finish them off from afar or in close combat. I can see javelins being used by the Shadow Ranger, and not just the bows/crossbows. It wouldn't be a typical archer. Neither would it be an assassin. It would have a unique feeling to it.

[sneakytails]

spicing up the amazon a bit and making it a "dark" or "shadow" ranger type class would definitely be cool. And i dont see any complications with that route.

I do... its called the Javelin and SPEAR TREE Believe it or not some of us like to play amazons who use spears. Stop generalizing and saying that the zon only represents bows only. I dont think that a character that uses only one type of attack (bow) is a replacement for the zon who could use three types for the same build. (bow, spear and javelin)

Its like replacing a swiss army knife with a plastic butter knife. Any replacement (or hopeful re-introduction) of the amazon needs to keep in mind her dual function nature.


(cus the rest of the classes are cloth or leather)

If a mage or caster type char wants to wear heavy plate armor and spend the strength points in order to do so, then let them. I like the freedom in d2lod. It creates variety.

[Goddess Belldandy]

I didn't really picture the WoW Warlock when suggesting the Demonology class. Though I might have done it subconsciously because my main character in WoW has always been a Warlock.

Lol, I know what you mean. However, I realized that you didn't do that on purpose. I was just making sure you knew it sounded alot like the WoW Warlock from what you were first describing. And I just wanted to make sure you didn't accidently do that, because there's no way Diablo3 will have a class identical to any of the WoW classes. That would go against the physics of reality. The entire universe would disappear (the real universe).


What I did picture was more of the AoC type Demonologist but with the frost spells of the AoC Necro or the WoW Death Knight.


Ahh okay I think I see what you are saying now. That could definitely work. But not a Death Knight. Death Knight will be the newest thing in WoW and very popular there. Plus death knights use heavy armor and swords. So it would end up not even being close to a mage. However your idea on an AoC type Demonologist definitely works. It would seem kind of quirky and odd to have a demonologist with frost spells though, since you always imagine demonology with fire. However if you are just saying he would be a sort of "pure evil" type magic user, that is possible, but then you end up eliminating any possibility for a sorceress type class. (cus there will be a range bow user and paladin replacement without a doubt). So i highly doubt there will be a pure evil magic user. Also you cannot forget that the witch doctor is supposed to be the new "evil" good guy on our team, replacing the necro. I am sure he will end up having plenty of more evil spells.


If fire is a big part of the Witch Doctor, then it's counterpart frost should be important for the second caster type (assuming there will be no traditional mage archetype).

I spose going that route, which would be tricky, could work. What you are basically doing is, is making a hybrid necro/sorc and a hybrid necro/sorc. I know I said the same thing in each type, I did that on purpose. Because essentially thats would you would be doing, is mixing up the magic types with both to make two new characters. (to keep with the spice of a new game). However it still seems too tricky and risky to go that route. People love having a traditional (generic-mage-like) pure magic type user. There's never been any RPG without one.


The Demonologist class for D3 I had in mind isn't really a pet type class (but it would have a skill similiar of mind control that will temporarily enslave demon monsters).

hmm, i'm not sure. having demon-control abilities is too much like the old skills of the necromancer. and since the witch doctor is the new necro, if there ends up being any monster controlling, i have a feeling it will be the witch doctor doing it. the witch doctor has pets ..and although the druid had a small number of wolf pets in the expansion of diablo 2, i doubt the initial diablo 3 game will come with two classes with pet capabilities. especially with en mass type tactics. the real question is will the witch doctor be able to make skellies. if he can't then he will disappoint alot of hardcore necro fans. but they could always end up keeping the witch doctor more nature-like in his spells (fire, poison, spiritual) and then have an expansion with a dark evil caster who has Dark magic and Skeletons. However lets not forget that the witch doctor can do bone walls...which definitely nearly rules out the need for a necromancer. Because bone walls implies other bone spells. But maybe that was a fluke who knows. Cus he already has locus swarm which is kind of nature/poison like. he already has summoning. and he already has some sort of spirit monster guy attack thing. and he has fire magic. so im willing to bet he doesnt also have a whole skill tree for bone spells. but u never know maybe its just a side thing for him. he is a witch doctor after all and they can definitely do bone magic. either way it seems to get real messy when digging dipping into the complexities and complications of these new classes and the possibilities for them. i really wish they would just darn tell us already so im stop wasting my breath lol. (Cus im sure they've all be decided permanently already).



I imagined it more like a destructive frost/shadow caster with shapeshifting abilities, making it able to take the shape of demonic beings similiar to the D2 Werewolf/-bear.


This is possible, and definitely something that would spice the game up. (who wouldn't want to turn into a demon form?) However the main complications of this go back to what I said before about how there isn't room for a pure dark type magic user because then you get rid. At least not in the initial game.


It could be similiar to the Sorceress, but corrupted because it has played with demonic magics. This way, those who missed the darkness of the Necromancer would find that in the Demonologist (but with a mixture of Sorceress+Druid spells) and those who misses the necrotic summonings would find that in the Witch Doctor.


Basically two versions of hybrid sorc/necros like i said before. And this can work in the basis that it keeps true to keeping all the elements of Diablo2 in intact. However I doubt they will do it because those type of hybrid classes are a little too unique and stray a little too far away from the core classes and spirits of the original 5. Even if the Diablo 3 team doesn't really intend to keep the 5 original classes intact (like they are doing so far), the type of classes you are describing just wouldn't balance out. A dark sorc, a dark ranger, a dark witch doctor...there's just too much dark in the scenario. In order to balance out, it can't have so many "dark" themed characters. It works out much better just keeping a generic mage-like guy.


A suggestion for the Shadow Ranger would be using poison as a primary way of dealing damage.

I suppose that can work. However then your skill types end up being: Poison, Traps, Passive, Shadow, (melee?). If there's going to be poison in the game, I'm willing to bet the witch doctor will end up having some.


That way the player can ensnare his opponents, poison them, put up traps making poisonous gas clouds and choose to finish them off from afar or in close combat.

You are getting dangerously close to a WoW-replica of the Hunter class. I really hope the Diablo 3 team doesn't make the new-amazon capable of melee combat. I love how in Diablo2 you could spam arrows at any range and never had to worry about melee combat skills. It's nice when you can focus all of your power, items, and skills, into only ranged attacks. It was fun being a zon and just spamming arrows. And if you end up going the route of melee/ranged that traps you; you end up becoming just like a hunter in WoW and I highly doubt they will want your play experience to be anything like that. They said they want a fast paced action rpg and I am sure they will do just that. Placing traps and having some meager melee fighting abilities would be useless for the new-amazon. Whatever the new ranged class will be, it will definitely be capable of doing some wicked fast paced damage. It's objective should be to kill the mass of skellies approaching you before they get within melee combat range. But still be able to shoot your bow no matter what the range.


I can see javelins being used by the Shadow Ranger, and not just the bows/crossbows. It wouldn't be a typical archer. Neither would it be an assassin.

Although, at first, javelins on a Shadow Ranger sounds kinda weird. However I think I remember reading some lore on shadow rangers with javelins before. So I guess in the realm of fantasy it's possible. However remember that if you make this class shadow-like and the magic user dark-evil, you are running into the problem of having too many evil-type dudes. It wouldn't hurt too much, overall, to get rid of javelins anyways. They were a pretty big part of the Javezons in d2 and still are but it's not like you are getting rid of bows. Which is an example of something impossible.



It would have a unique feeling to it.

Yes I hope it's unique and I am sure it will be. Blizzard is notorious for making original things no matter what the circumstances, and still being able to keep the gameplay flowing and fun.

[Manovan]

I do... its called the Javelin and SPEAR TREE Believe it or not some of us like to play amazons who use spears. Stop generalizing and saying that the zon only represents bows only. I dont think that a character that uses only one type of attack (bow) is a replacement for the zon who could use three types for the same build. (bow, spear and javelin)

Its like replacing a swiss army knife with a plastic butter knife. Any replacement (or hopeful re-introduction) of the amazon needs to keep in mind her dual function nature.

I see no problem in having javelin specializations for Shadow Rangers. The javelin and the bow/crossbow talent tree could be mixed in one, and then you can have a shadowy figure with poison attacks and a javelin. It would loose some weapon specific skills for both javelins and bows, but the traps and survival spells would make up for it.

[sneakytails]

I would be happy with that as long as you mean spear and javelin skills and not just Javelins like you typed. Remember I am talking about spears here too.

Its so early in the game, its almost hard to discuss this stuff without stretching. We might not even have skill trees in D3 as we know them.

[Goddess Belldandy]

I do... its called the Javelin and SPEAR TREE Believe it or not some of us like to play amazons who use spears. Stop generalizing and saying that the zon only represents bows only. I dont think that a character that uses only one type of attack (bow) is a replacement for the zon who could use three types for the same build. (bow, spear and javelin)

Its like replacing a swiss army knife with a plastic butter knife. Any replacement (or hopeful re-introduction) of the amazon needs to keep in mind her dual function nature.


I figured I would end up angering the Javelin Amazons out there. I apologize. I'm sure the Diablo 3 is well aware of your fanbase and will not dissapoint you. I am just speculating sporadically really. Plus I am a little biased, I've tried the javazon before but never really saw what was so great about them besides their cow pwnage. ^^ However, I can see how, using my kinetic imagery, that the affect of a javelin in the types of tight levels we are seeing in alot of the demos would be very effective and practical. So it definitely seems like a great idea to keep javelins and their skills in the game. But for any environment, even an open one, like the cow level, javs are still great. And i'm sure the Diablo 3 team hasn't forgotten about them.


If a mage or caster type char wants to wear heavy plate armor and spend the strength points in order to do so, then let them. I like the freedom in d2lod. It creates variety.

That's not exactly what I meant. I definitely agree any class should be able to put on whatever they want. I am not saying that. What I am saying is...the game, in general, must have a "Knight-in-shining" armor themed guy to replace the paladin. A guy with either a mace or sword, and a shield. Or just a big sword. Who wears a gleaming full set of armor, and goes gallanty into battle with a holy sword. Lol. You get the idea. And I think it's essential the Diablo 3 game still has a guy like that. Like the paladin. And imagine, you will have female versions of these shiney warriors.

I would be happy with that as long as you mean spear and javelin skills and not just Javelins like you typed. Remember I am talking about spears here too.

Its so early in the game, its almost hard to discuss this stuff without stretching. We might not even have skill trees in D3 as we know them.

Yes let's not forget the Spearazons. However, if you end up keeping Spear skills, Jave Skills, Bow Skills, and Passive skills...You end up just making a Zon again. (which is fine by me, but once again, the gender issue). So How they deal with this I don't know. I suppose you could have a Shadow Ranger with these ablities, for they are known to be profecient in the way of the Spear as well. It's hard to say.

And like you said, it's so early, everything we say may as well be totally wrong. Really no different than talking about the game before it was even announced. However since the barb and wd are official..those give us the major clues as for what the other 3 will be. hence, this thread.

[sneakytails]

What I am saying is...the game, in general, must have a "Knight-in-shining" armor themed guy to replace the paladin.

I agree on a guy with shiny armor, But I personally don't see why 20 years after LOD occurred that Paladins (or amazons) would disapear from sanctuary in the first place, hence why replace them completely or even at all. Maybe they changed somewhat and have studied different skills but dissapearing?

This is why merging characters in the first place is risky. It ignores the lore behind the characters themselves.

But perhaps all of our favorite characters will return tweaked in a expansion
later on. And combining certain traits from two characters is blizzards way of expanding the world of sanctuary with new classes in the immediate future.

[Manovan]

However your idea on an AoC type Demonologist definitely works. It would seem kind of quirky and odd to have a demonologist with frost spells though, since you always imagine demonology with fire. However if you are just saying he would be a sort of "pure evil" type magic user, that is possible, but then you end up eliminating any possibility for a sorceress type class. (cus there will be a range bow user and paladin replacement without a doubt). So i highly doubt there will be a pure evil magic user. Also you cannot forget that the witch doctor is supposed to be the new "evil" good guy on our team, replacing the necro. I am sure he will end up having plenty of more evil spells.
Another dark caster could be an issue yes, but we know too little of the lore updates to make those kind of assumptions (yet). And as the crew from Blizzard said in one of their panels (I think it was the Denizens of Diablo III one), they talked about the darkness of Sanctuary having its effect on people's psyche. So who would be a hero in this world if not one who has impaled his own feet with bones? I don't know enough Diablo lore to speculate too much, but I believe it could be possible to have one brand of magic using archetypes developing into shapeshifting hybrids (but maybe not really Necro influenced). They could still use fire/frost/lightning/arcane but being corrupted in the process, adding a shapeshifting talent to the game. Though this could very well be an addition for a future expansion set.


However lets not forget that the witch doctor can do bone walls...which definitely nearly rules out the need for a necromancer. Because bone walls implies other bone spells. But maybe that was a fluke who knows. Cus he already has locus swarm which is kind of nature/poison like. he already has summoning. and he already has some sort of spirit monster guy attack thing. and he has fire magic. so im willing to bet he doesnt also have a whole skill tree for bone spells. but u never know maybe its just a side thing for him. he is a witch doctor after all and they can definitely do bone magic. either way it seems to get real messy when digging dipping into the complexities and complications of these new classes and the possibilities for them. i really wish they would just darn tell us already so im stop wasting my breath lol. (Cus im sure they've all be decided permanently already).
If a Witch Doctor can do bone magic is unkown. We haven't seen a Bone Wall, but a Wall of Zombies this far. Though some kind of bone magic could be part of the their summoning spells, but I doubt it. I think their focus is on voodoo summonings, fire bombs, various disease attacks and curses.

You are getting dangerously close to a WoW-replica of the Hunter class. I really hope the Diablo 3 team doesn't make the new-amazon capable of melee combat. I love how in Diablo2 you could spam arrows at any range and never had to worry about melee combat skills. It's nice when you can focus all of your power, items, and skills, into only ranged attacks. It was fun being a zon and just spamming arrows. And if you end up going the route of melee/ranged that traps you; you end up becoming just like a hunter in WoW and I highly doubt they will want your play experience to be anything like that. They said they want a fast paced action rpg and I am sure they will do just that. Placing traps and having some meager melee fighting abilities would be useless for the new-amazon. Whatever the new ranged class will be, it will definitely be capable of doing some wicked fast paced damage. It's objective should be to kill the mass of skellies approaching you before they get within melee combat range. But still be able to shoot your bow no matter what the range.
The Amazon could be a melee class (spears) so the Shadow Ranger would support such a specc, but it would still be the primary ranged combat class. I disagree that it would be close to WoW Hunters when it comes to gameplay, because the traps would be more similiar to those of the D2:LoD Assassin combined with fast paced ranged attacks (or melee if you want a spear). I can assume Shadow Rangers focusing on ranged combat to mainly do poison inflicted bow spells at a far distance, while the melee spear Shadow Rangers will rely more on casting traps while dealing damage.


Although, at first, javelins on a Shadow Ranger sounds kinda weird. However I think I remember reading some lore on shadow rangers with javelins before. So I guess in the realm of fantasy it's possible. However remember that if you make this class shadow-like and the magic user dark-evil, you are running into the problem of having too many evil-type dudes. It wouldn't hurt too much, overall, to get rid of javelins anyways. They were a pretty big part of the Javezons in d2 and still are but it's not like you are getting rid of bows. Which is an example of something impossible.
I disagree. Sanctuary is very dark and it's common for the heroes to be in a dark or morally gray zone. While Necromancers and possible Demonologists would be within the dark, the Witch Doctors are more of their tribe's morale values (not necessarily dark) and the Shadow Rangers could be in a morally gray zone.

[Goddess Belldandy]

I agree on a guy with shiny armor, But I personally don't see why 20 years after LOD occurred that Paladins (or amazons) would disapear from sanctuary in the first place, hence why replace them completely or even at all. Maybe they changed somewhat and have studied different skills but dissapearing?

This is why merging characters in the first place is risky. It ignores the lore behind the characters themselves.

But perhaps all of our favorite characters will return tweaked in a expansion
later on. And combining certain traits from two characters is blizzards way of expanding the world of sanctuary with new classes in the immediate future.

Seriously, thank you for bringing up that issue. I totally overlooked such a crucial factor in this analysis.

Lore is indeed very important here. And the Diablo 3 team clearly stated they are staying true to the story and the world.

Therefore, I am even more convinced that the possiblity of any new radical hybrid classes is just impossible. It would certainly jeopardize the fabric of the lore if you just started crossing classes all over. So, either a brand new class or the same ones as before but with a little spice (such as the witch doctor). That's about all they can do. And a brand new class only works if it fits in the lore.

Thank you so much for bringing up such an important factor, I totally overlooked it.

[Manovan]

Seriously, thank you for bringing up that issue. I totally overlooked such a crucial factor in this analysis.

Lore is indeed very important here. And the Diablo 3 team clearly stated they are staying true to the story and the world.

Therefore, I am even more convinced that the possiblity of any new radical hybrid classes is just impossible. Either a brand new class or the same ones as before but with a little spice (such as the witch doctor). That's about all they can do. And a brand new class only works if it fits in the lore.

Thank you so much for bringing up such an important factor, I totally overlooked it.
Keep in mind though that it's the crew that create the lore. If they see one kind of class being necessary, they can easily tweak the lore with changes that would allow this new class - being a hybrid or not. Lore is not set in stone. And in 20 years, much can happen to the classes we know and love. The necromancers and assassins could have gone underground, the amazons could be forced to protect their own homelands, the paladin order can be corrupted or disbanded, the druids could be hugging some trees. Remember that those are archetype classes, while the world might still be populated with people similiar but vastly different from those. The lore is not a limitation, it's just the opposite.

[korialstraz]

One thing I not have seen mentioned here is that while the developers want to stay true to the lore, no one thought about what Richard Knaak has said. I don't remember the exact words, but something along the lines of "I'm not writing for a dead world, just a world with dead in" or something. I also remember (I think) that he was writing stories that would be used as basis for Diablo lore and story. If that's true then we have a lot of stuff to speculate in.

Note: All of this is based on the Diablo novels written by Knaak.

For example Necromancers are core characters to the world of Sanctuary. They are not (at least not all of them) twisted dark little beings working dark and evil magic, but defenders of Sanctuary and the lifeform on it. They are just misunderstood based in their nature of extracting information from the dead, and sometimes even using them as tools of destruction. In the series Necromancers rarely summon the dead, but uses bone spells (Teeth and Claws of Trag'Oul IIRC), curses and their dagger to overcome foes.

However there is the Witch Doctor which in a sense can take over for the Necro class. I could see how both can fit in the game, but then there would be problems with the 2 melee, 2 caster and 1 ranged char speculation. At this moment I would say it's too early to tell what will happen with the WD/Necro debate, since I can see WD taking over the Necro part but I can also see both of them working in the game. It's mainly based on the character description of the WD and the different background story that race has compared to Necros, and potentioally what kind of skills/spells that character will get.

One other important aspect of the Diablo Lore is paladins. Holy knights and defenders of light, they are and is a big part of the lore. They are the "visible" protectors of Sanctuary battling evil wherever it is, and Sanctuary is filled with evil, demons, undead and other hellish creatures. I can definately see the Paladin coming back, but it also being more of a Cleric type of character. He can easily hold his own in close combat with a variation of defensive and offensive skills, while still being able to summon the power to heal himself and his allies. But since they are going to make D3 available for singleplayer, they can't rely too much on those red orbs and a healing char for people to stay alive. As it is now I just can't see pots being removed (but it can change) from the game.

Since it seems we will have a male and female version of the chars the Amazon must be changed. The skills don't really need to change much, but the name of the class can't stay the same. I could see a Rougue taking it's place, being able to use bows and xbows while still being able to wield javalines and spears. Perhaps even introduce a dual wielding aspect to the character. Like a char using a sword for attack and a dagger of sorts for defensive meassures, while still keeping the ability to dogde attacks.

Another important part is magic. It doesn't have to be a sorc, but at least an all out magical character. The mage clans is known to have both males and females, so that could work with the male/female part being added in D3. While it hasn't been as huge a part of the lore as Necros and paladins (basing it on the novels written by Knaak) it's definately present. Mage clans is one thing, but there was also mention of a person in one of his novels starting to unveil magical powers but traveling in the company of a Necro. Perhaps we will see some mix of this, though I doubt that. But the game does need a pure magic wielding character, relying on his/her magical abilities for defence and offence.

Then there is the shapeshifting/magic using character. It hasn't (as far as I remember) been mentioned at all in the novels, which leads me back to the WD. The goatmen is actually WD's that was transformed to battle the mage clans, and is the char I think will get shapeshifting abilities. If that's what will happen I can definately see a place for the necro, but instead of focusing so much on summons it will be more bone oriented with curses to aid in battle. The curses can get some interesting offensive abilities, like changing how they work, and maybe even combine different curses for devestating effects. One example his how the life tap spell is used in one of the novels. It draws the life essence into the Necromancer himself, but doing so with evil creatures can be extremely dangerous since you may take on some abilities of the creature you drew the life force from. However this is based on the Novels, and reading on Blizzards homepage, the Necromancer there is displayed as being able to raise the dead, and producing armies of the undead. So far this would be very similar to the wall of undead seen in the game play trailer, which could mean Necros will not be a playable character. I do hope that's not the case since if Blizzard is going to stay more true to the lore, Necros should be a huge part of this.

So I think the classes we may see is alongside the Barb and WD:

Mage (the pure elemental character)
Paladin/Cleric (the defender of light)
Rougue/Ranger (same as Amazon from D2)
Shapeshifting char (only if the WD will not get these skills)
Necromancer (if the WD will focuse om shapeshifting abilities)

That's 7 chars I know, but Blizzard didn't say that there would only be 5 chars for the release, and as with D2 we may get more classes in an expansion. If we don't see the classes from D2 so much, they should at least be part of the game as NPCs to help keeping the story moving.

That's my thoughts based on the info we have so far =]

[Goddess Belldandy]

Another dark caster could be an issue yes, but we know too little of the lore updates to make those kind of assumptions (yet). And as the crew from Blizzard said in one of their panels (I think it was the Denizens of Diablo III one), they talked about the darkness of Sanctuary having its effect on people's psyche. So who would be a hero in this world if not one who has impaled his own feet with bones? I don't know enough Diablo lore to speculate too much, but I believe it could be possible to have one brand of magic using archetypes developing into shapeshifting hybrids (but maybe not really Necro influenced). They could still use fire/frost/lightning/arcane but being corrupted in the process, adding a shapeshifting talent to the game. Though this could very well be an addition for a future expansion set.


That aspect of the lore could possibly allow more dark classes, but I don't think 3/5 will be dark in the first game. But like you said, they could be added in the expansion. However, a caster with fire/frost/lightning/arcane/shapeshifting is a little much.... (maybe i misread lol) It's mostly the game design that would be troubled by a 3/5 dark characters. Diablo has never had a game with a majority of dark magic type/otherwise morbid characters. And although many ideas sound nice, remember that any hybrid you make has to be a real type of race/class from the diablo world itself.



If a Witch Doctor can do bone magic is unkown. We haven't seen a Bone Wall, but a Wall of Zombies this far. Though some kind of bone magic could be part of the their summoning spells, but I doubt it. I think their focus is on voodoo summonings, fire bombs, various disease attacks and curses.


My fault. I guess I misheard some people talking about it being bone walls. If it was a Wall of Zombies, then yes, i doubt the Witch Doctor has bone spells. Which leaves hope for the Necro (in the expansion). He will get to be pretty much the same this way...with skelly raising, bone spells, and curses. This would definitely leave room for him in an expansion. So I hope you're right and we see alot more voodoo, fire, and disease attacks from the Witch Doctor.


The Amazon could be a melee class (spears) so the Shadow Ranger would support such a specc, but it would still be the primary ranged combat class. I disagree that it would be close to WoW Hunters when it comes to gameplay, because the traps would be more similiar to those of the D2:LoD Assassin combined with fast paced ranged attacks (or melee if you want a spear).


I see what you are saying. If the traps are still like that of the Assassins, then ya it would be nice. But how in the world are you going to justify the lore in that sort of hybrid? with D2 assassins and D2 amazons both being females...it would be hard to make a new race out of that. Not only that, if you add a whole trap tree to the new-zon of D3, then you are limiting it's options for still having Spear, Bow, Passive, and Jave skills.


I can assume Shadow Rangers focusing on ranged combat to mainly do poison inflicted bow spells at a far distance, while the melee spear Shadow Rangers will rely more on casting traps while dealing damage.


Once again though if you give them poison on top of shadow spells or traps, you are limiting what else they can do. Plus limiting the necro's poison abilities if we see him in the expansion. Really it seems they already had the classes perfectly balanced in D2 and if we start mixing them up it creates alot of complications, game design wise, and lore wise.


I disagree. Sanctuary is very dark and it's common for the heroes to be in a dark or morally gray zone. While Necromancers and possible Demonologists would be within the dark, the Witch Doctors are more of their tribe's morale values (not necessarily dark) and the Shadow Rangers could be in a morally gray zone.

I understand what you are saying with the morally gray zone, and I agree completely. However if you are going to pop a Warlock out of no where you gotta justify the lore behind him. Remember also that no matter where you are talking, there is always a balance of light and dark. So there has to be an even amount of both. And if there's mostly nuetrals and evils, that leaves little left for light, making it lopsided, thus Diablo devours us all.

Keep in mind though that it's the crew that create the lore. If they see one kind of class being necessary, they can easily tweak the lore with changes that would allow this new class - being a hybrid or not. Lore is not set in stone.

True, but at WWI 2008 they definitely said they won't do anything wild with it and are sticking true to the lore behind the game.


And in 20 years, much can happen to the classes we know and love. The necromancers and assassins could have gone underground, the amazons could be forced to protect their own homelands, the paladin order can be corrupted or disbanded, the druids could be hugging some trees. Remember that those are archetype classes, while the world might still be populated with people similiar but vastly different from those. The lore is not a limitation, it's just the opposite.

True, very true. Alot can happen in 20 years. But the core elements of the classes won't change that drastically. Especially when they have been steadfast in their ways for a long time before that. Plus like I said before about the balance between light and dark (which is essential in any fantasy world, especially one that is ALL about the battle between Light and Dark). The problem here is, if everyone has become twisted or dark as you say, then the worlds light and dark would be unbalanced drastically.

It's a little propostorous if the entire holy paladin order were to be corrupted. That would really really put the world out of wack.

[Goddess Belldandy]

For example Necromancers are core characters to the world of Sanctuary. They are not (at least not all of them) twisted dark little beings working dark and evil magic, but defenders of Sanctuary and the lifeform on it. They are just misunderstood based in their nature of extracting information from the dead, and sometimes even using them as tools of destruction. In the series Necromancers rarely summon the dead, but uses bone spells (Teeth and Claws of Trag'Oul IIRC), curses and their dagger to overcome foes.


I understand what you mean, they could easily be misunderstood. I'm not saying that they are evil or dark when I call them that, in the way ...of morals and who they truly serve. I understand their techniques are to twist evil against itself, by using evil against evil. I understand. What I am saying is, when you see 5 character classes on your screen of Diablo 3 to choose from when you first launch the game after you buy it the day it comes out, I highly doubt that 3 out of 5 of the classes will have a "dark look" to them. The necro is a shadowy "look" guy. If you end up making too many that "sort of look" it would imbalance the game design and limit you. And usually a "dark sort of look" implies certain skills and abilities being a certain way, to a degree. I have a feeling diablo 3 will be no different than Diablo 1 and 2 in that when you select a character it will feel like each character is very unique and different from eachother.


However there is the Witch Doctor which in a sense can take over for the Necro class. I could see how both can fit in the game, but then there would be problems with the 2 melee, 2 caster and 1 ranged char speculation. At this moment I would say it's too early to tell what will happen with the WD/Necro debate, since I can see WD taking over the Necro part but I can also see both of them working in the game. It's mainly based on the character description of the WD and the different background story that race has compared to Necros, and potentioally what kind of skills/spells that character will get.


I agree it is still POSSIBLE the necro could show up again in an expansion. (and i think thats what they are kind of saying in the WWI 2008 panels, about how he isn't ruled out by the WD, but they don't really act like hes going to be in Diablo3 at this time). But the way the game currently is, there's no way he can fit in. It definitely will be 2,2, and 1. 3,1,1 wouldn't make alot of sense game design wise. Especially for the initial game.


One other important aspect of the Diablo Lore is paladins. Holy knights and defenders of light, they are and is a big part of the lore. They are the "visible" protectors of Sanctuary battling evil wherever it is, and Sanctuary is filled with evil, demons, undead and other hellish creatures. I can definately see the Paladin coming back, but it also being more of a Cleric type of character. He can easily hold his own in close combat with a variation of defensive and offensive skills, while still being able to summon the power to heal himself and his allies. But since they are going to make D3 available for singleplayer, they can't rely too much on those red orbs and a healing char for people to stay alive. As it is now I just can't see pots being removed (but it can change) from the game.


Potions are NOT being removed from the game. If you re-watch or re-read the WWI 2008 Panels and Q&A, the developers CLEARLY state that potions are still in the game, but their affect on the game as been vastly reduced. So in other words, the potions are either way more rare than before or expensive to get, or hard to get. or the potions just dont heal as much life as before. OR the potions have a cool down. I'm sure it's one of those three possibilities. However, potions ARE still in the game, they just don't want players being able to potion their way through the game like before. (i don't think it was too big of a deal, but meh, what the hey)

And I agree full heartedly...the holy knight will definitely be in Diablo 3. In some form or another. If not exactly the same as before. (like how they did with the barbarian)


Since it seems we will have a male and female version of the chars the Amazon must be changed. The skills don't really need to change much, but the name of the class can't stay the same. I could see a Rougue taking it's place, being able to use bows and xbows while still being able to wield javalines and spears. Perhaps even introduce a dual wielding aspect to the character. Like a char using a sword for attack and a dagger of sorts for defensive meassures, while still keeping the ability to dogde attacks.

The name rogue draws a big complication though. WoW is very huge into Rogues. If Diablo 3 takes the name, then they are going against their own philosophy to be nothing like WoW. Plus it just wouldn't be as original or unique. I doubt it will be called a rogue. Plus a rogue focuses more on melee than ranged. Plus rogues don't really use spears. Way too many complications there with the Zon being replaced by a Rogue.

There's no way the new-zon will be a dual weapon user either. That would take away a unique aspect from the Barbarian. Plus it would create alot of other complications skill wise.


Another important part is magic. It doesn't have to be a sorc, but at least an all out magical character. The mage clans is known to have both males and females, so that could work with the male/female part being added in D3. While it hasn't been as huge a part of the lore as Necros and paladins (basing it on the novels written by Knaak) it's definately present. Mage clans is one thing, but there was also mention of a person in one of his novels starting to unveil magical powers but traveling in the company of a Necro. Perhaps we will see some mix of this, though I doubt that. But the game does need a pure magic wielding character, relying on his/her magical abilities for defence and offence.


Couldn't agree more. Thanks for backing it up with lore. (since I don't read any of the books heh)


Then there is the shapeshifting/magic using character. It hasn't (as far as I remember) been mentioned at all in the novels, which leads me back to the WD. The goatmen is actually WD's that was transformed to battle the mage clans, and is the char I think will get shapeshifting abilities. If that's what will happen I can definately see a place for the necro, but instead of focusing so much on summons it will be more bone oriented with curses to aid in battle. The curses can get some interesting offensive abilities, like changing how they work, and maybe even combine different curses for devestating effects. One example his how the life tap spell is used in one of the novels. It draws the life essence into the Necromancer himself, but doing so with evil creatures can be extremely dangerous since you may take on some abilities of the creature you drew the life force from. However this is based on the Novels, and reading on Blizzards homepage, the Necromancer there is displayed as being able to raise the dead, and producing armies of the undead. So far this would be very similar to the wall of undead seen in the game play trailer, which could mean Necros will not be a playable character. I do hope that's not the case since if Blizzard is going to stay more true to the lore, Necros should be a huge part of this.


Hmmm I don't know. I doubt the witchdoctor will start having a bunch of shapeshifting spells. We did see he had some sort of "spirit attack monster" float above his head. So I believe he might have some sort of "spirit" skill tree (more likely than a shapeshifting tree). Plus the whole "Spirit" thing fits a witch doctor's background well. So in other words, it seems possible to have a necro if the WitchDoctor goes down a path of Fire,Spirit,Poison,Demon Summoning. But still too many similiarities for them both to be present in the initial game.



So I think the classes we may see is alongside the Barb and WD:

Mage (the pure elemental character)
Paladin/Cleric (the defender of light)
Rougue/Ranger (same as Amazon from D2)
Shapeshifting char (only if the WD will not get these skills)
Necromancer (if the WD will focuse om shapeshifting abilities)

That's 7 chars I know, but Blizzard didn't say that there would only be 5 chars for the release, and as with D2 we may get more classes in an expansion. If we don't see the classes from D2 so much, they should at least be part of the game as NPCs to help keeping the story moving.

That's my thoughts based on the info we have so far =]

I highly doubt we will see seven classes in the initial game. If Blizzard is keeping it true to having a free Battle.net then they will need to generate extra revenue from expansions. And if the expansion makes 9 classes total that would be pretty crazy lol. Hence, the topic title, "5 and 2 analysis"... I definitely think they are going in that order. Plus they said groups will focus on 5-6 people. So i guess they have 5 classes set and maybe are considering adding a 6th, but I bet they will end up saving that 6th one for the xpack. (They usually have a chunk of the xpack already done when the initial game comes out)

[Manovan]

That aspect of the lore could possibly allow more dark classes, but I don't think 3/5 will be dark in the first game. But like you said, they could be added in the expansion. However, a caster with fire/frost/lightning/arcane/shapeshifting is a little much.... (maybe i misread lol) It's mostly the game design that would be troubled by a 3/5 dark characters. Diablo has never had a game with a majority of dark magic type/otherwise morbid characters. And although many ideas sound nice, remember that any hybrid you make has to be a real type of race/class from the diablo world itself.
Dark doesn't necessarily have to be a traditional shadowy evil-looking figure. Let's take the darkness of the Barbarian as an example. While he's a tall, proud and noble figure, he's covered in scars and tattoos, and his hair is gray. The Barbarian's gear also seem very spiky. Also the concept art for the D1 Sorceror has bones impaled in his feet, which is pretty twisted. I can imagine even the knights in shining armor having that cold, dark look in their eyes because they have lived a life of darkness, trying to embrace the little light they can find in the world. It's more a psychological thing behind the darkness of the classes, than actually being morally gray or dark themselves.

I see what you are saying. If the traps are still like that of the Assassins, then ya it would be nice. But how in the world are you going to justify the lore in that sort of hybrid? with D2 assassins and D2 amazons both being females...it would be hard to make a new race out of that. Not only that, if you add a whole trap tree to the new-zon of D3, then you are limiting it's options for still having Spear, Bow, Passive, and Jave skills.
It's true that some of the focus on ranged/close combat will be lost because of the new trap specialization. But the point is to have the traps making up for the lack of weapon skills when it comes to gameplay. The Shadow Ranger would be able to strike at a distance with fewer skills than the Amazon, but he/she will have traps that can be thrown or planted to make up for the loss. This will add some originality to the gameplay, and we won't have an Amazon clone.

Once again though if you give them poison on top of shadow spells or traps, you are limiting what else they can do. Plus limiting the necro's poison abilities if we see him in the expansion. Really it seems they already had the classes perfectly balanced in D2 and if we start mixing them up it creates alot of complications, game design wise, and lore wise.
Despite calling the class Shadow Ranger, they wouldn't really have shadow spells. All their weapon attacks would be either physical/poisonous or both, while their traps would have a variety of elemental attacks (lightning/frost/fire etc.). They would also be able to pick locks and find hidden traps and treasures, and have a variety of passive defensive skills.

It's a little propostorous if the entire holy paladin order were to be corrupted. That would really really put the world out of wack.
Corruption was only a wild speculation. I made another suggestion for a paladin type character in a thread I made. It had the idea of the Paladin order improving their paladins into a new kind of fighter, a Zealot, that could either specialize into a true holy warrior with exorcism, holy nova etc, or a martyr that would sell their own soul, sacrifice themselves and spill their own blood for more effective and aggressive combat skills. They would also have the auras. A Holy Zealot could have a skill that partially transformed the class into an angel like being with bright, glowing wings of light that damages over the time every undead and demon entering the range of the Zealot. That could be both cool and destructive.

[Goddess Belldandy]

Dark doesn't necessarily have to be a traditional shadowy evil-looking figure. Let's take the darkness of the Barbarian as an example. While he's a tall, proud and noble figure, he's covered in scars and tattoos, and his hair is gray. The Barbarian's gear also seem very spiky. Also the concept art for the D1 Sorceror has bones impaled in his feet, which is pretty twisted. I can imagine even the knights in shining armor having that cold, dark look in their eyes because they have lived a life of darkness, trying to embrace the little light they can find in the world. It's more a psychological thing behind the darkness of the classes, than actually being morally gray or dark themselves.

I know what you mean. Even the Zon can be seen as a vicious, cut-throat killer. Some official art of her is quiet dark looking. And I agree with you thought on the paladin, however, that may just be the strong determination to slay all evil in his eyes. However I am not saying that minds of the characters themselves dont have any issues of their own. I agree the psyche of everyone in the game is pretty messed up if you are going into a dark dungeon to fight the lord of terror. Everyone in the game is pretty crazy to do that.

What i mean is like, with your idea of a shadow ranger and a demonology class thrown in with the witch doctor who uses pretty grim stuff already, it would unbalance the game and close too many doors for the more norm. It would be pretty radical of blizzard to have too much of these sorts of spells. You gotta leave plenty of room for the traditional stuff.


It's true that some of the focus on ranged/close combat will be lost because of the new trap specialization. But the point is to have the traps making up for the lack of weapon skills when it comes to gameplay. The Shadow Ranger would be able to strike at a distance with fewer skills than the Amazon, but he/she will have traps that can be thrown or planted to make up for the loss. This will add some originality to the gameplay, and we won't have an Amazon clone.

Even then the issue still stands about how such a class can magically come into existance. Lore-wise, an assassin/amazon hybrid just doesn't make any sense. And I think alot of hardcore amazon fans will be disappointed if you axe too many of their skills to fit in all the assassin stuff.


Despite calling the class Shadow Ranger, they wouldn't really have shadow spells. All their weapon attacks would be either physical/poisonous or both, while their traps would have a variety of elemental attacks (lightning/frost/fire etc.). They would also be able to pick locks and find hidden traps and treasures, and have a variety of passive defensive skills.

The more you describe this class idea of yours, the more and more it strays away from being anything like a replacement for the zon. You may as well be creating a brand new class. It's a good idea, just if something this extremely different from the zon is made, it would be a horrible replacement for the zon, and the zon would still be required for all the zon fans out there. Good ideas but not something to replace a zon, when you go that far with it...And still problems with the lore aspect of it all.


Corruption was only a wild speculation. I made another suggestion for a paladin type character in a thread I made. It had the idea of the Paladin order improving their paladins into a new kind of fighter, a Zealot, that could either specialize into a true holy warrior with exorcism, holy nova etc, or a martyr that would sell their own soul, sacrifice themselves and spill their own blood for more effective and aggressive combat skills. They would also have the auras. A Holy Zealot could have a skill that partially transformed the class into an angel like being with bright, glowing wings of light that damages over the time every undead and demon entering the range of the Zealot. That could be both cool and destructive.

Zealot sounds like a great idea for the replacement of the paladin so does your skill idea of the angel form attack. Very awesome. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen. Definitely would be a worthy replacement for the paladin and wouldn't be anything like the paladins from WoW.

[Manovan]

Even if I hinted at it before, it wasn't my intention to have the Shadow Ranger replace the Amazon, but instead take the place of a ranged class but with a twist. I found the Assassin to be the class that would bring that twist to the class. Some kind of merge between the two is the idea, but of course as balanced a class it can be to be similiar but still vastly different.

Even then the issue still stands about how such a class can magically come into existance. Lore-wise, an assassin/amazon hybrid just doesn't make any sense. And I think alot of hardcore amazon fans will be disappointed if you axe too many of their skills to fit in all the assassin stuff.
Lore isn't really an issue. It can easily just come into existance if Blizzard decides to write it in (it could be some secret dark rogue-like organisation who decides to fight evil to earn an extra buck, like a mercenary who's dragged further into an adventure), and the functionality of it would be similiar to the Rogue from D1 (who was ranged, could pick locks and disarm traps). See it as a Robin Hood type of class. He is if not the best example of this kind of class (ranged rogue). The differences are the shady nature. I think it can work with both lore and gameplay and will attract both Amazon and Assassin players. It wouldn't replace the classical javazons or martial art assassins, but it would fill the ranged spot while being different from the Amazon. I can give you some skill examples:

Throw Gasbomb: The Shadow Ranger throws a green bottle at the enemies, taking the form of a gascloud, poisoning everyone within range.
Stealth: The Shadow Ranger can fade into the shadows for X seconds.
Piercing shot: Has a 100% chance to hit the target. Works with any kind of ranged weapon.
Piercing thrust: Has a 100% chance to hit the target. Works with spears and daggers.
Beartrap: Places a beartrap on the ground, freezing and poisoning anyone walking on it for X sec.
Evade (passive): Works as in D2.

[sneakytails]

After reading this thread some more I got to thinking and after reading the newer posts I decided a Assassin/Amazon hybrid could work. Lore wise it would be a completely different race/culture and only the basic ideas of the characters and their skills would be taken but then tweaked. So in this way something new is created.

But I think the wild card here is the expansion(s?) which are a significant ways into the future. It still could be possible for some of these older classes to come back.

Just for kicks I created a spear-a-sin* in D2lod today. While playing I started thinking of skills that would complement my weapon choice. I am going to go with LS for lightning damage, Venom for poison and FB for fire damage. Plus I have Physical damage from the spear and the extra reach it provides. Not to mention the Shadow Disciple skills such as mind blast and

I would like to see a skill like the amazon jab and impale combined. Two rapid fast attacks followed by a third much more damaging thrust. Almost like a finishing move. Of course this would be without impales speed penalty. Or if there was a speed penalty it would be minimal.


There definitely could be a lot more interesting melee moves for all characters. The possibilities are endless.



*I take no credit for this hardcore characters death if and when this happens.

[etslayer]

I really hope that the there is a knight character, but instead of being a goody two-shoes like the D2 Paladin, I want him to be a no-nonsense, darker, heavily armored warrior like the one from D1. Remember how cool the D1 warrior looked in full armor? They never managed to replicate that in D2 (the barb with sigons was the closest). And a female knight might actually look pretty cool, although at first thought it doesn't sound very right.

[Goddess Belldandy]

official statement from Rob Pardo:

"RP: Just lots of arguing and debating until we decided. The Barbarian was the easy one for us, because he's one of the few classes that's coming over into the new game"

Okay this really puts my theory out of WACK!

That means that only 3 of the original classes, at MAX, will be back in their original form, like the barbarian, in Diablo 3.

So let's see.

Barbarian, Paladin, Sorceress, Witchdoctor.

Axe the Zon...come up with a totally new kind of Ranged bow class.

Well i suppose "a few" is better than "only one".

So no complaints there.

[Aranock]

Good post, nice discussion here.

When it comes down to it, the Diablo 3 characters will certainly offer variety....so with the barbarian and witchdoctor already in the works, that definitly leave a caster class & a bow/spear ranged class for sure. I'm very confident they will also include at least 1 more completly new class out of these...like what they did with the witchdoctor.

Also one thing i wanted to mention ~ In the WWI panels, they stated the amount of character classes has not yet been decided...yet on their website it clearly states there will be 5.

In regards to the necromancer, like was said earlier, there's very little chance they will make it into the game. At WWI they were asked the question many times, and the answer was generic, but still informative. To paraphrase, "We are not discussing specific details at this time...but we are creating unique classes and like to expound upon the ones that already exist...in essence improving them. That being said, the witchdoctor is in the same catagory as the necromancer" or something along those lines.

Finally, in regards to mage class, my guess is the will definitly include something from the Vizjerei mage clan. My favorite class to this day is still the Sorcerer from Diablo 1, and i have always interested in the Vizjerei as the sorcerers were members of it. To support my theory, here are a couple of reasons why i think this. First off, go to Khazra section of the Bestiary (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/bestiary/khazra.xml) on the Diablo 3 website- it names them 10 times, adding a good amount of new lore behind the Vizjerei. And as they have clearly stated, lore is a focus for them in Diablo 3. Secondly, if you follow the trends of the other Diablo games, they certainly have made classes (or at least incoorperated them) from lore. (Not going to post character lore here for length purposes, but look up character backgrounds if you haven't already).

Another reason I think they may add this is now that 20 years have passed since the events of Diablo...well i think the various clans and sects of old would still be prevelant. For example, the Barbarian tribes from Mount Arreat.

And finally, I think adding the Vizjerei would open up a wide variety of possibilties regarding the casting class, and would put a spin on an old RPG class favorite by adding some great lore background. :thumbup: I'm definitly for the idea, and would very much like to see it

[Zarniwoop]

100 imaginary dollars says

pure caster

some form of knight

some form of mixed ranged/melee user that's essentially a decked out zon/sin


And at least I have d2 still for my necromancer fix. But, I'm really disappointed. I will enjoy it and play it I'm sure and I'm over it.

But, I will always argue no matter how cool WD turns out that necromancer just as is, is far cooler.

[Cdnexpat]

Well everyone else is debating the characters. I hope they charge for Bnet and do a good job dealing with duping.

[Swiffer]

And at least I have d2 still for my necromancer fix. But, I'm really disappointed. I will enjoy it and play it I'm sure and I'm over it.

But, I will always argue no matter how cool WD turns out that necromancer just as is, is far cooler.

IMO the necromancer has been pulled in part to balance the player characters in terms of allegiance to heaven or hell.

Basically my thinking is this: Necromancers are predominantly defined by their fascination with the dead and their control over that. In almost all fantasy, these type of people draw their power from evil or demonic sources. You just don't read about necromancers raising the dead for the greater good.

Replacing the Necromancer with a Witch Doctor that uses 'mystical' abilities from a god that is neither defined as good or bad brings the class more into line with what humans in Sanctuary really are: a race that unwittingly sits between the demons of hell and the angels of heaven with the vast majority not having any real allegiance to either. While the Witch Doctor may share some similarities with the Necro in terms of revealed abilities (minions, plague/poison based spells), the source is far more Neutral.

This theory would also preclude the Paladin making a return, since he was the counterbalance to the Necromancer, drawing his power from the heavens.

[safetypro]

My picks would be the paladin, sorceress and amazon.

[Angel_of_Wrath]

Personally, I am hoping for 5 and 3 since it would sad to see the same amount of characters in D3. However, I am hoping that the skills trees are more diverse and may offer even more build options.

So, obviously the barb and wd are in. I mentioned elsewhere, but I am concerned for the spellcaster character since the video mentions the witchdoctor can control fire. I hope its just a couple fire support spells in addition to the summons and curses. The barb is obviously your toe-to-toe damage class, dual wielding or using large two handed weapons.

As mentioned, you must have a spellcaster and a ranged attacker. I also think you have to have a shield user. So, that's your sorc/pally/zon filled, but different.

The mage class, descendants of the Vizjerei would have a play in this. They can call it whatever: Mage; Wizard/Wizardress; Sorceror/Sorceress; Conjurer. It will be interesting to see how they work in this 'arcane' damage type, in addition to the existing elemental types (fire, lightning, ice, poison). It's replacing 'magic' damage like Bone Spirit... but how?

The Zakarum are back in focus as well, especially in Caldeum. This would be your paladin, but perhaps he will become the Crusader. Specializing in holy swords, shields and shiny armor, auras and holy chants. More offensively focused, no more 'caster' hammerdins. (from the d3 site: "...Caldeum began to circle the abyss. Our list of ills seems never-ending: the state of our downtrodden and the slums they are forced to live in, our incompetent leadership, the reemergence of the intolerant Zakarum, and their quarrels with our mage class...")

The ranged class will not be amazon, since the males of that species are not warriors. It will likely be a Ranger or Rogue type, perhaps a mix of bow/xbow and throwing knives/daggers/traps. Like an assassin hybrid, but without the 'caster' part. I can't find any lore evidence of this type of character, but it could be feasible.

So that's classic.

For an expansion, I really like an Alchemist character that uses traps, debuffs and potions to create attacks. There's alot of potential there. It's like a technical class for the middle ages, chemistry and science.

Also, a shapeshifter class, but like a demonologist. Ability to revive demons and take their shape. Sort of a take on the necro class perhaps? Add in a bone skill tree and that could be alot of fun, a tanking necro demon.

Then I would also like to see a stave class like the Monk, using limited light armors, and staves as weapons. With a good weapon block. Or even dual one handed fighting sticks or 'eastern' influenced weaponry. They did say that D3 has additional 'eastern' feels in it, but obviously it has to be gender neutral.

WTB D3 :thumbup:

[Darsithriel]

Then I would also like to see a stave class like the Monk, using limited light armors, and staves as weapons. With a good weapon block. Or even dual one handed fighting sticks or 'eastern' influenced weaponry. They did say that D3 has additional 'eastern' feels in it, but obviously it has to be gender neutral.

WTB D3 :thumbup:

well if eastern feel is the thing, why would they remove the assassin?

Real Monk=Martial arts=Assassin (but knowing Blizz they'll screw this one up, i know it and remove the assassin, because it is the coolest character in diablo I.M.O.)

[Jesse24]

I'm sure it's been expressed already but I'll at least back whoever said it first. One thing that's clear to me is the layout of the classes. Blizzard's always been quite predictable in this area. I beleive it will be:

Primary Fighter (Barb)
Fighter/Support (Similar to pally)
Primary Caster (Similar to sorc)
Caster/Support (Witchdoctor)
Melee/Range Hybrid (Similar to zon)

This is pretty clear to me, but now it's up to Blizz to make these classes interesting. I personally don't have too high expectations in this respect but still look forward to playing them.

[Anathema]

Don't have much to contribute here..

But the new paladin will be called a templar. money.

it somewhat works for female chars. Of course, there may not even be a pally.

[Goddess Belldandy]

Templar was a name idea I forgot to add to my list.

But yes, I agree there is a very high chance the d3 pally will be called a Templar.

Great name, and fully diverse. Also adds a little spice to the Paladin we knew from before.

[DWS]

I for one would be very annoyed with a class called "Conjurer" and a class called "Knight".

How dull is that??

How about something more cool sounding like "Templar" or "Battle Mage"

edit: omg the guy before me put down templar.

[Angel_of_Wrath]

First, the templar have no history in Sanctuary and are a real life organization so I highly doubt they fit into Diablo.

Second, on re-reading the transcripts from the dev panels, one of the comments was that they weren't going to bring back classes from D2. I know the 'transcripts' aren't verbatim, but it implied that the Barbarian is the ONLY returning class from D2.