View Full Version : Random mod items (Rare) Improvements
Diablo II Rare (Yellow) items has always been infernior to unique and set items in many ways. They might good while leveling or just playing trough the game, but as endgame equipment there must be some hilarous combination of the most awesome mods spawned with some ethereal and repair to be even up to pair with the unique versions.
I want this to change because i see rare items as the ultimate end gear stuff, Random mod items also makes each character unique with no exceptions because a complete set of rare equipment with exactly the same rare mods are inexistant.
I often found myself playing classic just because of this reason, rares are the jack of all trades :thumbup:
What you guys think?
I agree with you 100% pre 1.08 was great for the fact that Rare items had a chance of actually being better then unique items.
Unique items always seem to not make sense when it came to the items in the game, because they were far from unique...everyone had the same item. They might have a few unique attributes but that was it.
They need to make sure to focus on Rare items being powerful, because that "randomness" and uniqueness to those items really shine through.
etslayer
01-07-2008, 02:59
Unique items always seem to not make sense when it came to the items in the game, because they were far from unique...everyone had the same item.
Uniques make perfect sense. There is only one gold hydra bow (windforce). But a yellow hydra bow can be anything. That's why uniques are unique :wink:
Intolerance
01-07-2008, 03:09
What's truly unique, though? The SoJ that 1,274,456 people have or the rare ring with mods that are likely never exactly duplicated?
i think uniques and set items are good because then you can plan and you know you can trade something with another one by just shouting its name. Rare items have random names and random mods but i want them to have a chance to become the most powerful items.
The ultimate equip should be in my opinion something you took great care of and crafted just to fit your needs, ex. extremely good rare armor 2+ sockets with rare jewels. I want something like this is D III aswell because it makes each character truly unique. unique items arent unique thats why boring :whistling:. Sure if only one person could find it then we can start talking.
snugglson
01-07-2008, 23:49
It really would make more sense for them to play around with the naming system, because "rare" would certainly fit what we now know as "unique".
Dodgydave
02-07-2008, 02:13
I've always felt the same way. Unique items aren't unique at all, it's rare items that are closer to unique with their random mods.
UnderAge
02-07-2008, 02:55
thats exactly what i wanted too, thats why i never played lod, everyone had exactly the same stuff. classic was better too me because the rare items were the ones that were the best (usually) and everyone had there own set of gear, no duplicates
Zarniwoop
02-07-2008, 08:22
How about unique and then epic? Only one epic on the realm? But, that would cause a ton of complaining.
I think the system isn't bad.
I hope they release with something equivalent to 1.10 but with evolving items or the light/dark thing I've heard so much about.
Would also love another even rarer level of loot or 2.
No need to make something so unique that only one player in the world can get it....
An overal increase of random mods would suffice i think. If unique items stays as they did in Dianlo II i really hope they add random mods to them aswell and not only different stat ranges. :thumbup:
In the latest patch of D2 that I've played, rares could be better than uniques. A good rare could have up to 450%ed :)
In the latest patch of D2 that I've played, rares could be better than uniques. A good rare could have up to 450%ed :)
Yea i know :D, but to get that much ed useful you need other mods aswell so lets count some.
450 ed, thats actually 2 mods
20+ ias
2 sockets (just for more awesomeness)
to make it actually better then RWS then we need ethereal and repairs dura aswell. That makes it quite impossible to get. Still its a great trophy.
I want something like this but more good combinations of mods, more special mods, mods that can only spawn on rares etc..
Yea i know :D, but to get that much ed useful you need other mods aswell so lets count some.
450 ed, thats actually 2 mods
20+ ias
2 sockets (just for more awesomeness)
to make it actually better then RWS then we need ethereal and repairs dura aswell. That makes it quite impossible to get. Still its a great trophy.
I want something like this but more good combinations of mods, more special mods, mods that can only spawn on rares etc..
It's not impossible, I've seen some godly rares in patch 1.11. They cost a lot due to the fact they are unique in the game, not like uniques or rw's. Of course it would be nice if they can make those rares even godlier ^^
It's not impossible, I've seen some godly rares in patch 1.11. They cost a lot due to the fact they are unique in the game, not like uniques or rw's. Of course it would be nice if they can make those rares even godlier ^^
Ive also seen like a couple on the forums but compated to the availability of the runewords or the uniques, rares are just to hard to get something ever moderatly good.
I just want to make random spawn items have a better chance to compete with named ones aka uniques in diablo II, or atleast have some mods thats only possible to get on random mod spawn items. To make for endgame gear that are not only very unique in true fashion but also makes for heavy specialization of your character.
Ive also seen like a couple on the forums but compated to the availability of the runewords or the uniques, rares are just to hard to get something ever moderatly good.
I just want to make random spawn items have a better chance to compete with named ones aka uniques in diablo II, or atleast have some mods thats only possible to get on random mod spawn items. To make for endgame gear that are not only very unique in true fashion but also makes for heavy specialization of your character.
That would be nice indeed. Imo it would be more fun if you don't see chars that look all the same, like was more or less the case in D2.
That would be nice indeed. Imo it would be more fun if you don't see chars that look all the same, like was more or less the case in D2.
Thats why i palyed alot of diablo II classic because then i could enjoy my rares to its fully potential. In LOD everyones running the same. Amazons with Faith, Barbarians with Griefs and Beasts, Palading with CoA grief exile or zakarum, etc.... I really dont like this approach, i want random mod items to be the top notch if you get lucky. More diversity of the mods that can spawn. The rare items had so few mods that were useful that every good rare items found almost were identical.
I was just posting about this in another thread.
My idea is to introduce another class of rares, a high level high payoff rare. I used the name epic as a placeholder in the other post, but it could called anything.
The idea is that for low to mid level play, you have the rares. But above a certain level(level of the drop/mob, not clvl), well into late-game, you get a very small chance to roll an epic. The chance should be lower than rolling a unique.
The epic should have a different pool of mods than rares to include every useful mod that is in the game. If some crazy mod is on a unique somewhere, it should be possible on an epic. If they add a new unique with a new mod, they should add it to the epic mod pool.
Also, with prefixes and suffixes that have many "tiers," only the highest ones should be candidates, so as to not have an almost godly rare with +1 Life. None of the useless mods should be possible on an epic.
Another thing is, multiple rolls of the same prefix or suffix should be possible, to allow a few people with some crazy items. For example, if epics can have 3 prefixes and 3 suffixes, and +2 to all skills is a possible prefix, then it should be possible to roll that same prefix three times on an epic to achieve +6 to all skills. Obviously the chances of that happening should be absurdly low, but it should still be possible.
This way, every epic you find won't be completely trash even if the exact combination of mods aren't the most godly. We also won't have to worry about seeing too many of them, since it should only start to even be possible to be dropped after venturing into the later parts of the game. And the best of all is that since the mods are not based on specific base item types like uniques and sets, everyone's characters can look different again.
ColtFourFive
02-07-2008, 15:41
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold your horses. Am I the only person who has played Hellgate: London? Just a reminder, HG:L was made by Bill Roper and the entire ex-Blizzard North crew. And it sucked after the first week or so because they did exactly what you are suggesting.
Lemmie splain... HG:L tried to implement all the best that random mobs/level generation/item finding had to offer. They made EVERYTHING random. And it blew. Balls. It meant that even once you had max character level and had played for hours looking for pwnage drops you STILL would never have the best of the best. Likewise, some blindly lucky chump could potentially get the greatest weapon in the game after playing for less than a week. In otherwords, with d2's current runeword/uniques system, there IS a goal for your character. Every time you level, every time you get that 1% closer to perfect runeword you know you are getting closer to the best you can possibly be. Its an attainable goal. And you know that you have the best item you can.
Most action RPGers arent looking for pure mfing and trying to get all epic items. There was no item build direction at all for HG: L, cause everything was guesswork. The item build section is one of my favorite parts of any guide in D2. You can compare and contrast what item would be better and why, anc you know what items are the best. What the hell would trading be like if all items were pwnepic items and no uniques or sets were around?
Anyways, {/rant}. I like the idea of good rares, but uniques/rwords should always, always be the best of the best. Without dupers/botters/etc. they would be more rare and therefore more fun to try and get.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold your horses. Am I the only person who has played Hellgate: London? Just a reminder, HG:L was made by Bill Roper and the entire ex-Blizzard North crew. And it sucked after the first week or so because they did exactly what you are suggesting.
Lemmie splain... HG:L tried to implement all the best that random mobs/level generation/item finding had to offer. They made EVERYTHING random. And it blew. Balls. It meant that even once you had max character level and had played for hours looking for pwnage drops you STILL would never have the best of the best. Likewise, some blindly lucky chump could potentially get the greatest weapon in the game after playing for less than a week. In otherwords, with d2's current runeword/uniques system, there IS a goal for your character. Every time you level, every time you get that 1% closer to perfect runeword you know you are getting closer to the best you can possibly be. Its an attainable goal. And you know that you have the best item you can.
Most action RPGers arent looking for pure mfing and trying to get all epic items. There was no item build direction at all for HG: L, cause everything was guesswork. The item build section is one of my favorite parts of any guide in D2. You can compare and contrast what item would be better and why, anc you know what items are the best. What the hell would trading be like if all items were pwnepic items and no uniques or sets were around?
Anyways, {/rant}. I like the idea of good rares, but uniques/rwords should always, always be the best of the best. Without dupers/botters/etc. they would be more rare and therefore more fun to try and get.
The thing is uniques and runes will always drop. And so several players can have the (almost) identical items (uniques and runewords). But rares are unique items. I'm yet to find 2 identical non-duped rares. Or they should make uniques/runes harder to drop in game.
The idea of 'epic' sounds nice but then again all of this is speculation. I just hope that item-wise D3 will be worth it. And not that after 1 week playing, you'll be able to see a chatchannel full with shako-wearing chars ><
ColtFourFive
02-07-2008, 19:48
I do agree with that. I don't want to see everyone wearing the exact same uber end game gear. I have high hopes that Blizzard will make the item system interesting and fun, they did specify that one of the most important items in the game was the "loot".
PS: I never wear shakos :X
@ ColtFourFive, that just means Flagship Studios did it wrong.
I wasn't suggesting that EVERYTHING be random. I certainly wasn't suggesting that we do away with uniques and RWs. The idea of epics is so that at higher level play, you have a realistic(albeit very small) chance of actually rolling a useful rare.
Uniques and RWs being the best end-game gear is a huge problem, because then character builds start coming off the same assembly line. If everyone is uber, then nobody is.
I like uniques and sets, I collect them. Gimme those, not some random silly items!
... Yeah, rares could have more better affix combinations... rare body armors and rare shields just can't compare with the uniqes/sets. But you can still have better rare boots and gloves, good amulets, rings and circlets. And high-level affixes should have better chances to spawn on high ilvl items.
I'd like them to mix the two systems:
Each Unique has its fixed mods and ALSO a slot or two for random mods. This way you can still design a character around specific gear (what else are you going to do at work?!) but there is some randomness to the items to keep them unique.
Rashiminos
05-07-2008, 23:03
@ ColtFourFive, that just means Flagship Studios did it wrong.
I wasn't suggesting that EVERYTHING be random. I certainly wasn't suggesting that we do away with uniques and RWs. The idea of epics is so that at higher level play, you have a realistic(albeit very small) chance of actually rolling a useful rare.
Uniques and RWs being the best end-game gear is a huge problem, because then character builds start coming off the same assembly line. If everyone is uber, then nobody is.
There are uniques in HGL, true story.
What's wrong with random when you can up an item's base level?
abigmoron
06-07-2008, 19:38
I hope that rare items in D3 can have the cool mods that made so many uniques exciting, like open wounds, crushing blow, fires exploding arrows, cast to chance cool spells, etc.
Deckard Cain
07-07-2008, 08:38
I am 100% for making rares the best items in the game. I'm so tired of the cookie cutter characters with the exact same items and builds as everyone else. Down with the runewords and up with rares!
lionheart
07-07-2008, 09:18
Well then they would have to change the name of their items, since for me it makes no sense for something that is rare to be stronger than something that is unique
i think uniques and set items are good because then you can plan and you know you can trade something with another one by just shouting its name. Rare items have random names and random mods but i want them to have a chance to become the most powerful items.
The ultimate equip should be in my opinion something you took great care of and crafted just to fit your needs, ex. extremely good rare armor 2+ sockets with rare jewels. I want something like this is D III aswell because it makes each character truly unique. unique items arent unique thats why boring :whistling:. Sure if only one person could find it then we can start talking.
I certainly agree here, I have said it before but I think that randomness is the name of the game and I'd like rares to make a come back and offer a huge assortment of good rare items. I too, miss the hold days of pre 1.08 were unique were the thing. I don't like the fact that nowadays, everyone has the same uber gear.
Well then they would have to change the name of their items, since for me it makes no sense for something that is rare to be stronger than something that is unique
Unique does not automatically mean powerful. Usually it means there is some kind of story attached to it: Weilded by a famous barbarian, created by a famous sorcerer, used for infamous deeds.
Being unique just means they are items of note in the lore of the world, not just another funky mix up by a mad sorcerer (ie rare items)
lionheart
10-07-2008, 19:58
Unique does not automatically mean powerful. Usually it means there is some kind of story attached to it: Weilded by a famous barbarian, created by a famous sorcerer, used for infamous deeds.
Being unique just means they are items of note in the lore of the world, not just another funky mix up by a mad sorcerer (ie rare items)
True, but power wise they have always worked like that. One thing that i would like though in regards to uniques, and im talking about SP because that how i play it, is to make them unique in the true sense in the word. I would prefer to be able to find only one of a certain unique when im going through my game with one of my guys. Going with the same guy and finding the same unique item 4-5 times during the game kinda makes the unique quite pointless.
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