Huge Final 'D1-like' Dungeon

[FistOfFury]

I'm all for borrowing off D2 and having outdoor scenes that lead to each Act's main dungeon and side dungeons..but, how cool would it be if you could sorta relive the D1 experience in D3's final dungeon?

It wouldn't necessarily have to be a return to Tristram's underground, but a different portal to Hell at the site of the Worldstone's destruction. There could be a buttload of levels that you descend into like 16, 25, or even more, and as you descend the atmosphere just keeps getting darker and spookier just like in Diablo 1, with some secret twists and turns for some good magic finding spots until finally you arrive at Diablo's HQ with massive armies defending Diablo in the deep Abyss of the Burning Hells...

It would be such a great climactic epic experience. I was sort of disappointed with D2 LOD's final dungeon. It just didn't feel big enough, spooky enough or even epic enough, and it just didn't feel like it had much variety in it. And everyone would always end up in that same small boring box of a place to fight Baal and his minions to get that high level experience.

Side-question, what was D2/D2 LOD's largest dungeon? How many levels did it have? I can't really remember.

[IdiotDK]

That would be catacombs with four.
Or Worldstone Keep with 3 + Throne of Destruction + The Worldstone Chamber

But yeah. im totally in on this. Diablo just gets more and more scary the further you go in.

[5zigen]

I think it would be cool if they borrowed from one of the square enix games on this one, and added a seperate but very difficult and rewarding dungeon, that is aside from the main storyline. They also did this in super paper mario.

Perhaps even have an alternate form of the final boss at the end, or the "real ending" ?!?

[voraginous]

That would be catacombs with four.
Or Worldstone Keep with 3 + Throne of Destruction + The Worldstone Chamber

But yeah. im totally in on this. Diablo just gets more and more scary the further you go in.

Agreed. We need bigger dungeons. The levels were sprawling but not deep enough. The Dungeons in D2 were pathetically small. (Didn't the Countess have a deep dungeon too? Like 5 levels? Or am I forgetting??...)

[IdiotDK]

Doh.
How could i forget Tower -_-
Did so many runs there.

But still. yeah. 5 against 4+4+4+4 is still not much.

[phool]

Issue with adding a massive endgame pvm area is that if it's going to be harder/higher risk than everywhere else, it needs to have correspondingly increased rewards or it'll be almost unplayed. If it has higher rewards than elsewhere, everywhere else will be reduced to being places on the way to getting to the 'endgame' area. Being forced to run a single unvaried area for long periods at the exclusion of all others is going to kill all but the very most hardcore of item fetishists' ability to be entertained. D2's alvl 85s effectively opened up a large part of the game, and those parts' unique enemies and tilesets, to characters that had defeated Hell Baal. When p/matting a char is only the beginning for many D2 players I think it's really important that D3 maintains and furthers this ideology.

This can be solved by making the reward something different to rewards accessed elsewhere, along the lines of uber trist, so the area no longer competes directly with all the others. One alternative endgame idea that's been suggested in another thread would be a non material (in universam sense) benefit with a dungeon having infinite, progressively harder levels. The enemies don't drop anything and you don't have to get xp, you can't tp out and the final level you reach is recorded, providing a non-pvp form of ranked competition.

[Arkardo]

I would like to see Diablo 1 & 2 area styles combined: have multiple towns with a deep dungeon in each of them. This makes the gameplay more 'gothic', like in D2, but still have some outside area's.

The story could go something like that the Prime and Lesser Evils are hidding in dungeons below towns around the world. Or something.

[Gamekk]

Side-question, what was D2/D2 LOD's largest dungeon? How many levels did it have? I can't really remember.

The largest DII dungeon was, after 1.09, Durance of Hate in NM and Hell difficulties (3 levels, 2 being oversized). Without maphack, this dungeon is a pain, it was implemented to reduce Mephisto's drop farming and is by far the dungeon with the largest area (not # of levels) ingame.

Back to your big dungeon, that would be awesome. It would be so much rewarding to accomplish that at the end of the game :D

I just have one suggestion:

NO WAVES!!

[ThulRasha]

How about a limitless number of levels? You just keep going down and down and down.
The game is supposed to be able to make countless different map layouts already.
It could even have an achievement value.
"Yeah, today we made it to level 2854, the monsters got really scary there and I got this lousy T-shirt from one of them."

[lionheart]

lol, yea that would definetely be interesting...:whistling:

[PlasmaTorture]

How about a limitless number of levels? You just keep going down and down and down.
The game is supposed to be able to make countless different map layouts already.
It could even have an achievement value.
"Yeah, today we made it to level 2854, the monsters got really scary there and I got this lousy T-shirt from one of them."

While limitless isn't neccesarily a bad idea, part of the appeal of the diablo 1-esque megadungeon is that it gets progressively scarier and darker and more evil as you go. A limitless dungeon would not be able to be so closely linked to a story like Diablo's was, nor would it stay unrepetitive (as eventually you'll reach the "scariest" style and just repeat that or something, no?).

[Swiffer]

I think it would be cool if they borrowed from one of the square enix games on this one, and added a seperate but very difficult and rewarding dungeon, that is aside from the main storyline. They also did this in super paper mario.

Perhaps even have an alternate form of the final boss at the end, or the "real ending" ?!?

Dont throw in the alternate final boss or real ending, but perhaps at some point they could throw in, to the side of the main story, an essentially endless dungeon like HGL are doing with the Upcoming Abyss. Levels get progressively harder and harder as you go down, with no real end to it.

Would be great for characters that are massively geared up and bored of the standard 'run x boss 50 times a day' playing, and give them a real challenge.

Could even be another ladder you could aim for. A kind of badge of honor for your character.

While limitless isn't neccesarily a bad idea, part of the appeal of the diablo 1-esque megadungeon is that it gets progressively scarier and darker and more evil as you go. A limitless dungeon would not be able to be so closely linked to a story like Diablo's was, nor would it stay unrepetitive (as eventually you'll reach the "scariest" style and just repeat that or something, no?).

Models that can scale might help with this. Sure, those deathknights on level 15 might have been scary, but that ain't nothin' compared to the ones on level 25 that are twice as big with swords that could cut through sold steel like butter :D

[mince pies]

I found it quite funny that there was something like sixteen levels beneath the cathedral and none of the townspeople seemed to have realised :P

Dont throw in the alternate final boss or real ending, but perhaps at some point they could throw in, to the side of the main story, an essentially endless dungeon like HGL are doing with the Upcoming Abyss. Levels get progressively harder and harder as you go down, with no real end to it.


I think that would be a great idea, or maybe have some like 100 levels and at the end you get a super unique drop :)

[Gorema]

I actually quite like the endless dungeon. Come to think of it, I like it a lot.


*Votes that an endless dungeon should be implemented in-game*

[Sincubus]

I want that as a secret level instead of the stupid cow level!

[Xanares]

One thing that wasn't possible in the level design of D2, but which I think could be posible in D3 is this. An immense downspiralling (or up) staircase of proportions that is utterly out of this world... which on the contruary would be something not entirely impossible in a world made of angels and demons.
It should be so big and awe inspiring that you almost forget you are in a staircase.

I made my thoughts into a small thing in 3d, just for showing what I mean. Although the thinkness of the staircase-steps-part is too little, the steps themselves too high and each of them not wide enough - and the outerwall is not there, for easier view.

The staircase could be interrupted by stations along the way or have occational rooms carved into the mid pillar and/or outer wall.

The pro's of this design would be the scale and scope as well as the lighting, making for an awesome environment with lots of possibilities for interiour, traps and encounters.
Also on the plus-side, you never really know where it is going or when it will end.

The con's are automapping problems (would overlap unless lots of levels are made) and danger of monotonous environment unless some variation is embedded.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6338/staircasewandererte0.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=staircasewandererte0.jpg)

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8439/wsbtb0.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wsbtb0.jpg)

Note that the bottom picture is in perspective thus making the spirals look smaller below - they aren't.

[phaolo]

Ouch.. big or infinite levels would be good for one-time play.. imagine MF rush (with no teleport) to the boss with those conditions.. :crazy:

It would be nice if after the first boss kill and at a certain level you could enable a waypoint directly to the boss lair for training purposes. No?


P.s: I like the stairs. Level transitions or a map with those would be interesting

[McDeath]

Any of you ever play the old game Sword of Fargoal (type it in google). That was a game with no dungeon end. Sure the sword was on levels 16-25 but you could keep going and going and going. The play could get repetitive but the monsters, traps, and life regeneration got harder and harder as the game just crunched numbers. I've got some lvl 20 guy who has crawled down to lvl 50 and back again.

I wouldn't mind seeing this in a Diablo game.

[HailtoTyr]

I think it would be cool if they borrowed from one of the square enix games on this one, and added a seperate but very difficult and rewarding dungeon, that is aside from the main storyline. They also did this in super paper mario. or Baldurs Gate.

That would be totally awesome, i like the idea of a stand alone (means not "must run"), really fking hard Dungeon, where you could only get some (really nice) lewt with much skill, much time and/or good teamgame. The final boss should be an Epic fight like Big Bosses at the End of the Acts in D2.

Btw i would really like to see the "you dont have to get all the quests on this alt" system back, like in D1, where not every char gets King Leoric or Butcher etc, maybe the Quests should alter on N8mare / Hell then.

[pantherus]

I have to say that, barring a few exceptions, D2 never really equaled the shear atmosphere of D1...

I love this idea, you really had a feeling of achievement in D1, each time you hit a new tileset (Dungeons -> Catacombs -> Caves -> Hell) you really felt you were getting closer...; whereas D2 just seemed to drag on and on at some points...

[mouseman]

Doh.
How could i forget Tower -_-
Did so many runs there.

But still. yeah. 5 against 4+4+4+4 is still not much.

You forgot the forgotten tower, eh? :)

That 16 levels was the whole of Diablo 1. Diablo 2 had A LOT more levels than Diablo 1, the main difference is that you spent a lot more time in outdoor areas in D2.

I really like the idea of more persistent outdoor areas and totally randomized dungeons like the one blizzard representive said. It would be fun to get to know the world and the outdoor areas being relatively safe and familiar, but as you go underground, the evil kicks in and suddenly you don't know where you are at all. This could indicate that the majority of the action happens underground, unlike in D2, so maybe we will get deeper dungeons!

[AlexanderM]

I think the idea of an Uber-dungeon is interesting. I'd like to see it unlocked around late-nightmare, mid-hell (as far as the game progression goes), and be optional. A really vile dungeon with amazing drops, but nasty monsters, with something very epic at the end. Wouldn't need to be storyline related, but should be random enough that a lv99 with godly gear would still have to tread lightly and play cautiously, but lv75-80ish might be able to survive if they play skillfully.

It would make a lot more sense that all this Uber-diablo "world event" and Uber-Tristram stuff that got thrown in. As for being endless, that would get dizzying after a few levels, but I definitely vote for DEEP (15 levels? Do you want that ultra-epic boss fight where you'll get to see your Mercenary disemboweled and find out you're too far from town to portal back, or not, lol)

Edit: Now my question is: Would it be a solo trial-by-fire sort of thing, or a dungeon that practically -requires- 8 skilled players?

[zooply]

If there was an endless dungeon, I know of one skill that would have to stay out of the game or be toned down: Revive.

[raveharu]

I'm pretty sure D3 will have alot of dungeons with elaborate details.

What I'm curious to know, will it be like D2, the "just find the next level" concept, which I think will be exploited easily.

[KREGA]

http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=669822

[Nightswipe]

It was a bit disappointing that act 4 in D2 only was 3 quests long...