Aggro Implementation+Char Request [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

Shivoc

06-07-2008, 02:48

I hope to see a WoW type aggro mechanic implemented into Diablo 3. I hated fighting one of the Prime Evils as a sorc or something and just by getting close you get attacked. They should take in the distance as a dynamic of the aggro but also have damage and aggro attacks. Make the barbarian a tank, the paladin a type of healer, and and the rest damage classes.

They say they want to make the game more cooperative and lets be honest, in Diablo 2 you prayed or played a zon or sorc for fast clearing. A barb's WW can only go so far and hit so many. Give him a more important role.

I hate to say it and I'll admit. I played WoW for a good 4 years. Very strong. I was a hardcore end game raider, but I finally got away, and for good. But I would love to see this game steer a lot in that direction. There's nothing wrong with it. WoW is a groundbreaking revolutionary game. If you deny that, you've never played it to the extent I have or you haven't played it at all. I hope they take all they can from WoW, but they can leave the Orcs.

Nimbostratus

06-07-2008, 03:38

Would you mind explaining the "aggro" thing a little better? I've never played WoW, and thus have no idea what you're talking about.

As for the characters, no way. Cooperation is nice. Being forced into specific roles is definitely not. Besides, keep in mind that single player exists, so you can't focus everything on having a party.

Shivoc

06-07-2008, 04:54

Aggro stands for aggression. As in aggression towards an opposing force.

In WoW, a tank has special abilities to gain a bosses primary aggro or aggression towards so the monster focuses mainly on him. The tank must be strong and members must work to keep him alive. Damage plays a parts, as well as heals and buffs. So if a tank has a hypothetical aggro rating of 17 on a monster, and a mage or something deals a ton of damage and surpasses the tank with maybe 20 or more for a long period of time, the boss would change his aggression and go for the mage. Now, there is by no means numbers on the screen on WoW that say 17 and 20, I'm making an example, but there is insane forumlae that blizzard came up with to determine how much aggro is stacked up. I feel that would be a big help in this game.

Although, I was hoping for D3 to be a MMO that is basicly a replica of WoW, but with Diablo lore, environment, and characters.

Arkansaw

06-07-2008, 05:23

wtf...replica WoW????? we don't need wow fanboys to hijack diablo gameplay. that's was probably why we rejected wow in the first place

Shivoc

06-07-2008, 05:51

Wow fanboy? Yes. I am a fan of WoW. And you'd be stupid to make fun of such. WoW is by far the most successful game ever created. Its gameplay, dynamics, and features are flawless. Remember, to the base, Diablo and WoW are the same creators. Dont forget that. To think they wont and shouldnt take ideas from WoW is preposterous.

Oh and "Why we rejected wow in the first place"? I bet 80% of people on these forums plays WoW at one time or another and would not regret the time they played.

I'm not defending WoW in anyway, numbnut. I am stating the obvious.

Arkansaw

06-07-2008, 06:13

Numbnut? The fact that you are pushing for a LOLWAT replica already render your views a non-event

Shivoc

06-07-2008, 06:29

Again, your rebuttal is pointless. Just leave my thread.

cbr

06-07-2008, 12:46

Lol aggro, go back to WoW and stop trying to rape our game mechanics. Next thing you'll make a thread for a healer class.

Sein Schatten

06-07-2008, 15:26

Can we discuss this more friendly? If you do not like his proposals, just say so calmly.
There already is a rudimentary aggro mechanic in D2. At least for player and merc.
I, personally, do not like the holy trinity. It is unimaginative and boring. You can make games without the need of it. SG:W or, for a better interpretation of it, WAR. There, at least the healer have to be in the midst of battle.
But D3 is not this kind of game and won't need the holy trinity. In fact, I think it would be detrimental to it.

lidon

06-07-2008, 16:39

I hope to see a WoW type aggro mechanic implemented into Diablo 3.

I do hope that they add more depth to the combat, but I don't think that this is the answer. MMOs do this already, and there are plenty of MMOs to play.

WoW is by far the most successful game ever created. Its gameplay, dynamics, and features are flawless.

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take you seriously when you state stuff like this as if it's fact.

I, personally, do not like the holy trinity. It is unimaginative and boring.
...
But D3 is not this kind of game and won't need the holy trinity. In fact, I think it would be detrimental to it.

I disagree that it is "unimaginative and boring", but I do think it has been done to death (if that is what you meant, then we are in agreement).

The aggro mechanic was designed around the idea that some content required a group effort to complete. Keep in mind that unlike MMOs, the Diablo series was just as much for single-players as it was for multi-players. Every class should be able to solo its way through the entire game. As such, there isn't really a place for the aggro mechanic in Diablo, since there should not be any content that requires a group.

jakotaco

20-07-2008, 13:31

Eww... I certainly hope they do not under any circumstances add MMO-like aggro effects. Seriously why would a dozen carvers stand about doing nothing while you poind down them one at a time? Diablo is about fighting hordes of enemies at once, not static tank/dps/healing. There are plenty of those games already.. and in my personal opinion the combat in those games is way to linear and slow-paced.

I want diablo3, not "WoW2: Realms of Diablo"

sicilian

22-07-2008, 20:38

The problem with having tank/healer/dps in Diablo is, as others have mentioned, is that you're meant to be able to complete the game on your own with any class. If you make a healer class, how will they kill enemies? In WoW, you could do that because it was primarily a group game, and people didn't mind that the healer classes killed slower because they had less downtime between fights (due to healing).

In Diablo, having one class kill noticably slower solo would mean that class doesn't get played unless it's grouped.

D2 already has the tank/damage dynamic to some degree, except it's possible to fulfill either role with any class. If I really wanted to, I could load up a Sorceress with Energy Shield and stand close enough to draw the enemy attention, while a Barbarian throws stuff at them. It's generally not the most efficient way to kill groups, but on certain bosses might work.

The strategies are more open-ended that way. If you pidgeon-hole classes into roles like tank, healer, dps, utility, etc, you eliminate the diversity of player created group tactics.

phool

23-07-2008, 01:16

Actually I way prefer GW's aggro system. Aggro management in GW is far less about the skills you give your toons and far more about your skills as a player and your team's skills. Tank's don't get an explicit 'attack me' skill... instead they get a cancelable self heal that doubles incoming damage, wasd and knockdowns. Cloths rely on snares, caution and kiting. I'd hate to see GW dumbed down in the manner of WoW.

D2 doesn't handle aggro very simplistically... except for act bosses who have a peculiar tendency to pick one party member to rage on, everything just basically heads for its nearest enemy after aggro checks (which will happen mostly if stunned/fhrd etc). Enemy AI is trivial to exploit as a result but tbh that's ok. Changing the default behaviour and then adding directly AI altering pvm-only skills like confuse and attract doesn't improve the game, even ignoring the fact Diablo is a solo-centric game.

WoW is by far the most successful game ever created. Its gameplay, dynamics, and features are flawless.

Lol'd...

konfeta

23-07-2008, 04:26

To think they wont and shouldnt take ideas from WoW is preposterous.

You will find people like me who are all for taking good ideas from WoW, but aggro and class roles is, by far and large, not one of them.

Diablo isn't a group based MMO. Shoving mechanics that would force it into being one is the number one way to alienate a large number of people. I am not sure if you noticed, but there is a crapload of people (including Blizzard fans), who absolutely despise World of Warcraft and the MMORPG genre in general.

Although, I was hoping for D3 to be a MMO that is basicly a replica of WoW, but with Diablo lore, environment, and characters.

There is a very large number of people who want Diablo 3 to be Diablo 3, not a WoW-clone. You have WoW, you have the next-gen MMORPG that Blizzard is developing as their third project. Let us have the game we have been waiting for 7 years. Action RPG genre has been plagued by failed experiments such as Hellgate London and hordes of unimaginative Diablo clones. There have been very few games in this genre worth playing, and most of those had almost non-existent on-line play.

5zigen

24-07-2008, 10:32

Arkansaw

24-07-2008, 13:33

WoW2: World of Diablo sounds like a better name :D

andreasdr

31-07-2008, 09:46

I want diablo3, not "WoW2: Realms of Diablo"The name "World of Warcraft 2: Realms of Diablo" doesn't seem right though :)
Let us have the game we have been waiting for 7 years. Action RPG genre has been plagued by failed experiments such as Hellgate London and hordes of unimaginative Diablo clones. There have been very few games in this genre worth playing, and most of those had almost non-existent on-line play.I agree, Diablo 3 obviously has potential to be the best action-rpg since Diablo 2, and I believe Blizzard feels a huge sense of responsibility to create the best sequel to the phenomenal Diablo 2 as they can. I think Blizzard takes pride in the quality of their games and the diversity of their different game series. They have, bay far, enough integrity to avoid the temptation of making another MMORPG cash-cow out of the Diablo universe.

RyTEK

31-07-2008, 15:59

Why has this turned into another Warcraft v. Diablo rant? Suggesting a game mechanic that could be shared in each game should not necessitate mindless garbage such as "I hate game X and will not play game Y if it shares anything at all with game X".

Since all classes are DPS in Diablo, you can't have aggro calculated in a WoW fashion (i.e. much more aggro for the Barbarian over the Witch Doctor). What I did notice in the gameplay video posted on the official D3 site - the part with the big boss fight at the end is that the Barbarian was chased around slightly more often than the Witch Doctor. This tells me that an aggro system is already in place, and will probably be balanced now and in upcoming patches.

The Witch Doctor's minions were also targeted as threats over the WD himself *most* of the time.

ThulRasha

31-07-2008, 16:01

I hate to say it and I'll admit. I played WoW for a good 4 years. Very strong. I was a hardcore end game raider, but I finally got away, and for good. But I would love to see this game steer a lot in that direction. There's nothing wrong with it. WoW is a groundbreaking revolutionary game. If you deny that, you've never played it to the extent I have or you haven't played it at all. I hope they take all they can from WoW, but they can leave the Orcs.

WoW groundbreaking revolutionary?
You obviously only played WoW and have never even heard of the older mmorpgs wich WoW borrowed from and put together in a very nice way.
There is nothing wrong with that, WoW turned out to be very sucessful. But groundbreaking and revolutionary it was not.

That said, I hope they do not steer D3 into the direction of WoW. Why not? Because I already have WoW. If D3 turns out to be the same, then I will simply stick to WoW for a while longer.

Funkopotamus

31-07-2008, 19:51

I was kind of hoping the game would be too fast for such an implementation.

Sein Schatten

31-07-2008, 19:54

I was kind of hoping the game would be too fast for such an implementation.

With summons, you need some aggro mechanic. Summons are not only damage tools but also meatshields and they should have a higher threat then the summoner. Same for Mercs.
Of course, D3 don't need the stuff like in MMORPGs with TPS skills and taunts and whatever. That is overkill.

Funkopotamus

31-07-2008, 20:57

Thanks for the tidbit?

Lyrs

31-07-2008, 21:29

Aggro: Just another form of AI

You guys need to let your WoW hate cool down. It makes sense for the monsters to switch targets to the player that draws its attention, especially those ones that are doing the most dmg to them. It's incredibly stupid for monsters to just hit whatever is closest.

Aggro or threat handling is something that needs implementation if you're going to have monsters that can adjust strategies, flank, and keep the players on their toes. Also, this game is going to be mostly coop and as such it's going to be to the benefit of the game and the players to THINK about how they should approach a certain situation.

Sanctuary is a dangerous place and with the events of D2:LoD, I would that it gets even more dangerous. The addition of BETTER AI in D3 would definitely go a long ways towards making D3 a better game. So again, don't let your WoW hate clutter the fact that games should improve their AI.

Sein Schatten

31-07-2008, 21:39

Thanks for the tidbit?

No problem. Glad I could help. :thumbup:

@Lyrs: True, as long as you are not forced to "have a tank" and other stuff. Better AI is always nice. :)

konfeta

31-07-2008, 22:05

There is vast a difference between improving AI and having it clearly built around having "tank chars", "healings chars", and "dps chars".

Naturally some form of aggro has to be there - pets, mercs, whatever. But not in WoW form where you have a third of a class designed around holding it.

Funkopotamus

31-07-2008, 22:29

It makes sense for the monsters to switch targets to the player that draws its attention, especially those ones that are doing the most dmg to them.
I'm half sure they do that now. But it could be my imagination highlighting the "Why me?" moments.