View Full Version : Soulstones, Evils and Hell.
So, what do we know for facts.
We know that:
1. The Prime Evils lived in hell.
2. They forged a plan to be banished into Sanctuary by Azmodan and Belial. So that they could take over the mortal realm.
3. The Horadrim along with Tyreal imprisoned them in the soulstones which were made to contain them.
This leads to my point, since the stones was destroyed, would'nt that just set them free again? Perhaps releasing them back into hell?
Thats what my logic tells me anyway.
This would mean that with the world stone destroyed, everyone from hell can walk into Sanctuary. And who is in Hell?
Well, after we kill Andariel Cain says that she have been banished back to the burning hells. I assume the same thing happens to Duriel, and i would say that it also supports that The Greater Evils were put back there aswell.
This means that in hell we got:
Andariel, Duriel, Azmodan, Belial, Mephisto, Baal and Diablo. And probably Lilith also.
And they are free to walk into Sanctuary now.
What do you think about this?
ThulRasha
07-07-2008, 11:49
Yes, that's about it.
Except there may be something new.
The Worldstone may have a lingering effect even after it was destroyed. Perhaps the stronger demons can only now, after 20 years, get back in Sanctuary.
The demons are also not just back in full strength in Hell, after you killed them. Just like when Diablo, Baal and Mephisto were first banished from Hell, they were weakened and bodyless. (see the story about the time they were hunted by the Horadrim).
So even if the barrier that prevents them to see/enter Sanctuary is gone, they would first have to aquire new bodies and build up their strength again. Perhaps that is what they have achieved now after 20 years and that is the reason we have to battle them again.
If all you've done is send them to Hell, why in Act 4 do you go into Hell to kill Diablo and thus send him... right back to the place he was standing? I think there's either some huge inconsistencies in the universe and story, or something a little more to the killing of Prime Evils and destruction of the soulstones then just sending them back to hell.
Thirty-Thirty
07-07-2008, 15:15
I think the soulstones were more to facilitate embodiment, which gave them more power (and made them capture-able). I'm not sure how much that applied to the Lesser Evils, though, since they weren't in soulstones to start off with...
lionheart
07-07-2008, 16:00
If all you've done is send them to Hell, why in Act 4 do you go into Hell to kill Diablo and thus send him... right back to the place he was standing? I think there's either some huge inconsistencies in the universe and story, or something a little more to the killing of Prime Evils and destruction of the soulstones then just sending them back to hell.
Yea i found that pretty stupid too. They made the soulstones kinda to excuse the plot of the games but the plot itself of the soulstones always seemed flawed to me...
If all you've done is send them to Hell, why in Act 4 do you go into Hell to kill Diablo and thus send him... right back to the place he was standing? I think there's either some huge inconsistencies in the universe and story, or something a little more to the killing of Prime Evils and destruction of the soulstones then just sending them back to hell.
I thought that being trapped in the corrupted soul stone was the way they made it into Sanctuary. That it would be more difficult or impossible to get there any other way. By smashing them you a) send them back b) keep them from coming back to Sanctuary.
That doesn't really explain Duriel/Andy however.
The whole soulstone hook is weak. I am hoping they will take the chance to tie up this loose end in D3. Something like being traped in the soulstones allowed them to corrupt the worldstone. The soulstones are of the same stuff or a shard of the worldstone.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 05:13
The Prime Evils were banished to the mortal realm, where they were overcome by the Horned Death led by Belial and Azmodan.
It seems that the reason why they chased the Prime Evils out of Hell is that they believed the Angels will be forced to take their focus on the mortal plane, thus leaving the Gates Of Heaven abandoned and defenseless.
However, Belial and Azmodan began to argue over which had the higher authority and they took arms against each other. Thus a bloody civil war was launched that has lasted to this day.
So in other words, the Prime Evils have been exiled to the human world, they did not "forge a plan".
Grunthex
08-07-2008, 05:52
If all you've done is send them to Hell, why in Act 4 do you go into Hell to kill Diablo and thus send him... right back to the place he was standing? I think there's either some huge inconsistencies in the universe and story, or something a little more to the killing of Prime Evils and destruction of the soulstones then just sending them back to hell.
Well, if your goal was to destroy Diablo's soulstone, so he couldn't go BACK through the gate into Sanctuary at will, you'd probably have to kill him to get it, right? So assuming that Marius' belief that Diablo's soulstone was shattered is correct, that'd be a solid reason for hunting him down in hell and smacking him. That and shiny loot.
...
So in other words, the Prime Evils have been exiled to the human world, they did not "forge a plan".
Thats not what Izual has to say about it.
My question is, if the brothers wanted to use the corrupted soulstones, why does Baal try to destroy his?
The Prime Evils were banished to the mortal realm, where they were overcome by the Horned Death led by Belial and Azmodan.
So in other words, the Prime Evils have been exiled to the human world, they did not "forge a plan".
The Prime Evils tricked Belial and Azmodan into doing this, so they could have fun in Sanctuary.
Remember, The Demons made a deal with the angels, so they where not supposed to enter sanctuary. But this way, the big 3 believed that thay cheated that rule.
My question is, if the brothers wanted to use the corrupted soulstones, why does Baal try to destroy his?
When did baal try to destroy his stone?
Somehow Bael had managed to destroy part of his soulstone prior to capture, so Tal Rasha was forced to use his own body and the remains of Baels soulstone to imprison him. At least that is what I think I recall happening.
Yeah, DBaron has a good point. If I recall correctly, it sounded as if it was a last-ditch effort to avoid getting trapped. He couldn't fight off Tal Rasha and the Horadrim, but he did manage to shatter the soulstone - making it ineffectual. Which is why Tal Rasha had to shove the soulstone into him and be bound under the desert in an effort to keep Baal imprisoned.
Baal damaged the soulstone during the battle, cracking or shattering it. Thus preventing it from being a complete prison (not that it was anyway but the horadrim didn't know that at the time). This led to him possesing the most power mage in sanctuary. One might draw the conclusion that Baal predicted the consequences and steered the horadrim towards that path while appearing to struggle.
Thirty-Thirty
08-07-2008, 18:38
I know it's a bit of a cop-out, but I'm just going throwing it in for the sake of discussion, but maybe no-one intended for the stone to be shattered, but it just turned out that way?
lionheart
08-07-2008, 21:16
Yea, one of the mages just had butter fingers :grin:
I know it's a bit of a cop-out, but I'm just going throwing it in for the sake of discussion, but maybe no-one intended for the stone to be shattered, but it just turned out that way?
Dammit Melgin, I told you to stand guard and not let anybody touch the stone.
Durrr, you didn't say Melgin couldn't touch it, it's purdy :nod: Look Melgin fixes it.
a faint red ring appears in the grass around Melgin's feet as ringing sound is heard in the distance. It's pitch constantly changing as the meteor closes in on it's target
Baal damaged the soulstone during the battle, cracking or shattering it. Thus preventing it from being a complete prison (not that it was anyway but the horadrim didn't know that at the time). This led to him possesing the most power mage in sanctuary. One might draw the conclusion that Baal predicted the consequences and steered the horadrim towards that path while appearing to struggle.
There weren't other powerful mages/people around when Meph and Diablo were imprisoned? And besides, Baal's last minute change of plan didn't work out to well, considering he was still imprisoned, while the other two where having fun in Kurast and Tristram.
The only thing I can think of is that its a plot twist that allows for Baals soulstone to be damaged before you get there, same as D's and Mephs.
voraginous
09-07-2008, 13:40
I don't understand where Diablo's soulstone comes from at the end of D1.
Summary:
Before you start the game, Diablo is sitting in his soulstone using his powers to try to corrupt anyone who comes by/or the soulstone itself. He manages to snag Lazarus, who goes down to the cave where the soulstone was hidden and smashes it, freeing Diablo's essence. Diablo's essence floats around for a while trying to corrupt King Leoric and fails. So he takes Albrecht (Leo's son) and turns that body into his own. After the Warrior from D1 kills him, he finds Diablo's soulstone and jams it into his own head. My question is: where did that soulstone come from if Lazarus already shattered Diablo's soulstone?
ThulRasha
09-07-2008, 14:03
I don't understand where Diablo's soulstone comes from at the end of D1.
Summary:
Before you start the game, Diablo is sitting in his soulstone using his powers to try to corrupt anyone who comes by/or the soulstone itself. He manages to snag Lazarus, who goes down to the cave where the soulstone was hidden and smashes it, freeing Diablo's essence. Diablo's essence floats around for a while trying to corrupt King Leoric and fails. So he takes Albrecht (Leo's son) and turns that body into his own. After the Warrior from D1 kills him, he finds Diablo's soulstone and jams it into his own head. My question is: where did that soulstone come from if Lazarus already shattered Diablo's soulstone?
You don't remember it correctly and that is also where your question comes from.
Lazarus never smashed diablo's soulstone.
Instead, he drove it into poor Albrecht his head!
In the end cinematic you can see that the warrior takes the soulstone from a dying small humanoid with a gaping hole in his head.
voraginous
09-07-2008, 14:54
You don't remember it correctly and that is also where your question comes from.
Lazarus never smashed diablo's soulstone.
Instead, he drove it into poor Albrecht his head!
In the end cinematic you can see that the warrior takes the soulstone from a dying small humanoid with a gaping hole in his head.
OOOOOOOOOOHHH OK. :whistling: I was reading the D1 manual and it said he shattered it. Guess that was changed in game.
So then in D1 the soulstone is still in his head. So when the Wanderer kills him, he puts it in his own head. Then when you kill Diablo in D2 (in hell), you take the soulstone out and destroy it (at the hellforge, also in hell). Now theoretically, shattering a soulstone before it has a spirit in it compromises or breaks it (i..e. Tal Rasha). Shattering it after it has a spirit in it (on the hellforge) does what? Supposedly banishes them? From hell? To hell? Kills them? Weakens them? What the hell was supposed to happen? Tyrael says you banished Diablo and Mephisto "back to the Black Abyss that spawned them". Isn't that hell? So didn't you accomplish nothing? Or is there some other Black Abyss? Maybe before you killed them and shattered their soulstones they could go back and forth from and to hell/sanctuary, but now they're trapped in hell (except the shattering of the worldstone lets them in again). so they've been building strength for 20 years. I don't know. I'm confused :yes:
Destroying the stones just frees the evils from the stone. The is some implication that it is a victory over them, that the stones gave them some sort of advantage or power, but I can't figure out what it is either. The conclusion that makes the most sense to me is that being contained in the stones gave them the ability to corrupt the worldstone. Thats my best guess.
I was just playing D2, and the NPC dialogues do give a bit of insight into the real story and perhaps they can allow us to predict what will happen in D3.
From Izual:
Tyrael was a fool to have trusted me!
You see, it was I who told Diablo and his Brothers about the Soulstones and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their own exile to your world.
The plan we set in motion so long ago cannot be stopped by any mortal agency. Hell, itself, is poised to spill forth into your world like a tidal wave of blood and nightmares.
You and all your kind . . . are doomed.
I think most people believe that the Prime Evils were overthrown by the lesser evils, but apparently it was all a hoax.
From Tyrael:
Thank you, hero, for putting Izual's tortured spirit to rest. May the Light protect you and the powers of Heaven shine upon your path.
But, if what you tell me is true, then I fear that we have been played for fools all along.
Izual helped Diablo and his Brothers trick me into using the Soulstones against them . . . Now the Stones' powers are corrupted.
With the combined powers of the Soulstones under their control, the Prime Evils will be able to turn the mortal world into a permanent outpost of Hell!
So I guess the purpose of the soulstones is to help the Prime Evils take over Sanctuary, a plan likely foiled because all the soulstones (a debatable topic) are already destroyed.
Perhaps corrupting the worldstone is a backup plan?
Searching for information about Diablo sure makes me feel like Deckard Cain...
Apocalypse
11-07-2008, 01:08
man, this is great. so much talk about the story and plot in a diablo game, seems bliz really is doing the right thing by going with a deeper story in d3. i wonder if they will take the books into account though?
Twistedmill
11-07-2008, 14:02
At the time of the prime evils "banishment" there was no worldstone or soulstones(in sanctuary), that is why they could enter sanctuary. The worldstone was made after their banishment and prevented other demons(and angels) from entering sanctuary.
I think that by corrupting the soulstones the prime evils where capable of ignoring the worldstones effect to some degree and make small "bridges" between hell and sanctuary through which demons could enter sanctuary from hell, but it would probably still have required some effort, which is why they wanted to courrupt the worldstone and there by opening up the realm of sanctuary to the hordes of hell. MUHAHAHAAA!!:evil:
lionheart
11-07-2008, 14:43
The worldstone was made by Inarius when he created sanctuary, the banishment came way after that...
Twistedmill
11-07-2008, 16:00
Well, bugga :scratchchin:
Then how the did the prime evils even get in to sanctuary in the first place...I know that they where banished but that still doesn't explain how they entered the mortal realm.
Did the worldstone only hide sanctuary, which means that when the demons and angels discoved sanctuary (how did they do that when it was hidden?) that function of the worldstone was now obsolete?
Then the only function the worldstone had when it was corrupted was to keep the nephalem/humans from "awakening".
So how the hell would corrupting it make the hordes of hell capable flooding in to the mortal realm. Seems like the game and the books are contradicting each other...
I have been trying to get those very same questions answered Twistedmill. I posted a thread about it a week or so back, but it didn't seem like many people had any idea. =(
It would seem that Blizzard wasn't careful enough with the lore and have contradicted themselves on the whole soulstone thing. We might not find continuity until D3.
lionheart
11-07-2008, 22:55
Heaven and hell found out about sanctuary during the sin war. From what was going on in sanctuary, and from changes made to the worldstone by uldyssian, the place was discovered by heaven and hell ( well mostly heaven since lilith had already pilled the beans with hell ) But the war that happened with the nephalem of uldyssian weakened the worldstone and the main players of both fractions came to sanctuary. Long story short after uldyssian proved himself and became worthy before the eyes of most of the Angiris Council, a pact was struck between heaven and hell to not interfer with humans but to let them go on with their lives and choose their own path.
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.