View Full Version : About teleport ability.
I really think the Teleport ability should either not be in the game at all or really seriously nerfed. It single handedly ruined the game in so many ways. Mfing, rushing, reduced difficulty, letting other characters have it was ridiculous, shortens play time, and ruins replayability.
It also aided in item farming for item shops so they could get rich off of them too. There are so many bad things that this ability caused D2 it should be a thing of the past really.
Aaiieeee
10-07-2008, 18:50
Everyone seems to forget the sorc (or magic orientated char) is extremely physically weak. How long will they last against all those barb attacks because they can't get away (barbs can charge and casters presumable would run - obviously not fair)? Teleport is one of the benifits of being so weak, it adds elements to the game and most definatly makes pvp more dynamic and fast.
If there was a cooldown, this wouldn't help because the caster would just get caught up and killed real quick.
Teleport is a casters defense.
Resistance is a non casters defense.
I think it works out.
Personally, I really like the old style teleport..
Kiroptus
10-07-2008, 20:14
It needs a cooldown or be completely removed. I would rather see it taken away.
Plus, sorcs arent that fragile (mana shield covers that actually) and the main use for teleport was to skip everything until the boss. This argument of "they are weak so they need it!" would be valid if this was the main reason why teleport is used. Its not.
It should have received a cooldown a long time ago. Its ridiculous skipping power is what makes bots so viable.
in d1 town portal was a spell you learn, in d2 it was only possible with a scroll. teleport can be a really hard to find scroll. but then scrolls and potions wont seem to make it as instantly usable as in d2, in d3.
Everyone seems to forget the sorc (or magic orientated char) is extremely physically weak. How long will they last against all those barb attacks because they can't get away (barbs can charge and casters presumable would run - obviously not fair)? Teleport is one of the benifits of being so weak, it adds elements to the game and most definatly makes pvp more dynamic and fast.
If there was a cooldown, this wouldn't help because the caster would just get caught up and killed real quick.
Teleport is a casters defense.
Resistance is a non casters defense.
I think it works out.
Personally, I really like the old style teleport..
Set teleport to at least 5 seconds and all you needed to do was buy an act 2 merc and problem solved with physical weakness of mage classes.
I believe the issue should not be about the teleport skill, but more how is is used in a multiplayer situation. Speaking as a person who players exclusivelyin Single Player, teleport is a vital skill for my Soc.
Plus, sorcs arent that fragile (mana shield covers that actually)
It is not a matter of defence. Socs are disadvantaged in many fronts.
- They start with lower life and strength than others.
- They only gain one point of life for each level up
- They always get the slowest speed for weapons
- And most importantly have terrible hit recovery, which act like every monster has a stun skill:hang:
Without teleport my character would never make it through normal never mind anything else.
and the main use for teleport was to skip everything until the boss.
Personally speaking, in Single Player this is a bad idea. If I were to jump ahead to a boss, I would have all his friends there still and they wouldn't just sit back to watch the fight ;)
This argument of "they are weak so they need it!" would be valid if this was the main reason why teleport is used. Its not.
I use teleport only in areas that I have already cleared out by working my way through like everybody else. I just it in a fight to get to a safe spot to recover and re-order my char. It would be suicide to teleport into an unknown area alone, especially at the higher levels.
Do what you like to teleport in Multiplayer, leave it alone for Single Player!
lionheart
11-07-2008, 13:21
Im totally with you vulcon, i play SP too and teleport is something good there that doesnt constitute a problem at all
OutdoorsDude
11-07-2008, 16:56
I play on bnet, and yeah, sometimes I use it to run bosses, but more often than not I use it while fighting. I know I use it a lot whenever I fight Duriel or get surrounded.
If they do have the skill, only the sorc should have it. After a string of a dozen or so teleports it should have a considerable cooldown. It would curb boss running some and you could still use it to get out of some bad situations.
They could also up the mana cost for it. Maybe, instead of the mana cost per cast going down as you increase teleport's level, some other aspect of teleport could be increased...
pjbenkis
11-07-2008, 19:41
Line of tele with maybe a 3-5 second cool down, it would stop the insane jumping through walls, and it looks like blizzard wants to put in a lot of spawn traps, so the cool down will make you stand and fight, consequences for making the jump into the unknown.
cour de mal
12-07-2008, 04:52
Or they could add something like dead zones for tele. Have randomly generated areas with increasing frequency as you get closer to boss areas. It would still be useful for zipping quickly aroud the areas of little consequence, and it could still be useful in boss areas, but making it unreliable would prevent bots from using it, and make people think twice before counting on it as a core skill in a fight.
BAMFSpecialOps
12-07-2008, 08:40
Teleport as a sorc skill is fine, teleport on the runeword enigma needs to go.
Teleport as a sorc skill is fine, teleport on the runeword enigma needs to go.
Teleport is not fine as a sorc skill.
Teleport w/ no cooldown is not fine in any way shape or form, unless you want 50% of the characters to be sorcs at the beginning of any season of the game.
Sincubus
12-07-2008, 15:13
Do I hear barbarian lovers complain? :-p
This will all be solved by the one word I love : cooldown ;)
I bet you a beer the caster type of DIII is going to have that spell with a cooldown on it.
Borg1982
14-07-2008, 00:46
I really think this skill should either not be in the game at all or really seriously nerfed. It single handedly ruined the game in so many ways. Mfing, rushing, reduced difficulty, letting other characters have it was ridiculous, shortens play time, and ruins replayability.
It also aided in item farming for item shops so they could get rich off of them too. There are so many bad things that this ability caused D2 it should be a thing of the past really.
Teleport is the best skill in the game and probably the most useful spell/skill in the history of PC gaming.
When you haven't played D2 in years, this is what you do:
1. Create not the class you want to create, but make a Sorc first and foremost to build her then Magic Find.
2. Magic Find.
3. Create the class you really wanted because the sorc will have found equipment for it.
sterces48
14-07-2008, 07:14
sorcs keep teleport... line of sight teleport is a great idea. if sorcs stay fragile, it all but eliminates sorcs teleporting to rush for baal runs and whatnot because they'd almost be guaranteed to get clobbered...
also, perhaps make doors stay locked until that room is cleared of monsters from time to time... that's taking a page from the zelda 2 book... so many rooms that you entered in dungeons had 10 knights walking around and you had to kill all of them before you could get out of the room. i like that idea.
Teleport just needs a cooldown that decreases with skill level, down to a 1 - 2.5 second minimum. Higher mana costs is a bad idea, since when you need teleport most as an evasive skill, your mana is likely already depleted.
The problem is that you hate teleport when others use it and love it when you have it (lol).
Training and MF is so slow and frustrating when I play a meleer (plus there is the absurd IM curse).
To survive in hell these classes basically need unique elites which they won't easily find (for the previous reasons). It's like a dead circle, so the players need a second MF character (again, unbalanced game).
I never tried multiplayer, but it must be very annoying running back jumping-casting sorceress (and taking a lot of damage meanwhile).
When I play a sorceress, instead, I can rush maps in seconds and MF is a pleasure. Even if I love meleers, it's hard to go back to feet travel hehe. Teleport is a BIG difference!
I don't know what could be the solution.. maybe less teleport range?
Or enable teleport for all classes with restrictions. For example meleers will have a teleport recovery rate, so they won't be able to instantly attack. This way, if meleers manage to find this spell, they will use it for travel only. (they'll also need more base MF)
Aaiieeee
15-07-2008, 13:43
My original point is still valid, especially for pvp. Think of sorcs in D2 with a 2.5 sec cooldown... they've no chance! Almost any build would totally own them.
I completely agree with Vulcan too. You don't teleport into an area unless you know your strong enough for it.. and if you are, why walk! Its a class advantage. Other classes have different but equal advantages!
Regards to Mana Shield: so you take a heavy hit and lose your mana.. now you can't defend yourself as Mana Shield comes off (due to no mana) and you can't attack back (due to no mana).. your going to die!
The first class I go with in any game is ALWAYS the magic caster, because they are the most fun due to skills like teleport, the variety and are usually the most challenging. I will be so disapointed if they nerf teleport.
I dunno on exact numbers (I suggested 1-2.5 sec cooldown minimum), but tele needs SOME cooldown, or it will remain the abused skill it is today. I personally love sorcs, and rely heavily on tele not just for skipping straight to the boss for MF runs, but for fast-paced fire-and-dodge techniques against monsters.
Sorcs have plenty chance with a small cooldown in pvp as long as the cooldown is the right length. With zero cooldown (several teles per second), all other classes have no chance since they can't even get in range! With 5 second cooldown, they're screwed. You just need the right middle ground so that they can't tele through packs of monsters before monsters swing, and can't tele-retreat to win every single duel, but don't get pwnd due to overly long tele cooldown by monster surround or inability to evade slower pvp foes.
I dunno on exact numbers (I suggested 1-2.5 sec cooldown minimum), but tele needs SOME cooldown, or it will remain the abused skill it is today. I personally love sorcs, and rely heavily on tele not just for skipping straight to the boss for MF runs, but for fast-paced fire-and-dodge techniques against monsters.
I think this is the problem.
Teleport is very useful for a Single player, but can be heavily abused otherwise, so why not separate out the skill for the two conditions? The level of drops can vary depending on the number of participants so why not teleport.
Just to point out another advantage of teleport: you have great control over merc.
Like all of us know, he usually wanders randomly, gets surrounded easily or even gets YOU trapped while trying to save him (happens to me :doh:). So his stupidity costs 50.000 each time (or worse).
With tele, when his health bar is yellow you just move away so the monsters crowd spreads. Then the merc just needs 1 hit to a single moster to leech some life and he's back to fight. At worst you tele and TP to town and you're both safe (even that with a meleer is not as fast).
Fists of War
20-07-2008, 15:01
I think the point has been made. Cooldown is the way to go.
Yes, people are right in saying a D2 sorc without teleport would get 'owned'. Likewise, a D2 sorc with a timered teleport would also get owned. But remember, this isn't D2. Who says sorcs can't have hindering skills instead or 'running away skills' (teleport)? Sending up say, an big icewall could be just as effective a teleport. Or even adjusting damage to make sorcs almost like glass cannons, who need to use that teleport once every second or so to stay alive?
Not sure about the last one, but my main point is that you can't look at a sorc in D2 without teleport and use that as a good argument as to why any magic-using character in D3 needs it...
I am all for removing teleport or totally nerfing it. If it had both a timer, and a LOS restriction I think it may be salvageable.
I really hope to see in D3 that you can't "skip" content and rush to bosses like in D2. If you want to run bosses to find items you should have to clear the monsters on the way to the boss. The game can easily be balanced around longer time to do boss runs by increasing the chance items drop.
IMO as long as teleport or leap or even just stacking a lot of run/walk to bypass content can't happen I'll be happy.
Well, it's back!
Interestingly all teleports in the video were within the screen, (known), area.
They seem to have worked it a very interesting way. Very short casting time, you can apparently travel a whole screen and it has no cooldown. However! it seems to have a gap of time after the spell is casted, to prevent it to be casted too many times and be almost untouchable.
On top of that, we will ahve limited mana in Diablo III which will depend on mana orbs that drops which requires killing... so teleporting is kind of wasting mana that you won't be able to regenerate that easily!
Now that skill sounds balanced
Gigashadow
14-10-2008, 23:53
If they properly balance mana regain, teleport may not be a big issue. It would turn into a smart-use spell.
we can only hope, I would like to see teleport being used mostly as a way to increase manovability in combat rather than as a transport mechanism.
Saiyanora
17-10-2008, 11:43
I cant remember teleport being such an issue pre 1.10... It seems to have gathered such a bad press after Blizzard put THAT stupid armour into the game. Also the buying of mana potions didn't help!
PVP wise Sorcs need teleport, without it they don't stand much of a chance.
In PVM teleport could be given slight nerfs, only because it makes magic find and rushing a little too easy. I still remember people using Barbarians, Amazons, and Assassins for magic find; and with 1.10 Paladins are popular magic find characters, even without teleport. So it us hardly a 'be all, end all' skill for magic find. Whilst for rushing other characters were useful because they are strong, in 1.09 the Sorc was just the most popular rusher because she had tele and was also a contender for the strongest character in the game.
The merc/minions benefit is not really a teleport issue, it's an AI issue. If the AI was better, or more controllable, then teleport wouldn't be seen as so useful for a Necro or merc control.
If D2 teleport simply cost more mana, I think the problem would be solved. Say 100 (or perhaps scaling per difficulty 20/60/120, or even per character level) mana for a level 1 teleport, this would also nerf Enigma users (does it use mana? I can't remember.) Then the Sorc can reduce this mana cost with leveling the skill or +skills, say -2/3 per level.
A large mana cost is better than a cooldown:
*Energy may become a factor!
*Other item mods become useful, mana regen etc.
*A delay makes fast cast almost useless for Sorcs, since most of the powerful skills already have delays.
*Energy shield is effected (although ES/TK Sorcs wouldn't mind much!)
teh_Thrasher
18-10-2008, 01:00
totally agree with extreem, get rid of teleport. it ruins the game. ur all just making up excuses to keep it. the sorceress is a "physically weak" character so ur supposed to play her differently, u cant just run in like a barbarian. take it slow and use some forethought on ur attack plans ;)
teleport made d2 suck pretty much. everyone just got rushed through by someone with teleport and did endless baal runs (usually with someone who just teleported there)
kind of upset i saw it on the wizards skill list.
i saw it had a range of "40 feet" and the barbarians charge had 80 feet so that made me go hmm.
Gigashadow
18-10-2008, 17:41
Please don't forget that the TP situation is not the same anymore. Going to Baal and making a TP is probably impossible now.
limitedwhole
01-11-2008, 13:43
skipping everything but bosses, is a result of mpahack not teleport. And skipping everything but the bosses, isn't a good idea if you aren't twinked with godly gear, gotten from dupers and botters. It also isn't a good idea, if you wanted to get wealthy as killing lotsof weak creatures for charms and jewels makes one much richer.
Just fix hacking.
- They always get the slowest speed for weapons
Whoah, slow down a bit. Sorcs are fast with many weapons. Actually fastest of all with polearms
Frostraven
07-11-2008, 19:07
Amazons are also physically weak.
Why can't they teleport -- and how do they survive?
Necromancers are also physically weak.
Why can't they teleport -- and how do they survive?
Amazons can run.
So can the sorceress.
Amazons can dodge.
Sorceresses can block.
Sorceresses can have absurdly high defense through their armor spells.
Sorceresses have energy shield.
I know for a fact that I can create a non-teleporting sorceress who is hell viable.
I know for a fact that I can create a melee-sorceress who is hell viable.
The problem with the sorceress in PvP is that a trio of items makes people immune to all her skills.
Lightsabre + Ravenfrost + Dwarf Star OR Nord's Tenderizer + Dwarf Star + Wisp Projector OR Dwarf Star + Thundergod's Vigor + Ravenfrost.
And that's against tri-elementalists.
Against dual-elementalists, it's even easier.
Against single elementalists, it's a cakewalk -- with the exception of super-stacked negative resists cold damage -- or infinity lightning sorceresses.
Farmrush
10-11-2008, 07:37
There are no townportals.
We don't know the systems in play to stop players from rushing.
Teleport no longer works through doors/walls (as seen in the rune demo video).
Clair de Lune
26-11-2008, 17:06
If teleport has a cooldown, it'd break the spirit of teleporting around and looking cool.
I think a perfect balance is to have a burst cooldown. You can teleport 3 times in a row then a 5-30 second cooldown hits.
That keeps the spirit of teleporting rapidly in an awesome manner yet it's still balanced.
Galtrovan
26-11-2008, 18:30
There is nothing wrong with the Sorc's Teleport skill.
Enigma/Insight/Buying Mana Pots, which allows everyone to infinitely Teleport in D2, is the problem.
For D3,
- the unbalanced items do not exist
- mana pots cannot be bought
- Teleport does (appears to) not work through walls
- Teleport has entry/exit animations -- jumping into the air and disappearing; appearing out of thin air and landing (i.e. no instantaneous disappear/appear)
- Town Portal use is limited
What all this means is for D3 -- you are not going to be able to use Teleport to rush everywhere, and you certainly are not going to be able zoom to a boss and throw up a TP for the entire party.
Good riddance to all of D2's Teleport stupidity without fubar'ing the skill for the Wizard's use.
we can only hope, I would like to see teleport being used mostly as a way to increase manovability in combat rather than as a transport mechanism.
I totally agree with this one.
Teleport is vital for a spellcaster, and with a smart implantation of the right disadvantages - can be made a very interesting yet not overpowered combat skill while removing it's transportation capability.
It is a very taxing spell on the weak spellcaster's body.
Teleporting from one point into another should have it's consequences.
One option is to add randomization; you can play around with such an idea to a great extent :
Random mana cost, random chance of losing hit points, random casting animation length, random landing spot and so on...
Disrupt able casting animation is also an option - being hit while casting have a chance to disrupt the spell(this could spice up pvp's - make the caster use wise tactics vs an amazon, a barb might want to have a throwing weapon on switch etc...)
There are really many ways to skin this cat, but I don't believe in removing it altogether.
Bug it like DFlight. You don't see anyone whine about Sins teleporting...there's a reason for it.
Although, I like enigma. The other stats were fine, but I'm biased towards tele since I use it in pvp alot.
Dflight isn't very rarely used mostly because the attack speed is absolutely horrendous, same with impale. What's the bug?
D2 teleport - creates a major class imbalance
D2 enigma - creates a major equipment imbalance
(the latter is less serious)
D3 teleport - there's a million things that can be done to put tele in its place, many of which don't involve touching teleport's functionality or giving it cooldowns etc at all, or even changing the skill itself.
If tele has a recovery time as some people believe it to from the released vids, it will suck. If it has a cooldown time, it'll be an worthwhile utility. Neither of those solutions leave for me the most enjoyable playstyle of D2 intact; 'hotting'.
D3 teleport - there's a million things that can be done to put tele in its place, many of which don't involve touching teleport's functionality or giving it cooldowns etc at all, or even changing the skill itself.
.
Such as?
If tele has a recovery time as some people believe it to from the released vids, it will suck. If it has a cooldown time, it'll be an worthwhile utility. Neither of those solutions leave for me the most enjoyable playstyle of D2 intact; 'hotting'.
Mind elaborating?
Yes, I do mind, on both counts. Try these.
http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=668452
http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=688512
Dflight isn't very rarely used mostly because the attack speed is absolutely horrendous, same with impale. What's the bug?I meant very interruptible, very slow, and only on screen :whistling:
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