PvP as game creation setting?

[Tao Jones]

I'm more PK friendly than this post will sound, but sometimes when I'm out doing other things, like leveling a non-pk character, I hate it when a lvl 99 pk'er pokes around trying to ruin the fun. Suddenly, everyone is exiting. Or worse, they're relogging with their own lvl 99 pk characters. Game over.

Why not just have an option on game creation (next to level limits, player number, etc.) that specifies pk or no pk? Naturally this would require players to be able to filter games based on that category--but that's rather easy to do.

Good compromise? Or am I missing something?

[Q33]

Let me preface this by saying that Im anti-PK, and I hope its taken out of the game entirely.

Anyways, while it may seem like a good compromise in theory, in practicality, it might not work out well. The argument against that type of system is that only people who want to PK at that specific time will create/join PK enabled games(we're not talking about being pro-PK or anti-PK, we're talking about wanting to actually do the act of PK in that specific moment). So PK enable games will only be full of people wanting to PK, which would essentially turn into a dueling game.

You would seem to be the best example for this argument actually holding merit. You say you are pro-PK, but when you want to level you don't like PKers coming in (I know you use the specific example of lvl 99, so maybe you would actually enjoy a similar level PK coming in). But the result is that a pro-PKer, unless he/she wants to actually PK at that moment, will make a nonPK enabled game to level in and not be bothered. Obviously anti-PK people arent going to be making PK enabled games, and if pro-PK people who just want to level aren't going to be in PK enabled games, then who are all the pro-PKers who want to PK going to hunt? Themselves? Then why not duel?

To me, the better compromise is PK servers. When you create a character, you choose if you want join the PK community or the nonPK community. Once youve made the choice for that character, you cant change it. Basically just do what they did for softcore/hardcore to Pk/nonPK.

[Hodl Pu]

I am in favor of Tao Jones ideas. Putting on a setting for PvP would greatly help. As said already, Blizzard plans on getting rid of PKing overall.

[Tao Jones]

Interesting thoughts q33. Would all pk games devolve into dueling contests? I have doubts about that. And one way to safeguard against such an approach would be to create a class of item that would only drop during pk games. The items shouldn't be particularly powerful, but useful enough or just plain cool looking (dueling gear, ah, i can imagine possibilities here!) that their exclusion would encourage many to participate in pk enabled games without seriously hamstringing players who are anti-pk.

But that's just one idea, off the top of my head. It has to be simpler than people are making it out to be.

[Q33]

Well, like I said, those werent actually my thoughts..they were just the arguments that Ive heard of for the pro-PK side. There were some very adamant pro-PK people on these forums just a little while ago, but most of them were banned because they were immature, but they also stated they liked PKing because of the added danger, both as a PKer and as a victim. In this case, I could see this system working, because there would be people making PK enabled games to level in because of the extra "fun" of potential danger. Not my idea of fun, but apparently it is for some. So no, maybe all the games wouldnt be dueling.

Eh, Im not sure about having extra items in PK enabled games. Firstly, it would send the message from Blizzard that they are favoring those on the pro-PKing side; and I feel this would contradict with their current stance on encouraging cooperative play. Secondly, if I really wanted items that could be only found on PK servers, Id just trade for them. And finally, people could just make passworded PK enabled games to MF in to get the items, but not have to deal with PKers.

To be honest, I really don't think there is a simple solution. If there was, there wouldnt be so much controversy about PKing. Im sure these debates have been going on ever since Diablo first came out (probably since Diablo 1 came out and there was unannounced hostiles). And I doubt a good answer has been found. But it is fun to discuss and think up possible solutions!

[Tao Jones]

More good insight. The issue is much more complex than it appears.

I have to tell you that it comes as no surprise me that many from the pro-PK side have behaved immaturely on the forum. Come to think of it, separate servers may be a good idea just to get away from the REALLY immature pk'ers who join your game, hostile you, and then start spamming "town" and "chicken" and (many worse things) when you tell them you're busy.

Any solution has to be simple. It's just a game. Simple mechanics, alpha and beta-tested till balanced. Just need a good enough counterweight. I just want the option to pk, though I rarely do--most of the time it's just annoying. I think I am somewhere in the middle camp, if there is indeed a middle camp, as I am wanting to be able to turn pk on and off. Best of both worlds.

I thought it would be easy for blizzard to figure out, but it's a more complex issue than it appears at a distance.

I rather liked my idea of dueler class items, so I will attempt to address your more astute criticisms. To counter the favor aspect, you could have items of equal stats appear in non-pk games, as a reward to players who honor cooperative play exclusively, but with different name/graphics. If sets and avatars exist, perhaps these would be set items forming either a demonic or angelic avatar, depending on the pk/non-pk variety. So your criticism that such a game mechanic would make blizzard appear biased toward pk'ers is easy to work around--they both reap equal benefits with variant graphics.

I don't really think trading for dueler gear is an obstacle. A large part of D2 is based around trade, so I don't imagine D3 to be much different and if the items were part of a set it is certain that at least one would be exceedingly rare. But your final criticism, that people would make password protected pk games, is valid. Code it so that the items only drop in open games? But then that discourages many private games. I can't think of an easy workaround off the top of my head.

Just shooting the breeze. I'm sure blizzard will do something much better or worse than either of us will imagine.

[Q33]

I rather liked my idea of dueler class items, so I will attempt to address your more astute criticisms. To counter the favor aspect, you could have items of equal stats appear in non-pk games, as a reward to players who honor cooperative play exclusively, but with different name/graphics. If sets and avatars exist, perhaps these would be set items forming either a demonic or angelic avatar, depending on the pk/non-pk variety. So your criticism that such a game mechanic would make blizzard appear biased toward pk'ers is easy to work around--they both reap equal benefits with variant graphics.

I don't really think trading for dueler gear is an obstacle. A large part of D2 is based around trade, so I don't imagine D3 to be much different and if the items were part of a set it is certain that at least one would be exceedingly rare.

The angelic/demonic idea is a really interesting idea. I really like it...although I don't know if simple differences in graphics would be enough for people to want create a certain type of game (whether that be PK enabled or PK disabled). but who knows...if people are obsessed enough about the game, Im sure it would be a motivator. Or alternatively, they could actually have different items. Similar to your original idea (maybe this is what you were really getting at and I misunderstood), instead of PK enabled games having extra items, they just have different items. So some items you can ONLY get in PK enabled games, but some items you can ONLY get in cooperative games. Although it would have to be balanced so that the items are different but equal...a tough job, ha.

Hmmm, Im not sure I understand your second point about trading. What I was saying before was that for people who want the dueler gear from the PK enabled games, it wouldnt actually be necessary to go into PK enabled games. They could simply trade for them. The whole trading system would lessen the incentive to go into PK games, because there would be alternate routes to getting those items. Granted, SOMEONE has to initially find those items in PK enabled games though.

I really like the idea of angelic/demonic games...although I feel like there would have to be some other difference between the two types of games, other than PK enables and PK disabled. While this is debated alot, I feel like its a very minor and trivial issue, so I doubt Blizz would implement game changing mechanisms solely for this issue. On the other hand, if PK/nonPKing just piggy backed on another bigger issue, I could definitely see angelic/demonic games working. Now Im just dreaming up things, and it would definitely introduce so many balance problems that it would just be impractical. But maybe something where Angelic games are completely cooperative, 8 people working towards the same goal and its impossible to hostile each other, while in Demonic games people or groups are against each other both trying to achieve the same goal, and whichever person/group achieves it first gets the reward drop. And PKing would be enabled as a way to try and prevent opposing teams from achieving the goal.

[mince pies]

Tbh, I've never actually found PKing to be a problem at all in DII. The other day (on Monday, I think it was) some high level players joined and hostiled me and my friend. Now we haven't played in a while so we had ****ty characters that we were leveling up. I think we were around level 20 and the PKers were around level 80. Anyway, my point being, they hostiled us, we went back to town and waited then sure enough, about 30 seconds later the PKers left.

Another thing, when I played before I stopped for a while I had reasonably leveled chars (my highest being level 87 I think, I was neve really interested in getting to 90+) anyway, I had pretty decent equipment so I didn't need to MF so I pretty much just used to duel a lot and I thought it was fun and if PKing wasn't implemented/removed from the game then I would've been very bored and probably stopped playing altogether.

My point being; if DIII doesn't have PKing then I think it will take away A LOT of the replayability factor that I enjoy in the Diablo franchises. This is just my opinion of course and I'm not saying that it is right, just for other people to consider it. If you disagree with it then it's fine. Just thought I needed to get my point across :)

[Lynxxmania]

I do not like the idea of being able to choose pk or no pk. On the other hand I think the idea could become something if changed slightly. Why not make the damage done betwen players in a normal game (or non pk if you want to call it that) be much lower than it is now. say 1/20(numbers would have to be tested to find the right one). It would be very hard for someone to kill someone else unless in a real duel where the fight would go on for some minutes. Then there should be an option to create the game with more pk friendly damages between players, say 1/6 damage as it is now.

That way pk:ers can still have fun chasing down players in any game, they will just have to try harder and people can still have normal duels at 1/6 damage.