View Full Version : Barbarians for a Better Tomorrow!
Tao Jones
16-07-2008, 03:51
Why does blizzard have to make their main melee fighters so stupid? History is rich with examples of thoughtful knights, wise samurais, courageous bards and even viking poets.
Do we get those? No! We get a hulking barbarian. Though the other classes are still under wraps, it looks like the barbarian will be the primary melee (hand to hand combat) machine in D3.
The term barbarian itself comes from "barbarous" which hints toward lack of education, civilization... a barbarous person is someone most people suspect will act stupid and go around punching people in the face.
I'm ok with the face smashing people in the face part--sometimes that is just and deserved! However, I'm tired of barbarians being stereotyped as stupid. Just because we can't teleport around like a sorceress doesn't mean we're dumb!
Therefor, I am forming the Barbarians for a Better Tomorrow, or something. It is a tentative title for the fledgling organization, and if you can think of a better one you're automatically a member.
Barbarians for a Better Tomorrow is an informal group of barbarians who strive to erase the stereotype that all barbarians are stupid from the blizzard community by conducting themselves in a manner that sets a shining example for all barbs to follow, things like:
• Be Polite. Kill them with kindness, even when someone is spamming insults. You'll find this confuses people quickly. It's still ok to smash PKers in the face, but be polite about it.
• Hats off and weapons sheathed in town. Seriously. Why walk around with a big piñata on your head while lugging a half-ton Maul in a safe zone? That's just not friendly.
And some others that I can't think of at the moment. Any interest?
3. Have fun. It's just a game.
Ehm... barbarous actually meant 'outlander', it was a term used by the romans (or were them the greeks) to depict their nordic invaders, it started meaning ignorant in the recent times.
Why would you think blizz thinks of barbarians as dumb? I mean, what happened with Harrogath then, or even with the writings of Abd Al-Hazir, they depict barbarians as honorable, noble and great.
I don't see anything stupid in the whole idea of the barbarian. Although I had never played in battle net which probably makes some parts of my point invalid.
Still, you are fighting for a good reason, I'd go with those 2 rules for every class.
Funkopotamus
16-07-2008, 04:55
Just because we can't teleport around like a sorceress doesn't mean we're dumb!
I'm sorry, I didn't know Barbarians were being so misrepresented... and had access to the internet.
Seriously though, I don't recall anything implying they were stupid. Just very Klingon like with the honor, which in itself I find stupid but that goes for any honor based society.
Tao Jones
16-07-2008, 13:07
Seriously though, I don't recall anything implying they were stupid.
"Though perhaps lacking the sophistication of city folk, the Barbarian has an acute awareness of his surroundings."
Just one instance. It's a polite way of saying 'stupid'. And I hope people realize it's just more a fun joke than a real complaint.
Barbarians for a Better Tomorrow!
or maybe 'League of Barbarian Gentlemen'
No, it's a polite way of saying, "While not being aware of what is the proper roughness paper to wipe their *** with, they are actually competent enough to not die 5 minutes after being in dropped of in a forest filled with bunnies."
Barbarians in Diablo universe are portrayed in an exceptionally flattering light.
mince pies
17-07-2008, 01:03
The thing I like about this Tao is you've obviously began to classify yourself as a Barbarian.
Just because we can't teleport around like a sorceress doesn't mean we're dumb!
Tao Jones
17-07-2008, 02:52
The thing I like about this Tao is you've obviously began to classify yourself as a Barbarian.
Well, I'm definitely prefer the hands-on type of players that don't require finesse. The reason is that I travel a lot--connection is often iffy and my mac book just isn't a great gaming laptop. Barbarian's a good choice to survive frequent lag spikes.
And there's also something appealing to me about physically smashing enemies in the face. :strong:
ironrunes
17-07-2008, 14:43
"Though perhaps lacking the sophistication of city folk, the Barbarian has an acute awareness of his surroundings."
I don't think that means "stupid". That means "Even if he doesn't go to bars and clubs, wears pelts and isn't the top guy you want to be seen around with downtown, the barbarian knows how, why, and when to smash faces".
Which I think is perfectly acceptable and by no means stupid. Actually I think it's very polite.
Being the way they are Barbs inform promptly that they are an inch away from smashing your face. That's nice.
:whistling:
Captain Marvel
17-07-2008, 21:28
The term barbarian is derived from Greek, and originally meant only a person who did not speak Greek, the folk etymology being that non-Greek speakers sounded like they were wandering around mumbling "barbarbarbarbar". At first, it had no specific pejorative connotation, after all advanced cultures like the Egyptians and Persians were referred to as barbarians. The Romans adopted the term to signify people outside of their military and political control, and it was adopted by western tradition and associated with those European tribes who caused the Romans so much trouble with during their migrations.
As said, many barbarian cultures were depicted as wise and knowledgeable by both the Greeks and Romans. One more applicable to this case would be Caesar's description of the Druidic sect in Britain, a notably barbarian culture, but with a strong association with knowledge and wisdom.
Tao Jones
18-07-2008, 16:59
The term barbarian is derived from Greek, and originally meant only a person who did not speak Greek, the folk etymology being that non-Greek speakers sounded like they were wandering around mumbling "barbarbarbarbar". At first, it had no specific pejorative connotation, after all advanced cultures like the Egyptians and Persians were referred to as barbarians. The Romans adopted the term to signify people outside of their military and political control, and it was adopted by western tradition and associated with those European tribes who caused the Romans so much trouble with during their migrations.
As said, many barbarian cultures were depicted as wise and knowledgeable by both the Greeks and Romans. One more applicable to this case would be Caesar's description of the Druidic sect in Britain, a notably barbarian culture, but with a strong association with knowledge and wisdom.
I commend, my brother, for your efforts to bring enlightenment to the rest of the Diablo community, and invite you to join me in The Barbarians for a Better Tomorrow (tentatively titled).
Your history lesson is accurate, though it overlooks ample examples that the greeks used the term in the pejorative sense. Outside of more scholarly research, the term barbarian retains its pejorative connotation today.
The sad truth is there is no historical record of any barbarian culture identifying with the term, and further you describe the root of the word while forgetting that it is the modern equivalent of the "Derka Derkas" from Team America, which is a rather hilarious movie.
Sincerely,
Tao Jones the Bar-Bar-Bar-Barian.
The term barbarian is derived from Greek, and originally meant only a person who did not speak Greek, the folk etymology being that non-Greek speakers sounded like they were wandering around mumbling "barbarbarbarbar". At first, it had no specific pejorative connotation, after all advanced cultures like the Egyptians and Persians were referred to as barbarians. The Romans adopted the term to signify people outside of their military and political control, and it was adopted by western tradition and associated with those European tribes who caused the Romans so much trouble with during their migrations.
As said, many barbarian cultures were depicted as wise and knowledgeable by both the Greeks and Romans. One more applicable to this case would be Caesar's description of the Druidic sect in Britain, a notably barbarian culture, but with a strong association with knowledge and wisdom.
This is correct :). Barbarbar very much like when someone goes kekekek to insult Koreans. As a curiousom, Christians were named so in likewise manner, they said Christ all the time.
About the Romans, the gloryfication of enemies usually only grew after the victory was won. The logic was like; if our enemies are so and so herotic, what must we their vanquishers not be. So praise the enemy to indirectly boast of yourself.
LarryPaul
23-07-2008, 21:52
Sometimes, the sentence "It's just a game" is really called for.
Also, When has Blizzard EVER portraited the barbarian more slow than any of the other characters? I'd like to see some examples.
Seems to me you're just cocking about.
The top ramen
23-07-2008, 22:25
I don't get it... Why play a Barb when theres Summon Necros and Trap assasins!!!!! I swear if they don't give that WD a clay golem....
You're reacting to the general meaning of the word "barbarian" and not going by what's in the actual diablo fiction. here's a quote from the d3 barb page:
Though they were once misunderstood as simple, bloodthirsty invaders, the long and noble history of these proud people is now rightly acknowledged. And therein lies the greater tragedy here, for those of us familiar with the nobility of the barbarians remember too what they call their "vigil", the concept that lay at the very heart of their culture. The barbarians consider it their sworn duty to protect Mount Arreat and the mysterious object within. They believe that if they fail to uphold their duty to the great mount, or are not given a proper burial upon its slopes, they will be denied a true warrior's death, and their spirits shall roam the land without honor for all eternity.
they're civilized and strong, they're just warlike and tend to prefer brute force in their combat to finesse and magic. Humans adapt their fighting technique to their abilities and size and skill. And when you're 2 meters tall and massively powerful, you use your natural talents at smashing things, and find skills that complement your power.
........they're civilized and strong, they're just warlike and tend to prefer brute force in their combat to finesse and magic. Humans adapt their fighting technique to their abilities and size and skill. And when you're 2 meters tall and massively powerful, you use your natural talents at smashing things, and find skills that complement your power.
....like a giant hammer appearing out of nowhere to smash things. It is was a sorc it certainly wouldn't be a hammer that appeared.
SacredFlame
24-07-2008, 23:39
I like how Barbarians fight just fine.
Mizantrop
25-07-2008, 01:53
Actually I think there is some truth in saying that Blizzard portraits Barbarians as stupid or primitive, at least in thier comical Bliz-way.
The Barbarian NPCs in Harrogath have a lot to say about the siege. Often when you gossip with one of them they'll tell you how silly (smart?) Larzuk is with his mad (genius!) ideas.
Quotes from the game:
Larzuk
I’ve offered Qual-Kehk my ideas on how to break the siege, but he dismisses them. Is it because I lack scars of battle? Or does he think I’m a couple arrows short of a quiver?
Malah
Larzuk possesses a good soul, but at times his mind seems quite unsound. He once asked me for twenty of my finest sheepskins. He said he would fill them with hot air and float like a cloud above the battlefield to spy on Baal’s legions. I worry the siege has driven him mad.
Qual-Kehk
Larzuk is a talented blacksmith, but his head is full of some strange ideas. Just the other day he came to me with a plan to break the siege. He wanted to fill large pipes with exploding powders and steel balls, and then, well, *chuckles* well, like I said. Strange.
Kinda OT: If Qual-Kehk is not a Klingon name I don't know what is.
Mizantrop
25-07-2008, 02:16
Found another one by Nihlathak:
If you’re looking for cases of treacherous magic, Assassin, take a hard look at Larzuk. He was the only one in town that escaped the red fever last spring. He claimed his good fortune was due to hand washing before meals. Very suspicious.
Barbarian is actually an ancient Greek onomatopoetic word to describe the sound of foreign languages spoken by 'brutish' civilizations ("bar bar bar").
If they don't include find potion/item, i'll never make a barb. Horking ftw!
take care,
Iomanip
UnderAge
26-07-2008, 08:49
Its a game... Play the character or not
Honestly I was laughing during half this thread lol. "Barbarians for a better tomorrow", it sounds like you're doing a fund raiser for barbarians so they can afford a home.
Technically barbarians do lack book smarts, but there is a clear difference between book smart and street smart
The barbarians have the "street smarts" of the old medieval times, even though they don't know algebra or calculus, they know advance techniques on hunting, how to survive, combat, and more.
they know advance techniques on ... how to survive....
Sounds like a Ranger skill in some RPG's. Guild Wars has Wilderness Survival but for a Ranger, not a Warrior. I wonder how that can help Barbs. The Barb of D2 has the shouts that give extra skills or whatever. How could something like Wilderness Survival help the Barb of D3? Open for discussion...
How? They improve the "Find XXX" line!
Level 1: Find Potion
Level 6: Find Item
Level 12: Make a Monster Shishkabob
Level 18: Make a Fire
Level 24: Build TV
Level 30: Summon a Courtesan
It's the perfect line and has easy to make synergies! Like Find Potions will recover a bottle of ketchup, and then you eat a nice fallen leg that you roasted over the fire while watching TV and get... entertained by the courtesan!
Brother Laz
03-08-2008, 20:53
Barbarians are this close to having cannons and zeppelins, if they just let Larzuk do his thing. Even the Middle Easterners haven't gotten much further than everyone else, other than having the best drugs. At this rate, the barbarians will be on the moon in 50 years.
viking poets
Vikings also developed more advanced armor, weapons, navigation and ship technologies than any other European culture had at the time. They were more into personal hygiene than what was common and they treated women as equals (they should be in the house of course, but their opinion meant something), which was unheard of in most parts of the world.
The vikings are a prime example to show that you can be sophisticated, intelligent, fearless and bloodthirsty all at the same time which then illustrates that even though the barbarian might be a brutal melee fighter relying on muscle, he doesnt have to be stupid. In fact he wouldnt have survived that long if he was.
I was taught in school that the term Barbarian derived from the Roman word for beard or bearded one. It was used to differentiate the romans (who liked to be clean shaven) from those northern non-romans (that wore beards).
Was this fallacy?
Google is your friend. The romans and greeks had different words -
Greeks - barbaros - foreign
Latin - barbarus - bearded
Today - barbers - Sworn and Eternal Enemies of Barbariakind
JollyGreen
14-08-2008, 10:36
Personally, I think barbarians are the best melee character they could have chosen, the whole concept of the barbarian is so cool to me.. A prideful nomadic warrior with an acute sense of the wild and an unchallenged mastery of hand to hand combat. A barbarian is widely understood to be a giant brute force which is unmatched in straight up melee combat. Other characters like a knight would be too similar to a paladin, and a warrior is kind of overused and boring, not to mention that it was already corrupted in the first one. It just seems to me that, if your going to make a character that is based on pure melee, a barbarian would have to be that character.
CaptainDingo
14-08-2008, 14:38
The Barbarian seemed dumber in Diablo 2 than he does in Diablo 3. He's clearly matured a bit and instead of hooting and hollering like the Hulk, he seems to have been given an intelligent-sounding accent and seems totally capable of potentially using big words. So I think you're not giving Blizzard any credit here. :P
stillman
15-08-2008, 11:16
Barbarians are whirling, raging, out of control monsters in battle.
The enemies are whirling, raging, out of control monsters in battle.
Hmmm....it seems the heros, the barbarians, are emulating the devils they fight against. I'll go with knights any day.
Think about it; aren't screaming warcries, going into a mad frenzy, mimicing a whirling devil, and going berserk the types of things evil monsters do?
I use swords
They use swords...I'm evil?!
Nah, they're just passionate about what they do and good at it.
I don't remember any enemies using whirlwind.
I think the appeal of the barbarian is two-fold (obviously I intend to explain below):
1) The savage, ruthless, Conan-esque warrior. Doesn't mince words with diplomats or needlessly flatter. Brutal in war, brutal in everything. Don't ask a barbarian if you look fat, he'll tell you the truth. Don't tell a barbarian to mind her place, she'll put you in yours. Barbarians hold nothing back. They have one solution to every problem (hint: it's attack). "Some one is beseiging our fortress." "Attack!" "They've captured our men" "Attack!" "They're marching on the world stone." "Attack!" Its that kind of one track mind that makes them fun. Don't bother with 'tactics' or 'diplomacy'. Now, this gets them in trouble sometimes. Obviously their tactics weren't working at Mt. Arreat, but they were damn well going to try. The barbarian lets you go on a low-thought high-emotion roller coaster of impulsive action and the biceps to follow through.
2) The noble savage. No, they aren't 'schooled' or book learned, but they know right from wrong. In fact, they know it better than anyone. The entire Order of Zakarum in Kurast was corrupted because they didn't know when fighting demons stopped and being demons began. A mass betrayl against their leader Kahlim resulted in putting a whole area at risk. Sure, the barbarians end up with a bad egg or two *cough*nihlathak*cough* but a mass defection is unheard of. Even old n-word (as the barbarians probably know him) thought it was a 'necessary evil'. The savage barbarian provides an invariable moral compass for the diablo cast and crew. Being completely honest, the barbarian lets you ride your 'high horse' about the other corrupted groups. The worst barbarian-esque enemies you face are the ancients, who's true purpose is to make sure that only the worthy get to go in.
Thats what I think draws people to the 'big dumb meatbag'(term not recommended for use around barbarians).
Even the Middle Easterners haven't gotten much further than everyone else, other than having the best drugs.
As rude as that was, I couldn't help but laugh. AM I BAD PERSON!? :O
These comments also explain a reason why blizzard might have felt it important to include the barbarian, aside from being able to smash stuff. If they held their duty to guarding mount arreat so sacred, and since the worldstone has been destroyed, they would feel like they have failed in their charge. They would therefore want to make up for their perceived failure, and continue to fight.
As to the main argument, to me the barbarian is elegant in his simplicity. Not needing or wanting all of the so called trappings of civilization, the barbarian sticks to what he/she does best, and is very good at it. He may use an axe to kill his enemies instead of a fireball, but by golly he is the best at swinging that axe.
And wasn't Nihl a necro?
The Barbarian is one of the most popular and abundant players on battle.net so why would they make it unrecognizable as a barbarian?
Maybe not "historically accurate" or based on anyone real, but he still looks like the famous Diablo Barb.
Deuterium
22-08-2008, 08:21
I don't remember any enemies using whirlwind.
I think the appeal of the barbarian is two-fold (obviously I intend to explain below):
1) The savage, ruthless, Conan-esque warrior. Doesn't mince words with diplomats or needlessly flatter. Brutal in war, brutal in everything. Don't ask a barbarian if you look fat, he'll tell you the truth. Don't tell a barbarian to mind her place, she'll put you in yours. Barbarians hold nothing back. They have one solution to every problem (hint: it's attack). "Some one is beseiging our fortress." "Attack!" "They've captured our men" "Attack!" "They're marching on the world stone." "Attack!" Its that kind of one track mind that makes them fun. Don't bother with 'tactics' or 'diplomacy'. Now, this gets them in trouble sometimes. Obviously their tactics weren't working at Mt. Arreat, but they were damn well going to try. The barbarian lets you go on a low-thought high-emotion roller coaster of impulsive action and the biceps to follow through.
2) The noble savage. No, they aren't 'schooled' or book learned, but they know right from wrong. In fact, they know it better than anyone. The entire Order of Zakarum in Kurast was corrupted because they didn't know when fighting demons stopped and being demons began. A mass betrayl against their leader Kahlim resulted in putting a whole area at risk. Sure, the barbarians end up with a bad egg or two *cough*nihlathak*cough* but a mass defection is unheard of. Even old n-word (as the barbarians probably know him) thought it was a 'necessary evil'. The savage barbarian provides an invariable moral compass for the diablo cast and crew. Being completely honest, the barbarian lets you ride your 'high horse' about the other corrupted groups. The worst barbarian-esque enemies you face are the ancients, who's true purpose is to make sure that only the worthy get to go in.
Thats what I think draws people to the 'big dumb meatbag'(term not recommended for use around barbarians).
lol "old n-word"
I don't think barbarians are that stupid. Larzuk was about to make boomsticks, but everyone thought he was silly.
Barbarians are just emotional creatures T.T
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