I see a lot of debate.

[Punkonjunk]

Why wouldn't D3 just have a server FOR PK, like an ANARCHY SERVER, where everyone is always hosty, and you can just PK on a whim, anyone you see for any reason, like many other games, like many Pservers for RO, or requiem, etc.
And a regular server, requiring standard request to duel type stuff?
I'd like that a lot more. I'm sure this has been addressed at some point, but I can't see why this wouldn't just end the debate right here and there.

[konfeta]

Community splitting is never a good thing. It is preferred to find a solution that is liked by both parties instead of just separating them.

[Hodl Pu]

Blizzard said they would like to avoid splitting the community to that extent. They want to keep the gaming community as a whole as much as possible. With Hardcore and Softcore, doing another sever split would hinder their vision.

[Tai.]

Blizzard said they would like to avoid splitting the community to that extent. They want to keep the gaming community as a whole as much as possible. With Hardcore and Softcore, doing another sever split would hinder their vision.

That's basically the extent this needs to be explained. It's preferable to keep the community unified so there aren't any objections about one server getting it easier and forcing people to play on that server or fall behind.

I'm sure this has been addressed at some point, but I can't see why this wouldn't just end the debate right here and there.

Yes, things similar to this have been brought up multiple times and generally the reaction has been split between those who see things the way you do and those who don't want to be punished for their preference for a game with PK enabled.

Ironically, both sides feel the exact same way that you do (generally I feel most posters do) that their statement is enough to end the debate. It never is.

Cheers
-Tai

[Punkonjunk]

Oh, I didn't think I'd end the debate. I just wanted more info. I don't mind a server split because seriously, this game is gonna have sooooo many players. HC/SC is one split, so we could have HCPK, HKnoPK, SCPK, SCnoPK.

Because the way I see it, everyone will have to accept an annoying comprimise if they don't split it. I'd like a "kill anyone at any time" server. When I first discovered games like this, I fell in love, and would love D3 to have that - but on the other hand I recognize that many people hate that. i mean, hell, they could not even have a HC server like that, as it might be stupid.

[voraginous]

I like the server split idea. If being PKed is SO much fun for the prey, there should be no problem filling those servers right? Oh wait.. PKers only want to kill people who don't want to be killed. Griefing is an integral part of their playstyle, so of COURSE they hate the idea of a server split. I frankly think that the idea of prey enjoying being PKed is a load of horse manure, but if there are enough people out there who do like it, then I see no reason to deny them a server of their own. I can even see it being fun, I might play--especially if there were no hacks, but no sense allowing PKs to ruin everyone elses game otherwise.

[konfeta]

If you go down this road, everyone will want their own special server where people who aren't like them wouldn't play.

[Punkonjunk]

If you go down this road, everyone will want their own special server where people who aren't like them wouldn't play.

Nah, that's silly. Many games offer a standard server, and a PK server.

[Gamekk]

a server FOR PK

#1 Too WoWish
#2 It sucked in WoW

[Gigashadow]

The idea is fine and I don't see why people are worried about community splitting. We already have East, West, Asia, Europe, Ladder, non-Ladder, Softcore, Hardcore.

Adding PK servers would be better than removing them altogether. Even if they community gets smaller, that's not really a bad thing, you'll recognize people better. Huge communities kinda feel... huge.

[Arkansaw]

Looking at D2 circumstances, I think restricting the split to a per-game basis would be better. To spice things up further, they can even allow PK to happen in non-PK games, but with some hefty penalties for the initiator and/or some perks for the PvM-ers that stay on to kill monsters for some slight EXP-boost etc

[phool]

Instead of pvm+pvp mode and a pvm-only realm, I want a pvp-only mode and a pvm+pvp realm. I agree with Gigashadow splitting isn't necessarily a bad thing, the current size of euscl d2c for example is pretty good, assuming you play at semi-peak times... you can expect to see a lot of familiar faces with the more hardcore players, as well as many fresh ones, and if you run around being an asshole, you should be aware your actions have just that tiny bit more consequence as a result. But I think a pk emphasised realm would pretty much be populated so heavily by pks it just wouldn't be an entertaining environment to pub pvm in, resulting in basically a pvp realm (as opposed to a pk realm) with all the disadvantages of current d2 pvp but taking longer to level, and with nearly none pub interaction.

As for on a per game basis, from the perspective of someone who is still in the leveling/progressing process and unequipped to deal with pks, what are you going to do; join the game with pks who are likely to force you to leave/disrupt your play or join the game without? The only people who would join are people looking for a duel... = death of pk... not necessarily an unpopular thing, but I'm against it. PKing is great a rush as it has higher stakes than other pvp. It's seriously embarrassing if you lose as the PK, and more of a rush if you win as the PKK. For that reason alone I hope it stays, and I'm personally prepared to deal with the occasional inconvenience of being forced into town/out the game to keep it.

[Arkansaw]

Ah yes, maybe some incentives for entering PK games too, but surely there would be enough masochistic 'getting (the chance to be) PK-ed is fun' types (like those that pro-PKers are always talking about) to keep them sustainable

[Tai.]

Thanks for stating those things Phool. To the OP, if you have the option of choosing a server where you can play free of fear and, if the PvM is the same difficulty as D2, risk of dying why would you choose to play on a PK server? Yea, yea, I know, people are gonna argue that people like the risk of PKs in their game so they'll choose to be on a PK server right? Some will, but most will not. If one server contains every PKer from every realm currently and lets say 1/4 of the PvMers (I think a bit high of an approximation, but workable) the ratio of PK/PvM will be so high that the PKs will literally be hostiling every party. It won't be a risk, it will be a certainty. You'll have to play solo so they can't track you and people will be being constantly driven out of your games, limiting your experience.

Now you find yourself basically playing solo, with a large percentage of the people likely to join your game out to kill you - doesn't seem to me much of an improvement over solo passworded games. If you do choose to stay on this server, you can be basically assured of smaller party sizes, less experience and constant disruption - in other words you will get less PvM accomplished than if you were on another server in exchange for the "thrill" of being hunted (I use quotes because after it happening multiple times a game in 20 straight games I doubt the thrill will remain) hardly a fair trade in my eyes, even as someone who loves the risk of being PKed.

It seems to me only a matter of time before PvM players become sick of the disadvantages imposed on them to play in an environment that encompasses all aspects of the game and will be given two options: move onto a PvM only server so they can be competitive in the PvM aspect of the game - or - turn to PvP themselves to make use of the server fully. Either way, we find a server that over time will become a larger percent PvP and lower PvM until nobody wants to start a new character there and it basically becomes a duel only realm and PKing dies.

I'm not going to say that this will not be implemented in D3, as the developers have said they aren't basing D3 on previous games, but rather what they find fun and that PKing is not fun in their eyes. I will however say that if such a system is enacted to allow people who enjoy the threat of PK to partake in it, it will inevitably amount to the same thing as a removal of PK altogether.

In my mind it is analogous to having random deaths, like instakill trapped chests or quests you have to die during to complete and then making HC an option. You'd be pandering to the HC crowd by including it in the game and thus boosting your sales, but it would reach a point of unplayability and would in essence be a farce. We can see an example of this in the Permadeath instituted by Everquest a while back.

Either Leave PK in the game or have the Courage to openly destroy it, this dancing around the issue feels dishonest to me.

Cheers
-Tai

[phool]

The thing about a pk on realm, assuming the hostile system remained the same (minus tppk), is that there is no actual risk of being 'pked' in the sense of being actually forced to fight - just risk of being inconvenienced. With better equipped, purpose built pkers joining basically every game, coop pub pvm would be basically unplayable and with no advantage of being on the realm and almost no-one would want to split there wealth across mutually exclusive realms I'd be amazed if the realm wouldn't take off at all. I know I wouldn't and I support having pk in D3. People are going to get used to pkers very fast indeed and will either town, quit, or deliberately choose to fight... there will be no stragglers to hunt as you might see in an SC CS/baal run raid, just guys sitting in town and willing participants in a duel. At which point it ceases to be pk.

I really think the splitting realms idea should be dismissed.

[sicilian]

The problem is most PKers don't want a fight... they want a HUNT. They want to find an unsuspecting noob and catch them when they think they're safe.

PVP servers/games would be populated by people who like to PVP, thus are probably better at it and are paying more attention (on average anyway, you'll always have exceptions).

I don't PK, I don't like it, but I generally play with friends in password games so it never really affected me. I don't condone griefing, I'm just saying that's the mindset for a lot of these players.

Disclaimer: I also realize there are many who PK for different reasons, but you'll never convince me that the majority do it for the reasons I stated above.

[Gigashadow]

I don't really so much mind PK hunters, they are kinda funny (I met this guy on HC and he kept chasing me game-to-game, so I ask him why does he do it, he said: "I dunno" LOL). But most PK'ers I met are assholes.

PvP zones are a whole other story. You agree to PvP so you can properly get ready for it...

[5zigen]

Instead of pvm+pvp mode and a pvm-only realm, I want a pvp-only mode and a pvm+pvp realm. I agree with Gigashadow splitting isn't necessarily a bad thing, the current size of euscl d2c for example is pretty good, assuming you play at semi-peak times... you can expect to see a lot of familiar faces with the more hardcore players, as well as many fresh ones, and if you run around being an asshole, you should be aware your actions have just that tiny bit more consequence as a result. But I think a pk emphasised realm would pretty much be populated so heavily by pks it just wouldn't be an entertaining environment to pub pvm in, resulting in basically a pvp realm (as opposed to a pk realm) with all the disadvantages of current d2 pvp but taking longer to level, and with nearly none pub interaction.

I would call that a worst case scenario, personally.

[Punkonjunk]

The problem is most PKers don't want a fight... they want a HUNT. blah blah blah


I don't PK, I don't like it, but I generally play with friends in password games so it never really affected me. I don't condone griefing, I'm just saying that's the mindset for a lot of these players.

PKers are both griefers and those who enjoy initiating a fight without asking for it. I don't play WoW, I think it's stupid. I play a number of very PK friendly games, namely VanRO. 1 safe town. Entire gigantic world. Sometimes it's fun to pick a level 5, follow him around and hamper him from ever getting up to 300 like the big guys for a few hours. But more often than not, it's fun to pick fights for NO REASON with people leveling in the same area with you, likely as good or better than you. With a high cost - exp loss and a long walk back.
It adds a lot to that game for me. I'd love for this game to emulate that a little bit. If I see someone, I want to chuckle and kill them. Or try. Thats one way to really quickly test out a PvP build, eh?

So yeah.

[Kiroptus]

PK is dead as far as we know it. Its not going to be in D3 in any way. Good riddance.

[stillman]

Community splitting is never a good thing. It is preferred to find a solution that is liked by both parties instead of just separating them.

But why is community splitting so bad and dreaded? What's the problem with it? The way I see it, community splitting can be good for the ecconomy. If there are 100,000 people with shakos, then shakos become rather worthless. If only 1000 people have shakos, they are more rare and special. We get excited when someone flashes one in trade screen.

I'd be happy with many different modes and only a couple thousand of folks on each mode. It would be a more tight nit neighborhood like HC is. And if people start disregarding one mode and move to the "easier" one, well that just makes the less famous modes even moreso like small towns where everyone knows everyone. Can you imagine being just one out of <20 people who have Tyreals? I'd prefer to be famous on one mode than being lev 96 on a mode with a quarter million users with tens of thousands of lev 96's where people see my lev 96, and go "meh, who cares."

[Kiroptus]

Community spliting certainly isnt a good thing. (Was one of the things that hurted HGL, there were like 8 modes).

The thing is... I dont see the point of this suggestion, the developers are aiming to make Diablo 3 more coop-friendly and then you want a server just for PKrs? It just makes D3 looks schizofrenic. If their main vision for the game is to have it coop-friendly, PK has no place in it, its just a waste of bandwich because most people would play on a normal server anyway because thats how the game has been designed to.

Plus the "PK-Community" isnt even that vocal enough to accomplish the horrible PK system implemented back in D3. Just let it go. Your vocal numbers are pathetic.

People were assholes in the past and are even more assholes nowdays, every good game developer aims to make a team or coop-game not so grief friendly, PK is just an intrument to griving, if Diablo was a full open MMO it would be interesting but its an instanced dungeon crawler, PKing is just made for the sake of ruining someone's game and forcing them to recreate. It just an annoyance.

PK is dead, The PK-lovers will have to find another game for your sickening griveing methods.

[ThulRasha]

D3 will not even have servers that way. It will be more like D2 and Starcraft.
The host could have a setting "free pvp" and those games could show up in the game list in a different color.
Why is everyone talking about server splits, as if this would be an mmorpg?

[Frostraven]

Mutual agreement pvp -- or always friendly-fire/pvp server.

There.

No ****ing random pk when I fight the forces of evil.
When someone kills someone fighting the forces of evil without warning, they are logically not on the side of good and should thus be unable to play any good campaign in diablo iii as they are on the side of the undead and demons.

Beeing hunted is never fun when you don't want to be hunted.
If you want to be hunted, agree to the PK-ers plead for hostile interaction.

Anything wrong with that?
If they want random Pvp -- they should've made a system that makes sense.
It does not make sense to have soldiers on the side of light randomly flip out and kill people.
It does make sense to have soldiers on the side of darkness to non-randomly not flip out and kill people, but kill people because they're on the freaking side of darkness and that's what they're supposed to do, and the players on the side of light will know that.

There.
PvP between consenting adults.
That way, it's never rape; noone gets hurt and noone's a complete bastard.

[Peli]

This is Diablo not WOW. There is no need to "pick" a server... you could toggle pvp on/off when you create a game, so therefore we could have ridiculously fun events like hardcore pandemonium untwinked pvp active race to Andariel. The pvp flag needs to be promenently displayed so no one accidentally joins a pvp game thinking its a normal game, but theres no reason to "split" the community.

[fatwisconsinguy]

you could toggle pvp on/off when you create a game

QFT. This is my opinion of what blizzard will do, It'll be a simple click of a button, same goes for what difficulty you choose.