Busier towns

[Artimedes]

This time I would really like to feel like I'm part of a much larger world. In the last couple Diablos it really only felt like it was the players plus a few other random npcs that existed in the entire universe. This time I hope some of the bigger towns are full of people walking around going about their daily business. And maybe they could even hold seasonal festivals and do different things during different times of the day. Some of them may even travel town to town in order to find different items to buy/sell. Just a thought.

[Fleshvirus]

/signed
Great idea and would really make the make more interactive

[AlexanderM]

Traveling merchants that sold strange or specialized items! Can you imagine if you came back to town to find a random merchant at the town square selling charms or jewels, or something else that merchants don't typically sell? I love the idea!

[sicilian]

Traveling merchants that sold strange or specialized items! Can you imagine if you came back to town to find a random merchant at the town square selling charms or jewels, or something else that merchants don't typically sell? I love the idea!

Yeah, anything to add a more varying flavor to replays. Even if these types of things are rare, with the amount of time we're bound to spend playing, you'll run across them often enough.

[theBanger]

Sounds cool. Totally agree that the previous Diablos felt kinda small.

[entranced]

Traveling merchants that sold strange or specialized items! Can you imagine if you came back to town to find a random merchant at the town square selling charms or jewels, or something else that merchants don't typically sell?


Oh that's an excellent idea, and fits perfectly into the randomness of the Diablo series (and what i love about it)!

[AlexanderM]

I recall hearing about the scripted events they were planning on including in D3, (source: http://www.cnet.com.au/games/pcs/0,239029655,339290414,00.htm) and this would jive very well with that. It almost hearkens back to Diablo 1's quests that you'd sometimes get, and sometimes not (only one of my three characters ever got the Harlequin Crest Quest in D1, thankfully my sorcerer!).

[phaolo]

I'd like more people in the towns too. If they could open new subquests, create new shop options, add precious hints and stories it would be even better.

A bad thing for me, however, is that when you finish an Act all the previous NPCs become suddenly useless. I personally need more background story, happenings and gratefulness to really care about those citizens. More RPG deepness? :dontknow:

Random merchants would be interesting, but I fear that would simply end with.. merchant runs! Like MF but even worse as they're in town..

[Artimedes]

I'd like more people in the towns too. If they could open new subquests, create new shop options, add precious hints and stories it would be even better.

A bad thing for me, however, is that when you finish an Act all the previous NPCs become suddenly useless. I personally need more background story, happenings and gratefulness to really care about those citizens. More RPG deepness? :dontknow:

Random merchants would be interesting, but I fear that would simply end with.. merchant runs! Like MF but even worse as they're in town..

Maybe you'd have a limit of 5 purchases per week or something like that for big items, maybe less. And he could have different special potions week to week also or something like that, not just magic items. Or enchants, runes, or whatever other magic effect items will be in D3. They may even be able to open new quests in old areas. Hopefully the acts wont be as linear this time so old npcs dont get forgotten.

[stillman]

There could also be random merchants with something irresistable but very expensive, which could act as a gold sink in they need gold sinks.

I'd like it if the busy town was even busier because it is where we see all of our chrs standing around waiting to make or join games. This would be better than having us all lined up like in a shooting gallery as in d2. Kind of a different idea all together though.

[sicilian]

There could also be random merchants with something irresistable but very expensive, which could act as a gold sink in they need gold sinks.

I'd like it if the busy town was even busier because it is where we see all of our chrs standing around waiting to make or join games. This would be better than having us all lined up like in a shooting gallery as in d2. Kind of a different idea all together though.

Eh, that kind of takes away from the immersion for me. If I see hundreds of heroes in town all about to head out and kill, it makes me feel like I'm not needed. "We must stop Diablo! If we don't who wi... oh. Right. All them..."

[AlexanderM]

I stick with single player. Zero change a lv99 barbarian in amazing gear who'll pop into my world and one-shot Diablo before I can spend 5 minutes wailing on him :D

[Artimedes]

Eh, that kind of takes away from the immersion for me. If I see hundreds of heroes in town all about to head out and kill, it makes me feel like I'm not needed. "We must stop Diablo! If we don't who wi... oh. Right. All them..."

As far as players are concerned I think they should only show the people in your game, which would be 8 im guessing. But I would love to see hundreds of npcs in the larger towns.

[Dwovar]

You know what would be really cool (obviously, from my point of view).

If we can bring back the random quests, and have the random events, could we get random townsfolk?

Sure, there will always be Cain, and there will always be Tyrael. But what if each relevant NPC (shop owners, quest givers, merc sellers) had different names and different 'toons'? These don't have to be tied into the quests at all. But lets say instead of just charsi, each time you started a new game you could get the Big Innocent Charsi, Overweight Empathetic Josa, or the Tan Sarcastic Ysaba.

I think that'd add a lot of replayability and make the town seem more diverse. I feel bad every time Charsi asks me to go get her hammer, because I look at her and think "Seriously, again? You forgot it again? I'm going to nail that hammer to your naive little face and you'll never lose it again! DO YOU HEAR ME!"

Different people spouting different quests (that aren't determined by the people) would be really cool.

[Mizantrop]

One of the things I never got in the Diablo world is the monster/human ratio. D1 was ok. you had a little town with 6(?) people because all the rest are dead or ran away. And then you have a the full package 16 levels of demons to kill before you get to the big boss. That make sense with the lore of the game, all the undeads are ex-humans from ages past and the demons are summoned by Diablo.
But in D2 it get confusing. In act 1 you start in a pathetic camp with barly 12 ppl in it, counting the none talking npcs. In the same time you have a gazillion corrupted rogues outside. Can the rogues really hold on for some much time in that power balance?
Act 2 is slightly better (atleast they have normal walls). But then again the city is so small and the armies of vipers/cats/scarabs are so vast. Can they really stay safe? The mummiesare also a problem lore-wise. Mummies are undead horadrim mages. How many mages did they have when all population on Sanctuary seems like maybe 1000 people.
I can't even start to complain about act 3 and it's used-to-be-paladins-zealots in thier used-to-be-a-good-neighborhood city of Kurast.
Act 5 is not much better when you have more people outside of town (50% of them in cages) fighting brainlessly 1 vs 5-14 demons when they can try to work together.

So to sum up my rant, YES I do want to see busier towns with more npcs to chat with and trade with. I wan to feel like I am fighting for the people of Sancuary and not for the Epeen value of my items.

[mince pies]

I think the reason why it was like this the last time was because Hell had a pretty strong foothold on Sanctuary (Diablo in Tristram in DI and the three Prime Evils in DII) so considering this is twenty years after the events in DII, I expect things will have more of a social feel

But in D2 it get confusing. In act 1 you start in a pathetic camp with barly 12 ppl in it, counting the none talking npcs. In the same time you have a gazillion corrupted rogues outside. Can the rogues really hold on for some much time in that power balance?
Act 2 is slightly better (atleast they have normal walls). But then again the city is so small and the armies of vipers/cats/scarabs are so vast. Can they really stay safe? The mummiesare also a problem lore-wise. Mummies are undead horadrim mages. How many mages did they have when all population on Sanctuary seems like maybe 1000 people.
I can't even start to complain about act 3 and it's used-to-be-paladins-zealots in thier used-to-be-a-good-neighborhood city of Kurast.


In Act I the Sisters of the Sightless Eye (whatever that is) watched over the camp. Act II the mercs guarded the town, hired by Jerhyn. Act III the Iron Wolves guard the town until you find the Gidbinn. Act IV is supposed to be Heaven also it has Tyrael in, so that's self-explanatory. Act V Nihlathak made a deal with Baal that he would give him the thing that would allow him to pass through Mount Arreat unhindered by the Ancients in exchange for the safety of Harrogath. Hope I helped :)

[rolandk10]

Random merchants would be interesting, but I fear that would simply end with.. merchant runs! Like MF but even worse as they're in town..

That could be solved by not spawning a random merchant until the game has bee running for a certain amonut of time or a certain amonut of monsters have been killed before this could randomly happen. If it took 25 minutes before the possibility came up, runs would be slowed down a bit.

[rolandk10]

I think that'd add a lot of replayability and make the town seem more diverse. I feel bad every time Charsi asks me to go get her hammer, because I look at her and think "Seriously, again? You forgot it again? I'm going to nail that hammer to your naive little face and you'll never lose it again! DO YOU HEAR ME!"



Kinda like when you watch Titannic, you keep thinking that maybe one of these times the captain will miss that iceburg but no. The hit it EVERY TIME! :)

[Artimedes]

I think the reason why it was like this the last time was because Hell had a pretty strong foothold on Sanctuary (Diablo in Tristram in DI and the three Prime Evils in DII) so considering this is twenty years after the events in DII, I expect things will have more of a social feel



In Act I the Sisters of the Sightless Eye (whatever that is) watched over the camp. Act II the mercs guarded the town, hired by Jerhyn. Act III the Iron Wolves guard the town until you find the Gidbinn. Act IV is supposed to be Heaven also it has Tyrael in, so that's self-explanatory. Act V Nihlathak made a deal with Baal that he would give him the thing that would allow him to pass through Mount Arreat unhindered by the Ancients in exchange for the safety of Harrogath. Hope I helped :)

His point isnt that there isnt a town population in the Diablo story, but that it isnt shown in the actual game. It just doesnt make sense that commerce and trade can go on as usual when there are only 10 people per town. There are about 3 rogue archers in the camp, Flavie, and what other rogue guards? Even in Act 5 when Harragoth is supposed to be at war you see a barbarian every 50-100 feet fighting ALONE in the bloody foothills and thats it. The game just makes it feel like the total world population is in the low thousands, which in turn makes the game feel very very small.

[Blascid]

I feel bad every time Charsi asks me to go get her hammer, because I look at her and think "Seriously, again? You forgot it again? I'm going to nail that hammer to your naive little face and you'll never lose it again! DO YOU HEAR ME!"


LOL! That's for sure in the top five funnest things I've ever read on these forums (been reading for about 6 years). Just great man, just great :-D.

[jamesisbest]

A like the idea of busier towns, more people doing things, and even randomizing some npc's and making rare merchants from time to time (maybe with odd items that could be slightly worse, same, or slightly better). I think Blizzard certainly is trying to make the cities and villages more realistic this time around. With several concept art drawings showing different villagers and their tasks I think they will have somewhat realistic towns this time around. Also from the concept art Caldeum looks huge. I think Orgrimmar(sp?) from WoW was a huge success for Blizzard in part because it felt like a city due to its vast size. I think they intend making several large cities like WoW to make you feel like you are in a real world with real people. I hope they go over-the-top a bit, it really adds to the feel of the game.

[MooCQ]

All the previous D's lacked any sense of immersive gameplay. I could seriously care less about mccain, sitting in that tristram box to rot. They had nice "for show" gameplay movies, but the lack of character, and no connection.. it was a loss. I hope the next game, changes dramatically, because what they had goin in D2 was a total embarrassment.

[worstnameever]

The OP and anyone that agrees with him obviously doesn't know the history of the Diablo universe, you are a SINGLE person sent to destroy the root of all evil.

[deadbeater]

I like for once a big big town. Like Liberty City big. Or at least Palm Brinks big.

[limitedwhole]

isolation is one of key feelings diablo 1 instilled in the players. this is what was lacking in d2. The graphics were shiny, rather than having a dark gloomy feel about them. The people numerous and living apparently happy ordinary lives amidst the coming of hell. I doubt they will keep with the original theme and expect large towns. LArge towns are nice in a certain sense because they allow for more immersive quest play. A good comprimise would be to use large towns, but where the people are ebing infected with evil and temptation from the coming of the three prmevils. Some sort of reputation system could be useful, isolating the character from segments of the town. Quests which involve not just seeking out bosses, but seeking out wise hermits or the ghosts of long dead mages in their tombs would be nice.

Another methd would be the generative town method. Each location the players start in a isolated, dark place full of horror and terror. As the they progress through the act, the town begins to return to normal, essentially (unlocking the town).

[limitedwhole]

An example of this would be say in act 2 in d2.

upon arriving in lut golen, ones arrives to hatred. Seeing eth heroes coming diablo prepared thw ay by sowing covetous and diesease amongst the town. Only Atma, seeing the truth will talk to the hero and seeks ihm. In semi wailing and lamenting tones she tells of a horror in the sewers, a minion of th dark one, who is poisoning the towns water supply. The PC goes to the mage to buy potions and portal scrolls on to have a curse cast upon him lowering his resistances by 20. The mage laughs in amocking tone and becomes possessed, becoming the mouthpiece of diablo. The hero low on supplies ventures in to the sewers and slays the horror. Upon returning the diseaese still ravages the townpeople, but drognan has come to his senses and lifts the curse. But his heroism has only made him many enemies and when he ventures of out town, JErhyns men ambush him (spawn) whenever he drops to below 50% health. etc.

[Artimedes]

The OP and anyone that agrees with him obviously doesn't know the history of the Diablo universe, you are a SINGLE person sent to destroy the root of all evil.

Well obviously not, as there are other people in the towns. Maybe the central person in the storyline but definitely not the only person in the universe. You dont find it weird that each town has like 5 people but they can somehow survive and carry on trade just like normal? Where do they get their food? Supplies? Medicine if they get sick? How do they hear about news from other towns? Theres no way the few people in the town could have had a successful enough harvest to have enough food to survive the entire time evil was still around. According to the game there has to still be some system of mass trade for anybody in that world to carry on, and you need many people for that to happen. And if each city only has around 5 people in it, what stops the demons from overrunning the town? I mean if they supposedly killed everybody else off why stop there?

[Lazarus II]

I would love something similar to the NPCs in Fallout 3 for example. When you're not interacting they go about their daily lives talking to eachother and doing stuff. As for towns being bigger I wouldn't necessarily say that would be a good thing. I think it would only irritate you in the long run having to run all over the place.

[Apocalypse]

I would love something similar to the NPCs in Fallout 3 for example. When you're not interacting they go about their daily lives talking to eachother and doing stuff. As for towns being bigger I wouldn't necessarily say that would be a good thing. I think it would only irritate you in the long run having to run all over the place.

i remember the devs talking about this before D2 released, said something like the npc's will not just be standing in a door way waiting for us to walk by. well D2 did not improve it very much, instead of standing in a door way they might walk 7 steps in a circle.

i do not see this changing in D3 as it is clear bliz is trying to make the game for everyone in mind so the last thing they want is for people to spam message boards with "where the hell did randomjerknpc go, i cant find him anywhere".

i thought the npc's in D1 were fine, it made sense to me actually (though if they moved a bit i would not have minded). if you thought the lord of terror or pretty much any bit of demon activity was going on in that town you would probably leave also. D2 should have had more random people walking around. the game does not need more people to talk to or whatever, it just needs more visable people to keep the realism. however that just makes more work for something that is purely visual and maybe thats not worth it to some?

[Lazarus II]

Maybe I was a little unclear. I probably was looking at the text. I don't want the actual important NPCs that you interact with to wander all over the place. But perhaps other townsfolk that you can't actually get anything useful from to go about their daily lives. They could be characters that just say hi or something other unimportant when you click on them. That would add a busier feel to the towns. :) I just want it to be lively and not so static!

[Apocalypse]

Maybe I was a little unclear. I probably was looking at the text. I don't want the actual important NPCs that you interact with to wander all over the place. But perhaps other townsfolk that you can't actually get anything useful from to go about their daily lives. They could be characters that just say hi or something other unimportant when you click on them. That would add a busier feel to the towns. :) I just want it to be lively and not so static!

100% agree, in D1 the empty feel made sense to me. D2 was ok with some parts like the rogue camp and possibly lut but act 3 never made sense to me. why would the entire town flee when the dark wanderer got there at the same time as the hero. that town should have had more people in it imo (unless i am missing so piece of lore). act 5 felt like the best act to me but that was cause all the stupid barbs were out fighting, felt more like an actual town.

so yeah i agree, i wanna see more going on in D3 towns, more people who are just there to make it actually feel like a town.

[Gigashadow]

I don't care about the towns, unless they start doing something different with them other than a "drop off" station.

[Artimedes]

Maybe I was a little unclear. I probably was looking at the text. I don't want the actual important NPCs that you interact with to wander all over the place. But perhaps other townsfolk that you can't actually get anything useful from to go about their daily lives. They could be characters that just say hi or something other unimportant when you click on them. That would add a busier feel to the towns. :) I just want it to be lively and not so static!

Yea thats more of what I meant also. The NPCs who sell stuff (merchants) cant be the only people living in the towns, that just makes them seem a bit unrealistic. Even if the townsfolk only said thinks like hi or gave little quest hints itd still make you feel like you were part of a bigger war vs evil than in the previous two games.
I think i read somewhere that elixirs that give buffs would be rare drops, so they could have a merchant come to a certain town maybe once a week or month that would sell elixirs at a fairly high cost, but you would be limited to one or two purchases at a time. This could help keep the economy in check also (I think i mentioned this somewhere before...)

[redrach]

100% agree, in D1 the empty feel made sense to me. D2 was ok with some parts like the rogue camp and possibly lut but act 3 never made sense to me. why would the entire town flee when the dark wanderer got there at the same time as the hero. that town should have had more people in it imo (unless i am missing so piece of lore).
Mephisto subverted most of the people of Kurast to his side. All the "Zealot"-type monsters you fight were once human. In fact, once you break the compelling orb, they stop fighting and try to run away from you.
The only ones unaffected were the people at the docks, who were protected from the curse by Hratli's enchantments.

[Hodl Pu]

I would like to see town guards actually fighting when a monster comes to close. Or even, a town getting attack once in a while, (nothing to overwhelming though, unless the Act is based on a huge battle.)

[phool]

I'm one of those players who counts the seconds and was frustrated by act 2 and 3's relatively sprawling towns. Tighter packed, the better, here. Hey, when you're doing 3k pindle runs, you really don't want an extra 8 seconds on your run. Put Hratli next to Ormus and start the char next to them on joining game and I'm ok... centralise the important stuff, spread the filler around for those who want it.

[Nimbostratus]

I'm one of those players who counts the seconds and was frustrated by act 2 and 3's relatively sprawling towns. Tighter packed, the better, here. Hey, when you're doing 3k pindle runs, you really don't want an extra 8 seconds on your run. Put Hratli next to Ormus and start the char next to them on joining game and I'm ok... centralise the important stuff, spread the filler around for those who want it.

I agree. Put the important stuff where the players can get to it easily, but add extras so the town looks like it has a population higher than five.