View Full Version : Infinite Hell Dungeon + Heaven Tower
As Discussed here:
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d3-general&t=323693&p=1
http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=676115&page=8
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13498
Quick summary (mine ideal ver based on other posters' ideas):
1) Infinite series (9999 lvl at least) of arena-style levels where mobs come at u actively (see opening barbarian scene for gameplay vid)
2) One set leading further into hell, one into heaven.
3) Mob difficulty scales up per level.
4) Waypoint every 10/50/x levels, if u TP out inbetween u start fom last wp.
5) Reduced xp&drop rates to avoid ppl doing 'inf dungeon runs' exclusively to anything else. You do this to get achievements, to compete for best pvm party build that can get past the most levels.
6) Can only initiate the run after last act on hell, via a mini-quest (or some other way that would cut down on botting)
If blizzard worried bout keeping it canon (e.g. not wanting deep lvl mobs be harder 2 take down than diablo), make this an official mod or something - like how Azure TD was to wc3
stillman
06-08-2008, 11:40
Anything to be an alternative to end game boss grinding is good imo.
However; I would remove number 4). I think there should be no WP or even tping out. My idea is that if you tp out, you can't go back in and you have to start at the very beginning with a new dungeon and work your way back up to where you were before (kind of like with killing the ancients). Why? Well because:
-If they can tp out and back, people would just hang around in the deepest part of the dungeon they can handle and remake games every five minutes and take their highest wp. This would not be very challenging. Also, the dungeon would get boring too soon. It would just be another tp fest exploit.
-If you know you can't return to town without ruining your progress, certain "survival" skills will become very useful in this dungeon. The best players will be those who can get to the deepest levels without relying on endless tps and potions.
-Better mood (feeling trapped and desperate). Imagine being 50 stories down in an endless dungeon and you know the pressure is on. If you tp out, you will have wasted some time making you a poorer player.
sicilian
06-08-2008, 16:23
Anything to be an alternative to end game boss grinding is good imo.
However; I would remove number 4). I think there should be no WP or even tping out. My idea is that if you tp out, you can't go back in and you have to start at the very beginning with a new dungeon and work your way back up to where you were before (kind of like with killing the ancients). Why? Well because:
-If they can tp out and back, people would just hang around in the deepest part of the dungeon they can handle and remake games every five minutes and take their highest wp. This would not be very challenging. Also, the dungeon would get boring too soon. It would just be another tp fest exploit.
-If you know you can't return to town without ruining your progress, certain "survival" skills will become very useful in this dungeon. The best players will be those who can get to the deepest levels without relying on endless tps and potions.
-Better mood (feeling trapped and desperate). Imagine being 50 stories down in an endless dungeon and you know the pressure is on. If you tp out, you will have wasted some time making you a poorer player.
I like it. That way you could add a significant reward at the end (or at a certain level if there is no "end"), and not have it be cheesy. Maybe a guaranteed unique (though it could always end up being a low level one, it would be random).
You could even randomize which level would drop the unique (anytime after level 100 for example), so people would really have to weigh, "It's 4:00am, but the big unique dropping monster could be coming any minute!"
:D
theBanger
06-08-2008, 21:28
Just another idea.
The infinite dungeon is Hell. Your mission is to simply kick as much *** as possible. This is not a mission for mere mortal warriors to try, only the greatest heroes attempt this task, conquerers of not only mortal flesh and blood, but champions over the prime evils themselves. Of coarse, once one excepts this task, there is no return, your eternity is set to battle Hell. Infinity. The only way to safely enter hell is through "The Sphere of Mental Chaos", which provokes insanity to such a degree that the forces of Hell cannot bend ones mind to it's will. No sensible, or compensable speech can be implored from whence then on, for the horrors of Hell are too much for even the protected minds to bear.
Just some actually intelligibility to what I just splurged.
First to make a statement on the heaven tower idea, I don't like it. Why would the champions of heaven turn to fight it? Doesn't make much sense from that POV. I'm not certain what the story in D3 involves, but I'm pretty sure you won't be fighting Tyreal.
Next, I don't think this area should be accessible to those who have not completed the game, through and through. So it would be best to start this area out at high levels. Maybe make each area alvl 99 or something.
Once you enter the portal there is no going back, if you die in hardcore, maybe the game can save your progress as some sort of account title, but thats it, as for softcore, that was your one chance and you blew it, you cannot remake the portal (*maybe you can join somebody else's.)
When in Hell you would suffer from a negative modifier that builds to a greater degree the further through you fight. Only the sphere of mental chaos (or whatever) prevents this, however, this gives a negative modifier in mortal world forcing you to make a choice, I like choices. Obviously this only effects softcore.
Any way just one more idea to throw in the pot.
I was actually thinking of taking it the other way.
The tower is something that your soul enters, but not your body. You can find all the crazy, wild, out-of-this-world items you want, but you can't bring them back (or maybe you can only bring one back by reaching some kind of milestone).
If you die, your soul gets shunted back to your body. You can enter again, but you start on the 1st floor.
I like the idea of heaven tower and hell pit. But thats because I think in D3 we're going to end up facing off against both the luminaries of heaven and the savages of hell.
I'd really like to see it work into some kind of trophy room. Something you can see (maybe let others see) in which you collect trophies from various levels. A trophy for reaching the bottom of the pit or the top of the tower. Trophies for finding special 'Tower Only' or 'Pit Only' items.
hostileeffect
08-08-2008, 07:43
It would be interesting to have eight barbarians hacking and slashing through a crowd of auto-respawning mobs, where you have to kill them faster than they spawn, in order to reach the next room of level.
I am indeed interested in an infinite level kind of thing, IIRC, Delta Force 2 had destructible trees and near-infinite levels. Keep in mind, I played DF2 on a P3/64MB/Voodoo2-32MB, computer which I still have right here, IIRC, 1998 compaq home PC. I also used this computer to play Diablo 2 but I don't think LoD Xpack would load on it.
With the limited graphics of Diablo 3 and modern computers, an infinite leveled dungeon would probably be pie to even the slowest of modern gaming computers.
big d maniac
25-01-2009, 02:38
Anything to be an alternative to end game boss grinding is good imo.
However; I would remove number 4). I think there should be no WP or even tping out. My idea is that if you tp out, you can't go back in and you have to start at the very beginning with a new dungeon and work your way back up to where you were before (kind of like with killing the ancients). Why? Well because:
-If they can tp out and back, people would just hang around in the deepest part of the dungeon they can handle and remake games every five minutes and take their highest wp. This would not be very challenging. Also, the dungeon would get boring too soon. It would just be another tp fest exploit.
-If you know you can't return to town without ruining your progress, certain "survival" skills will become very useful in this dungeon. The best players will be those who can get to the deepest levels without relying on endless tps and potions.
-Better mood (feeling trapped and desperate). Imagine being 50 stories down in an endless dungeon and you know the pressure is on. If you tp out, you will have wasted some time making you a poorer player.
this is one of the funnest sounding ideas i have ever heard bout never ending dungeons
the only things i have 2 say is that
1. along with the endless levels of mobs that get stronger each level of the area you choose (heaven or hell) you should have to fight a boss from the game with a higher xp rate (but not that much higher) kind of like uber tristram but with each higher level you should fight stronger bosses and with each level it should get closer to an END GAME boss
another cool idea that would be fun to do would be to expand on the available skill of enemys and bosses and when they get harder the skills that they can use get buffed as well.
2. each dungeon/level should have a mob of a cartain type or 2 of monsters and you start from the weakest and work up like (this is a d2 monster example) you start with fallen then on the 2nd dungeon/level you have to fight skeleton warriors/archers/mager with a random mix of these and a max # of types being 2 (and mabey putting a little option box with a player being able to specify what type of monsters to start out with and what difficulty to go from ex. norm nm or hell)
3. when you get so many levels down it'll give you MULTIPLES of buffed bosses and 4 RANDOM TYPES of monsters then at area depth lvl 1000 (or whatever impossible #) you can get a godly item/char buff or a have a chest that drops 3 runes (or whatever because of possible unknown balancing issues) that have a high chance of being the equivalent of high runes in d2
demasked
25-01-2009, 17:49
Awesome concept, this makes the game a lot more interesting and less likely to be boring after beating Diablo 3 a couple times.
Maybe you could start as the character in Heaven and you fight down the "tower" between heaven and hell in which the door to Hell has been breached. The further you go down, the more corrupted it looks (level one there are white walls/buildings and stuff, level 200 there are corpses everywhere, blood everywhere and black degrading walls/buildings. Also there could be NPC allies (that suck) but come along for the fun and fighting making more bloodshed and more corpse falling. Every level should look different.
I'd like there to be monsters/bosses that aren't seen in the normal Diablo 3 single player. Since this is an infinity leveled dungeon tower there can always be new monsters made and bosses to defeat.
Plus there should be a second stash where you can put the items from this dungeon, you shouldn't be able to use these items in normal D3 or multiplayer D3, this way you can get awesome weapons only used in the dungeon challenge and you can't "cheat" in normal D3.
And yea.. no waypoints or such stuff, you start back at level one but as you get higher levels you go much faster killing at a quicker rate than before, and with a party it will get even quicker. (For party there should be a 5 level difference in the party so no level 3 just comes along for shared exp... so lame in D2...)
Knight_Wolf
25-01-2009, 20:37
Here is my variation of the idea, i added few touches ( like having to collect 4 orbs on each floor to be able to move to the next .. which encourages team work without making it mandatory )
Hell Pit
1-Hell Pit is a sort of end game quest or mode that the player can take anytime by choosing it from the game main menu, it is unlocked after player finishes the game on Hell difficulty for 5 times.
2-Hell Pit is a sort of huge dungeon with a large number of floors ( up to 100 ) that goes deep into hell with random generated designs.
3-In Hell Pit player can find some very nice items, gold and gain lots of XP .. BUT .. if the player dies even once before reaching lv.100 all this is lost and he/she will be sent back to lv.1 with none of the items or XP, only thing player keeps is the gold he/she gained from the Hell Pit.
4-In Hell Pit team work is greatly encouraged since mobs respawn after being killed from indestructible portals around the floor ground all the time ( with a certain numbers cap to keep performance stable ),the real goal is not just to kill the endlessly spawning monsters but the main goal is to collect a group of orbs scattered in every floor randomly to be able to move to the next floor ( 4 orbs or more depending on the max number of players possible in a party ) and after collecting all orbs heading out to the gateway to the next floor until the bottom floor is reached where a hefty prize is waiting ( of course after you tear through an army of mobs to reach it ) .... so with a team of 4 each player could go to get one of the orbs by himself/herself to save time or all four could work hand in hand to get each orb faster .. it all depends on the team mentality .. still a single player can go collect all 4 orbs and proceed accordingly deeper into the dungeon/pit but it will take slightly more time than a team ( which is natural ) .. so having a team is not mandatory but makes things more fun and faster paced.
5-To prevent Hell Pit runs ( players skipping thought the dungeon using evasion techniques like teleport ) no bosses will found in it .. only random powerful versions of the typical monsters, so players who want to get XP and Items will have to fight all the way, those who skip floors will die very quickly and will be sent back to floor-1 with none of what they gained.
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Making a special mode like this ( which could be considered an extra variation to HC ) will give the game great longevity and will give the players a great and fresh challenge since the Hell Pit is generated randomly so are the monsters, items, and Orb locations in every floor, and because of the total randomization it won't be a problem to make up to 100 levels ( with a very unique item lying at the bottom of the Pit )
It will be challenging and fresh while also bashing abusers who want to get quick bucks out of it since it is required to fight constantly to gain XP, gold and items .. there will be no bosses to skip to and no possibility of quick runs ... this will mean only dedicated and skilled players will enter the Hell Pit hoping to reach Lv.100 without dying ( which could take up to 8 hours or more straight out ) which will equal lots of fun specially if the player forming the team are friends and good at team work .. and also besides the gold, items and XP there could be honor titles and torphies those who beat the Hell Pit get.
Personally i think ( and i'm sure many agree as well ) games with various extra and unlockable modes and challenges prove to be the most fun and always give something fresh to offer even after its SP and typical MP has been done to death.
obsoleteAUS
03-02-2009, 13:52
I like the idea, but I think you guys are being too extreme in some respects.
Having no waypoints/tp is just silly. Obviously you arn't thinking about the people who have to work/school or have other things that they have to do or families etc.
What about the player can choose to save at whatever level they are on, but they can only save once every 5 or 10 levels? That way someone who has to work dosn't have to stay up until 4am to try to get past level 50, or leave their computers running for days on end just to try to get to the end/loot etc.
Personally if I couldn't have some form of checkpoint then I wouldn't bother playing it.
Dying should send you back to level 1.
If you save at say level 34 and things start getting hard you can't go back into the normal D3 world and level up/get better gear and come back. If you leave then your back at level 1. (Like the ancients).
There should be a party-only dungeon (Accessible from as little as 2 players or a full party) and a solo dungeon. Otherwise things may get too hard to balance, or the solo players will never beable to travel as deep into the pits as they could in a party.
That last point is mainly if there is some reward for reaching the end. Sucks if you just play single player/solo and miss out on something because you don't get online.
Tp'ing should be limited to 1 Tp every 3 levels. (Lets people repair items with low-durability and stock up on potions) This would make the initial stages of the dungeon easier than if you couldn't go back at all, but later levels going back once every three levels for potions will only get you so far.
Doctor Salvador
04-02-2009, 01:31
I just thought it would be interesting if you had to start a new character in order to do the pit. It could make it very interesting, especially with the no TP rule. Instead of repairing your items, you have to wait until another sword or whatever drops. How many times would you love (or hate) to have a barbarian with a throwing knife and a wand bashing in fallens' skulls? This way it would be based off of skill and not just the godly items your one friend gave you.
Of course starting a character specifically to do a pit run might be kind of annoying.
I like the idea of an infinite heaven tower/hell pit. I see it as a way to distinguish yourself that goes beyond just the xp ladder. If you have progressively harder and harder levels everyone will be killed at some point but how far you get can be a badge of honor. One way in and no returning until you die. We already know there will be no depleting ammo stacks so if you also suspend durability loss (if there is going to be any in the game in the first place) there will be no "need" to TP out to mend. Have it only available to characters that have completed Hell difficulty and if they difficulty curve is steep enough no one will be able to go through 188 levels and be forced to spend 13 hours straight to do so.
I don't see this as a new cow level where you go to lvl up or item hunt. The idea of your spirit leaving your body and fighting is intriguing, this also makes it viable for HC. You go in with what you have and don't expect to get much out of it. No item drops to slow down the carnage, maybe just gold. What it would be is a test. A way to show others how powerful your build/equipment/play skill really is. People would split their time in the D3 world lvling and finding their gear and then seeing just what they can accomplish in the pit/tower.
I agree with obsolete that there should be two different versions, a single player version to show what you can do and also a party version.
I'm starting to theorize that Blizzard will have different "Game Modes". They would have the Regular Game, An endurance test like this, PvP instances, and maybe other challenges, like clearing an enemy fortress as fast as possible. I have mixed feelings about whether or not it would feel right. Thoughts?
Similar to Doctor Salvador's idea, I think starting over would work well. One way to do this is to make a "Hell Dungeon" version of the character that beat the game, starting them at level one, with basic armor/weapons, in the dungeon's entrance (Basically DiabloI without Tristram). Also, Items the character gets can be stored at certain intervals, and can be retrieved by the main character through some miniquest. Certain items could be unique to the dungeon, with rarer/better ones in deeper areas. The hell dungeon character could only give items to its normal mode counterpart. As the Character gets deeper,it could also unlock new titles for the original character/owner's account, for bragging rights.
I agree with obsolete that there should be two different versions, a single player version to show what you can do and also a party version.
The minions could get stronger/weaker based on how many are currently in the dungeon and only in the dungeon and not the whole game.Also only players who've previously got to the level your at may join the dungeon at your current level and only at the start of a level to prevent exploits.
The minions could get stronger/weaker based on how many are currently in the dungeon and only in the dungeon and not the whole game.Also only players who've previously got to the level your at may join the dungeon at your current level and only at the start of a level to prevent exploits.
Well I think of a system like this mainly being for bragging rights and ranking. That was my reason for having two separate accomplishment lists. Of course it can be the same dungeon with more/harder monsters for the multiplayer version as long as there is a singleplayer accomplishment list to say "this is what I can do on my own, not leeching off others."
There have been some really fun suggestions in this thread about exclusive items, a new character to level, quests, and many other things. However, I don't feel many of these would end up being good for the game as a whole. I don't want Blizzard spending the time and resources to essentially create two games instead of one. I also don't want to draw everyone out of the main Sanctuary lands to one small repetitive location (like the ever familiar "Cowz82" and similar games.) It really shouldn't be the best place to get xp, or the best place to find loot.
I see an infinite dungeon as a place to challenge yourself and prove yourself not a place to spend 85% of your game time.
I agree with not wanting another cow level to mindlessly farm. Perhaps the could make it one of their random quests/scripted events, it would be a fun distraction, even if they did randomly generated levels. Also the whole concept of a endless dungeon of demons and other beasts seems to match the devs design in D3(ridiculously powerful heroes fighting the hordes).
meh good idea but it will end up being the same...people will find a way to easy run it like they do now just to lvl....or...they will just think its to hard and painfull compared to the original and will just move on to another game...and it doesnt work for achievement also cause in diablo someone will find a way to solo it just like they did in D2 for chaos trist...and then you will just limit everyone else...
Diablo is not a teamplay game..im sorry but its not...its fun with more people in it...but turning it into a perma retardness like WoW is just asking to break the game and destroy the series
also there is the fact that they would need to design the encounter specificly...you do know that some monster can't pop in each place in diablo right?...and this kind of work could be used in better way to improve the replayability and make it fun for everyone instead of limiting stuff to just a selected few...Chaos trist was a good try but i would like to see something so that every class could actually do and enjoy accomplishing....im still proud of doing my epic bow before the quest went easy mode in WoW and im sure people that did it when it was hard were really proud also
and seriously i still play D2 so im sorry but its not boring...i agree that boss need more tactic and stuff but i dont agree with limiting people to some content like that...(and im a powergamer for crying out loud Chaos trist was for people like me)
I'd love a system like this - Some place where godly characters go to test "Invincible" builds - A place where people can boast "I got up to Lvl 37!", "I got up to Lvl 43! Ha! Pwned!", "Omg - 43!?!? Show me how???"
A place where you can actually die!
None of this "Game is made to be finishable" type of stuff - After soloing LoD on hell Difficulty with every character class (Yes, I play Diablo a lot :whistling:), you get a "Now what?" feeling... I want somewhere I can go that (By choice), I'll be pressured harder and harder, with stronger and stronger monsters, coming in larger and larger floods - To eventually reach a point that I can say "This is as far as I can get with this way of playing"!
Believe me - When you're running around SP with a Lvl 92 Zealot with the most ungodly items imaginable (Legit), and Bhaal Runs / Hell Cows become laughable (The ability to just stand there for up to 30 seconds, afk, without dying), you want a challenge!
I'm all for it :)
Knight_Wolf
09-02-2009, 13:39
meh good idea but it will end up being the same...people will find a way to easy run it like they do now just to lvl....or...they will just think its to hard and painfull compared to the original and will just move on to another game...and it doesnt work for achievement also cause in diablo someone will find a way to solo it just like they did in D2 for chaos trist...and then you will just limit everyone else...
There is no easy way to run a dungeon that is composed of so many floors (100 or even endless), knowing that if you quit or die you will be sent back to lv.1 .. this will encourage people to team up and have fun fighting their way down that dungeon, even single players with well built characters can challenge that dungeon on their own .. but you need to be very good at the game to survive so it will provide a fresh challenge for both teams of casual players and skilled loners too.
And like many suggested .. you lose everything you gained in there if you die (XP, items and maybe even gold) ... so it is not a good place for those who want to farm ... only those who want to have fun will enjoy that dungeon.
Diablo is not a teamplay game..im sorry but its not...its fun with more people in it...but turning it into a perma retardness like WoW is just asking to break the game and destroy the series
Sorry, but if you have been keeping up with the interveiws you would have noticed that Jay Willson said several times that D3 unlike D2 will emphasize on team play and co-op while also making sure every single class/character is a DPS class and can still fight on its own well enough.
It is all about making it way more fun as a team (fun but not an obligation)
Diablo was meant from the very beginning to be like that but the stupid PKers ruined that .. now things will be set right with Pking gone for good.
I'd love a system like this - Some place where godly characters go to test "Invincible" builds - A place where people can boast "I got up to Lvl 37!", "I got up to Lvl 43! Ha! Pwned!", "Omg - 43!?!? Show me how???"
A place where you can actually die!
Exactly :yes:
emphasize doesnt mean it will be...just like D2 emphasize teamplay but you still end up fighting to get the loot or people loot stealing and the like..sorry but Diablo is fast paced...and the solo part is what made it so popular...most hardcore gamer that stuck with it dont item hunt in team...just look how many solo game there is with password..this simple exemple show you how much people like diablo solo...im not saying they dont like to play in team either....but we play in team for something...want another exemple...you got tons of moron that fake rush making char go in hell that arent rdy and then get stuck having to go check on another char to get another Baal game to lvl till they are rdy...you call that teamplay?...in WoW you got retard that pay and still make tons of trouble...think a FREE game wont have that LOL rigghhhttt in your dream...go play D2 now and seriously if you really want to teamplay with someone that would backstab you for an HoZ or Soj then you will know what im talking about /wink wink :P...not that there is only jerk in gaming but 90% of the gamer can change into total retard in a matter of second...ive been a gamer for a LONG time and trust me most human always want more and they will do whatever to get it...we fool ourself thinking that humankind are good and all but seriously the stuff we can do just show how wierd and destructive we really are :P
The real problem im having with this idea Knight_Wolf is that its way to much work for nothing...Chaos trist got owned really fast and it was what blizz got out for the powergamer that wanted a challenge...so i doubt this would make it more fun since people would eventually find a build that could just breeze through the entire "challenge" on its own..and the "EPIC" feeling of it would seriously get boring fast...im not saying i dont want stuff that give us challenge FAR FROM THAT...but i doubt this idea will keep us busy for long for the huge work it require O_o
and the part about people thinking your UBER...i still see people tell my hammerdin how awesome and uber he is O_o..i doubt you will get it more with this if there is no reward in the end or no title
oh and i really dont think Pking is a problem in D2...seriously i think PvP in Diablo was always dumb as hell...seriously you dont have class that are balanced for Pvp and its just there to be there...also its not really a problem since he can't go after you until he find you...and even then...just use a tp or leave the game if you have no uber char...is that so hard?
not trying to be mean but i really think we could have better idea that require 10x less work and that would work like a major improvement on Chaos trist or Uber D and that would give us 10x more fun also no?
Knight_Wolf
12-02-2009, 21:59
emphasize doesnt mean it will be...just like D2 emphasize teamplay but you still end up fighting to get the loot or people loot stealing and the like
Sigh ... D2 was flawed .. Jay Willson already indicated that they plan to fix all the things that ruined team play in D2 .. oh ... and there will be NO loot stealing in D3 whatsoever.
..sorry but Diablo is fast paced
having 4 or more character bashing hordes of monsters together makes it even faster paced.
you call that teamplay?...in WoW you got retard that pay and still make tons of trouble...think a FREE game wont have that LOL rigghhhttt in your dream...go play D2 now and seriously if you really want to teamplay with someone that would backstab you for an HoZ or Soj then you will know what im talking about /wink wink :P
God, already forget about D2 .. D2 is gone ... D3 won't have Player killing or back stabbing .. sigh
...not that there is only jerk in gaming but 90% of the gamer can change into total retard in a matter of second...ive been a gamer for a LONG time and trust me most human always want more and they will do whatever to get it...we fool ourself thinking that humankind are good and all but seriously the stuff we can do just show how wierd and destructive we really are :P
That's exactly why the devs won't let everyone run rampage and do as they please ruining other's play time.
and the part about people thinking your UBER...i still see people tell my hammerdin how awesome and uber he is O_o..i doubt you will get it more with this if there is no reward in the end or no title
Single skill builds like in D2 won't be possible in D3, they are making the class skills with the idea that you need to have at least 5 or 6 skills as the pillar of your character build.
oh and i really dont think Pking is a problem in D2...seriously i think PvP in Diablo was always dumb as hell...seriously you dont have class that are balanced for Pvp and its just there to be there...also its not really a problem since he can't go after you until he find you...and even then...just use a tp or leave the game if you have no uber char...is that so hard?
It's not hard as much as it is a stupid annoyance that is not needed .. if some mechanic ruins the play time of many people then its place is the garbage bin.
not trying to be mean but i really think we could have better idea that require 10x less work and that would work like a major improvement on Chaos trist or Uber D and that would give us 10x more fun also no?
No you are not being mean or anything .. but from you comment i can see that you are still entrenched deeply in the mindset of D2 and expect D3 to be some sort of expansion to D2 or D2.5 .. it won't be .. it is a whole new game .. just like D2 was to D1.
Srikandi
17-02-2009, 07:03
Diablo I was inspired largely by Nethack... and Nethack was based on Rogue... an early ASCII-graphics Unix game that I used to enjoy back in the late seventies :)
And Rogue was an infinite, random dungeon. I've always loved that concept :)
So, yeah, I'm for it. Make it single-player friendly though, not a group-only thing. And put in rare random surprises... mini-bosses of course, but also shops, shrines, special level types to keep things lively and somewhat unpredictable.
I like the idea of having a heaven-based anti-dungeon too. I've spent far too much of my gaming life in levels featuring lava ;) Graphically you could do some much more original things with Heaven.
well actually D1 to D2 WAS a upgrade...and not a total new game..but i know what you mean...alots of stuff changed..but still it stay Diablo there is stuff that stay the same...most are just the mechanic of some stuff in D changing
also in game ive found that people tend to abuse the power their given and find alots of way to grief other player in some way ruining their pleasure...i seriously dont get that most are kid...i hope...i had a friend when i was younger that sucked in gaming and basicly he just did that kind of stuff and had fun by ruinning the fun of other...ive never been for that and never will be...its already a pain having to play with human that are greedy as hell and have no honor at all so griefing just add to the destruction of your experience...just for exemple people that say they are rushing you throught hell and leave you there...seriously people dont follow them unless they are rushing a friend else its a scam...even then be sure you got a high char that can clear or rush you throught hell if you try that(personaly this happened to me once...and never will ever again :P)
i agree that Diablo PvP was always useless and mostly people wanting to grief other...there is almost no balance in D2 for class vs class combat anyway and it would be a HUGE task to balance it for both and it would probly end up being people griefing other and just a few that would actually PvP for real...and seriously ive never had any problem with PvP....how the hell did you get you're playtime ruined by it Knight_wolf?
as for the part of using 5 or 6 skill this as yet to be proved(what if what they are talking about would be combined with passive)...the char in the vid weve seen were cheated to show us the most...if you've played TQ you would know that using that many skill in a fast paced game can end up very badly making it not diverse but actually breaking alots of the fun factor...why would the barb need that many AoE instead of trying to get stomp and leap and other skill that will actually make him more versatile....thats also a huge possibility...since i doubt you will use different skill more then you used in D2 at the same time....you will probly have a spam spell and some that are just occasional one just like D2...in hell i use tele,static and dmg +AoE dmg some time on a sorc...sooo...yeah will probly be that + spell or skill like slow time and such utility spell to cast from time to time for some hard archer part and the like
i know there is no loot stealing in D3 cause we have all our own loot that drop for each char in the game but it was just a way to show that people will find way to destroy the gameplay of other because of greed...and D2 wasnt FLAWED...it had its bad mechanic just like any other game...not alots imo compared to game that come out these day with only graphic and no more fun...the worst is people are actually stupid enought to pay for that kind fo crap...hell D2 is less repetitive then most game that come out these day and people are still think D2 is just click,click,click,click....did they even play it...and i dont mean put the disk,install,play for 1hr and say it suck and its repetitive i mean really play it like most of us did
also the 100 lvl thingy seem like FF type of stuff and like i said you need to build the actual encounter and not randomize it so people have equal chance of getting to the top/bottom of it...i like duran idea ALOTS more then this about the siege kind of thing were you have to defend a place from the invading army
also in the early interview when D3 wasnt "official"(like not even 1 year ago...so probly not a rumor since they were in the progress of already making it) they said they would make it that you fight in heaven and then in hell with awesome architecture and glowy thingy :P...so i say it would be the last act or the act before the last act....but just speculating on that they maybe changed their plan to keep this for the exp
oh and i really dont get how you would know that there will not be any backstabbing...and so far there isnt any word on pvp....i really dont get how you can talk about stuff they didint even discuss or stuff that you wont have a clue until someone does it to you...human find way to destroy the fun of other...its a fact in Online game...they will probly always find way to ruin other fun...wether its for their own amusement or pure greed or vengance/hatred....i doubt you can know that it wont happen when the game isnt out yiet...D1 had griefer,D2 had them and guess what D3 will have them...the thing im worried about is how far can they go this time in D3
also Knight_Wolf do you hate D2?....you seem to be pissed off by it in every thread O_o...most of the time people mean that D3 stay Diablo and D2 in some way...they wont remake a totally new game you know it stay Diablo like i said...mostly so far they are fixing the bad side of D2 and improving others for now
Knight_Wolf
17-02-2009, 17:26
well actually D1 to D2 WAS a upgrade...and not a total new game..but i know what you mean...alots of stuff changed..but still it stay Diablo there is stuff that stay the same...most are just the mechanic of some stuff in D changing
No it is a total new game .. more than 40% of the game systems and structure got changed and revoked .. which is exactly what's happening to D3 now .. you just can't see it cause you played D2 too much and got your "Elite" head stuck in it.
and seriously ive never had any problem with PvP....how the hell did you get you're playtime ruined by it Knight_wolf?
Hmmmm ... look at what you will say few passages below .. you answer yourself really :crazyeyes:
also in game ive found that people tend to abuse the power their given and find alots of way to grief other player in some way ruining their pleasure...i seriously dont get that most are kid...i hope...i had a friend when i was younger that sucked in gaming and basicly he just did that kind of stuff and had fun by ruinning the fun of other...ive never been for that and never will be...its already a pain having to play with human that are greedy as hell and have no honor at all so griefing just add to the destruction of your experience...just for exemple people that say they are rushing you throught hell and leave you there...seriously people dont follow them unless they are rushing a friend else its a scam...even then be sure you got a high char that can clear or rush you throught hell if you try that(personaly this happened to me once...and never will ever again :P)
i agree that Diablo PvP was always useless and mostly people wanting to grief other...there is almost no balance in D2 for class vs class combat anyway and it would be a HUGE task to balance it for both and it would probly end up being people griefing other and just a few that would actually PvP for real
That pretty much answers you question above ... and that's why many changes are being made to D3 to insure it's party action and PvP are PLAYABLE.
as for the part of using 5 or 6 skill this as yet to be proved(what if what they are talking about would be combined with passive)
You sound like you never saw a single gameplay video .. in all seriousness ... it is very obiious that the 6 skills i mentioned are the 6 skills you have on your quick-belt (1,2,3,4 and two mouse buttons) .. passives are out of this equation ... they do play a role in character builds but active skills are the main foundation for builds.
the char in the vid weve seen were cheated to show us the most...if you've played TQ you would know that using that many skill in a fast paced game can end up very badly making it not diverse but actually breaking alots of the fun factor.
The gameplay videos looked pretty much fun to me .. and cheating to get some extra mana doesn't mean the the gameplay won't be very similar to what we saw .. one possible build for the WD can very well be using 5 or 6 skills all the time (zombie dogs - locust+zombie dogs - skull of fire+zombie dogs - zombie wall - soul harvest ) can all be used in various ways and combinations.
Also what you are saying is down right illogical .. how can be spamming one or two skills is fun and diverse while using 5 or 6 skills strategically is not fun or diverse ... sigh ... using one or two skills and spamming them is "more diverse" !!!! .. did you even proof read what you wrote !!? :crazyeyes:
i know there is no loot stealing in D3 cause we have all our own loot that drop for each char in the game but it was just a way to show that people will find way to destroy the gameplay of other because of greed
Very weird excuse ... if people will find a way to destroy gameplay anyway .. then we should make sure they get LESS CHANCES at doing so ... it's common sense.
...and D2 wasnt FLAWED...it had its bad mechanic just like any other game...not alots imo compared to game that come out these day with only graphic and no more fun...the worst is people are actually stupid enought to pay for that kind fo crap...hell D2 is less repetitive then most game that come out these day and people are still think D2 is just click,click,click,click....did they even play it...and i dont mean put the disk,install,play for 1hr and say it suck and its repetitive i mean really play it like most of us did
D2 was flawed like many other games of its time .. it was better than them but still has its share of flaws ... denying that only shows how much your head is stuck deep in the D2 bucket.
And yes it gets repetitive after playing it for a couple of times, people keep playing it for other reasons different from it being non-repetitive ... usually doing REPETITIVE BAAL RUNS to get some stupidly rare item they want to use to exploit the game or annoy other players trying to level up ... those obviously suffered from e-peen problems .... few other hardcore players fought over ladder positions also .... but all those are the "l337" minority (out of 8 millions who bought D2 only few thousands did this) ... other normal players got their share of fun but eventually got tired, bored, uninstalled the game and moved on to other games until they felt like playing D2 again sometime later.
also Knight_Wolf do you hate D2?....you seem to be pissed off by it in every thread O_o...most of the time people mean that D3 stay Diablo and D2 in some way...they wont remake a totally new game you know it stay Diablo like i said...mostly so far they are fixing the bad side of D2 and improving others for now
I don't hate D2, i can only see its flaws objectively like the Devs do (cause that's the first thing anyone must look for when making a sequel .. FIX ALL THE PROBLEMS OF THE PREVIOUS GAME) .... so i get very annoyed seeing people still stuck in their D2 fantasies and mindset and want to force it on everyone else ... the same goes for SC2 too.
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also the 100 lvl thingy seem like FF type of stuff and like i said you need to build the actual encounter and not randomize it so people have equal chance of getting to the top/bottom of it...i like duran idea ALOTS more then this about the siege kind of thing were you have to defend a place from the invading army
Ahm ... back on topic ... the dungeon doesn't have to be designed to be fair at all .... quite the contrary ... being random (chaotic) will ensure no one will be able to design a character/build that can specifically beat that dungeon .. if the that dungeon was pre-designed it will be infested with runners using "dungeon-defeating-cookie-cutter-builds" in no time .... and that's not the point of this idea at all .. it has to be largely chaotic and unpredictable.
Diablo I was inspired largely by Nethack... and Nethack was based on Rogue... an early ASCII-graphics Unix game that I used to enjoy back in the late seventies
And Rogue was an infinite, random dungeon. I've always loved that concept
So, yeah, I'm for it. Make it single-player friendly though, not a group-only thing. And put in rare random surprises... mini-bosses of course, but also shops, shrines, special level types to keep things lively and somewhat unpredictable.
I like that :thumbup:
Sedmeriah
22-02-2009, 21:00
Aren't the random dungeons as they are in Diablo essentially infinite because the monsters come back in a new game? Can someone explain how this is better than that? I'm not trying to be hard here - I think it's a neat idea, I just want to understand how it contributes something more to the game.
Edit: Maybe it's a mini-game, and somewhere others can look to see the farthest level you've reached?
Knight_Wolf
22-02-2009, 22:39
Edit: Maybe it's a mini-game, and somewhere others can look to see the farthest level you've reached?
Exactly :thumbup:
No! Knight_Wolf! You've been infected by Psycho! you replaced all your punctuation with Ellipses!
Sedmeriah, it sounds like you've never played multiplayer. In Battle.net, not only do the monsters reset, but the layout of the whole dungeon as well. That's how it's going to be in D3.
Knight_Wolf
27-02-2009, 07:24
No! Knight_Wolf! You've been infected by Psycho! you replaced all your punctuation with Ellipses!
lols, actually it's bad habit i have been trying to get rid of .... but ... old ... habits .. die .. hard :crazyeyes:
knightmawko
15-04-2009, 06:54
its a good concept, kinda like the Battle Square in FF7 but different. I would say something more like a WP spawns whenever you die so you can pick it up where you put it down you know what I mean? I wouldnt say drop the xp and items drop, I mean thats the only reason I would do it is to get good items. Maybe drop the xp, but not the item drops because if they get hard enough (especially sense it will be in Hell difficutly anyway) then you wouldnt have to worry about people easily gettting good items by running it a thousand times.
I like the idea, i think Wps should be like every 20 levels or something but no tps for sure. people can just tp into safe zone when their gonna die. and if u leave the game and come back in u start back at level one.
raveharu
18-04-2009, 12:24
Hell dungeon and heaven tower, sounds kinda corny and too predictable :whistling:
But I like the idea of an area where not everyone, and only a minority of the players will be able to survive.
I'm not sure if this should be integrated as part of the game, as Bashiok once said the game will get terribly harder as one progresses, but in one way or another it would definitely appear.
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