So who is the archer class then??

[stillman]

I think it would be Diablocide to not have an expet bow user in the game. But who? Blizzard says there won't be any more returning heros, so the rogue is out. The zon is out.

So that leaves...??

Thief (rogue archtype spinoff)
Ranger (Robin Hood-like good guy/gal type)
Archer (battlefield type, pure bow user w/ some melee)
Sentinel (like a wall or tower gaurd)
Enchanter/Enchantress (Some kind of bow mage with lots of magic elemental arrow skills, some mind control spells)
Druid (redone as wilderness bow user, uses animals too)
Hunter (a tribal, part trapper)
Caveman/Cavewoman (more primitive than barb, more stealth)

The bow user will have some very big shoes to fill.

Any ideas?

[Felis]

Somewhere else (http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?p=6703217#post6703217) I mentioned a Ranger class with some nature magic added. Half way between your Ranger and redone Druid.
I know, everywhere else it's called "Wood Elf" ;) but we know perfectly well that there are no elves in Sanctuary.
Nevertheless it's an archetype that hasn't been tackled by the Diablo franchise yet and it would be interesting to play.
...And it would look just adorable in green tunic and tights :grin:

Bowman-Enchanter sounds equally (or even more) interesting. I don't think anyone suggested that yet (if I'm wrong I apologize in advance). Knowing Blizzard it's actually original enough to be a pretty good bet for one of the remaining classes.

[lozarian]

Legolas. ftw. Sorry, had to be said.

[Felis]

Legolas. ftw. Sorry, had to be said.

Could you elaborate on this? Something more constructive perhaps?

I could easily say "Conan? [insert some lame acronym here] !!"
Everything was already thought of by someone else before. It doesn't make it stupid or unoriginal. The trick is to expand on a basic concept.

I hope I don't waste my breath on you...

[konfeta]

Everything was already thought of by someone else before. It doesn't make it stupid or unoriginal.

Somewhere else I mentioned a Ranger class with some nature magic added.

No offense, but an archer with ties to hunting/nature has been done to death more than space marines in FPS games or World War 2 based games. Seriously, it's the penultimate example of lacking imagination. A quick listing of major fantasy based games...

Titan Quest, Guild Wars, DnD, LotR, Sacred, WoW, Everquest, Nox, Disciples, HoMM, Christ; I could go forever.

I genuinely pray that Blizzard has enough imagination not to fall back on the most generic and cliche archer archetype in history of fantasy games. No, I don't even want to see their "take" or "spin" on it. There are probably hundreds of different and creative ways by which an archer archetype can be introduced for the third game, all of which are relatively fresh, don't blatantly try to be "Wood Elves," and don't lend themselves to the plague of Legolassery.

[Felis]

No offense, but an archer with ties to hunting/nature has been done to death more than space marines in FPS games or World War 2 based games. Seriously, it's the penultimate example of lacking imagination. A quick listing of major fantasy based games...

Titan Quest, Guild Wars, DnD, LotR, Sacred, WoW, Everquest, Nox, Disciples, HoMM, Christ; I could go forever.

I genuinely pray that Blizzard has enough imagination not to fall back on the most generic and cliche archer archetype in history of fantasy games. No, I don't even want to see their "take" or "spin" on it. There are probably hundreds of different and creative ways by which an archer archetype can be introduced for the third game, all of which are relatively fresh, don't blatantly try to be "Wood Elves," and don't lend themselves to the plague of Legolassery.

Just for the sake of argument: Which is more generic character class?
Ranger in green jacket, big guy in furs with battleaxe or black clad ninja with big shuriken (pardon, Blade Sentinel) and Tiger Strike/ Dragon Talon combo?

I know the Ranger archetype was used everywhere (I blame it on Tolkien ;) ). All I'm saying is we didn't had one in Diablo yet.

And I agree that there are probably hundreds of different archer archetypes.

Name three.
Or even one and write why it might be good.
This is what this thread is about. Different people, different ideas.
Stillman started it with some good and one (imho) great idea. I had my spin.
Now it's your turn.

Oh, and no offense was taken. :) I would just like to read something besides plain old "I don't like it/ I disagree".

[konfeta]

The ranger. There is enough variety among the melee fighters in fiction which make a barbarian far less cliched than a ranger; and the assassin in LoD was quite far from the stereotypical ninja (dropping meteors from sky, extensive use magic and magical devices, use of African weapons).

A elemental archer. Even though it is fairly often used and is often tied to the whole "elves" thing, it lends itself to a lot more imaginative abilities and a wide range of potential play styles. An archer that uses his bow for spell delivery while utilizing a variety of battle field control spells sounds like hell of a lot more fun than the old "wood elf and his pet/tank wolf."

An engineer archer. Constructs, traps, grenades. Most of the time this kind of stuff is reserved for gun users; but why not have an archer who is reliant on this? Puts a lot of LoD's assassin's concepts to good use without bringing back the class.

Sorceror archer. Different from an "elemental" archer as it would use magic to complement it's bow abilities, not use the bow as a delivery system. Teleportation, invisible effects, illusions, speed boosts, slows, curses, minor arrow enchancements.

Assassin archer. Poison effects galore. Anatomy based shots. Elements of stealth combat and mobility.

"Weaponmaster" archer. What about pure martial archetype of a character? Differentiate thrown weapons, bows, and crossbows enough to make them effective at different situations; and build it up from there.

Hybridize any of these (and other concepts) with something else. A holy archer, whatever, etc. Just, please, no need for yet another generic ranger class? A lot of these concepts are used often, but compared to "go eat them pet while I superskillfully shoot arrows down their left nostrils!" they might as well be non-existant.

[stillman]

I seem to really like archers. There's just something intimate about being the delicate female bow user from Diablo 1...
who is full of finery
and masters the way of the bow
the delicae and deadly curves of the bow
the darting eyes
the still pose of the concentrating--uh, where was I?

So one of the purposes of the enchantress/enchanter was to have a versatile 3-tree spell/skill user like the zon based on some of the synonyms of enchntress: seductress, charmer.

seductress: some of her arrow enchant spells have a curse effect like confuse only more effective since it only affects the one target it hits at a time. So whoever gets hit with an arrow is converted (falls in love with the enchantress) and fights on your side wtih some extra rage and passion. Think of it like Cupid's arrow. The problem is, you already hurt them a bit but of course you can minimize the physical damage of each arrow. You can also give verbal commands to a monster and they'll do as you say! Stupid drooling demons. She can have a paladin-like "slow" or "dools" aura where undead (who were once living people) regain a spark of their former human selves and fight the urge to kill a beautiful enchantress, so they force themselves to walk/run towards you slower. If you max this out undead can become nearly paralyzed or lovestuck by sheer beauty.

charmer: The enchantress is a very beutiful wonman (or man I guess, if enchanter). You can play her as a singer/cryer based on the d2 cry barb, only she'll have more skills. One is a "scream" skill. The scream of beautiful woman can have different effects on enemies depending on what skill you use. It can "morally stun" monsters and make them fall to their knees as they recall every bad thing they've ever done, or make their heads vibrate and explode. The range of her scream can spread out like a supernova across the land, damaging things a bit less as the sound waves propagate outward. Her loud screams can "deafen" monsters making any monster that uses magic do so less effectively (fumble their spells) since they can't hear thier spells.

She can also have some "nymph" type of abilites (from D&D) like blinding monsters with her beauty. She'll also have some sort of cold effect like "icy glare" because some pretty women are just plain mean and cold.

The enchantress likes to wear sleek shiny chainmail and she has a lot of golden jewelry. One of her inate abilities (like dual wield for barb, sin opens locked chests) is her ability to wear more than 2 rings OR more than one ammy. She has class-specific amulets that only she can wear and unlike typical ammys, they give her some defense because they are huge golden things that go around her neck and over the chest. Bracelets too. The male enchanter should look all decked out in gold jewelry like the "god" king form the movie 300.

The point is to use beauty as a weapon. I think it would be fun to add more "sexy", "beauty", "grace" or "charm" to your character. Maybe one of these can actually be a stat or all of them can be part of a passive skill tree. Girl players would love this...

[konfeta]

Hmmm.. That would be hilarious with the male version.

"Why helloooo there my faboulous little demons and demonettes. I am going to dazzle you with my sexay body! Would you like to taste some of that arrow? It's super-duper enchanted if you know what I mean, baby!"

[pantherus]

I seem to really like archers. There's just something intimate about being the delicate female bow user from Diablo 1...
who is full of finery
and masters the way of the bow
the delicae and deadly curves of the bow
the darting eyes
the still pose of the concentrating--uh, where was I?

So one of the purposes of the enchantress/enchanter was to have a versatile 3-tree spell/skill user like the zon based on some of the synonyms of enchntress: seductress, charmer.

seductress: some of her arrow enchant spells have a curse effect like confuse only more effective since it only affects the one target it hits at a time. So whoever gets hit with an arrow is converted (falls in love with the enchantress) and fights on your side wtih some extra rage and passion. Think of it like Cupid's arrow. The problem is, you already hurt them a bit but of course you can minimize the physical damage of each arrow. You can also give verbal commands to a monster and they'll do as you say! Stupid drooling demons. She can have a paladin-like "slow" or "dools" aura where undead (who were once living people) regain a spark of their former human selves and fight the urge to kill a beautiful enchantress, so they force themselves to walk/run towards you slower. If you max this out undead can become nearly paralyzed or lovestuck by sheer beauty.

charmer: The enchantress is a very beutiful wonman (or man I guess, if enchanter). You can play her as a singer/cryer based on the d2 cry barb, only she'll have more skills. One is a "scream" skill. The scream of beautiful woman can have different effects on enemies depending on what skill you use. It can "morally stun" monsters and make them fall to their knees as they recall every bad thing they've ever done, or make their heads vibrate and explode. The range of her scream can spread out like a supernova across the land, damaging things a bit less as the sound waves propagate outward. Her loud screams can "deafen" monsters making any monster that uses magic do so less effectively (fumble their spells) since they can't hear thier spells.

She can also have some "nymph" type of abilites (from D&D) like blinding monsters with her beauty. She'll also have some sort of cold effect like "icy glare" because some pretty women are just plain mean and cold.

The enchantress likes to wear sleek shiny chainmail and she has a lot of golden jewelry. One of her inate abilities (like dual wield for barb, sin opens locked chests) is her ability to wear more than 2 rings OR more than one ammy. She has class-specific amulets that only she can wear and unlike typical ammys, they give her some defense because they are huge golden things that go around her neck and over the chest. Bracelets too. The male enchanter should look all decked out in gold jewelry like the "god" king form the movie 300.

The point is to use beauty as a weapon. I think it would be fun to add more "sexy", "beauty", "grace" or "charm" to your character. Maybe one of these can actually be a stat or all of them can be part of a passive skill tree. Girl players would love this...

While there are some pretty funky ideas there - I have 2 primary issues with the general theme.

1. It's WAY too DnD-ish. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of DnD, but what you've outlined above is basically the Bard - with a bit of prestige class uberness thrown in :)

2. (and this is the key one) - It's all based around a FEMALE character...most of it just wouldn't work with a male variant. And there's the clincher....

[Swordslash]

Thief (rogue archtype spinoff)
Ranger (Robin Hood-like good guy/gal type)
Archer (battlefield type, pure bow user w/ some melee)
Sentinel (like a wall or tower gaurd)
Enchanter/Enchantress (Some kind of bow mage with lots of magic elemental arrow skills, some mind control spells)
Druid (redone as wilderness bow user, uses animals too)
Hunter (a tribal, part trapper)
Caveman/Cavewoman (more primitive than barb, more stealth)

I'm satisfied with knowing the primary archetypes that will exist (by basic deduction) but I'll try to pare down your list for the bow-user:

- Thief: too basic, I'd say very unlikely
- Archer: same
- Enchantress: Doesn't sound like a bow-primary, also a Diablo 2 build = no
- Druid: That's a Diablo 2 character regardless of the spin you want them to put on it = no
- Hunter: Primary character in Titan Quest, they won't directly steal any of those, so no
- Cavewhatever: Barbarian is enough of a neanderthal, we won't need another one

That leaves Ranger and Sentinel from your list. Ranger is boring but possible. Sentinel sounds more interesting. I hope they can come up with some better ideas that most of us wouldn't think of, though.

[Felis]

@ konfeta

Ok, I yield, I yield :)
Clearly your imagination is better then mine.

Thank you.
That was exactly what I was waiting for.

I especially like a Weaponmaster concept since I'm a little bit of an archer in real life and "Thorgal" is one of my favourite comic series :)
Although I'm afraid that this character type might be "to plain" for Diablo developers (they like to push the envelope a great deal :) ).
Elemental Archer sounds very promising. If they went in this direction and gave him/her all three elemental "trees" (and maybe an arcane damage as well) they could even afford to skip the sorcerer-type class altogether.

[ThulRasha]

The bow user will have some very big shoes to fill.


It will be bigfoot, with a bow.

[stillman]

Pantherus, the enchanter (male) would look like the god king from the movie 300. But you don't have to play him as a charmer. He can be just a shooter using some elemental bowskills and ignore the charm tree.

When d2 came out, I thought the barb was the cheesiest chr of all time. I don't think Blizzard will cross out any idea just because it's overused. I mean, there's the very famous Conan the Barbarian movies, a ton of modern spin-offs like Kull the Conqueror, the Frank Fanzetta artwork that was very inspirational, barbarian tribe meat getting killed in every swordfighter war movie ever made, and who knows how many games that have barb type of characters. Knowing Blizzard, they'll chose the male and female Robin Hood right down to the green tights.

Har har, lets hope for the best, something a little different.

[Arbedark]

The ranger. There is enough variety among the melee fighters in fiction which make a barbarian far less cliched than a ranger; and the assassin in LoD was quite far from the stereotypical ninja (dropping meteors from sky, extensive use magic and magical devices, use of African weapons).

A elemental archer. Even though it is fairly often used and is often tied to the whole "elves" thing, it lends itself to a lot more imaginative abilities and a wide range of potential play styles. An archer that uses his bow for spell delivery while utilizing a variety of battle field control spells sounds like hell of a lot more fun than the old "wood elf and his pet/tank wolf."

An engineer archer. Constructs, traps, grenades. Most of the time this kind of stuff is reserved for gun users; but why not have an archer who is reliant on this? Puts a lot of LoD's assassin's concepts to good use without bringing back the class.

Sorceror archer. Different from an "elemental" archer as it would use magic to complement it's bow abilities, not use the bow as a delivery system. Teleportation, invisible effects, illusions, speed boosts, slows, curses, minor arrow enchancements.

Assassin archer. Poison effects galore. Anatomy based shots. Elements of stealth combat and mobility.

"Weaponmaster" archer. What about pure martial archetype of a character? Differentiate thrown weapons, bows, and crossbows enough to make them effective at different situations; and build it up from there.

Hybridize any of these (and other concepts) with something else. A holy archer, whatever, etc. Just, please, no need for yet another generic ranger class? A lot of these concepts are used often, but compared to "go eat them pet while I superskillfully shoot arrows down their left nostrils!" they might as well be non-existant.

Engineer Archer / Alchemist for the win!

Use of traps, throwing explosives etc, along with bows / crossbows = pure secks.

If such a class is implemented I can guarantee that it would be my first class to play through, and probably my second, third, fourth and maybe even fifth!

[ThulRasha]

I sure hope that Blizzard will not suddenly retcon engineering into the diablo world.

[Arbedark]

I sure hope that Blizzard will not suddenly retcon engineering into the diablo world.

You mean like, crossbows added in D2...exploding potions added...an oriental themed island on the Map which, if related to our world would have gunpowder and fireworks at the era Diablo would be set, and Larzuks idea about how to make cannons?

Not forgetting The entire Traps skill tree:

Sentries, Fire Blast...

[ThulRasha]

Nope, thats not what I mean. Gunpowder doesn't bother me. Note that I said engineers and not alchemists.

[Arbedark]

Nope, thats not what I mean. Gunpowder doesn't bother me. Note that I said engineers and not alchemists.

And stuff like the invention of Crossbows, Sentries etc doesn't come under engineering in your definition?

Engineering is the discipline and profession of applying technical and scientific knowledge and utilizing natural laws and physical resources in order to design and implement materials, structures, machines, devices, systems, and processes that realize a desired objective and meet specified criteria.

Yep, I'd say pretty much any invention or construct would come under engineering...

[ThulRasha]

Hmm, I would hardly call crossbows engineering, but if thats the limit of what you propose an engineer does then I would not mind.

However, starting to make all kinds of machines will move it more and more away from an archer.

[Arbedark]

Hmm, I would hardly call crossbows engineering, but if thats the limit of what you propose an engineer does then I would not mind.

However, starting to make all kinds of machines will move it more and more away from an archer.

A crossbow is a device built to a specifc criteria which realizes a desired objective of inflicting damage, it is in essence, engineered.

And I don't think people are talking about giant constructs such as bridges, buildings, automatons etc, more like small sentries ala D2, other trap style devices (bombs etc) and using a bow / crossbow.

[konfeta]

Ha. Anyone here played Enclave?

The 20 arrow clip crossbow was an epic feat of engineering.

[Kaeros]

I'd really like to see a dark ranger-like character that mixes three things:

- Long-range weaponry (bows, crossbows, and explosive potions),
- Short-range fast weaponry (daggers, rapiers, katars),
- And and an arsenal of poisons and curses.

Basically an amazon/necromancer/assassin hybrid. The debuffs could cause any number of status effects to the monsters, allowing the player to stay at a distance to pick them off with ranged weapons. Or, you could opt for a close-combat build, dual-wielding poisonous daggers that take enemies out faster but leave you more open to damage. Etc..

Stealth could be an interesting mechanic as well, or some sort of "Vanish!" skill a la WOW, to escape when overwhelmed.

[Lyrs]

(Fate/Stay Night Spoiler)

Here's what I want in my Archer class:

"Archer is sarcastic and cynical - but under his hardened exterior lies a complex and dark personality that unfolds throughout the story. Though skilled with ranged weapons, he can hold his own in mêlée combat." - Archer (Wiki) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_(Fate/stay_night))

Regular skills:
-basic elemental/magic resistance
-higher mana capacity
-highly intelligent, tactician with skills for exploiting weaknesses
-great perception abilities and skills

Enhanced Skills:
-Projection: Artifact Replication
--can create any object he/she has seen in the game; skill lvl => accuracy of duplication
-Reinforcement: Enchanting an object, causing it to be more deadly/stronger
--Overloading: reinforcing an object multiple times such that it is usable only once, but delivers massive damage/defense

Master Skill:
-Reality Manipulation
--creates a dimension within a certain radius that greatly boosts Archer's skills

[Funkopotamus]

(Fate/Stay Night Spoiler)

Here's what I want in my Archer class:

"Archer is sarcastic and cynical - but under his hardened exterior lies a complex and dark personality that unfolds throughout the story. Though skilled with ranged weapons, he can hold his own in mêlée combat." - Archer (Wiki) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_(Fate/stay_night))

Regular skills:
-basic elemental/magic resistance
-higher mana capacity
-highly intelligent, tactician with skills for exploiting weaknesses
-great perception abilities and skills

Enhanced Skills:
-Projection: Artifact Replication
--can create any object he/she has seen in the game; skill lvl => accuracy of duplication
-Reinforcement: Enchanting an object, causing it to be more deadly/stronger
--Overloading: reinforcing an object multiple times such that it is usable only once, but delivers massive damage/defense

Master Skill:
-Reality Manipulation
--creates a dimension within a certain radius that greatly boosts Archer's skills
This character sounds like Franklin Richards with a bow. He can kill the demons by raining Grandfather copies from the sky.