Making it more like classic

[Waffen]

Hopefully Uniques will not necassarily be dumbed down, as there will always be a place for them and rightly should be. But hopefully, they won't be the tell tale all that they are currently in D2. D3 should take it back to Classic and Diablo 1 with regards to the items. Rare's should be the uber supreme for the most part, save possibly for the most RAREST of Uniques and perhaps the more RAREST of Runewords >assuming they're back<

The progression of Diablo 2's weaponry is kinda like this. In classic, Uniques and Sets sucked horribly by and large, obviously there was a few good things that stood out, but by and large you didn't see people running around with Unique weapons and Sets in Hell, simply because thye weren't practical. The Expansion came out and all of a sudden, the Classic rares were no longer king. They became obsolete to the new and impressive uniques, and the Grandfather, Windforce and Hellslayer were kings of their time, incredibly rare and incredibly powerful. Sets were also worth using finally, as they were adjusted to survive in Hell more with powerful bonuses, Runewords were also good but not as good as the high end uniques and sets.

Then finally, we had the 1.10 patch and all of a sudden, Runewords were supreme, with things like Breath of the Dying and Last Wish trouncing the high end uniques. You can buy a Doombringer >used to be the 2nd best sword< for Perfect Gems now for crying out loud. People give away Buriza's etc.

Let RARES reign supreme again! No more clones of people using the same gear.

[Hodl Pu]

Yes, It was like this in Classis D2. My gear consisted of a rare executioner sword, a magic ornate plate, a rare crown, 2 rare dual leech rings, sigon shield, some unique belt, and rare chain boots. The imbue quest was actually useful in early D2 classic.

Of course in the early days of D2, those good rares were duped :P

-Imp shank
- Raven Spiral
- that black executioner sword

and i cant think of any more but i know there were a lot.

[pantherus]

I agree with the OP here - except for the save possibly for the most RAREST of Uniques and perhaps the more RAREST of Runewords >assuming they're back< - that's just asking for trouble. no matter how "rare" items are, they're gonna be everywhere before long - and it will be just the same as D2X.

I would really love to have D3 emulate the "good old days" where there was much more randomness, magic items were actually viable (heck, in D1 they were usually all you could really use!) and Uniques were the kind of thing that was cool for a while, but eventually you needed a real "top of the line" item and would spend your time finding it.

I would love for so much of the goings-on in D2 to go away (rushing, leeching, meph/baal runs, etc etc) - but to stay on-topic, things like the imbue quest which people would just hoard until their char was like level 80 and then use them all - I think they if they had a reward like that again, that it's power calculation should be independent of your character's level, and rather dependent on the current difficulty (assuming they still have the multiple difficulties) so that there's more continuity.

I just hate the thought of all those "uber powerful" weapons and stuff that D2X is now rampant with :(

[stillman]

I agree with all of that.

I even like the idea of blue magic items being the absolute best in the very end. Who would have thought? I sometimes like to imagine having an Artisan's tiara of Nirvana (3os with 30 dex) for my glass cannon bowazon. I can't think of a godlier item. And it's a blue magic item! I guess I'm also thinking of cruel grandmasters swords or w/e it was...

Maybe the best would be a mix of uniques, rares, and blue items instead of all uniques and runewords taking over.

[Arbedark]

Maybe the best would be a mix of uniques, rares, and blue items instead of all uniques and runewords taking over.

Like it is in D2 now then...

People complaining that rares are now useless, I have two points for you.
1. If they're so gimp, how come all the top duelers use rare circs, rare rings, rare amy's, rare boots? Oh yeah, its because they don't suck.
2. The best physical damage weapons possible aren't Botd's, or griefs, they're rares. Botd = capped at 415% ED when etheral, Rares can get 450% ED.

Now, useless magics? No:

Magic Dru / Barb Helms with +3 tree, +3 individual skills, 2 socks and FHR, life etc mod as suffix.
Magic 'Sin Claws, either +3 traps, +3 shadows or fools, with adds.
3/10 Amu'.
3/20 Circs.
Jewelers Tiara of xxxx.
Jewelers Armour of xxxx.
JMoD
AToD
3/20 Gloves
2/20 Circs

Just off the top of my head.

So yeah, all you people wishing D3 would be more like classic than LoD, remember, LoD is a LOT more like classic than you nostalgics remember, with less duping, the top end runewords etc will be less common, resulting in more people using the lower end uniques and the top end rares, evening it out.

And regarding classic being more about rares and less about uniques...

Spectral Shard, just about the best caster weapon possible...
Twitchthroe, just about the best melee armour possible...
Sojs, yeh, just about the best caster rings possible...

You guys are almost as bad as all the graphics whiners falsely remembering that all of D2 looked like Act 2 when the darkness came...

[Sein Schatten]

heck, in D1 they were usually all you could really use!

Umm...
Naj's Light Plate, Dreamflange, Thinking Cap were awesome, if not the best, stuff for a sorc AFAIK.

[Funkopotamus]

The only magic items I remember wearing in D1 were jewelry.

[Akse]

Like it is in D2 now then...

People complaining that rares are now useless, I have two points for you.
1. If they're so gimp, how come all the top duelers use rare circs, rare rings, rare amy's, rare boots? Oh yeah, its because they don't suck.
2. The best physical damage weapons possible aren't Botd's, or griefs, they're rares. Botd = capped at 415% ED when etheral, Rares can get 450% ED.

Now, useless magics? No:

Magic Dru / Barb Helms with +3 tree, +3 individual skills, 2 socks and FHR, life etc mod as suffix.
Magic 'Sin Claws, either +3 traps, +3 shadows or fools, with adds.
3/10 Amu'.
3/20 Circs.
Jewelers Tiara of xxxx.
Jewelers Armour of xxxx.
JMoD
AToD
3/20 Gloves
2/20 Circs

Just off the top of my head.

So yeah, all you people wishing D3 would be more like classic than LoD, remember, LoD is a LOT more like classic than you nostalgics remember, with less duping, the top end runewords etc will be less common, resulting in more people using the lower end uniques and the top end rares, evening it out.

And regarding classic being more about rares and less about uniques...

Spectral Shard, just about the best caster weapon possible...
Twitchthroe, just about the best melee armour possible...
Sojs, yeh, just about the best caster rings possible...

You guys are almost as bad as all the graphics whiners falsely remembering that all of D2 looked like Act 2 when the darkness came...

You again.. when do you learn to not compare LOD affected classic to LOD instead of pre-LOD classic to LOD you LOD newbie(have to say this now since you are a stubborn). Because that has been the case of every post you commented with these compares, Pre-LOD vs LOD not Classic vs LOD in 1.10.

Some facts:
"Spectral Shard, just about the best caster weapon possible"
- Yeah now it is when LOD changed the breakpoints of casting. Before LOD people laughed at sorcs using this(I got some laughs for using this on my very first battle.net sorc in 1.04). Before LOD any rare Wand with Fastest Cast rate mana and resists was better than shard.. since you didn't have to get any +dex from items or invest them from stat points. Ume's lament was actually more popular for sorc before LOD than Shard.
In todays classic you get 20% fcr from wand and 50% from shard.. choice is quite easy in most cases. With wand you pretty much need WoE and Magefists and fast cast ring to get decent cast. With Shard you only need 2x fast cast rings to get to the 63 break point.

"Twitchthroe, just about the best melee armour possible..."
- Lol you got to be kidding me. Yeah I used this on levels 1-30 even before LOD.. gave nice stats and swing speed. In classic today I can't think anyone but smiters to use this.. dunno if smiters can even kill a thing in hell games.. Barbs won't use this for sure, they need damage from 2h weapons so twich offers nothing, rare with def, life and resist is easy to get and even something like sigon would be better if you have some other item that you need for set bonus. After 1.10 openwound barbs are in favor of BVB area, well I guess they like to use twich for block with swordbackhold. Well they are owned with high def barbs anyways who have 69% block with pavise and 8k more def or something.

"Sojs, yeh, just about the best caster rings possible..."
- Maybe, but me and many that I know have found many nice fast cast rings but 0 sojs.. 1 soj is nice 2 is maybe overkill for classic where you might wanna favor fast cast mana/life and resists and maybe strenght.


Your lod comments are so useless also:
1. If they're so gimp, how come all the top duelers use rare circs, rare rings, rare amy's, rare boots? Oh yeah, its because they don't suck.
2. The best physical damage weapons possible aren't Botd's, or griefs, they're rares. Botd = capped at 415% ED when etheral, Rares can get 450% ED.

1. Why hmm because they botted or other means like bought forum gold and got those _EXTREMELY_ rare items.
2. Oh yeah best...450% ED well lets see which is more likely you to get.. those duped runes or roll that one in a million if not billion rare. Besides do you get all those stats on rare? Like 30 all attributes... lets see str,dex,vita ==90 stats you can count those as 90 strenght which is what 90% ed? Then we have 60% ias.. well you can get rare with 2 soc and 30% ias and put 2 jewels in there.. but chances of indestructible ethereal and max ED.. how likely is that?

You always say that the Rares are best for many slots in LOD .. yeah you are right but you forget how likely are they? If you look at pre-LOD it was highly likely to get better than uniques and that is how the system should be.

So stop messing pre-LOD D2 and the newbie D2(LOD).

[Arbedark]

Because everyone's arguments about how "Classic" is so kewl and elite due to all the "godly rares", are entirely applicable to LoD, SINCE RARES CAN BE BETTER THAN UNIQUES AND RUNEWORDS IN LOD. It's a novel concept I know. But its true. Classic before LoD was more boring than D1, item choice was limited, class choice was limited, screen size was tiny, the actual game was even easier than it is now, which is saying something. 1.09 was by far the best era.

Now, onto your "arguments".

1. Rares drop more often than uniques. Fact. Increasing MF increase the chance for rares to drop more than for uniques to drop. Fact. More rares drop = higher chance for a good rare to drop = a small amount of time and effort to get something worth trading for a good rare or a good unique.
2. The Issue is DUPING, not the item system, are you special? If everyone and their gran couldn't obtain a ebotdz, do you seriously think people would be using crap like Djinn Slayer, Doombringer etc? No, they'd be using the 300% + ED rares which drop so often.

Getting rares that are better than uniques isn't hard at all. 300% MF = easy to get, do some pit runs etc, rares drop, some uniques drop, trade, ZOMG! I HAVE TEH GODLY RARE!

You think getting rares better than uniques should be easy? And that they should drop all the time? WHY? It makes the concept of uniques obsolete if better rares drop all the time, and it makes the game STUPIDLY EASY, and boring. Everyone has godly gear by level 50, just from playing the game normally, wheres the challenge? Nowhere, might as well make it like GW.

And FINALLY.

WHY IS THE FACT THAT UNIQUES ARE POWERFUL BAD?

Seriously, what is wrong with having powerful uniques?

And don't say that it limits variety, since it doesn't, it does exactly the opposite. Look at your precious pre-LoD classic, all Barbs used Lances or Martels, no variation at all. At least after LoD there was a much wider variation.

[Akse]

WHY IS THE FACT THAT UNIQUES ARE POWERFUL BAD? Because it's from the crappy game called LOD.. things and people were better before LOD.

all Barbs used Lances or Martels haha nub. no way. Martels were not popular.. range 1. Lances yeah.. overpowered but only came around at 1.04 before that Poles, martels, swords were the most popular. Even after 1.04 swords and poles were popular. In lod.. no spears pretty much, poles, swords, axes and maces so wohoo your variety.

gtfo to your precious LOD, cuz it's impossible for you to understand what the game was before it. So useless to argue with the lesser ones that didn't play it.

[Sein Schatten]

Because it's from the crappy game called LOD.. things and people were better before LOD.

haha nub. no way. Martels were not popular.. range 1. Lances yeah.. overpowered but only came around at 1.04 before that Poles, martels, swords were the most popular. Even after 1.04 swords and poles were popular. In lod.. no spears pretty much, poles, swords, axes and maces so wohoo your variety.

gtfo to your precious LOD, cuz it's impossible for you to understand what the game was before it. So useless to argue with the lesser ones that didn't play it.

Why do you flame? Are you already out of arguments? I don't take someone who posts like this serious.
If the concept or power proportionate to rarity if too much for you to grasp you will never understand what I say.

Example since I remember it fondly. I sold it for like 500 gold, pre BC:
In WoW there is one, if not the, best twink weapon for lvl 19. The weapon is the Shadowfang, found inside Shadowfang Keep, a low level instance. This weapon is awesome for twinks, as I said. But the droprate is so horrible a high pop server can be happy if one or two have dropped (back then). Now explain to me, in a non-flammatory way, why that system is bad?

[Akse]

Why do you flame? Are you already out of arguments? I don't take someone who posts like this serious. Cuz I got bored to explain this lod tard what the game was for the 3rd time. I've made 3 accs of chars before lod and in 1.09 I made 4 accounts of classic characters. After 1.10 I've made about 1 account of classic characters. I have a pretty good knowledge what items to wear and what not in classic. Now I havent played so much of LOD but about 2-3 accounts of characters is enough to know what it is about.

The biggest difference in classic uniqs/rares and lod uniqs/rares is the case that in classic you get an ok char with uniques. In lod you can get a super char with uniques. In classic if you want super you can get some nice rares. In lod if you want mega super char you have mix of craft,uniq,rares. In classic you have top rares.. in some cases also a few uniques.

I never said it was easy to get top rares.. but it was easy to get rares that are better than the uniques. This is not the case in LOD, there are a lot more item types to drop, so getting the one type you are looking for with the right stats is really hard. The whole drop system kinda changed when LOD came since what I remember from pre-lod there wasn't much quilted armors or such droppign from hell. Pretty much only exceptionals, so you didn't find loads of useless items in hell. This is what bothers most people, finding rares with kickass stats in a crappy item type in hell.

I have a feeling that the change in the drop system was because in lod there are exceptional and elite uniques also. It could be difficult find different type of uniques with the old system. Act4 hell dropped mostly only top item types. Execs/zweihanders, lances, martels, gothic bows, ornate plates before LOD IIRC.

Anyways I have a feeling there will be a big change in the system for d3. At least runewords are out already.

[Arbedark]

Because it's from the crappy game called LOD.. things and people were better before LOD.

And this is why your opinion is worthless.

Pure prejudice against LoD without any substantial claims as to why. No reasoning, no intelligence in the post whatsoever.

Pure rabid fanboyism for "Classic".

When you can articulate yourself properly and present an argument in an effective manner instead of resorting to name calling and elitest claims, then people might take you more seriously.

[Gorny]

He who flames will end up getting hit with the fire extinguisher.




Consider yourselves warned

[Akse]

And this is why your opinion is worthless.

Pure prejudice against LoD without any substantial claims as to why. No reasoning, no intelligence in the post whatsoever.

Pure rabid fanboyism for "Classic".

When you can articulate yourself properly and present an argument in an effective manner instead of resorting to name calling and elitest claims, then people might take you more seriously.
The arguments were before those.. that was just the perfect ending for my post.

No one will take you seriously after the list of so called "Superior" uniques and the rares of your LOD with those close to impossible stats, at least for most players.

And anyways i'm not here to be taken serious.. i'm just here to tell what I think about the topic and when the topic was pre-lod vs lod times pretty much I think it was a nice spot to tell what I think about LOD ****ing up the game.

I guess this thread is complete since Arbedark already missed the OP's idea and compared 1.10 classic to LOD when the OP was talking about pre-LOD and LOD.

SO if you don't know what pre-LOD was like don't reply with your 1.10 knowledge, because it doesn't fit there.

[Arbedark]

I guess this thread is complete since Arbedark already missed the OP's idea and compared 1.10 classic to LOD when the OP was talking about pre-LOD and LOD.

Let RARES reign supreme again! No more clones of people using the same gear.

The summation of the OP.

And then;

Maybe the best would be a mix of uniques, rares, and blue items instead of all uniques and runewords taking over.

Which is the subject matter of my first reply.

Which is where I clearly stated that this is how D2 is NOW. Since the OP's gripe is that supposedly in LoD, rares cannot be good. Which I pointed out is a fallacy.

stillman then suggested a system which is already in place, to which I responded by informing him of such.

when the topic was pre-lod vs lod times pretty much I think it was a nice spot to tell what I think about LOD ****ing up the game.

All you've done is wail how LoD is awful, and maybe is the cause for cancer. And all because it changed the system of rares so that they're more difficult to find godly ones, yet easier to find good uniques etc.

No reason WHY THIS IS A BAD THING.

SO if you don't know what pre-LOD was like don't reply with your 1.10 knowledge, because it doesn't fit there.

I'm free to reply as much as I want then, since I played D2 since release.

[Akse]

All you've done is wail how LoD is awful, and maybe is the cause for cancer. And all because it changed the system of rares so that they're more difficult to find godly ones, yet easier to find good uniques etc. All that because this topic is about items. There are dozens of things in LOD that screwed up the game, but which I don't wanna discuss in this item thread. Besides nice to quote one sentence when there is a pretty much wall of text about the items in my posts.

I'm free to reply as much as I want then, since I played D2 since release.
Then learn to read the original post and reply accordingly.

[Gorny]

Then learn to read the original post and reply accordingly.


Who gave you the right to tell people how they should reply to any post?

[Raith]

i remember in d1, thats basically what the items were.. i mean, barely ANYONE used uniques.

[AGTJ]

Hopefully rares will remain on the level if not above the level of uniques (Lvl vs Lvl of course) in D3, with rune words disappearing.

Jay mentioned uniques in D3 would have variables... not sure if that means 'every' unique or not, you could always get a really bad stat'd unique (aka Ribcracker) and could use it on your char until you could trade for / or find another 'higher stat'd' one - would make the game more interesting if everything could have variable stats (and maybe even mods - but to a certain extent).

[AniMe]

The bottom line is this; In Classic uniques did serve a purpose, there was no level requirement and they helped your character in the beginning but most grew obsolete late game in favor of rares - the perfect way in my opinion.

Rare weapons are utter crap now. Like has been said; a weapon CAN be Ethereal and have 450% ED but as far as I know, no such weapon has spawned yet on any server.

And the odds of them spawning on a GOOD weapon is even slimmer.

This means that no one will ever use a rare weapon in the current state of D2...

In Classic you were truly unique because those who didn't use dupes never had the same gear as everyone else.

Now I know what everyone wears and D2 is not fun anymore in the item department.