Will we fight gods?

[qOcOp]

Tyrael is only a angel so obviously there are higher rank people over him. Perhaps we will fight god(s)?:coffee:

[SoulSpectrum]

Dunno.... The Diablo lore has the same words like angel and demon, but with different meaning compared to real societies. There hasn't been anything to my knowledge about a higher being.... But that would be cool if something happened to end the "sin war"... Something that elemenated one of the elements of High Heavens, Burning Hells, or Earth.

[Ampersand]

He's an Archangel...which to my knowledge is as high as you go in the angelology...unless they change that ofc.

[Gamekk]

I doubt we'll see Gods... Diablo is more about demons and angels.

Anyway, I despise every plot or story where a hero gets to see/interact with a god, fight a god or defeat a god (worse). It's just too much, I mean gods are supposed to have created the world and all and they get defeat i mean WTF... (sorry if I seem angry about this i'm currently reading a series of book where, at the 11th tome, a dead guy defeats one of the highest gods. I almost barfed)

[deadbeater]

I doubt we'll see Gods... Diablo is more about demons and angels.

Anyway, I despise every plot or story where a hero gets to see/interact with a god, fight a god or defeat a god (worse). It's just too much, I mean gods are supposed to have created the world and all and they get defeat i mean WTF... (sorry if I seem angry about this i'm currently reading a series of book where, at the 11th tome, a dead guy defeats one of the highest gods. I almost barfed)

Actually, the Greek/Roman Gods were usupers of the Titans, who were the descendants of Eros who was said to have created the world.

There is a saying in Zen Buddhism that goes something like this: if you meet the Buddha, you have to try to kill him.

[stillman]

I want my d3 chr to become a god. I want special god status. Immortality too.

-When he picks up a white item, he drops it and it turns into a blue magic item.

-He bleeds gold whenever he looses hp's.

-Anything he trades in tradescreen has his aura tacked on as a mod.

-He can personalize infinite numbers of items.

-His 10 selected end game items get converted to perfect ones.

-He can resurect other players on the battlefield.

-He can create a man or a woman. Whoever clicks on this new chr gets to make a new chr with better starting stats.

-He can part rivers and just walk across without having to use a bridge. Or walk on water.

Hey, I'm just kidding.

[Elric-Logain]

The Diablo world of Sanctuary seems to mostly avoid the issue of whether true gods exist apart from the angelic and demonic hosts, and I like it that way. It makes the actions the supernatural characters far more ambiguous in motive and nature. Human religions in this world are mostly founded around angelic and demonic principles of light and darkness, good and evil, and order and chaos. The world naturally gravitates towards a well developed Manichean worldview.

In this game I do not expect that we will fight gods, but merely that the heavens shall tremble.

[Generic]

I think a fight against an ArchAngel could be extremely fun.

[ZSiegfried]

I hope that we don't need to go against the Light...Aren't we supposed to be fighting against the Darkness? I don't mind fighting against a traitorous fallen Archangel but fighting against pure good? Not so much... :no:

[Generic]

I always thought the "light" and "dark" were closer to the representations in Todd Mcfarlane's "Spawn". That is the "light" isn't so much "pure good" as we think of it. It is hard to explain how it is represented in the comics. Although it seems almost toltalitarian, and has a "sacrifice a few to save many" slant.

[ZSiegfried]

Well as far as understand the Light is completely good but they don't have too much patience with anything that isn't as good as them or doesn't completely fall in their plans.

They will easily "sacrifice many to just save their ideals" which is considered not so "good" by many...

I think that in the Diablo universe it’s easier to think of the Darkness as the dirty, ugly and funky looking ones and the Light as the clean, cool peeps with awesome wings... Not to be confused with worldly definitions of good and evil...

[SoulSpectrum]

Exactly.... they may appear good in light, but really in all, it's just a title. The High Heavens is more like an order, a system or government. In the Beginning there was the darkness and the light. They interact with one another because that is their purpose, or put more simply, what else was there? Without one, there is no other, just a balanced equation with irreversible entities. Two sides of a war equally matched. Now we introduce X, being Sanctuary, into this equation.... Now there's more matter, that is neither nor, but can be formatted to either side.... changes everything. The greater amount will win.
The Bruning Hells want Sanctuary because within it is the power to stop this war. The High Heavens wanted sanctuary to live because just as easily they can end this war. However, the High Heavens sought to destroy the world because that is also a chance of it turning to the opposing force.
Sanctuary has proven that they can stop if not atleast hold strong against the Burning Hells, on Sanctuary's territory.... But what about the High Heavens? I have a feeling Imperius would be a formidable opponet. In the Sin Wars Uldyssian was able to stop everything at once.... so now we have a triangle of existance.....
But the homepage as an article saying that there are other worlds in the Diablo universe completely destroying the special circumstances of Sanctuary, pretty much killing the lore of this whole game... (Yeah, that kind of bugs me, but oh well.... hopefully they won't go completely WoWish [not gameplay, but story] and start pulling things from out of no freaking where).

[ZSiegfried]

Do you really think that sanctuary can even compete with the Light and Darkness? Your lore knowledge is more than mine...

Maybe in Sanctuary, where their power is limited we can match them but in the greater equation I think we are not comparable but since they are balanced we are the "swing vote"?

[SoulSpectrum]

Yeah it's somewhat like that.... if you want a good read pick up the Sin War Triliogy by Richard A. Knaak. His writing style is good..... but not to compelling. There'll be boring pasrts for about 60% of the triliogy... however that 40% makes up for it.
Not to ruin any spoilers, one of the nephilim (humans) had so much power that he completely stopped both the burning hells and high heavens.... but that was with some advance hlep of the demons and angels.... it would take an unbelievable amount of time before the humans can be able to tap and control that power inside of them.... but it's really a great read to get the lore.

[GRaFFiKNaTuRE]

how dope would it be if diablo 4 some god decided it was tired of this war between good and evil and decided to end it all... and dark and light had to join forces against God

would be dope as ****, having diablo and tyreal vibin in town and buying weapons from mephisto.

the cinematic would be incredible for the end of it all

[SoulSpectrum]

I'd only be dope if Wert opens up his tavern! I could only imagine seeing Baal trying to walk. Maybe we'll see Duriel trying to give the Mistress of Pain some compliments on her.... fangs?

[Kordova]

i would actually like to see the 3 prime evils as more of a side quest, think about it diablo 1 main boss diablo, diablo 2 basicly has 3 main bosses, mephisto, diablo, and baal... and they have been spanked how many times now??? maybe the ultimate evil? the ruler of the three, a nasty power you must defeat all three at the same time( much like uber trist) aquirering their skulls to more or less "summon" this all powerful ruler of darkness

i think the idea that your fighting the light would be fatal to the story of diablo...might as well call it jesus

[SoulSpectrum]

From the lore stand point, there hasn't been anything mentioned about a higher being... I picture it being like the Burning Hells as one big entity of dark power. The Primes just happen to be the bigger clumps of power which in the ranks of Burning Hells, the strongest are on top. So, I think the Primes are pretty much the tops of the tops and there's no one else to take the place.... unless someone smarter and more powerful came along... but they'd have to be an outsider.... from you know... Sanctuary? Just a possibility.
As far as seeing more diabolical enemies, check out Imperius.... We actually may have seen some artwork of him, unofficial. There's also some other angels. Belial and Azmodan are the two lesser evils of Lies and Sins.... No imagine fighting the Lord of Lies..... What kind of sick plot twists could they develop! Then there's always unmentioned characters of Sanctuary like rogue Necromancers or Wizards.
This one's far out there.... but it's possible. Inarius. Look up what happened to him from the D1 manual and try to picture seeing him as whole in your head..... pretty nasty, in a delicious sense.

[Kordova]

Maybe a compilation of the three, "diamephaal" could burst forth from the world stone as it is being destroyed as a spirit that flees to hell... i like the idea of a Rouge necromancer sewing together the parts of the 3 and meshing the spirit with this franken'prime

[Frostraven]

I hope that we don't need to go against the Light...Aren't we supposed to be fighting against the Darkness? I don't mind fighting against a traitorous fallen Archangel but fighting against pure good? Not so much... :no:

Pure good: No cursing, no criticism allowed, no unprovoked violence, no eating of animals, no sex outside/before marrige, no divorces, no alcohol or drugs or mind altering substances, no selfishness or self indulgence allowed, no selling of items for profit, everyone works for the same payment, everyone has to share with those who have little. It's communism.
There would be zero tolerance for these actions; death penalty.
To the absolute good, everything not absolutely good is definately evil.

I always liked the idea of light beeing too good for humans.
Face it.
Humans aren't good, we're neutral.
Most humans can't live with the same person in marrige without growing unhappy through the years.
Most humans lie, get addicted to something (coffee, sugar, chocolate, alcohol, coca cola, pepsi max etc.), commit unprovoked acts of violence at some point, sells things for profit whenever they can, are self indulgent, think's he should get more paid than the next man, doesn't care about the pain and suffering of his food, can but won't do anything about the suffering of others in the world because it doesn't make *him* happy to have less, and so on and so on.

Just read the old testament for silly laws the forces of good would try to pull down over our heads.
Death penalty for cursing your parents, death penalty for having sex outside marrige, death penalty for *** sex.

We love our sinners, and love to sin -- to an extent.
Which is why we don't side with the demons, either.

[ZSiegfried]

Pure good: No cursing, no criticism allowed, no unprovoked violence, no eating of animals, no sex outside/before marrige, no divorces, no alcohol or drugs or mind altering substances, no selfishness or self indulgence allowed, no selling of items for profit, everyone works for the same payment, everyone has to share with those who have little. It's communism.
There would be zero tolerance for these actions; death penalty.
To the absolute good, everything not absolutely good is definately evil.

I always liked the idea of light beeing too good for humans.
Face it.
Humans aren't good, we're neutral.
Most humans can't live with the same person in marrige without growing unhappy through the years.
Most humans lie, get addicted to something (coffee, sugar, chocolate, alcohol, coca cola, pepsi max etc.), commit unprovoked acts of violence at some point, sells things for profit whenever they can, are self indulgent, think's he should get more paid than the next man, doesn't care about the pain and suffering of his food, can but won't do anything about the suffering of others in the world because it doesn't make *him* happy to have less, and so on and so on.

Just read the old testament for silly laws the forces of good would try to pull down over our heads.
Death penalty for cursing your parents, death penalty for having sex outside marrige, death penalty for *** sex.

We love our sinners, and love to sin -- to an extent.
Which is why we don't side with the demons, either.

I would really appreciate it if you could remember that Diablo is set in a completely fictional universe and is not based on any Worldly religious belief or history. Because frankly, I would not have played it if that were the case.

I think you are completely entitled to your own opinion and beliefs but please keep them out of the Diii.net forums if they are going to infringe on and belittle the beliefs of others, be they what they may. I am a serious Christian and to be honest I am a little insulted by your post. But like I said earlier these forums are neither the place nor time to begin a religious discussion. I am more than willing to respond or debate around the statements that you made, so if you want to send me a PM I am more than willing to reply...

Go well...

[SoulSpectrum]

I agree with Frostraven's and ZSiegFried's opinions. This is purely opinionated by all for all have that choice. (Lol, Diablo stuff being Sanctuary has choice of Heavn or Hells side). What Frostraven said is indeed facts in the United States. For instance, in 2004 divorce rates were 56.2%. People are more involved in the temperature of their StarBucks mocha as opposed to the 382 homless people who died(natural=starvation/froze/sickness) in SLC, UT 2006. The world around us is falling in standards and is being held high in ugly criterias for absence in giving two s***s. People please go to the nearest food bank or shelter and spend 40 minutes in one week and realize how much you've helped someone by giving your donated time. My kudos and respect to the two of you for expressing solid opinions.
But, so this post won't get deleted. In terms to relevation, The Angels look at Sanctuary as abominations. The inhabitants are a mixture of Angel/Demon, both good/bad. They're opposing the "High Heavens/Burning Hells" natural order.... thus is what makes us so special. The main reason I enjoy the story of Diablo is because right isn't right, and wrong isn't wrong.... What these characters go through and experience are variants in conflicts where lies and truthes are sorted out through your own knowledge and not what you're told. Another great thing about this is that we won't know what's going to happen in the future of the game because almost every character I can think of runs on complete emotion. Imperius has this overwhelming sense of being right.... Cain has an undying service to find redemption through his lack of name in the Horadirum.... The opposing forces continue to fight in the Great Conflict because of their existence is solely based upon control and opposing the opposite.... What's life without death? What meaning would that hold? What's cold without the recognition of hot? How can you tell the difference?

[ZSiegfried]

I enjoy Diablo lore, fantasy literature and mythological text because they give you insight into the human psyche. Myths were used to explain natural phenomenon etc. to pre-scientific cultures to a major extent. In overwhelming fantasy literature and indeed Diablo, the point of the novel/game is prevailing over evil. This for me is a metaphorical battle over the evil that each of us fight throughout our lives. That is why we enjoy killing demons in a game because it serves as a proxy for issues in our own lives...

What makes Diablo stand out from the mediocrity of most good vs. evil plots for me is that good and evil isn't black and white much like real life where things are more gray and where too much of a good thing is also bad.

Good and evil is blurred and majorly influenced from your perspective on the matter. To make it game specific: Fighting with Tyrael against the brothers who want to do bad things to the people of Santuary = good. Fighting against Imperius who wants to kill innocent people = good. Examples that seem contradictory in form but not so in substance.

I think that overall it’s just better to see the game as Order vs. Chaos. Like SoulSpectrum said the one wouldn’t be able to exist without the other but at the same time out of the definition of what they are, their purpose is to destroy the other. The philosophical question is then; if the one succeeds would he really still exist? Would destroying the one not actually destroy both?

And I finish up with one of my favourite quotes, tying up with SoulSpectrum’s hot cold example: “Without the bitter, the sweet just ain’t so sweet...” (I think it’s out of Vanilla Sky but I might be wrong.) :thumbup:

That's my two cents worth, feel free to disagree...

[Schwalker]

We got Trang Oul of corse...Who or what is he? Does other like him excist and have similar powers.

[NKlint]

Trang Oul is supposed to be the enormous dragon on whose back the world of sanctuary lies, IIRC.

[SoulSpectrum]

Trang Oul does exist... There are others like him aswell... But other than that, not much light has been shed on the picture. His being, specifically Trang Oul's, is a direct link with the creation and being of Sanctuary. He came into existence When Sanctuary did. He is the light and darkness in one. He feels the hatred and happiness of all. He is simply all being of every knowledgeable aspect within existence. When you're all knowing and being, omnipotent, what side do you choose? Neither.... He's the balance, the turkey/ham/tuna in the middle of a sandwich. Yummy....... The only deciding factor in his choice his connection to Sanctuary and its inhabitants. Without them, he simply would not be.
I wanna see an army of Necros. the more and more I think about it, this is the key role of balance needed to be spoken upon through time! Balance.

[Schwalker]

Trang Oul does exist... There are others like him aswell... But other than that, not much light has been shed on the picture. His being, specifically Trang Oul's, is a direct link with the creation and being of Sanctuary. He came into existence When Sanctuary did. He is the light and darkness in one. He feels the hatred and happiness of all. He is simply all being of every knowledgeable aspect within existence. When you're all knowing and being, omnipotent, what side do you choose? Neither.... He's the balance, the turkey/ham/tuna in the middle of a sandwich. Yummy....... The only deciding factor in his choice his connection to Sanctuary and its inhabitants. Without them, he simply would not be.
I wanna see an army of Necros. the more and more I think about it, this is the key role of balance needed to be spoken upon through time! Balance.


Sounds Godlike enough to me...in an almost Hindu way perhaps.

[SoulSpectrum]

Sounds Godlike enough to me...in an almost Hindu way perhaps.

True true, just like how Diablo is the "Lord of Terror". It's just that the games don't give him/it the justice he deserves, poor Diablo.... The books do better with that. They pretty much describe him when a mortal looks upon him an overwhelming sense of terror covers and completes their entire soul in horror....

[Kordova]

which is why i have always felt a moral factor should come in to affect, much like DnD...laugh if u will i must satisfy my imagination and Diablo aint enugh. but seriously as characters we are only human seeing these demons for the first time, hell seeing andy in person would make almost anyone cower in fear.

[SoulSpectrum]

Exactly! That's why it's fun to read these books to get a good depth into each character and setting.... I can't wait to see the new game's later acts! One Blizzcast had Wilson comment on how the acts are going to get darker/unholy/unimaginable, and they won't lighten up... Can't wait!

[Kordova]

oo tasty, any mention of previous npc's in d2 we might fight, like a currupt Larzuk?

[SoulSpectrum]

I haven't heard any specific NPCs mentioned as opponents..... But I'm sure they'll work in a few known characters to fight. Already we'll fight Leroic (if they keep it in the final release). But as for NPCs.... I have the foggiest. Anyone else know? I can only imagine a corrupt Anya.... I hated saving her pathetic arse 60+ times.... oh the joy....

[jamesisbest]

Well I don't think we will be fighting gods, it doesn't seem appropriate in Diablo. I mean we fight the top demons of hell so that is already climactic enough to keep most of us satisfied. It would seem over-the-top to try to 1up top Demons though fighting angels would be a reasonable twist that would be quite fun in my opinion. Yes we will fight enemies we know from Diablo and Diablo 2 but they haven't announced any specific characters we will fight other than King Leoric if, as mentioned in the previous page, they keep the battle in the final release.

[Kordova]

well techniqly we have already faught angels, Izual.

[ginNtonic]

Very curious what they're going todo in this regard. you can only kill diablo so many times.

[SoulSpectrum]

To name a few that can be fought are:
Belial, Azmodan, Imperius, other Arch Angels of the Angrius Council, Mistress of Pain (Looks sweet), Inarius (God I've never prayed before... maybe I will to see this guy in the game!), Gharbad The Weak (youtube him), Then there's of course a number of Nephilim that we don't know about, angels/demons not yet mentioned, other beings of Sanctuary such as the Lord of Ureh (which is on the Diablo 3 World Map, but is it now connected back to Sanctuary? How can we be sure unless the eclipse comes again), Then whatever Blizz throws at us including the FireBat Tauren or Protoss that'll merge into an archon (That'd be a sweet easter egg, easter egg that you can kill= satisfaction for any game falws).

[happysmacks]

Very curious what they're going todo in this regard. you can only kill diablo so many times.

as long as hell still burns diablo will live forever :crazyeyes:


i sure hope as hell we dont fight gods in this version... they dont fit in the game i dont think?!? :ponder:

i recon there will be loads more fallen angels like Izzy tho! that would be awesome! :jig:

[ribbonwing]

i can see us fighting angels. now that the worldstone is destroyed, humans are going to start turning back into nephalem. i doubt the angels will like this.

[Leord]

As someone mentioned, the High Heavens and the Burning Hells, are both locations and factions of a war of supernatural beings. The High Heavens are Order and the Burning Hells are Chaos. The angels are "Good" and the demons are "Evil".

It's a lot like "Spawn", actually.

Also, there ARE gods. Look at the Amazon page, and through the manuals for all this info:
Diablo I Manual
Diablo II Manual
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction Manual

Having said that, I doubt we'll be fighting much angels. I think that Tyrael was cast out of heaven though:

http://www.diii.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=724

He already looks to start burning.

And then the big crater....