View Full Version : Evolving items
As a new feature for D3, I would like the item to evolve. Such that, if you use a sword for some time, it gains additional magic properties. Or it's current magic properties are augmented. The same goes for the other items. Of course, the improvement is directly proportional with the battle experience accumulated during fights, and you have to use an item for a long time to see a major improvement. After a boss fight, for example, the items could gain some special magic property that is in relation with the boss magic specific.
The lore explication is that even the items borrow from their master magical energy, in time. As well from the places and environments that their master takes them. This thing is documented in crystal magic, where the crystals gain more power over time, and if you take them in several places.
stillman
16-01-2009, 14:37
I'm for it, and it doesn't even have to do with magic. We should logically get an AR bonus for using the same end game weapon for so long. Maybe even by using the same skill with the same weapon for long enough, we could gain a bonus skill point when using that skill with that weapon.
Doctor Salvador
16-01-2009, 23:48
I'm for it, and it doesn't even have to do with magic. We should logically get an AR bonus for using the same end game weapon for so long. Maybe even by using the same skill with the same weapon for long enough, we could gain a bonus skill point when using that skill with that weapon.
Wouldn't it be nifty if you got a title after using a certain weapon for so long? Hagar Hammer-Wielder.
I'd rather they eventually become unique weapons, based on the magical properties that have accumulated on them overtime
They could start out as Normal...then add on 1-2 properties to become magical after 5000 monsters are killied with the weapon.. then it becomes rare and adds on another 1-2 properties after 50000 monsters have been killed...then it becomes a unique after 500000 million monsters have been killed with it.
You could slowly upgrade certain properties (i.e. increase the enhanced damage by 2% every 500 kills) while in transition
stillman
17-01-2009, 06:33
As long as the monsters are within 10 levels of your chr so you can't go to normal mode and butcher everything easily.
jakotaco
17-01-2009, 11:41
While some long-use weapon mastery or magic absorbing weapons could be cool. We mustn't forget that a big part of the fun in this game series lies in constantly improving your gear with what you find and/or trade for. As such I am a bit sceptic to a game mechanic discouraging people from changing gear. However I do see some merit to it, maybe one could have it as an affix that can show up on certain items? (ie. "Evolving Long Sword of Butchery") could have something like "X% chance on kill to improve damage by A, up to a maximum of B"
Another issue is whether the evolution should stick to the weapon or to the user, "evolving weapons" could cause some problems while trading, depending on how it's done.
I think that if Blizzard implements the idea of an 'evolving weapon' that it should be a fairly rare occurrence - otherwise the best weapon in the game would be the first weapon you picked up because you'd easily log the most kills with it, and there would be really no point in trying to find another. However, if there were a certain rarity to these items, then it would be worth to find better items until such a weapon were found.
otherwise the best weapon in the game would be the first weapon you picked up because you'd easily log the most kills with it, and there would be really no point in trying to find another.
That won't happen. You still have to count in the base quality of an item. Look at some weapon in diablo II. A wws is a nice items, though it won't ever come to the power of windforce, not even when fully evolved.
Something similar will be in diablo III. Perhaps there will be more items that can compete for top weapon, certainly when you have evolved some and other not.
Though I'm not sure I like the idea. In diablo II, some of the fun parts for me is that you know what items you will get to use with all the stats. You can do calculation with respect to ias, lifeleech. If you then suddenly change the properties of an item, you lose this predictability. And eventhough it will add to the core game play, I would hate to see this get lost, certainly when already that many aspects of the character creating process will be less aimed towards planning.
That won't happen. You still have to count in the base quality of an item. Look at some weapon in diablo II. A wws is a nice items, though it won't ever come to the power of windforce, not even when fully evolved.
I thought about that after I'd posted, but for casters where the base stats don't necessarily matter, this could create a problem nonetheless. If Blizzard were to run with this idea, perhaps tying the overall power of potential growth to innate item level could solve the problem.
In the end, I find this an unlikely feature of the new game.
"As long as the monsters are within 10 levels of your chr so you can't go to normal mode and butcher everything easily."
stillman, you can avoid killing everything on normal with an hell character. But there must be some sort of major decrement in gaining magical proprieties, for items if the player has a nightmare character that plays on normal.
"Another issue is whether the evolution should stick to the weapon or to the user"
jakotaco, the evolution changes the item properties, and current weapons from D2 have different attributes even if they are unique, what trading problems are you referring? For the discouragement of changing gear it won't be a problem, because a good improvement on a weapon is hard to obtain. What will be good is that the player will attached himself more to the items and in his mind will become more valuable, not just another object in the item's big roulette. And for the hell players (that near the end will hardly find items more valuable than what they have) will be an important impulse to continue the game.
"A wws is a nice items, though it won't ever come to the power of windforce, not even when fully evolved.
Something similar will be in diablo III."
I'm totally agree with you, NASE.
"If you then suddenly change the properties of an item, you lose this predictability."
The item doesn't change that drastically, it gains new proprieties (if you are lucky after a boss fight), and in general the evolution is at a slow pace. The important thing is that the evolution exist.
jakotaco
21-01-2009, 18:54
jakotaco, the evolution changes the item properties, and current weapons from D2 have different attributes even if they are unique, what trading problems are you referring? For the discouragement of changing gear it won't be a problem, because a good improvement on a weapon is hard to obtain. What will be good is that the player will attached himself more to the items and in his mind will become more valuable, not just another object in the item's big roulette. And for the hell players (that near the end will hardly find items more valuable than what they have) will be an important impulse to continue the game.
I guess the concept of building a special relationship to that rare weapon you found some acts ago might count for something. But it does make it harder to change gear if for example a newly dropped level 63 sword starts out weaker than that level 39 sword you have been using for a long time. Even if that level 63 sword might be a better endgame weapon. Having to re-kill all act bosses every time you change your weapon doesn't sound like anything you'd like to do too often.
Another thing that must be considered is that you are possibly weakened while replacing your weapon, which is quite logical in a way but can be quite annoying as you often needs to replace your weapons the most when the game is the most difficult.
Having the effect being a magical enhancement of the weapon rather than an increased proficiency of the user gets rid of the problem with the player accidentally "reseting" a weapon by for example muling or borrowing an item from a friend (as it would be way too much information too keep track of every item and how much every character has used that specific item)
With item improvement it instead, (which might or might not be a problem depending on whom you ask) leads to players running around with their strongest chars to "evolve weapons" which are then used for twinking or trading. For example a level 90 Wizard repeatedly killing Diablo on hell difficulty to get his "boss mod" to improve his weapon for his level 12 barbarian...
Having the effect being a magical enhancement of the weapon rather than an increased proficiency of the user gets rid of the problem with the player accidentally "reseting" a weapon
If you make something like this user bases, wouldn't it be a weapon type mastery. If you can fight with one small sword, why can't you do this with an other. The effective fighting is the same.
This solves the problem with resetting a weapon too. Keeping track of some different kind of weapons doesn't add that much storage.
Ain't really evolving. Though it might be something similar that doesn't have resetting problem while it wouldn't damage the predictability of the weapons. If you play the whole game with a sword, the benefits become more predicting the when it's item based - as your end game weapon will evolve tremendous with an item based system.
teh_Thrasher
22-01-2009, 05:57
cant say i like this idea. AT ALL. "u have a weapon that gains mods when u kill lots of creatures or act bosses" farming abuse flares up all around this idea.
and they already have a mod that increases an items dmg/AR or other such mod. one of them is like Fools. i dont have the time to look up all the names they already have. but i can tell u this "evolving" mod shouldnt be in the game. it would cut down on having to find/trade for newer and better equipment. which in turn would allow u to seemingly breeze through the game with one weapon X_X
teh_Thrasher, the evolving weapon system is a slow pace one. It won't replace the changing gear Diablo system that we use too. It's a subtle change like different sounds for uniques and rares dropped items, who don't seem like a major change, but who could potential be a great game improvement.
The system it's starts to make a big difference on ultimate items from hell. They can be upgraded (especially if you defeat bosses) to even more powerful items (and that are the REAL items to trade).
cant say i like this idea. AT ALL. "u have a weapon that gains mods when u kill lots of creatures or act bosses" farming abuse flares up all around this idea.
The farming abuse can't be worse then normal farming of act bosses. You go and kill the act boss and hope to get a better items. And if you're lucky, you get that additional mods that improves your weapon. As long as the mods are limited and well balanced, I don't really see that much abuse possibilities.
Would you mind explaining to me how you see this abuse take place?
I agree with Thrasher. Bad idea. If the Evolving items are good, then you would not want to go for a random item. Conversely, if the Evolving items are nerfed, then when bother? the only thing to do is have the "Evolving" be short term growth, a minor bonus (+2 fire damage after 300 kills, ex.) and IT HAS TO HAVE A CEILING. Infinite growth is never good, or even long term growth (like, over the course of a few levels). Have the "evolution" (needs a better name) be an extra property that can be randomly added to items, where using it enough unlocks a bonus, could be viable because it is an interesting mechanic while still becoming obsolete eventually as better gear appears. To summarize: The evolution bonus should be a little treat, and not a core part of the item or the game.
teh_Thrasher
25-01-2009, 08:16
Would you mind explaining to me how you see this abuse take place?
well right now in d2 u farm act bosses like mephisto for a CHANCE to get a good item. if this evolving weapon were to be implemented u would get the increase every kill (be it act boss or regular demon)
and id also like to point out they already have a similar evolving weapon system in place that works and has limits... the bonuses increase on leveling up ;)
I'm for it, and it doesn't even have to do with magic. We should logically get an AR bonus for using the same end game weapon for so long. Maybe even by using the same skill with the same weapon for long enough, we could gain a bonus skill point when using that skill with that weapon.
great stuff!
I would personally like to see quests for items-say the people in town talk about a special weapon or armor that requires you to embark on a quest to retrieve it-only by defeating a boss or two
As a new feature for D3, I would like the item to evolve. Such that, if you use a sword for some time, it gains additional magic properties. Or it's current magic properties are augmented. The same goes for the other items. Of course, the improvement is directly proportional with the battle experience accumulated during fights, and you have to use an item for a long time to see a major improvement. After a boss fight, for example, the items could gain some special magic property that is in relation with the boss magic specific.
The lore explication is that even the items borrow from their master magical energy, in time. As well from the places and environments that their master takes them. This thing is documented in crystal magic, where the crystals gain more power over time, and if you take them in several places.
I have to say, this is in my opinion one of the best ideas I have read so far since D3 was announced. In other words I love this concept. I would not even expect anything major in terms of added properties, even minor augmentations would be a great concept. I have tons of items on my characters that I have had in use now for several years.
Since the first time I saw this posted I thought about the fact this could be very difficult to implement in regards to the added requirements for the server end. But, what about having at the very least one question reward where we can pick an item to imbue to our character? We already have in D2 the imbue, socket, and name quests. Why not have one where we select our favorite item and give it the ability to evolve with our characters? I don't think they could do this for every item as the requirements to track the stats on every item would be a server overload.
good idea. sounds like disgaea: hour of darkness. another cool thing from this game is the item world which powers up your items and is basically a never ending dungeon, another thing some fans want.
I agree with Thrasher. Bad idea. If the Evolving items are good, then you would not want to go for a random item. Conversely, if the Evolving items are nerfed, then when bother? the only thing to do is have the "Evolving" be short term growth, a minor bonus (+2 fire damage after 300 kills, ex.) and IT HAS TO HAVE A CEILING. Infinite growth is never good, or even long term growth (like, over the course of a few levels). Have the "evolution" (needs a better name) be an extra property that can be randomly added to items, where using it enough unlocks a bonus, could be viable because it is an interesting mechanic while still becoming obsolete eventually as better gear appears. To summarize: The evolution bonus should be a little treat, and not a core part of the item or the game.
grug: you can fix this problem by having an item world for EVERY item in the game, and then balance accordingly.
the base value of the item will determine the difficulty of the item world so u take ur group of friends and coop in the dungeon to try to beat the dungeon in the best way and thus getting the best stats on ur unique. so better teams will have better stats on the same unique :)
also the item world will be infinite in the sense that u can always go back there, but it has a finite amount of LEVELS. So , the first time u may clear it at say 80% effectiveness and gain 80% of the max stats that blizzard says, but u can always go back and try to beat ur last run to get the highest stats possible.
Item world works for Disgaea because it's a goofy game. Diablo isn't. The dungeons in Diablo are random in layout but they are still specific places, not just generic nega-space like in Disgaea.
ya its kinda cartoony and anime-ish , is that a word? but i still like the system. Also i think it would be a good idea to have it in ADDITION to the normal random dungeons in diablo. For example; the item world could grant zero exp but be the best way to get the most powerful uniques. It would just be a different facet of the game, kinda like how u hunt down multiple versions of uniques now cuz they have random stats so u try to find say a "perfect" hoz. Well with this u can create ur own "perfect" hoz by ur own actions and skill.
Again, doesn't fit in Diablo, both in theme and in function. Diablo wouldn't let you go Into an Item, because that would just be silly. Also, the Disgaea item world dungeons are a mishmash of random pieces. Diablo's dungeons are random, but they are also thematic and each specific place has it's own look. And besides, you don't really use the item world in Disgaea until the end of the game. No, no item world.
XxSharpNipsxX
25-03-2009, 21:21
i agree completely
One way you could do it, without ending up with super over powered weapons could be to give normal/magic/rare items a (low)% chance to gain an additional prefix or suffix with each kill.
EDIT: One way you could do this is that your weapon (and offensive items - possibly gloves) pick up traits from enemies you kill while defensive items pick up traits from attacks you receive. But not all the time - say when you kill an enemy there is a chance to get an additional prefix or suffix, which is then rolled out of a list relevant to that particular enemy. For example maybe for the 'general' case you can roll an extra 1-10% damage from killing any enemy (out of a basket of bonuses of varying quality and type), but if you kill an 'extra strong' monster there is a chance to roll 10-40% ED included in the possible bonuses. Or if a monster does light damage, or is light enchanted, your weapon gets additional light damage included in the possible rolls.
The number of prefixes and suffixes would be limited, and the quality would be random - you might get "+1 lightning damage" or "+400 lightning damage" or maybe a mod that does nothing useful at all so you would not be guaranteed an ultra killing machine weapon, or an invincible armor (say you get hit with a fire attack, you might have a low % chance to get additional fire resistance) etc etc but say you find a nice rare and use it a lot you might get an additional upgrade from using it rather than using a cookie cutter unique or runeword (or equivalent).
Or say for casting - you might get a random +1 FCR or a +5FCR, but you might instead just get +1Mana.
FlamangoHellfire
07-04-2009, 01:18
Hmm, funny, I just thought up this and posted about it in a different thread.
A little earlier on in the post I saw the idea for living weapons. This could be very cool, especially if they weren't static. What if they evolved or got environmental bonuses? Maybe this could be also just another affix, but these types of weapons could have some sort of leveling system, so you could really get a weapon that was yours. For each 5 levels you use it constantly, you can chose to increase a certain aspect of it's attributes. Another way this could be incorporated would be weapons that have hidden attributes that are unlockable based on the length of use or the environment or the type of enemy that you're battling. And an extension to this idea - weapon specific quests?
Imagine your character, maybe level 20, finds a rusty sword that has some affixes that are nice but nothing special. However if you get on by long enough with this crappy sword, you will at some point run into a lonely merchant or a tome or a drunk somewhere who knows the history of the blade, and if you go to this shrine at this lake in this particular place and dip the blade in the water, it's true form will be revealed (In extension: the resulting weapon's affixes would be tuned to your character based on certain actions you take during the quest) This type of weapon I guess would be like a set item with more depth, I guess you could call it a legendary item. Now, the quest thing is optional, but an item that becomes more powerful over time would be wicked cool, especially if you could customize aspects of it.
I think it is a pretty cool idea in theory, but the reality is that something like this will probably not happen because it would require setting up a system of leveling up for your items. Not to mention each item would have to be gaining different experience which could potentially bog things down. And there are a lot of potential problems that could be in there. What happens if you take off or trade away an item that you have leveled up, does it still keep its new properties.
ManBearPig
14-04-2009, 01:05
As a new feature for D3, I would like the item to evolve. Such that, if you use a sword for some time, it gains additional magic properties. Or it's current magic properties are augmented. The same goes for the other items. Of course, the improvement is directly proportional with the battle experience accumulated during fights, and you have to use an item for a long time to see a major improvement. After a boss fight, for example, the items could gain some special magic property that is in relation with the boss magic specific.
The lore explication is that even the items borrow from their master magical energy, in time. As well from the places and environments that their master takes them. This thing is documented in crystal magic, where the crystals gain more power over time, and if you take them in several places.
This isnt kingsfield :rolleyes: However, I think an idea like this could work and would be pretty interesting.
jakotaco
19-04-2009, 14:59
One way you could do it, without ending up with super over powered weapons could be to give normal/magic/rare items a (low)% chance to gain an additional prefix or suffix with each kill.
e random - you might get "+1 lightning damage" or "+400 lightning damage" or maybe a mod that does nothing useful at all so you would not be guaranteed an ultra killing machine weapon, or an invincible armor (say you get hit with a fire attack, you might have a low % chance to get additional fire resistance) etc etc but say you find a nice rare and use it a lot you might get an additional upgrade from using it rather than using a cookie cutter unique or runeword (or equivalent).
One problem: min/maxing.
-Sorry I can't join you in that region, because I just found a nice weapon and I can't risk getting a bad affix from killing "Unicorn Warriors", I'll have to stay grinding "Zombie Pop Stars" until I have the affix I need.
Other people have had the Idea before.There might even be yet another one somewhere.
http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=704668
and mine
http://forums.diii.net/showthread.php?t=669448
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