View Full Version : Wtf no PVP?
I heard people talking about how blizzard does not want to make classical pvp servers for Diablo3 but more like pvp where you can attack only those players that want to fight you... oO
What ever that sh*t is, I don't call it pvp, that's called dueling. They say pvp can ruin the game experience. My question is how can you talk about game experience if there's no pvp?
I mean I don't want to play the game where I must ask every stupid noob if I can kill him, wtf is that sh*t for? Why should I build my character if I can't use it to kill noobs in game? I don't want to play in single player and do stupid quests, that's boring. I want to play pvp, like in WoW. I don't want to play WoW for next 6 years, I want Diablo3, waiting for this game for so long and now if there is no pvp, wtf am I going to do? go questing? go kill stupid monsters? that's boring man.
If they need to make PVE servers for frp noobs fine, but there are lot of players expecting good PVP experience, so when I connect on battle.net I can go and pwn them, or get pwned, isn't that the point of multiplayer, competition? no?
Anyway, I enjoyed DiabloII even though real pvp never existed, but now its like 2009, you can't make a game without pvp... I mean why the f**k you make a game without pvp?
Any news about this matter? Is there any petition or feedback going on for this?
Oooooookay.
What you're describing is Blizzard's effort to prevent Ganking, and if that's the only fun part for you, then play something else. How are you going to get to kill someone higher than level 3 if you don't do the "boring" dungeons and monsters?
Here's a tip, asshat. Recognize that Diablo 3 is about PvE, and nothing you say is going to change that. If you really want to kill people that bad, try playing "Fury". It's a game where the only way to get XP and loot is to kill other players.
Oooooookay.
What you're describing is Blizzard's effort to prevent Ganking, and if that's the only fun part for you, then play something else. How are you going to get to kill someone higher than level 3 if you don't do the "boring" dungeons and monsters?
Here's a tip, asshat. Recognize that Diablo 3 is about PvE, and nothing you say is going to change that. If you really want to kill people that bad, try playing "Fury". It's a game where the only way to get XP and loot is to kill other players.
Diablo3 is not about pve, Diablo2 was about pve. I just find out that they intend to change pvp/pve a lot. They said they don't like pvp system from Diablo2 and that's enoguh for me to hear.
Also they said there will be no "enable/disable" PvP like in Diablo2, so things change my friend, their games are not for noobs.
In my opinion PVE is for players that are like some sort of lonely wolves in the frozen tundra imagining they are like heroes killing demons and sh*t while they play. oO
...so PVP is for people who like to compete and don't give a sh*t for frp. I guess blizz-north didn't know that when they were working on d2, but now d3 is in the right hands. Afteral PvP is the main reason why WoW is such a success.
Nah, I play only blizz games, no time for those you mentioned.
korialstraz
03-02-2009, 15:23
It sounds more like you want to pk than to PvP. If both people must agree to duel eachother, it will severely limit the use of hacks as well I think. If you encounter someone using hacks, just don't duel him. That way people who use hacks won't get to duel which would take out the fun of using them in the first place.
Also you will no longer be in danger of getting killed by a higher lvl character since you would have to agree on duelling him/her beforehand.
If you so much want to pk others, stick to D2 or WoW or whatever other game you like pking people in.
It sounds more like you want to pk than to PvP. If both people must agree to duel eachother, it will severely limit the use of hacks as well I think. If you encounter someone using hacks, just don't duel him. That way people who use hacks won't get to duel which would take out the fun of using them in the first place.
Also you will no longer be in danger of getting killed by a higher lvl character since you would have to agree on duelling him/her beforehand.
If you so much want to pk others, stick to D2 or WoW or whatever other game you like pking people in.
It has been confirmed already, there will be no "enable/disable" thing from D2, so I don't care about that anymore. Check the latest interviews.
I don't play the game to pk lower lvl players, I never do that in wow, but when I want to kill someone I don't want to ask him if I can kill him, wtf is that sh*t for? I can't play like that.
Ofc I like to finish the quests and kill some monsters as well, but I don't want to do that the whole ****in year, pvp is just so much more exciting.
Maybe a good thing would be to add restrictions only when you try to attack someone who is 5 or more lvls lower than you. That would make some sense and it would stop killing lvling ppls.
But when you see the guy running around like noob at the same or even higher lvl than you, then why should you be restricted to attack him? It's a freedom of choice. If you don't like it then go play dungeon siege staff.
I mean you can't call it pvp if there are such restrictions like "you can't attack me if I don't let you do so" oO It's how noobish PVE works in wow, it's called dueling, not pvp-ing
Knight_Wolf
03-02-2009, 17:08
OP ... Regardless of names ( and PvP means any mode where there is Player Vs Player action which applies to duels as well ) the PvP of D2 came with tons of problems and annoyances so it has to go ... and there will be PvP in D3 in a more controlled way to prevent lots of the things that ruined the D2 PvP gameplay for the majority of causal players ( exploits, hacks, PKers, .. etc etc ) and prevent them from dominating the PvP scene.
If you don't like it, simple .. go play D2 or some FPS shooter where you can blow up noobs as much as you want ... nobody is forcing you to buy D3.
Either way .. we don't know until now how will the PvP in D3 will work, so better save your breath until they confirm how PvP ( or duels if you like ) will work in D3.
PvP means any mode where there is Player Vs Player action which applies to duels as well.
Bravo!! You know the literal meaning of PvP, glad you figured it out, but I am not talking here about literal meaning of PvP.
Dueling is not considered PvP among gamers nor developers, you have dueling in every stupid PvE server, so no, that's not what makes server to be PvP.
This is so funny i just have to reply!...
WoW a succes because of its PvP?...........WHAT?????
WoW is highly PvE based and its PvP suck so much compare to other MMORPGS that focus on their PvP. Open world PvP (which you are describing that you want) is like non existant in WoW. You have to go into an Arena or BG to PvP...that is accepting to getting killed or kill others....A simular way could be done in D3.
I my self are one of the so called "noobs" you are referring to that don't care that much for PvP and playing on a PvE server in wow....and surprise....im really enjoying doing the PvE content...
And i don't get your point if you see a player that is new to the game, maybe the same level as you, but is a slower learner or just jumping around why they absoultly HAVE TO be killed just so you can boost your own ego and telling your self how great you are because you could take down a player that didnt know what he/she was doing in the game?
Let people have fun with the game the way they want to, not everyone enjoys PvPing, ganking, corpse camping etc....This may surprise you, but there actually are people who doesnt enjoy PvP.
So to sum up...You can still have a great PvP system in D3 even tho' you have to enter some kind of area or be PvP active/"flagged"...
- Hdefte
and surprise....im really enjoying doing the PvE content...
This may surprise you, but there actually are people who doesnt enjoy PvP.
You do not surprise me, I know there is a lot of PvE noobs. I said it before...
hahah I knew was going to reply like that.
But yeah im a big noob, have been playing since beta in WoW, have several high levels, dont have a clue what im doing in the game....and its very interesting that you dont comment on the fact that I pointed out your big **** up about saying WoW having succes because of its great great PvP system and *irony on* uber open world PvP.... *irony off".
But please explain to me how the element of competetion you are refering to ealier comes in when you kill a player that you know is going to die, because he is either lower level than you or you can see its a new player to the game?...because to me that doesnt seem like competion at all, more like you getting a stiffy.
hahah I knew was going to reply like that.
But yeah im a big noob, have been playing since beta in WoW, have several high levels, dont have a clue what im doing in the game....and its very interesting that you dont comment on the fact that I pointed out your big **** up about saying WoW having succes because of its great great PvP system and *irony on* uber open world PvP.... *irony off".
WoW having succes because of its great great PvP?
WTF are you talking about?! I never said PVP in wow is great-great, I just said it made success because there is PvP. Without it majority of PvP players would never buy the game and it would have only 5-6 million ppls instead of 11.5 millions.
PvE content is great, but the game would soon become very boring for pvp ppls if there was no pvp.
But please explain to me how the element of competetion you are refering to ealier comes in when you kill a player that you know is going to die, because he is either lower level than you or you can see its a new player to the game?...because to me that doesnt seem like competion at all, more like you getting a stiffy
...said it already, I never attack low lvl ppls. That's because I don't play like noob, when I see higher lvl ppl I attack him, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, and that's what I like. If I know I'm going to win then it's not interesting.
But if I had to ask every ppl to let me attack him, it would suck like hell.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 18:20
Pking never made sense in coop game like Diablo, it was just bad design that only helped griefing and ruining someone's else game. Diablo is a game to relax and slay some monsters and sometimes duel with your friends.
Pking never really added anything to the game, whenever any PVP balance was requested in Blizzard's forum the response from the Devs themselves was: "Diablo is balanced for PVM".
So a non-consensual system like the PK system had no place if the game was first thought as a PVM game. It never made any sense to force people in a closed game, doing a quest or run, into pvping. That character might not be even be built for Pvp or most importantly, that person didnt want to pvp in the first place.
Pking in MMO's make sense after all its a world you are in together with 30.000+ users but in Diablo you create the games, the instances, why could someone just invade your game and force you do something you didnt want? Thats why so many HC games were private games.
Pking was a huge design flaw to a game like Diablo, its just rightfully dead now.
Besides...DUELING > pking.
There is no honor or satisfaction for me in killing random people, especially those built for PvM.
Afteral PvP is the main reason why WoW is such a success.
Your own words....and that is not true at all. And even if it is, it would still be a succes without PvP servers, and then just have BGs and Arenas...Like they are talking about in D3, where you have to be flagged or agree to PvP.
PvE content is great, but the game would soon become very boring for pvp ppls if there was no pvp.
Agree but if D3 lacks so much in the PvP part maybe its not a game for PvP-players? Just like WAR is not a game for PvEers.
...said it already, I never attack low lvl ppls. That's because I don't play like noob, when I see higher lvl ppl I attack him, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, and that's what I like. If I know I'm going to win then it's not interesting.
Just funny because in the opening post you said that when you saw a noob, and i assume that you mean a player that is not playing at your level since you just stated you dont play like one, you just want to kill them. And thats not really what you are saying now?
But with all this being said, there will be a PvP system in D3...It may not be the way you like it or wish it to be because you want to kill people all places all times...then maybe you should find another game.
Because they can make a good rewarding system, with special areas, server types, "arenas" etc etc etc....and that is a PvP system, that many would enjoy. You just can't seem to see past that there maybe will be no open world PvP.
- Hdefte
Pking never made sense in coop game like Diablo, it was just bad design that only helped griefing and ruining someone's else game. Diablo is a game to relax and slay some monsters and sometimes duel with your friends.
Pking never really added anything to the game, whenever any PVP balance was requested in Blizzard's forum the response from the Devs themselves was: "Diablo is balanced for PVM".
So a non-consensual system like the PK system had no place if the game was first thought as a PVM game. It never made any sense to force people in a closed game, doing a quest or run, into pvping. That character might not be even be built for Pvp or most importantly, that person didnt want to pvp in the first place.
Pking in MMO's make sense after all its a world you are in together with 30.000+ users but in Diablo you create the games, the instances, why could someone just invade your game and force you do something you didnt want? Thats why so many HC games were private games.
Pking was a huge design flaw to a game like Diablo, its just rightfully dead now.
I think bnet 2.0 will be much much different. I guess there will be several unique servers you can create or enter [ like pve, pvp, arenas, battlegrounds and related ] that would make everyone satisfied.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 18:35
And how would a PVP server in Diablo work? Diablo isnt a MMO, what will happen there? Anyone can suddenly turn into each other in the middle of a game? A chaotic mess? Even when Jay Wilson said already that PK is already out of diablo, why would they dedicate full servers to a mechanic that was considered out of place in the game?
Why would a game like diablo need seperated servers like a MMO? PVP, PvE, Rp? Its NOT a MMO where you need to filter out people's preferences, its just an hack and slash game...
Even the number of people per game will be little, Jay Wilson said they are satisfied with 4 or 5 people per game, certainly they wont support a single game with 30+ people as it would be chaotic for an isometric ARPG with so much spell effects.
Sorry but Diablo was never really a PvP game, it will be included for sure but the core game was always the PvM, even Diablo 2's PVP was utterly mediocre being it in consesual or non-consensual PVP, we can only hope that Diablo 3 is more sane and balanced.
...non-consensual PVP...
there are laws against that now. like 30 to life, unless you're under 18! :whistling:
Just funny because in the opening post you said that when you saw a noob, and i assume that you mean a player that is not playing at your level since you just stated you dont play like one, you just want to kill them. And thats not really what you are saying now?
They have the same lvl as me so wtf more they want? I can't teach them to play, it's not my problem that they play like noobs and someone has to lose on pvp server, but it doesn't mean I always win. Many times they kill me when I attack the groups, so I don't attack when win is obvious, I usually fight solo against 2 member groups.
I play alliance and many ppls from alliance hate me cause when I'm in their group and they attack the weaker horde group I don't help them out and they get owned by a horde while I watch from the distance.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 18:58
Level means nothing, the character might not be equiped or have the proper skills to PVP. And certainly he/she isnt wrong afterall Diablo is about killing stuff and getting items. PVP is just a side-bonus, it was never a big selling point and PKing even less. With consesual PVP only the ones who are equipped and built for it will agree to duel or someone who has the time to bother PvPing, so its a win-win situation, you get your challenges and the people who are not in the mood for PvP just wont PvP.
Sounds like you like PKing or PvPing in MMOs, it certainly works wonderfully there but here it has no place anymore. Diablo isnt a MMO, its a Coop-hack and slash based on instances and not a huge world with 30000+ users.
Sounds like you like PKing or PvPing in MMOs
Just PvPing since I get killed many times. I'm not one of those 80lvl obsessed rogues sneaking behind you while you are trying to make to lvl10, no man :]] I don't do that.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 19:06
Well good for you! But there were many people like that and certainly very few so said "honorable" Pkers as your noble self. The majority in diablo 2 were coward, griefing and game-ruining jerks, so the death of Pking is certainly a lot more healthy to the game than the return of it.
Uncle_Mike
03-02-2009, 19:11
wtf, double post... deleted
indeed.
I'd really prefer if we kept theorycrafting to the minimum - we only have some hints about how PvP will be in D3 - the game is far from finished.
I'd say it's too early to criticise it all, we also have no basis to assume D3 will be anything like D2 PvP-wise.
PK and PvP are two different things, plenty of people will be happy about PK being removed, not sure if that will happen.
Knight_Wolf
03-02-2009, 19:21
Level means nothing, the character might not be equiped or have the proper skills to PVP. And certainly he/she isnt wrong afterall Diablo is about killing stuff and getting items. PVP is just a side-bonus, it was never a big selling point and PKing even less. With consesual PVP only the ones who are equipped and built for it will agree to duel or someone who has the time to bother PvPing, so its a win-win situation, you get your challenges and the people who are not in the mood for PvP just wont PvP.
Exactly, most people who want PKing get their fun from using their oh-so-uber characters to attack low level characters or people not in the mood for PvP or people who built their characters for PvE not PvP .... where is the competition in that ( and there is also no way to control all that ) !!!
Duels on the other hand would be PvP between people who built their characters to PvP, want to have duels ... and are well prepared for them ... that's COMPETITION. :yes:
Well good for you! But there were many people like that and certainly very few so said "honorable" Pkers as your noble self. The majority in diablo 2 were coward, griefing and game-ruining jerks, so the death of Pking is certainly a lot more healthy to the game than the return of it.
Yup, good point .. making a system that can be abused and exploited then expecting people to play honorably is pure nonsense and down right naive, basic rules need to be enforced over people other wise things will turn into a mess ( as they already did in D2 ... where a group of non-honorable idiots could ruin the game for countless others ).
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Finally i got to say that D3 developers need to also put a better incnetive for people to duel than just collecting "ears", maybe the ability to pick up some gold from the defeated or maybe a single item from the items he/she was wearing.
Well good for you! But there were many people like that and certainly very few so said "honorable" Pkers as your noble self. The majority were coward, griefing and game-ruining jerks, so the death of Pking is certainly a lot more healthy to the game than the return of it.
...but it's not something you can't go trough. I mean idiots pwned me when I started to play, so what? We don't live in paradise. I got to lvl 60, and then I made new character [ dwarf ] on the same server and send him hc items over mail and said to myself something like idiots will not get me this time. Then while I was on the road to the southshore, stupid belf hunter female attacked me somewhere near thandol span, 5 lvl higher than me and I beat the sh*t out of her.
Isn't that fun? I mean without them there would be no joy to pwn such idiots when they so confidently attack you.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 19:26
There could be some random match-up arena, with PVP-item rewards or a mod that gets a certain number of +damage on your weapon as you rack-up PVP wins, whatever, even if there was no incentive it could still be fun to play PVP with your friends. All it really needs is a level dedicated and balanced for it, not an open-area mess like the blood moor, it needs proper spawn points and enough place for cover and tactics. If that is already in, its already far far faaarrrr superior than Diablo2's PVP was.
...but it's not something you can't go trough. I mean idiots pwned me when I started to play, so what? We don't live in paradise. I got to lvl 60, and then I made new character [ dwarf ] on the same server and send him hc items over mail and said to myself something like idiots will not get me this time. Then while I was on the road to the southshore, stupid belf hunter female attacked me somewhere near thandol span, 5 lvl higher than me and I beat the sh*t out of her.
Isn't that fun? I mean without them there would be no joy to pwn such idiots when they so confidently attack you.
Yes its certainly something you can through. In a MMO... not in a Diablo game. Im fine with that in a MMO, infact I do even have my own share of griefing with my lv 80 rogue on WoW and it certainly helps to shape the world like that but Diablo isnt a game built for that. Again, at its very core its a PvM hack and slash game, forcing people to PVP out of the blue and with no option its just an asinine design, in a MMO its a huge world, you can go to somewhere else, you can call a game master, etc... but in Diablo people dont want to be forced to PVP by people who are built for that.
My point is: Pking in a MMO is fine, you are going through the well-stabilished rules of the game and its integral to the feeling of the world and overall rivalry between the factions. In Diablo 2, Pking only served to be a jerk and ruin other people's quests and progress.
Yes its certainly something you can through. In a MMO... not in a Diablo game. Im fine with that in a MMO, infact I do even have my own share of griefing with my lv 80 rogue on WoW and it certainly helps to shape the world like that but Diablo isnt a game built for that. Again, at its very core its a PvM hack and slash game, forcing people to PVP out of the blue and with no option its just an asinine design, in a MMO its a huge world, you can go to somewhere else, you can call a game master, etc... but in Diablo people dont want to be forced to PVP by people who are built for that.
You got the point, but still I want to see strong PvP features. I don't like the fact "all forced to behave perfectly" I like when noobs attack me and then I pwn them, that's what I like, so at least to have an option to play some sort of HC-squared character which everyone can attack. But when they do attack him there's no turning back, one must die to leave the battle mode. That way HC characters would be like some sort of elite ppls in Diablo gaming. I want that, don't want to be called pwe noob, that sux
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 19:54
PVP is returning probably with full maps/arena pits dedicated for it so certainly it will be more deep and will have more support and thought to it unlike D2's PVP system was just the messy blood moor.
But PKing is dead, so the only way to really die in HC is to monsters now as I believe that even consensual dueling will just drop players health to 1 and the duel ends, like WoW. Unless some crazy guys really want to agree to duel to death for the death of their characters, which sounds poetic and manly but certainly noone will risk their characters, their dozens of hours spent on the character for a stupid duel for some e-peen status that no one will care in an instanced game where there will be no audience for the "epic duel of death".
And sorry to burst your bubble but Diablo is a PvE game, its Pking features were an abomination of the development team's bad design decisions (which showed their level of sanity and logic when they made hellgate london, now its rightfully dead because of so much bad design decisions that plagued the game). I guess we will all be "PvE noobs" as the nature of the game is just that, so dont worry, you wont be alone.
Uncle_Mike
03-02-2009, 20:03
Unless some crazy guys really want to agree to duel to death for the death of their characters, which sounds poetic and manly but certainly noone will risk their characters...
Given this forum's post history it seems that there are people interested in that in HC. Dropping to 1 health is as far from hardcore as it gets :)
There is no debate here that there is demand for PvP in HC community as well, the most heated debates were about non-consensual PK attempts.
Is there some kind of equivalent of hardcore mode in WoW? I've never played it.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 20:06
No there isnt any form of hardcore mode in WoW.
A duel to the death is certainly, as I said, poetic. But so very few people would actually agree to do it that probably they just wont bother.
I read all these comments and I don't get them...
What if some noob starts to provoke you by saying "I love ur mom" and you can't kill him? Is that what you want, to give protection to idiots? Even worse, what if you drop an item on the floor and idiot comes and pick it up. What you're gonna to do? F**kin beg for your lost item?!
Uncle_Mike
03-02-2009, 20:33
I read all these comments and I don't get them...
What if some noob starts to provoke you by saying "I love ur mom" and you can't kill him? Is that what you want, to give protection to idiots? Even worse, what if you drop an item on the floor and idiot comes and pick it up. What you're gonna to do? F**kin beg for your lost item?!
You've already received an infraction for bypassing the word filter - perhaps it's time to read the forum rules?
What if an idiot who wants to PK you joins your game and insults you while you're a PvE kind of person. he not only has the right to insult you but also to PK you? If PvP is consensual you flame back, squelch him, and continue to play. If he has the option to attack you anyway your game is ruined.
Blizzard has to take into account both of the above views and try to balance it.
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 20:37
If you drop the item on the ground he wont be able to see it as everyone now has individual drops. Plus if he picked your item, you could still kill him but not get the item back so what would be the point? He could just leave the game with your item anyway.... might as well ask for your item back as you have more chances to retrieve it, as opposed to zero chances with pking him.
And if someone says "I love your mom", well ignore him... who cares seriously. He could just stand on the town being unkillable anyway and there is a mute choice built in-game too...
Dont try to bring PKing as if it was something healthy to the game, it wasnt. People didnt use PKing to solve those 2 minor issues you listed, people used it to grief, cowardly attack someone not built for pvp or lower lvl and ruin other people's games. You say give protection to idiots I say the lack of pking is to dim the number of way idiots can ruin other people's games.
Pking solved nothing and accomplished nothing, dont try to bring it as some kind of "protection against idiots" pking only actually supported idiots.
Knight_Wolf
03-02-2009, 21:21
No there isnt any form of hardcore mode in WoW.
A duel to the death is certainly, as I said, poetic. But so very few people would actually agree to do it that probably they just wont bother.
Like i said, given the incentive people will fight to the death ... being able to pick up an item from the fallen player + gold + achievements titles would make HC duels more appealing :yes:
I read all these comments and I don't get them...
What if some noob starts to provoke you by saying "I love ur mom" and you can't kill him? Is that what you want, to give protection to idiots? Even worse, what if you drop an item on the floor and idiot comes and pick it up. What you're gonna to do? F**kin beg for your lost item?!
Seriously .... now you are changing excuses .. first it was competition (which isn't really the case) now it is this ... well let's see:-
-If some insulted you you can:-
1-act immature and insult him back
2-Ignore him
3-Challenge him to duel saying "are you man enough :crazyeyes:"
4-Exit the game
5-In case Blizz adds some control functions .. ban him if it is your game .. vote to kick him or mute him.
As for the item ... just make sure no one is around one you drop your items to the ground .. simple.
If you drop the item on the ground he wont be able to see it as everyone now has individual drops. Plus if he picked your item, you could still kill him but not get the item back so what would be the point? He could just leave the game with your item anyway.... might as well ask for your item back as you have more chances to retrieve it, as opposed to zero chances with pking him.
Allow me to correct something ... the drops are indivisual to you as long as you didn't touch them .. once you pick up an item and drop it back it will be visible to everyone .. this has been confirmed in one of the previous interviews.
Either way .. like you said .. Pking the item thief will not return the item.
teh_Thrasher
03-02-2009, 21:32
ugh i cant take it anymore ive read about one page of this and i agree with the OP. there needs to be PvP. everyone is talking about d2 and NOT d3. oh boohoo this and that yeah yeah the pvp wasnt the best in d2 but the design is being changed and there wont be hacks or dupes (hopefully) so fighting someone ur own level should be just fine with the stats being more equal and people not having uber twinked gear from endless mf runs or buying gear offline (mostly caused by the dupers)
there should be an option for pve only so those people can all party up and be friends. and another option for real world diablo. where there are some mean people that like to kill other heroes.
just make it so its not an instant hostile so u cant be next to someone and go hostile and mash their face. but give it like 5-10 seconds so they can run away or leave the game. or get ready whatever.
oh and i dont condone Pkers... (in d2...) those that maphack and just teleport to u and instant dead u from off screen or tppk u. but when there is someone in the game thats being a jerk to everyone and wont leave so ur friend can come in. u should have the option to go hostile and lay the smack down on them. just my 2 cents
Kiroptus
03-02-2009, 21:34
Like i said, given the incentive people will fight to the death ... being able to pick up an item from the fallen player + gold + achievements titles would make HC duels more appealing :yes:
Its a great idea in theory but people would abuse. Lets say... an Hardcore lv 80 ear is worth a lot, you can trade it for some godly pvp item if you have enough of them. Certainly a clan would create lots of characters, rush it (as possible as the game will allow it, certainly rushing will be seriously nerfed) and create ASAP a "sacrifice character" for someone in your clan. Granted lvling was never too slow in a fast paced game like diablo, it could even not take THAT long, plus with the support of a party it will be safe as well.
Hardly people will take a "honorable duel to the death" if it means sacrificing all the hours and items spent on a character. Probably the character will get naked, transfering his items to another acc and then, be sacrificed for his precious ear.
I still believe that PVPing in HC will just mean "drop player's health to 1". Otherwise HC will just look like a mode stripped out of PVP, because even with rewards, no one will risk their characters, items and hours spent, they would create safe "sacrificial sheep" to have their ears, the only reason people lost characters to players in diablo 2 was because of Pking but with consensual pvp, people wont bother the risk at all.
ugh i cant take it anymore ive read about one page of this and i agree with the OP. there needs to be PvP. everyone is talking about d2 and NOT d3. oh boohoo this and that yeah yeah the pvp wasnt the best in d2 but the design is being changed and there wont be hacks or dupes (hopefully) so fighting someone ur own level should be just fine with the stats being more equal and people not having uber twinked gear from endless mf runs or buying gear offline (mostly caused by the dupers)
there should be an option for pve only so those people can all party up and be friends. and another option for real world diablo. where there are some mean people that like to kill other heroes.
just make it so its not an instant hostile so u cant be next to someone and go hostile and mash their face. but give it like 5-10 seconds so they can run away or leave the game. or get ready whatever.
oh and i dont condone Pkers... (in d2...) those that maphack and just teleport to u and instant dead u from off screen or tppk u. but when there is someone in the game thats being a jerk to everyone and wont leave so ur friend can come in. u should have the option to go hostile and lay the smack down on them. just my 2 cents
This is the problem with you people that support PK in a game like diablo, you think it has benefits, it doesnt. You want your friend to come to the game? Just create a new one, or if the guy who you are pking wants to be a jerk as well he can just stay in town afk, occupying your friend's slot anyway, or just go make some quest on somewhere you wont find him just to pass the time. See? Pking didnt solve your problem at all.
And stop with the PvE and PvP realm things, this isnt a MMO, its an ARPG, I know it has been a long time since you all seen an online ARPG but remember: There is no need to qualify servers as PvE or PVP, the game is just ONE. Pking has no place in a game where Coop and questing are the core, there is no need to induce rivalry between factions in a ever changing world because THERE ISNT ONE, its an instanced game with 4-5 people in each game, there is no factions and no rivalry, just some people creating a group to smash monsters for the items and once in a while PvP each other just for fun.
Give up the fight for PK, it has already been lost. The lead designer already decided to take it out and certainly he wont put a PK server just for it.
korialstraz
03-02-2009, 22:18
It has been confirmed already, there will be no "enable/disable" thing from D2, so I don't care about that anymore. Check the latest interviews.
I don't play the game to pk lower lvl players, I never do that in wow, but when I want to kill someone I don't want to ask him if I can kill him, wtf is that sh*t for? I can't play like that.
Ofc I like to finish the quests and kill some monsters as well, but I don't want to do that the whole ****in year, pvp is just so much more exciting.
Maybe a good thing would be to add restrictions only when you try to attack someone who is 5 or more lvls lower than you. That would make some sense and it would stop killing lvling ppls.
But when you see the guy running around like noob at the same or even higher lvl than you, then why should you be restricted to attack him? It's a freedom of choice. If you don't like it then go play dungeon siege staff.
I mean you can't call it pvp if there are such restrictions like "you can't attack me if I don't let you do so" oO It's how noobish PVE works in wow, it's called dueling, not pvp-ing
Last time I check you had to have mutual agreement if you wanted to duel, if it's not like that now I can't say, and if it is or not like that when the game is released no one knows.
What's so difficult with asking for a duel? You say you want fair duels and a good competition, so you jump people in hope of killing them? I'm sorry but in my eyes that is pk which imo is a bad form for pvp. Duelling>pk.
So when you are out killing monsters you suddenly think "oh hey I want to pk!" and jump on your teammates? I still can't see the big trouble with asking someone of they want to duel.
I don't believe lvl restrictions on duelling works well in a game like Diablo. As you said yourself, killing higher lvl people is fun, but if there is a restriction to it, you wouldn't be able to. I don't mind duelling both higher and lower lvl people so long as they agree to it. In D2 duel games I usually only attacked people who attacked me first, and if I wanted to duel someone in specific I asked (with a few exceptions ofc).
As someone pointed out, why would you want to duel a noob? You've said you want good competition, beating the crap out of new or not as good players isn't good competition. Either I don't get your meaning of noob or you're contradicting yourself.
PvP=Player vs Player. In other words mutual agreement on duelling is PvP even if you don't like it. And what's so noobish about PvE? What's so wrong with duels? Both parts are ready for a fight and makes for even better competition. Is that not what you seek?
The way you describe what you want is more like you getting a fully equiped pvp char to pk pve players. If so perhaps D3 isn't for you... or maybe it is. It all depends on how the whole PvP system works when the game is released.
Who knows, maybe we can create specific game types similar to realms in WoW. You can go around killing people at sight, while us others who want a fair fight stay in duelling games. Anyway it's not worth whining about a system we know nothing about.
Knight_Wolf
03-02-2009, 22:46
Its a great idea in theory but people would abuse. Lets say... an Hardcore lv 80 ear is worth a lot, you can trade it for some godly pvp item if you have enough of them. Certainly a clan would create lots of characters, rush it (as possible as the game will allow it, certainly rushing will be seriously nerfed) and create ASAP a "sacrifice character" for someone in your clan. Granted lvling was never too slow in a fast paced game like diablo, it could even not take THAT long, plus with the support of a party it will be safe as well.
Hardly people will take a "honorable duel to the death" if it means sacrificing all the hours and items spent on a character. Probably the character will get naked, transfering his items to another acc and then, be sacrificed for his precious ear.
I actually didn't mention any lv.80 "ears" .. instead the whole "ears" affair needs to go away into oblivion.
What will replace it is the ability to pick up one item from your fallen enemy .. once you kill your opponent you get a window with his equipped items and you have 15 seconds to pick an item as a spoil of war.
Add gold and honor titles and we have enough incentive to make people fight duels even in HC ... so the clan "sacrificial lamp" trick you mentioned is of no use to people now since no "ears" will be involved in PvP :crazyeyes:
ugh i cant take it anymore ive read about one page of this and i agree with the OP. there needs to be PvP. everyone is talking about d2 and NOT d3. oh boohoo this and that yeah yeah the pvp wasnt the best in d2 but the design is being changed and there wont be hacks or dupes (hopefully) so fighting someone ur own level should be just fine with the stats being more equal and people not having uber twinked gear from endless mf runs or buying gear offline (mostly caused by the dupers)
Sorry ... but i have to totally disagree .. no system is perfect (i.e there will always be cheaters and hackers even in D3)... and allowing PvP with no incentive from both sides is very exploitable and open the doors wide for all sorts of hacks and cheats to ruin the game for MANY players .... the only way is to avoid this plague is to make the system less exploitable.
That's the wise design choice any game designer will take ... it's for the good of the game and the majority of casual players ... live with it.
-------------------------------------------------
D2 PvP Guys ... i can't really seem to understand your logic .. it is just self-condtidactory.
If two like minded hardcore people want to do PvP:-
Then for all eternity they can PvP and duel the hell out of each other since they both want the duel.
So there is no problem if both sides of the duel agree on the fight .. that's truly competitive .. and the Devs suggested PvP dueling system in D3 will work greatly for them.
Now what if one guy wants to PvP someone and the chosen victim is:-
-A low level player ( Noob ) .................................................. .............. uncompetitive and cheap
-A high level player unwilling and not ready to have a PvP fight now .......... uncompetitive and cheap
-A high level player using a character built for PvE ................................. uncompetitive and cheap
-A high level player willing to have a PvP fight ........................................ competitive :thumbup:
-Not to mention the unfairness that stems from using hacks, dupes and cheats.
So it seems out of all the cases the only competitive case is when both players involved want and agree to have a duel (and there will be many of them) ... which will definitely work well with a duel system.
-------------------------------------
Long story short ... all those who want PvP and Pking back like it was in D2 don't give a damn about competitiveness whatsoever.
The simple answer is that the designers at Blizzard aren't trying to appeal to players like you, who only find enjoyment in "killing noobs".
They're pretty smart.
Sorry the way you phrased your post reeks of, "I WNT TO PWN NOOBZORS ROFL." As opposed to, "I really enjoy high quality player vs. player fighting in this game."
Last time I check you had to have mutual agreement if you wanted to duel, if it's not like that now I can't say, and if it is or not like that when the game is released no one knows.
What's so difficult with asking for a duel? You say you want fair duels and a good competition, so you jump people in hope of killing them? I'm sorry but in my eyes that is pk which imo is a bad form for pvp. Duelling>pk.
So when you are out killing monsters you suddenly think "oh hey I want to pk!" and jump on your teammates? I still can't see the big trouble with asking someone of they want to duel.
I don't believe lvl restrictions on duelling works well in a game like Diablo. As you said yourself, killing higher lvl people is fun, but if there is a restriction to it, you wouldn't be able to. I don't mind duelling both higher and lower lvl people so long as they agree to it. In D2 duel games I usually only attacked people who attacked me first, and if I wanted to duel someone in specific I asked (with a few exceptions ofc).
As someone pointed out, why would you want to duel a noob? You've said you want good competition, beating the crap out of new or not as good players isn't good competition. Either I don't get your meaning of noob or you're contradicting yourself.
PvP=Player vs Player. In other words mutual agreement on duelling is PvP even if you don't like it. And what's so noobish about PvE? What's so wrong with duels? Both parts are ready for a fight and makes for even better competition. Is that not what you seek?
The way you describe what you want is more like you getting a fully equiped pvp char to pk pve players. If so perhaps D3 isn't for you... or maybe it is. It all depends on how the whole PvP system works when the game is released.
Who knows, maybe we can create specific game types similar to realms in WoW. You can go around killing people at sight, while us others who want a fair fight stay in duelling games. Anyway it's not worth whining about a system we know nothing about.
It's just too sterile and unnatural to play like "hey please can you let me attack you?" I mean it's just stupid, there is no talk with the enemy.
Dueling is for friends, I can ask a friend "hey lets duel" but I don't want to have such conversation with some random noobs. I want it to be a little bit more realistic.
I mean It's cool to never know what will happen in next few mins, who will you come across with, what if some pro hides in a cave and so on... there must be some risk.
I don't care, if PvE ppls want to run around and kill monsters whole ****in year, I wish you fun in that, but give us pvp players option to host servers where we can beat the hell out of each other at free will. You don't have to join such servers, you can join classical server where everyone must be gentlemen and ladies ( "can I ask you for a duel?" - "yes ofc, I'm flattered." ) oO ...ok, I guess I am missing something... is the world becoming pink?
So only thing I want is the opportunity to host a game where all are free to do what ever they decide to do, or to have something like a system where you can chose between pvp and classical characters. Classical would be protected by "enable/disable" features while pvp characters would not be protected by those features and will always have to be ready to protect themselves, so I guess some sort of HC characters.
The simple answer is that the designers at Blizzard aren't trying to appeal to players like you, who only find enjoyment in "killing noobs".
They're pretty smart.
Sorry the way you phrased your post reeks of, "I WNT TO PWN NOOBZORS ROFL." As opposed to, "I really enjoy high quality player vs. player fighting in this game."
.. . . you know I was reading your post twice, and still don't get it.
designers at Blizzard aren't trying to appeal to players like you, who only find enjoyment in "killing noobs"
Wtf are you talking about?!@ You think they care about the reasons why you play their games? They care for those who make majority in their audience.
Sweet mannered players like you are the minority. They don't care about what minority thinks, they care about how big is the number of pvp players, because they are smart, like you just said.
I am not going to make of myself an angel, I say what I feel with no pretending and that's all.
Kiroptus
04-02-2009, 04:34
I think you are mistaking Diablo for some heavy PvP game. Diablo is a PvE game, sorry to burst your bubble.
And actually, the minority is actually people wanting Pk to be back in Diablo 3. When PK was announced to be removed there was a huge approval from a lot of the community and colunists of this site, of course there was whine of a certain minority later but they all had no arguments to bring such a grieving mechanic back.
Its already a lost battle, pk lost, sorry :( There are no arguments to support its return in a PvE instanced-game like Diablo. If you want to PvP someone, you will have to ask, otherwise everyone would start to pk each other to ruin other people's game and everyone who would want to play the game would need to host private games.
There is no argument, you should give up on it.
teh_Thrasher
04-02-2009, 06:49
yeah yeah we understand the battle is lost but we can still grieve about it.
to quote FPS Doug, "what can i say, theres nothing like the rush of hunting people down and killing em" LOL oh man that was a great episode.
im ok with the removal of hacked pking. but there was nothing wrong with hostiling and having to find your victim. they always have time to exit the game, its their choice to stay or leave. i know theres going to be some comeback about well maybe they dont want a player killer in their game... put on some option in the game creation menu that restricts hostiling.. thats all u really have to do instead of getting rid of it entirely.
maybe even give the hostility thing a countdown... player such and such will be turning hostile to you in X seconds. dun dun dun. (giving u time to prepare)
Kiroptus
04-02-2009, 08:12
An option to turn it off when you create games?
The option should be:
on/off - Allow a random pker to enter your game to ruin your quest and group
It will always be turned off... unless the one who creates the game wants to attract people to pk them, which in case people will just leave and join the thousands of games where this option was turned off as default.
And its not about preparing, its about forcing people to do what they dont want or they cant if their character isnt build for PvPing.
What you have to understand is that people dont want a grieving enviroment, if they have the option to play in a grief-free enviroment they will do. So why the hell would Pk still be bought back from its grave if the majority of the players dont want it?
No matter how you put, Pk added nothing good to the game. It forced people to leave, it made exploits with hacks and was just a tool to annoy and ruin games. Its rightfully dead.
korialstraz
04-02-2009, 08:29
After that last post by Kiroptus I really don't have more to add.
PK is dead 'cause it was a system easily exploited both by hacks and to ruin the game for others. Bringing it back would be idiotic.
saint_of_killers
04-02-2009, 09:02
I get the feeling Durin has never played a diablo game...
also, my brain hurts.
korialstraz
04-02-2009, 10:51
I get the feeling Durin has never played a diablo game...
I get the feeling he's the kind of guy who enters PvE games with a PvP char to wtfpwnzor all the PvE noobish players who only play PvE day in and day out, which makes him feel better than them since he just beat them in a competetive fight...
...so PVP is for people who like to compete and don't give a sh*t for frp. I guess blizz-north didn't know that when they were working on d2, but now d3 is in the right hands. Afteral PvP is the main reason why WoW is such a success.
Half of the people who play diablo II hate wow.
and now I will stop responding to threads I don't read.
Half of the people who play diablo II hate wow.
Yes but the other half of people love WoW so you must give something to them, because blizz does not want to make Diablo3 just for one half of their audience.
I get the feeling Durin has never played a diablo game...
You think I would care about Diablo3 if I never played Diablo before? Use your head a little bit.
I get the feeling he's the kind of guy who enters PvE games with a PvP char to wtfpwnzor all the PvE noobish players who only play PvE day in and day out, which makes him feel better than them since he just beat them in a competetive fight...
What are you talking about? I just want free gameplay, I don't want to play 5 years against computer AI, that will become so ****in boring after 2 months. It was exciting back in 2000, but now it's like 2009 player vs computer is dying. How can there be any game excitement if no one can kill you, if there is no risk? You want to tell me that PvE is risky? Come on you can kill diablo at lvl 25 anytime, not to mention that 90% of players usually go for him at lvl 30-35. So PvE is no-challenge, no challenge at all, and even if it was, it's not live, when you kill him you just changed the variables in stupid software, nothing more.
I love situations like when noobs attack me thinking they will kill me because of their higher lvl and then I beat the hell out of them. Or when 60-80 lvl idiots come to 10-15 lvl zone to PK, I go there and they run back like morons. And so on and so on. So in wow there are infinite situations that can happen, and every time it's different, because all are allowed to do everything. I can interact with live people in billions of different ways. Against AI you have only one scenario <<< boring!!!!
AkumaSlayer
04-02-2009, 13:59
Durin, you can still own noobs, or whatever. For example, a higher level character might think he can kill you, so he will declare hostility. All you have to do is accept the declaration and then you can kill him. It's only one extra step.
Instant hostility is gone for good, you can thank griefers for that.
korialstraz
04-02-2009, 15:04
@Durin: If you took your time to properly read my post I never once suggested you play PvM (I wrote PvE earlier, though I meant PvM, sorry for the confusion) for 5 years or more. I wrote how you come across to me, which wasn't even related to PvM at all...
@Durin: If you took your time to properly read my post I never once suggested you play PvM (I wrote PvE earlier, though I meant PvM, sorry for the confusion) for 5 years or more. I wrote how you come across to me, which wasn't even related to PvM at all...
How can you get to lvl 80 if you don't PvM? Ofc I do PvM, you must to PvM if you want to be able to PvP. But all that PvM lose a meaning if there is no PvP where you are supposed to use the experience and gear that you got from PvM. I mean PvM without PvP is nothing more than a "lose time", you play years for nothing just to defeat some units controlled by AI. Again I say, Diablo3 will have strong PvP, it's complete nonsense to develop PvE game.
I remember back in late 2002, they announced that PvP in WoW will be restricted by specific zones, in about 25% of them you could attack and in about 75% of them you could not, and just few months after that stupid announcement they figured out that such idea really was a stupid idea so then they announced the next one "PvP/PvE servers" and since then they didn't change that.
So I think Diablo3 is going to have a lot of ideas, but in the end they will do what they always do, competition is the most important issue for them cause blizz is leading e-sport developer, so PvP is very important to them.
TalicZealot
04-02-2009, 15:41
Why should I build my character if I can't use it to kill noobs in game? That is the noobiest behaivor there is. Blizzard just helps people like me, who hate players like you. For me PvP is about the thrill of fighting someone just as good or beter than you and beating him with skill. You are a noob! Nevertheless.. nothing personal.
That is the noobiest behaivor there is. Blizzard just helps people like me, who hate players like you. For me PvP is about the thrill of fighting someone just as good or beter than you and beating him with skill. You are a noob! Nevertheless.. nothing personal.
Have you even read my next few posts? Most of these noobs I pwn are higher or the same lvl as me and usually in groups of 2-3 players vs me solo.
I guess you are one of these noobs, I mean how can you lose in group vs solo player? I don't want to make assumption but you just said you hate pros like me. That can tell you something.
It's not my fault that 90% of wow players are retards. I mean If I'm in the group of 2-3 ppls I can't lose vs solo player no matter what. Imagine what a noob you have to be to get owned together with your friends by one ppl?! oO
I mean such players should stop playing games
TalicZealot
04-02-2009, 17:04
For me all people who use the words 'pro' and 'noob' the way you do have serious issues and can only harm gaming in general. Do not look forward to seeing another of my posts in your threads ..it's clear there's no point in talking to you.
Knight_Wolf
04-02-2009, 17:27
Have you even read my next few posts? Most of these noobs I pwn are higher or the same lvl as me and usually in groups of 2-3 players vs me solo.
And you want us to assume that no one will exploit this and that we won't have two or three players ganging up on newcomers and ruining their game ... sorry .. you failed ... exploits are exploits ... they need to be abolished ... simple and clear. :coffee:
For me all people who use the words 'pro' and 'noob' the way you do have serious issues and can only harm gaming in general. Do not look forward to seeing another of my posts in your threads ..it's clear there's no point in talking to you.
run away from me like all those noobs, that's what I like.
...and there is something you should know, I don't care if you don't like me. Noobs live to hate pros, that's their purpose in gaming, to be owned, they are like living creeps waiting for pros to kill them.
korialstraz
04-02-2009, 18:24
How can you get to lvl 80 if you don't PvM? Ofc I do PvM, you must to PvM if you want to be able to PvP. But all that PvM lose a meaning if there is no PvP where you are supposed to use the experience and gear that you got from PvM. I mean PvM without PvP is nothing more than a "lose time", you play years for nothing just to defeat some units controlled by AI. Again I say, Diablo3 will have strong PvP, it's complete nonsense to develop PvE game.
I remember back in late 2002, they announced that PvP in WoW will be restricted by specific zones, in about 25% of them you could attack and in about 75% of them you could not, and just few months after that stupid announcement they figured out that such idea really was a stupid idea so then they announced the next one "PvP/PvE servers" and since then they didn't change that.
So I think Diablo3 is going to have a lot of ideas, but in the end they will do what they always do, competition is the most important issue for them cause blizz is leading e-sport developer, so PvP is very important to them.
Again you missed my point, but that's ok since you've missed the point of many others in this thread as well. I'll try to put it simple though. My view of you=the guy who bring a PvP char to a PvM game to "pwn noobs" or as you call it get a competetive challange fighting PvM geared players with a PvP char. Not sure how you call that fair, but taking D2 as an example a PvP oriented char could take on 7 PvM people and easily walk away with over half life like it was a walk in the park. Call it competetive, I call it ruining for those people who enjoy playing PvM. OMG! Yes I said it, people do enjoy PvM over PvP, and some people have almost never even done PvP because the idea of it doesn't appeal to them. Now if you are able to, imagine you are one of those people playing in a game with a couple others... and someone who loves PvP join with his PvP character (with me so far? I hope so) and kill you and the group you are in. I don't think you'd like that (assuming you are able to place yourself in that position). Just because you PvM doesn't make you a noob, and generalizing people like that, calling them noobs and wanting to pwn them is not in my mind a fair or competetive fight.
Again you refer to WoW for your idea of a PvP system that works, but it seems you fail to realize D3 won't be an MMO. In fact from what I gathered listening to different interviews D3 will be more co-op/teamwork based than D2 ever was. I'm all for an option on game creation to enable something like "PvM" "PvP" and "Duelling" for example. PvM=No duel/pvp/pk whatever you want to call it, PvP=Free for all duels without an enable/disable hostility button just crazy killing from everyone and duelling=enable/disable hostility. And if that's the case I highly suspect a lot of BM people and hackers from D2 will be in PvP games while the people who want competetive GM duels will be in duelling games while at the same time the people you call noobs hang around in PvM games.
When we're talking about e-sports, the D2 franchise never aimed for that. SC was and still as an excellent e-sport game, not sure about WoW but I can see that one as well to some extent, and I'm sure SC2 will have a lot of focus on balance to make it a very good game for e-sports. PvM oriented games is not however suited as an e-sport game.
I mean such players should stop playing games
Assuming you got my point above on my view of what kind of player you are then this should make sense... players like you should stop playing game.
...and there is something you should know, I don't care if you don't like me. Noobs live to hate pros, that's their purpose in gaming, to be owned, they are like living creeps waiting for pros to kill them.
Usually I would think of noob as someone unwilling to learn more about a game to improve their character and become better players, though in this thread I'll assume you mean noob as in someone playing PvM and therefore is entitled to unwillingly being owned in PvP because some jackass thinks it's his right to exterminate groups of PvM players on his PvP char...
Uncle_Mike
04-02-2009, 18:53
fact of the day: don't feed the troll :wave:
:closed:
Durin: see you in 3 days, please read the rules and follow them if you want to see d3 being released as a member of diii.net forums.
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