An important note on Summoning.

[Grug]

There's been some confusion I want to clear up. There is a difference between "Summoning" and "Pets" when it comes to RPGs. Summoning is calling any creature to fight for you, like the Witch Doctor's Toads or Bats. The Mongrels are also summoned, but they are Pets because they stick around. In Final Fantasy, certain casters can Summon powerful spirits like Ifrit or Bahamut. They do a powerful attack and then leave. If they don't stick around, they're not Pets. Similarly, the Toads are summoned, but they merely hop around and eventually pop. Not pets. Mongrels will follow you indefinitely and fight on their own. Pets. See the difference? So that means that saying the WD uses Summoning magic does not mean he is a Pet class.

[Mad Mantis]

Why get into semantics?

[akboy]

Why not just call the toads and bats 'spells'? You could say the D2 Sorc summoned lightning bolts and meteors from the sky and hydras from the ground, but we didn't call that summoning magic.

[Grug]

But it is summoning in the popular sense. Hydra and Golem both summon creatures, but are very different. If you just call the bats "spells" people will get confused. Hence, a distinction needs to be made.

By Summoning, I don't mean Gameplay, I mean style. I don't mean that all his powers are to make pets. I mean that most of his powers are achieved by summoning creatures. It's a Fluff thing. Pets are a Crunch thing.

[Valmy]

For me summoning is the same as pets. You summon them and they reminded summoned, moving, attacking and so on. They got their life, their defense, etc.

For me bats, locust and frogs are just spells graphically changed, but never summoning.
Sorry, but I agree with akboy. For me are just spells, and not summons as long as I don't see a square with his name in the upper left corner. And they will never work as summons, because they are not (IMO). You can buff your minions/pets/summons, but you won't never buff your own spells, like locust, firebats or frogs. It's just a spell, Grug (read the PS before feeling angry heheh).


I'm pretty sure if there exist items like unique jewels rainbow facets or items affecting spells and not summons in diablo3, they will affect bats and frogs and locust because they are considered as spells, and they won't affect mongrels because they are considered summons or pets or minions (the same). Same with auras. You won't cast an aura affecting your spells like bats or locust, but you can cast an aura or buff affecting your summons.

Just my opinion. Sorry but for me locust, frogs, summons, volcanos, twisters and so on... they are not summons. They are spells.

If you just call the bats "spells" people will get confused. Hence, a distinction needs to be made.

I can't agree
Really the confusion comes if you call summons to firebats or locust swarm, or frogs. If you call them spells (like they are IMO) then just nobody are confused I think. Perhaps I'm wrong.













PS: I think "grammaticaly" you're correct. A summon is a creature or spirit or something you invoke. You're true here. But I think in terms of role playing game and specially in diablo terms they're just spells. I'm pretty sure too if a WD got a skill telling: "Summon power: increase the damage of all your summons by 50%" it will only affect the damage of mongrels and similar creatures, and not the spells.

Not trying to discuss here, I hope you understand I'm not trying to being hostile, lol. Just giving my opinion here, I'm sure each one, like you or me got his own opinion about this issue.


PS2: a bit offtopic here: by the way, about FF... it depends on which FF you are talking about. In some FF it's not a spell like you are saying; for example in FFX it's a real summon ad not only a spell, and he has his own skills and attacks: you can receive and learn more attacks if you wish, more magics, customize his HP and he remains summoned to the end of the battle if you wish, while your 3 characters leaves the battle and then it's a turns-combat: in one side the enemies, and in the other side, the summoned until someone die or you decide to quit your summon.




On topic again, I think is just a matter of language or semantic. I think 99% of people just say spells if they're talking about firebats or locust, and summon/pets/minions. Perhaps bad semantic, but I think it's the correct way in a Diablo game. If you search in some forums, almost everyone agree in call summon just to mongrels, and they are saying the WD only has one summon revealed yet. I agree with this affirmation too.

[Midoxp]

well here is my opinion about the pets can have level same as character and by killing more mobs the pets get more Experience , more level and more stronger

My Suggestion there is no harm if the pets have one or two skills for the pets like increase magic resistance for the character while the pets is summed

About the WD creatures the advanced of the creatures deplaned on the WD skill lvl has and I believe the creature has no skills at all

Sorry my English is too bad but I hope you get the idea

[AnimeCraze]

How about ones which literally replaces your entire party when summoned, like FFX Aeons? It would be wrong to refer to them as pets, no?

[Marahumm]

I think I'd feel weird calling my merc a pet...

[Ishtor]

this will make everything much more simple, this is not WOW, you do not have pets like WOW. In the world of Diablo, we summon, whether they stick or around or not they are a summoned creature. But never our pet. A pet is a companian that you keep with you, once any of your summon dies, you can sommon a new mongral, but it will never bee the same one that died, may it RIP. There NO PETS in Diablo, is that simple enough?

[Smash]

There's been some confusion I want to clear up. There is a difference between "Summoning" and "Pets" when it comes to RPGs. Summoning is calling any creature to fight for you, like the Witch Doctor's Toads or Bats. The Mongrels are also summoned, but they are Pets because they stick around. In Final Fantasy, certain casters can Summon powerful spirits like Ifrit or Bahamut. They do a powerful attack and then leave. If they don't stick around, they're not Pets. Similarly, the Toads are summoned, but they merely hop around and eventually pop. Not pets. Mongrels will follow you indefinitely and fight on their own. Pets. See the difference? So that means that saying the WD uses Summoning magic does not mean he is a Pet class.

No, you are wrong. It is just your interpretation, weird if you ask me.

Pet is pet, My cat is a pet. Calling 20 feet tall demon a pet is weird, but some people do it. Pet is your relation to someone. For Wizard his familiar is a pet, but when he summoning demon to help him fighting it is a summon and it doesn't matter how long it stay.

Summoning is summoning how far english gramma go.
You can summon magic sword that is a item or demon that is a creature.

I got impression that you never played D&D games like Baldurs Gate or NeverWinterNights, D&D is father and mother of rpg games (imo).

[Qwink]

So what you are saying is that the necromancer has a summoning skill tree which actually should be called a petting skill tree. That would be just WRONG for obvious reasons. :crazyeyes:

[sreda]

Uh oh, a semantics thread. I see where this is going.

[Risingred]

I don't like talking shop outside of the office, but I deal in semantics as a profession.

Since there is no real base for definition for "pet" or "summon" you have to look at things in context. The context, in this example, would be the world and culture of Diablo from a lore and gameplay perspective. There has not, in a single description or story, been an instance of the term "pet" used to describe or define anything within (or without) Santuary so it isn't "supported in the text" as we say.

May this be true in another context? Certainly. Just not in a diabolical context.

[WTVelocity]

Grammatically, thus "technically", "summon" means to call. So in a game, TECHNICALLY the difference between summons and pets is whether you call or tame them, respectively.

A pet therefor is anything that follows you around and you care for.
A summon is something you "conjure" or that just comes when you call.

Examples: Having a Snow Leopard on WoW is a pet you tame. So it's a pet.
A Druid's Wolf or Grizzly is a pet AND a summon, because you call them, and they are part of your party.
The Druid's Ravens are summons, because you call them, yet they are not technically part of your party, as they don't have their own health bars.

Please note with this though, that even the Ravens on Diablo 2 can be considered pets, because you still have them in your party list at the top.

The only example of a summon that is NOT a pet would be like the Final Fantasy 7 Summons that come and go.

Risengred is correct with what he said. If you want to use lingo, you can MAKE whatever term for it that you want:nod:

Yet, the beginning point of this thread seemed to be based on the point of grammatical technicalities from what I observed. :P

Glad to help out. Feel free to send any hate mails about how much you hate someone in America actually knowing proper English terms. Or how some of you people are in a bubble, and don't see WoW as being part of the "real world" and how grammatics in the real world don't fit in the game.:coffee:

Thanks ^_^

~WTV~

[WTVelocity]

Edit: Ahead of time, I know it's technically a grammatic error to start a sentence with the word "Or". Thanks :D

[GuardianHadriel]

good that this has been cleared up