Thoughts on WD image and reputation issues

[Ouroboros]

My personal opinion about the witchdoctor is that it is an interesting and bold choice for a new class. It remains to be seen what "unique" spells blizzard comes up for him, besides some of the recycled Necromancer stuff.

Now, there has been a lot of animosity towards the WD: grass skirt wearing leaf chewing jungle hobo etc etc. A part of that is explained, I feel, because of a lack of seriousness about the character. Starting with his appearance.

I feel the appearance of the WD with his leafy gear and hunched back stuff can be rectified with a change in his color scheme. I think that the darker side of real life witchdoctor elements should be incorporated into the character. There should be blood, sacrificial animals, possesions, rituals, and a change to a black and red theme (or any other serious color combination) from the current green and purple one. Those colors suit a court jester, not a black magic dabbling voodoo priest.

Secondly, the game reveals a pretty intimate backstory of the male barbarian. You know who he is, what he has seen, and where he is coming from. He has witnessed horrendous evil, faced it, and defeated it, only to have his homeland torn apart and destroyed. There is anger, and a thirst for revenge which is intoxicating. Excellent backstory - Very Individually oriented. We know why he fights.

The female wizard also has this aura. You know who she is: arrogant, abrasive, and headstrong. She knows who she is, and rebels against society. Her vanity and self-assurance drives her to seek out challenges to justify the confidence in her own abilities. Excellent backstory - Very individually oriented.

For the WD, there is a general backstory from an anthropological point of view which observes and analyzes witch doctor society as a whole. We know of the culture, and rituals. However, we don't know the REASON why the WD, specifically the ones we will play in the game have left their homeland, and have made their journey to fight evil. If these things were revealed, it would give a better sense of who the character is, and players will be able to bond with his identity, and he will retain more seriousness, and generte less jungle hobo animosity.

To conclude, I think, the WD definately has an image problem like Mad Mantis says in his sig. That can be rectified through a subtle change in the color scheme, and through the addition of a complelling backstory of the specific individuals we are going to play in the game.

[Ouroboros]

Some images to illustrate what I mean:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r80/Sookie62/MarieLaveau.jpg
http://friendsoffriendsneworleans.org/BARRONAR.JPG
A set of New Orleans voodoo images. Ignore the tophat, but notice how the purple/blue scheme for the man isn't an eyesore like the green/purple is.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NUbPhaVyuGs/RlfhmR-BpQI/AAAAAAAAAp0/fjxx3LpxQ3E/s400/Pirates-+4.jpg
Calypso's character's make-up and costume is a pretty good benchmark.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f69/amymfuni/apiece.jpg
A ritual example.

[Krugar]

It's something that brushed my mind too. But couldn't put my finger on it. Kudos on your post!

I think they went with a more folksy approach to the WD. You know, drawing inspiration more from Asian and North American shamanism than they did from African witchdoctor roots. But while I do like the character look -- and so I'm thorn between fully acepting the idea this character is lacking charisma -- I have to fully agree on two things: The hunch weakens his aura, and most definitely more lore please!

[Mad Mantis]

Although you are spot on with the background, but I don't expect people to drop resistance just because they change that. Most people dislike him for his looks, his lackluster skills and because he is seen as the replacement of the Necro. Although better lore would be good it is not the basis of resistance.

His looks could be modified. For some reason Blizz is really into the purple and greens. They like placing them everywhere. I think that they are poorly suited for this character exactly for the reasons you discussed. We don't get the idea that he is actually using some powerful and questionable magic. They make him goofy looking.

All hinges on his skills though. Blizz is being really tight lipped about that and it is starting to unnerve me. Do they really have an idea where they want to go with this charater or are they still guessing?

[AxlStrife]

Two words to describe the WD's looks: Mardi Gras! All he needs is some beads and a chick flashing her tits and it's spot-on.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with the notion that the WD is on the gallows right now. I was REALLY hoping something would come out of the Blizzcast, so that was a pretty big disappointment. I'm in no way jumping ship because I LOVE the WD concept, but it is definitely unnerving, as Mantis said.

I don't mind the "old and grizzled" look, but the Barb already has that so I don't see the point for it with the WD other than to show expertise. This goes against the concept of a level 1 character, as it does with the Barb. I don't want to end up having The Elderly Justice League and their Oriental sidekick as choices. Crazy is fine, but old and senile is a bit too much.

[Ouroboros]

It's something that brushed my mind too. But couldn't put my finger on it. Kudos on your post!

I think they went with a more folksy approach to the WD. You know, drawing inspiration more from Asian and North American shamanism than they did from African witchdoctor roots. But while I do like the character look -- and so I'm thorn between fully acepting the idea this character is lacking charisma -- I have to fully agree on two things: The hunch weakens his aura, and most definitely more lore please!

Really? I thought the Devs took more influence from African tribal influences than a Carribean/New Orleans look. Thats my take on it anyway. Which cultures did you mean when you said they drew inspiration from Asian shamanism .. i'm curious.


Although you are spot on with the background, but I don't expect people to drop resistance just because they change that. Most people dislike him for his looks, his lackluster skills and because he is seen as the replacement of the Necro. Although better lore would be good it is not the basis of resistance.



I totally agree, his lackluster skills, and the Necro backlash are the primary reasons for the resistance, no doubt. The lack of intriguing lore presents another area which could have worked for the WD's benefit, if it had been properly implemented. That will change with time I guess (I hope).

All hinges on his skills though. Blizz is being really tight lipped about that and it is starting to unnerve me. Do they really have an idea where they want to go with this charater or are they still guessing?

Yes, I was really expecting a nod towards the WD in the blizzcast, as it is the one character class on which the least amount of info has been released. I share your nervousness, there are a lot of things they can do right with this class, but a lot of ways they can cripple it as well. They should really reveal some new elements and gauge the community feedback.


I don't want to end up having The Elderly Justice League and their Oriental sidekick as choices. Crazy is fine, but old and senile is a bit too much

Haha, bring out the arthritis meds!

[Krugar]

Really? I thought the Devs took more influence from African tribal influences than a Carribean/New Orleans look. Thats my take on it anyway. Which cultures did you mean when you said they drew inspiration from Asian shamanism .. i'm curious.

Well, The Caribbean/New Orleans look as you put it is rooted on African witchdoctors (*) and was imported by African slaves. In contrast shamanism is of Asian influence (**) and also rooted in North America.

The look you see on our Witch Doctor often attributed to African influences is mostly a television/Hollywood byproduct. The use of masks and colorful and complex outfits is definitely shamanistic in nature and has real-life examples in Asia, Oceania and North America. Check the website below for some examples. Meanwhile African witchdoctors, magicians, shamans, et cetera are traditionally less dressed and prefer the use of charms and less forms of skin decoration.

---
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Voodoo and also for completeness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodun

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

[Ouroboros]

Thanks for the links krugar, good reading. Well, they have some good documented sources of culture they can draw inspiration from. Here's to hoping they find cohenrence in direction.

[Elmacro]

Well it does seem that the witch doctor has been made to be "fun", not exactly as hero like as the others. Even his skills show off that hes to be used to have a good time, ´cause i think that he´s got too many skills of the kind no one uses in hell difficulty and such: the wall of zombies (in d2 no one used walls, and if you were a nec people would shout at you if you did create some walls), the frogs (who are really like charged bolt, just worse cause in d3 charged bolt can at least stun enemies), the bat-inferno (who is graphically really cool but...no one used inferno in d2 that i can remember), or like those vodoo spirits (who used howl, or most of the necs curses?). Thus, if you look at him not as a serious hero, but as a char for casual players who just want some fun i think its better for him to be purple and green, I mean that if you want him to look more hero-like he must have skills to match, otherwise it would be incongruent.

[NioTumsSpik]

Well it does seem that the witch doctor has been made to be "fun", not exactly as hero like as the others. Even his skills show off that hes to be used to have a good time, ´cause i think that he´s got too many skills of the kind no one uses in hell difficulty and such: the wall of zombies (in d2 no one used walls, and if you were a nec people would shout at you if you did create some walls), the frogs (who are really like charged bolt, just worse cause in d3 charged bolt can at least stun enemies), the bat-inferno (who is graphically really cool but...no one used inferno in d2 that i can remember), or like those vodoo spirits (who used howl, or most of the necs curses?). Thus, if you look at him not as a serious hero, but as a char for casual players who just want some fun i think its better for him to be purple and green, I mean that if you want him to look more hero-like he must have skills to match, otherwise it would be incongruent.


D3 is NOT D2, i dont think they will make any skill that is not usefull the entire game.

[Ouroboros]

Well it does seem that the witch doctor has been made to be "fun", not exactly as hero like as the others. Even his skills show off that hes to be used to have a good time, ´cause i think that he´s got too many skills of the kind no one uses in hell difficulty and such: the wall of zombies (in d2 no one used walls, and if you were a nec people would shout at you if you did create some walls), the frogs (who are really like charged bolt, just worse cause in d3 charged bolt can at least stun enemies), the bat-inferno (who is graphically really cool but...no one used inferno in d2 that i can remember), or like those vodoo spirits (who used howl, or most of the necs curses?). Thus, if you look at him not as a serious hero, but as a char for casual players who just want some fun i think its better for him to be purple and green, I mean that if you want him to look more hero-like he must have skills to match, otherwise it would be incongruent.

Wow, i have to disagree. What you say could not have been done intentionally. Blizzard has stated that every character is a DPS class, and can solo the entire game, and hold their own in Hell difficulty. He could not have just been implemented into the game for casual players, and even then, every casual player I know would still prefer the ability to kill monstrs effectively and progress in the game. How you describe the WD through the framework of D2 is not how I see his skills at all. If almost every other active skill shown thus far fails at managing the games challenges, the character will be an epic failure. I just don't see that ever happening with Blizzard at the helm.

[Krugar]

Sorry folks, have to interrupt for a quick question. Somehow the meaning of DSP escapes me. See it everywhere but have no idea what it means. Help me out :)

[Ouroboros]

DPS = Damage per Second:thumbup:

[Farmrush]

Sorry folks, have to interrupt for a quick question. Somehow the meaning of DSP escapes me. See it everywhere but have no idea what it means. Help me out :)

DPS* means Damage Per Second and in this context refers to the characters ability to DEAL DAMAGE. Ie. Diablo has no healer, tank, buff classes unless you're trying out some wacky build.

[Krugar]

Okies. Gotchas. Thanks :)

[GoldenBird]

Well it does seem that the witch doctor has been made to be "fun", not exactly as hero like as the others. Even his skills show off that hes to be used to have a good time, ´cause i think that he´s got too many skills of the kind no one uses in hell difficulty and such: the wall of zombies (in d2 no one used walls, and if you were a nec people would shout at you if you did create some walls), the frogs (who are really like charged bolt, just worse cause in d3 charged bolt can at least stun enemies), the bat-inferno (who is graphically really cool but...no one used inferno in d2 that i can remember), or like those vodoo spirits (who used howl, or most of the necs curses?). Thus, if you look at him not as a serious hero, but as a char for casual players who just want some fun i think its better for him to be purple and green, I mean that if you want him to look more hero-like he must have skills to match, otherwise it would be incongruent.

The spells in D2 were never meant to be that way. And, curses were (are) definitely used on the nec, and I've heard inferno was somewhat before D2 got all beefed up.

Ouroboros, I think you really got down exactly what has many disappointed about the WD. I'm happy you pinpointed it, because although I am happy with the idea of the WD, I definitely have to say it wasn't such a serious seeming class.

[Elmacro]

woa! cool down haha; i know that blizzard wouldnt make a char unable to solo hell, but hell wont be how it was in d2, it will be more evened out in difficulty they said, and with all the passives etc im sure that even the frogs will be able to kik ***. Its just that in my opinion his skills resemble too much those ones that didnt see much play in dia.
Also i didnt say that necs dont use curses, nec is my fav char and i have used curses (mainly the first curse which is great and the lower resist one), i said that MOSt curses didnt see play.
Its just that seeing how chars like the baba and the soso have nearly all the skills buffing their power in some way, the wd seems to have many active spells and little enough space left for passives (which will be the key to power in d3 i think). And the actives he has seem to be under-used ones of d2.

[Doctor Salvador]

Its just that seeing how chars like the baba and the soso have nearly all the skills buffing their power in some way, the wd seems to have many active spells and little enough space left for passives (which will be the key to power in d3 i think). And the actives he has seem to be under-used ones of d2.

The Witch Doctor currently has only 11 known skills. There is a lot of room left for more passives and actives.

[Xoltotun]

To the OP:

There's no point complaining about the coloration of his gear when we don't even know what the end-game uniques, sets, etc, are going to look like. I'm willing to bet the WD is going to have some very diverse and interesting looking gear, especially in the facemask department. A fully decked out WD will probably look absolutely mind-blowing. Bottom line, don't base too many opinions on the footage and screenshots we've seen so far.

On the other hand, I do agree with you about the WD being hunched over. It's a bit unnatural. I realize they're trying to create a more creepy/sinister appearance like the undead and trolls in WoW (which were also hunched), but in the long run most people probably want to play characters that look like they're ready to take on the world by standing tall and alert. The female WD is not hunched over, so I'll probably end up playing her.

Too me, the class still seems awesome overall, and I still don't understand what all the griping is about.